RTA? Is this what I want?

[Boss96]

Behringer DEQ2496 Ultra Curve Pro
Behringer ECM8000 Measurement Microphone
I would like to make some EQ adjustments for my listening position and this looks like what I would want.
There are some midrange peaks I would like to tame plus I would like to see how far off my system response is overall. I realize that EQ'ing for flat generally does not sound good to most people but I would at least like to get as close as possible and go from there.
Any suggestions?
Bob

[Zilch]

Yup. In its "AutoEQ" you can have it make whatever curve you like. There's also a "Room correction" option that tilts the curve 1 dB/octave for a better sounding result if flat is too dry.

Under $300 ($289 on sale) at Guitar Center, tell 'em you want the mic, cable, and a stand and mini-boom with it for free. Worked for me. Most all my RTA posts here are pics of the UltraCurve display.

According to the pros, the digital EQ is not the best available, but it doesn't sound at all bad to me. Several other forum members use it in their systems. I know of at least 6 who do from reading here.

Next step up is $500 DBX.

[Mr. Widget]

I have never personally used this Behringer unit but many have found it less than satisfactory from an audio standpoint. I expect the RTA function is fine, but if you use it in your signal path you may be less than pleased.

It is very inexpensive for what it does and there are many others who seem to be happy with it, but if you are critical about your sound quality, you may find it isn't quite the ticket.

As far as Auto-EQ is concerned, I have tried that type of feature on other brands and it is never satisfactory. Sure it will quickly give you a flat looking response, but it won't give you the best sounding response.


Widget

[Boss96]

Thanks for the reply, Zilch. Can you explain a little bit to me on how it operates? You just select "auto EQ" and it plays pink noise and goes from there? How does it sound after that?
Interesting stuff..
Bob

[Boss96]

Widget, what is it about the unit that people don't like as far as having it in the signal path? Does it add noise or does the EQ section cause phase distortions?

Bob

[Zilch]

Thanks for the reply, Zilch. Can you explain a little bit to me on how it operates? You just select "auto EQ" and it plays pink noise and goes from there? How does it sound after that?
Interesting stuff..
BobYup. The manual is available on the Behringer website, I believe. It's got other neat features, as well. I use the parametic EQ for my sub bump filter, and the feedback destroyer to roll off below 25 Hz for subsonic protection.

You can hear it change the EQ as it automatically does it playing pink noise. Very cool.

I usually do two AutoEQ's now, one with the "tilt" and one flat, and save them both in memory. Then I can compare the sound, and swap in whichever pleases me that day.

You can store 64 different curves, I think it is.... :barf:

[Mr. Widget]

Widget, what is it about the unit that people don't like as far as having it in the signal path? ....

It has two strikes against it. First, being a very economical unit the analog portion (every line level device is essentially another pre-amp line stage) is simply not hi-fi. It sounds hard. It will make the music sound a bit midrangy but it isn't a frequency issue... the curve may be genuinely flat, but it will sound like there are midrange peaks... this is common with lots of opamp based line sections.

Second since it is a digital device, the A to D and D to A conversions in even the finest devices are problematic. This isn't a bad device, but it isn't the finest by far.


I know people who have had success replacing the Digital conversion sections and the analog sections, but at that point... why not just buy a better unit.


Widget

[Don Mascali]

I have been using one of these for years and it may sound Heritical to some but I love it. For the Audio hobbiest the RTA alone is worth the price.

The old Gold Line 10 band hand held RTA sold for $600 and the 28 band rack mount was something astronomical. This has a 61 band FFT RTA that is really nice. The Behringer is a ripped off design made by Chinese prison labor, but that is typical for most modern electronics. The DACs are not that bad but it certainly is Low Fi compared to Mac or other Hi End vintage stuff..

Would I take it on the road? No way, does it give me a huge bang for the buck? Yes!... For the casual hobbiest it is a good piece of gear. My desires and my budget cannot be reconciled, I have to settle for "Cheap Charlie" to be in the game.

[Mr. Widget]

I have been using one of these for years and it may sound Heritical to some but I love it. For the Audio hobbiest the RTA alone is worth the price.

... and that is why it has been such a successful unit. I only want to point out that it like a Camero is a great bang for the buck, just don't expect Ferrari or even Corvette.


Widget

[Boss96]

Well, one thing I notice is it uses XLR connectors for the inputs, my power amp has those so connecting it to that is no problem, but the inputs would need to be converted to RCA's. Would that cause any kind of problems as far as noise, etc, goes?
I also see some people have had reliability problems with them, it only has a 1 yr warranty and so on.
The price is pretty tempting though..
Any other product I might want to consider then?
Bob

[Zilch]

I run mine using a $79 Sony CD player, no problem. Unbalanced (RCA) to balanced (XLR) pro interconnect cables are also available at Guitar Center to make the connection. Maybe you can talk them into giving you those, too. :p

[Mr. Widget]

I run mine using a $79 Sony CD player...That does put it in proper perspective.:uhmmmm:




Widget

[Boss96]

That does put it in proper perspective.:uhmmmm:




Widget

That was funny:applaud:
No offense, Zilch:)
Bob

[Zilch]

My other system uses a Sony car radio with BUILT-IN CD player as system controller.

There's no dearth of quality gear here.

Both systems DO play CDR's without difficulty, however.

CERTAIN places with fancy SACD players you gotta BYO if you wanna do that. :p

Heh.

[Robh3606]

What sources are you using??? If you use vinyl' SACD or DVDA or PCM 24/96 you may not want to run these through a AD/DA conversion. If you can run your digital into it directly, I think you can with an add on board, that is something you might want to consider if it gives you that option. That way you are not going through succesive AD/DA in addition to the added analog stages. I use a Behringer for RTA duty and it was worth it for that alone. I use analog EQ's because I have SACD and Vinly as sources in addition to CD. Get one with 14 or 30 day money back deal and give it a try.

