2204h as sub?

[allen mueller]

I got a chance to pick up a two 2204h's. I would like to use them as a subs. Is this possible. With just some quick messing around on winisd it doesn't look possible, but i'm looking for a second opinion. Jbl specs say they go down to 35hz. I run a hi pass at 30hz so based on that it seems like I could use them in my setup, but the numbers i'm getting form winisd don't show them usable as subs. Could this be done or should i look for something else?


Allen

[allen mueller]

That’s what I thought. I figured I would check first incase my calculations were wrong. In regards to the 121h it was hard to find much info on them. Other than you liked them in a 2 cubic foot sealed box. I think the 121h would work well from what a read. I want to add 2 subs to my compliment my 4311b's. What is the sound of the 121h like?



Allen

[edgewound]

I got a chance to pick up a two 2204h's. I would like to use them as a subs. Is this possible. With just some quick messing around on winisd it doesn't look possible, but i'm looking for a second opinion. Jbl specs say they go down to 35hz. I run a hi pass at 30hz so based on that it seems like I could use them in my setup, but the numbers i'm getting form winisd don't show them usable as subs. Could this be done or should i look for something else?


Allen

You can use them as subs....Build two subs with one 2204H and a 12" passive radiator. The 2204 takes 400watts pink noise. Use something like a Seas Passive radiator and you can mass tune the bottom end. Should be killer in a 1" MDF box.

[jim3860]

I got a chance to pick up a two 2204h's. I would like to use them as a subs. Is this possible. With just some quick messing around on winisd it doesn't look possible, but i'm looking for a second opinion. Jbl specs say they go down to 35hz. I run a hi pass at 30hz so based on that it seems like I could use them in my setup, but the numbers i'm getting form winisd don't show them usable as subs. Could this be done or should i look for something else?


Allen If your looking for a sub driver i have a 2242h for sale. that should do the trick nicely:applaud: just send me a pm if intrested. REGARDS JIM P.S it is either newly reconed or new in box. Not sure which looks brand new to me.

[johnaec]

They make fantastic subwoofers!.You're being facetious, I hope! Fs of 45hz is hardly there...

John

[Zilch]

Hee, hee.

Giskard changed his mind, apparently.

[Or he's gone BIPOLAR on this one.... :p ]

I can only get them to sim as subs in bandpass boxes, with quite nasty group delays....

[spkrman57]

What our resident expert is saying here, is that when he tells you it is not the best option and folks continue supporting it anyways, I'm thinking "G" gets a little miffed to put it lightly.

And since this new "DIY" forum has come around, some of the ideas presented here are sometimes going to be less than ideal compared to the JBL designs which have hours of engineering and coutless $$$ spent on them.

How likely is it that us rookies are going to be more correct than those with the technical skills and time spent as full time work. So if "G" is saying if you want to know, look at what JBL did, anything else is likely to be a "less than ideal" scenario most of the time.

I don't know much about 2204's, but for sub duty, why not go with tried and proven drivers: ie: 2245/2242/sub1500/LE14/etc...

Hope my mouth did not overload my brain on this one, apologies in advance if I did!:p

Ron



Um, no. A moderator censored my posts. Two were deleted. You wouldn't have liked my response to edgewound's post...

This is the DIY forum so do whatever you want. Post whatever you want. I'm not allowed to rip you a new one here.

Make subs with anything you want. Ignore the fact that transducers are application oriented. Treat them all like unidrivers.

[spkrman57]

Me miffed? I don't get miffed do I? Are you suggesting I have a wee bit of a temper? :rotfl:

Anyway, I don't want to stiffle any creativity. Carry on.

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[Robh3606]

I think the real issue is you should do a little homework. A quick look at the T/S and FS will tell you right away. You can also quickly model the driver in a box program as well. If your are completely new to this you should just come right out and say so. At least then the people responding have a better idea what kind of reply to post and cut you a little slack as well.

Rob :)

[allen mueller]

Ok, I’m not going to get them. Like i said in my first post I had ran them in winisd and didn't think it was possible. I just wanted to make sure I didn't overlook something since so many people know so much on this board. Any way it looks like what I will go with is some 121a baskets with 124h's cones that I can get. Jbl recommends 2 ft^3 tuned to 28hz. I found a post where someone has had good results with 2.8 ft^3 tuned to 30hz. Some plots on winisd show that the 2.8 ft^3 looks like it has better output near the tuning frequency. The red line in the plot is the JBL recommended box, and the green is the 2.8 cubic foot box. Any opinions? It looks like this will be a better option. Thanks.

