HORNS VS TWEETER

[amadeo]

i have noticed that 99% of people in this forum prefer horns to tweeter speakrs

i personaly dont know whats so special with horns...i guess to each his own ....my freind has a SVA 1800 fronts SVA 1600 rears , SVA center ...the sound for movies is out of this world but for music my TIK's knock them out with a single blow....

first , detail ....well for one the SVA horns have non or very minimul compared to the articulaty of my TIK's...

Sound stage .... ok the horns give a wide playful image of the soundstage witch can easily be imitated by my yamaha dsp processor all i have to push is the hall or concert button in my remote and voila ....there is nothing "realistic" about the sound in the horns i am not saying its bad i am just saying its different in a bad way:dont-know

my friend was like you it took a while and an audition of my speakers to compare the sounds between the SVA and my TIK i finaly managed to pull him to the dark side ...and he still for some reason totaly loves his 5 year SVA system ...i gues once you go horns you dont go back...but he said he will move the SVA to another room and buy tiks for his entertainment room (he has more money than me ) :cheers:

so if your into movies or music the tweeter array (search you feelings ) is the best way to go

[Titanium Dome]

Oh man, you're in trouble now. :duck:

I hope you've got your flame suit on. :flamer:

You better think fast before you say anything else. :thnkfast:

You're in for a fight. :argue:

Okay, it won't be that bad, but a vintage JBL fan loves the horns. LOVES 'em. (We need a a smilie for :luvhrns: and one for :tirulz:.)

I've got a pair of SVA1800s, and I still play some of my loudest rock through them, just like the arena and stadium musicians did when they toured: Deep Purple, The Who, Def Leppard, U2, James Gang, Midnight Oil, etc. LOVE them horns!

However, the Ti EOS WaveGuide tweeters and Ti pistonic drive inverted domes are better IMO, much better. But if you live in a barn, you'll want them horns blastin' away. :rotfl:

Thanks for starting a war. :D :duel:

[clmrt]

I came from NHT SuperOnes and Infinity Alpha's, into Seville's with the Altec 3000 horn tweeter.


I don't know what physics are at work here, but at low levels (70db or less) the music just seems to flow out of the speaker, suspended like electric fog in the air. Weightless.

With the others, there had to be some juice behind them to get the sound into the room. Even then, there was a sense of falsehood about what I heard. I kept changing speakers. Maybe I like it brighter and hotter vs. damp? and warm.

I know about sensitivity, but I'm not talking about that - it's about how the sound is represented at the same levels. Like incandescent vs. HID. Ginsu vs. Samurai sword.

Bottom line, all designs are a means to an end - move air to make sound. The Altecs have me thinking about other things now - tube amps, preamps...other things.:blink:

[Zilch]

Tweeters? Whatever FOR?

[We don't need no steenkin' TWEETERS!]
:)

[louped garouv]

altough I would gladly audition some TiKs....


I Love the audio from my Altec 19s -- 802G/811B HF/Horn Combo......
just a certain sweetness to them....

although I do want to try horns dampened with the latex/sand technique -- methinks that eventually I am going to build a slightly larger Altec M19 clone box and use the 511 horns I have......

[amadeo]

Oh man, you're in trouble now. :duck:You better think fast before you say anything else. :thnkfast:

You're in for a fight. :argue:

Okay, it won't be that bad, but a vintage JBL fan loves the horns. LOVES 'em. (We need a a smilie for :luvhrns: and one for :tirulz:.)

However, the Ti EOS WaveGuide tweeters and Ti pistonic drive inverted domes are better IMO, much better. But if you live in a barn, you'll want them horns blastin' away. :rotfl:

Thanks for starting a war. :D :duel:


wowow didnot meen to offend any one ....you guys just speaking my mind and anyway horns /tubes ......are so old fashion ....you are a dying religeon..guys we live in 2005....how many of us live in barns ...farms ....most of us live in major cities if not at least in the suburbs...we dont need ....all that "cosmetic" sound......you know i hit a nerve because you see the truth vintage is out ..you guys we only live once so lets live a little ....lets try somthing new ...dont just say no ...try it than make your decision ...i am sure that most of you are into music more than movies so lets be honest....horns are so old fashion ..... most expensive loud speakers
are with tweeters some with more than a dozen tweeters on one speaker
horns:slink:....

non of these come close to a lovely jbl speakers just whant to show you that horns are wrthless
http://www.avguide.com/product/Speakers/Main_Speakers/Burmester/B-97/625.jsp (http://www.avguide.com/product/Speakersmain)

http://www.avguide.com/product/speakers/Main_Speakers/Dali_/Megaline/2815.jsp

http://www.avguide.com/product/speakers/Main_Speakers/Dynaudio/Temptation/1798.jsp

this next one is when you know that horns are pathetic

http://www.avguide.com/product/speakers/Main_Speakrs/Genesis/G1.1/2915.jsp

this list could go on....