Rob:)

[Zilch]

UltraCurve Pro has S/PDIF optical and AES/EBU (XLR) digital inputs, yes.

44.1, 48, 88.2, 96 kHz.

[Infredible]

My other system uses a Sony car radio with BUILT-IN CD player as system controller.

There's no dearth of quality gear here.

Both systems DO play CDR's without difficulty, however.

CERTAIN places with fancy SACD players you gotta BYO if you wanna do that. :p

Heh.

Hehe :applaud:

I do use the 2496 and I'm very pleased with it. I might not be the best but in my room it makes my system sound so much better. Plus with the ability to save 100 different curves it gives you a lot of latitude.

Fred.

[Zilch]

Behringer UltraCurve Pro users are outting themselves left and right here! :D

C'mon, folks, step up to the plate.

There'll be plenty enough ridicule to go around.... :p

[johnaec]

DBX Driverack 260 here - I usually control it by laptop, (serial connection). XLR/RCA adapters seem to work fine for home audio use...

John

[Don Mascali]

The input and output opamps automatically convert from/to balanced/unbalanced operation so the connections are OK if the cable type and gender are correct.

There are some signal level differences between Pro and Consumer gear, but in practice these seem minor to me. Just becarefull when you set the gains.

More info than you really want to know here:

http://www.rane.com/library.html

Good luck with what ever you decide,

Don M

[Earl K]

- Your thread-header gives priority ( at least subconciously in your query ) to the RTA function vs the EQ .

- So, spend the same amount of money ( as the DEQ costs ) but put it into a good soundcard / some decent RTA software ( like TrueRTA ) and a half-decent measurement mic . I feel you'll be ahead with this approach because ;

(1) You'll have to concentrate on measuring the performance of the system in question . ( With only one new toy to play with, you are very likely to maximize it's efficacy .

(2) You won't be able to fix any performance anomolies that you might find by simplying inserting an EQ into the circuit . This will force you to find alternatve solutions through ;

(i) Passive EQ fixes ,. These filters being "cut-only" have lots of sonic advantages over inserting a cheaper digital device .

(ii) Room Treatments , you may be forced to think about treating your room with bass traps etc. to fix funny bass response modes, &/or sound absorbing panels/or wall hangings to tame midrange bounce .


:) ( yes I own lots of Behringer stuff, but I stand by my advice ) :o:

[kevf]

Ok. I admit it. I have one and I LIKE it. There...I feel better now.

I run directly from my PC (where I have my 500 cds stored) into the toslink of the DEQ and use the DEQ's DAC. I also made my own RCA/XLR cables to my preamp. Its pretty easy - just short two pins. See here: http://www.mediacollege.com/audio/connection/xlr-rca-1.html

I would not run analog into it. Although I've never tried it, I don't think the AD/DA/AD is a good idea, as others have already said. I run my turntable directly into my preamp.

I think the unit sounds fine. No noise whatsoever. But then, I don't have golden ears, nor have I ever owned a $1000 CD player. So perhaps keep that in perspective. However, I do have a decent vinyl rig (VPI MkIII).

Anyway, the RTA function is great and worth the price of admission - me think. I like to switch speakers occasionally (have 4333s and 4425s) and the stored memory of the DEQ is great for that also. I'd say it's a good buy.

[Boss96]

- Your thread-header gives priority ( at least subconciously in your query ) to the RTA function vs the EQ .

- So, spend the same amount of money ( as the DEQ costs ) but put it into a good soundcard / some decent RTA software ( like TrueRTA ) and a half-decent measurement mic . I feel you'll be ahead with this approach because ;

(1) You'll have to concentrate on measuring the performance of the system in question . ( With only one new toy to play with, you are very likely to maximize it's efficacy .

(2) You won't be able to fix any performance anomolies that you might find by simplying inserting an EQ into the circuit . This will force you to find alternatve solutions through ;

(i) Passive EQ fixes ,. These filters being "cut-only" have lots of sonic advantages over inserting a cheaper digital device .

(ii) Room Treatments , you may be forced to think about treating your room with bass traps etc. to fix funny bass response modes, &/or sound absorbing panels/or wall hangings to tame midrange bounce .


:) ( yes I own lots of Behringer stuff, but I stand by my advice ) :o:



Yes, that is indeed what I was most interested in, using an RTA to "see" what is going on in my room. I saw the software driven stuff but I did not see any specific microphone recommendation to work with it, but I probably did not look hard enough. I already have an EQ in the system right now and the problem I have seems to be located between the 4 and 8k range but the EQ has nothing in between to really target the offending area. I have thought about just getting a parametric EQ also or in the Behringer's case, it has 31 bands so that would work too.
But.....
I tried putting the speakers on stands with a slight backward tilt to them tonight and it made a very noticable difference. I may just leave it at that after more listening.
BTW, the room treatments thing..this is my living room and putting foam pads on the walls and big tubular bass traps in the corners just won't cut it with the wife, or me for that matter:) . Maybe someday I can add on a room dedicated to audio but for now I seem to be making headway on having at least one sweet spot in the room to enjoy the sound. I do wish there were some way to get the bass response the same throughout the room though, but that seems to be a matter of physics and can't be worked around:(
Bob

["Duke" Spinner]

i use a mike for a Rane RTA, my laptop .....

and bought a used Yamaha YDG2030 for $250

it's light years ahead of "Behringer"

ever see one in a Pro Rack

...........with all it's Knobs ..??? cheapy, Cheapy

[Zilch]

Behringer UltraCurve Pro has 10 stereo parametric EQ's in ADDITION to the 31-band graphic. :p