[Zilch]

No problem. Deleted.

Though the particulars warrant some exposition as to why the green would be a preferred alignment with this driver....

[Zilch]

Thank you for the explanation, Giskard.

Just when I get to thinking I have a handle on this, an exception shows up. :p

Looks like a driver I'd like to experiment with, yes.... :thmbsup:

[Zilch]

In the late 80's JBL sent me a good portion of their blown 121H baskets so I could build more 124H's with them.Now, THAT's truly funny!

[Only person that could make them WORK, apparently.... :p ]

[allen mueller]

Thanks for all the input. Giskard your experience with this driver has been very valuable to me. I think this will work well in my setup. I do run a hi pass at 30 Hz cause I use my record player allot, also I don't push my listening levels. I am excited about getting this project under way. Thanks again.



Allen

[Guido]

Guido should be able to tell you first hand.

Yep! I built a twin 2203 KILLER Sub with the help from Giskard. For the house opening party I used this sub with my 4425 clones and the sound was out of this world.
I drive the sub with a detonation 300W RMS plate amp. In my room I do not need any bass EQ!! If I would use Bass EQ I would start moving walls :coolness:
Usually I use this sub with ma 4313B clones. DECENT :D

Look here
http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3826&highlight=2203

and here

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8619&highlight=years+eve

[allen mueller]

Good link. I like the idea of the dual box for two reasons. One the increased spl you get. Two it would be easier to find good placement for one sub vs. trying to place 2 subs in the room and get good results. Guido from reading it looks like you chose to go with 3.2 ft^3 tuned to 30Hz. For that tuning winisd gives me a duct length of 4.29in with a diameter of 3in. Does this seem about right compared to the box you built for your subs? Also i have an ashly parametric so i could add some boost if needed in my room. Any thing I’m missing?





Allen

[edgewound]

Um, no. A moderator censored my posts. Two were deleted. You wouldn't have liked my response to edgewound's post...

This is the DIY forum so do whatever you want. Post whatever you want. I'm not allowed to rip you a new one here.

Make subs with anything you want. Ignore the fact that transducers are application oriented. Treat them all like uni-drivers.

Well I guess it's a good thing I didn't get to see Giskard's response to my post about 2204's as subs...I was enjoying the fellowship of watching the Super Bowl with family....geez what a waste of time to spend a day like that, considering some of the members' disdain for football...but some people see it as a special occasion to spend time together....which is a good thing;) . I'd be interested in seeing his response, actually....maybe I could use it as another learning experience from the Master. I do appreciate the acknowledgement of applying creativity to reach a possible solution....especially considering the temperament of the 121H, let alone the expense of reconing 2 drivers. I guess using passive radiators around here has become illegal. Sorry if I was way wrong....or even a little. I just happen to think the 2204 is a very ballsy, usable unidriver.

[edgewound]

It was deleted because it served no purpose in answering the question at hand coupled with the fact that I don't want to get into it with you. I'll be real forthwith here. I'm stunned you would actually recommend the 2204H as a subwoofer. That said, feel free to do as you wish to it.

Well that's fine....but I didn't recommend 2204's as subs. He asked if they could be used as subs, and I offered a solution...a solution that JBL has used in some designs to extend bottom end, and minimize woofer unloading . That's what DIY is for. My "temperament" comment was aimed at the aspect of total intolerence for a different point of view, and that's probably why your reply's were removed from mine. I still respect your knowledge and passion, though.;)

[Zilch]

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/icons/icon3.gif What am I'm doing here? Helping those of us willing to learn, is what.... :thmbsup:

[edgewound]

I'd be interested in seeing his response, actually....maybe I could use it as another learning experience from the Master.

:)

[Guido]

Guido from reading it looks like you chose to go with 3.2 ft^3 tuned to 30Hz. For that tuning winisd gives me a duct length of 4.29in with a diameter of 3in. Does this seem about right compared to the box you built for your subs? Allen

Yes, volume and tuning is right. I have 100mm dia and 200mm duct. 3 inch dia is too small. These beasts move air :D

You won't need any EQ. The bass is incredible. I didn't manage to smack the mass rings yet though.

This is a fun project.