any way you get my meaning tell me now are you still a horn lover

[louped garouv]

......are so old fashion ....you are a dying religeon..guys we live in 2005.......we dont need ....all that "cosmetic" sound......you know i hit a nerve because you see the truth vintage is out ..you guys we only live once so lets live a little ....lets try somthing new ...dont just say no ...try it than make your decision ...i am sure that most of you are into music more than movies so lets be honest....horns are so old fashion ..... most expensive loud speakers
are with tweeters some with more than a dozen
horns:slink:....

http://www.avguide.com/product/Speakers/main_


I also use a UREI 1620 for my PreAmp.... just call me old fashioned

BTW -- I did try out numerious preamp/mixers from RANE, Vestax, Elcer, Pioneer, Dennon, Redsound, among others -- everything from vintage to brand new digital units -- I like the tone of the older, high end gear........

[Zilch]

any way you get my meaning tell me now are you still a horn loverI trust you have a clean towel nearby?

We don't kiss our Vaders.... :p

[Not to worry. Puberty will pass....]

[amadeo]

I trust you have a clean towel nearby?

We don't kiss our Vaders.... :p

[Not to worry. Puberty will pass....]

hahahahha who are you kidding i know all of you kiss your speakers ....if you dont you should ....they love it ...

any way my TIK's (vaders) are like a young paris hilton

i am afraid with what or whom you might compare your HORNS too....(yikes scary thought)

[JBLnsince1959]

wowow didnot meen to offend any one ....you guys just speaking my mind

we're just joking and having fun :D .... or at least I think we are :blink:

by the way, now that you've trashed horns on this site you have to pay a duty of $20. :rotfl:

and yes, I'm a horn lover, I admit it, I've gone to therapy for years trying to undo this, but to not avail. I'm hooked.... but then again I've lost 60% of hearing in my right ear and can't hear out the left ear. ;)

[Zilch]

any way my TIK's (vaders) are like a young paris hilton
Yeah, well, inane drivel is easily recognized here.

[You'll need more than one towel, looks like....]

[amadeo]

[QUOTE=JBLnsince1959]we're just joking and having fun :D .... or at least I think we are :blink:


of course we are :D.......i love all jbl speakers horns or not they are in my vains i could not think of my life without jbl speakers in them from the xti 80 (my previus model) to my vaders and beyond...dont know what jbl future has instore for us...but i hope MR.dan Ashcraft doesnt visit this forum ...i am afraid he would be influenced by all the horn lovers and might make the whole jbl future with horns....:blink:

[JBLnsince1959]

any way my TIK's (vaders) are like a young paris hilton



that's nothing, my 4430's look like Dolly Parton :bouncy:

[amadeo]

that's nothing, my 4430's look like Dolly Parton :bouncy:

what big boobs:hmm:....do you kiss them

[Titanium Dome]

Yeah, well, drivel is easily recognized here.

[You'll need more than one towel, looks like....]

I don't kiss my speakers, but I have admitted smelling and gently stroking the PT800s, and also to shoving my arm deep into the port of L300s and an SVA1800 a couple of times. (Do a search if you need to know.)

And now I'll admit I also took a Bi-Radial horn, put my lips around its orifice, and blew it when I was replacing the soft dome tweeter.

[Titanium Dome]

that's nothing, my 4430's look like Dolly Parton :bouncy:


Front or back? :rotfl:

[JBLnsince1959]

I don't kiss my speakers, but I have admitted smelling and gently stroking the PT800s, and also to shoving my arm deep into the port of L300s and an SVA1800 a couple of times. (Do a search if you need to know.)

And now I'll admit I also took a Bi-Radial horn, put my lips around its orifice, and blew it when I was replacing the soft dome tweeter.

Dome...this a family site for God's sakes :D :D

[amadeo]

I don't kiss my speakers, but I have admitted smelling and gently stroking the PT800s, and also to shoving my arm deep into the port of L300s and an SVA1800 a couple of times. (Do a search if you need to know.)

And now I'll admit I also took a Bi-Radial horn, put my lips around its orifice, and blew it when I was replacing the soft dome tweeter.

this is becoming x rated real fast ....:moon:.......chidren under 18 most hit the little x button on the upper right corner of the screen and forget you saw any of this ....bees and the birds ...thats how you were made..the bees and the birds

[JBLnsince1959]

Front or back? :rotfl:


:rotfl:

Hopefully, I don't have to teach about this... Is this why your marriage didn't work out?

[JBLnsince1959]

what big boobs:hmm:....do you kiss them

No, but when I dust them off, I do it very gently, very gently :D

[DMMD]

any way my TIK's (vaders) are like a young paris hilton

:blink: Hmmm? ...a market-created, young, plastic, talentless, slut with no hope of ever being anything beyond the spoiled quasi-legacy leftover from a by-gone era where hard work and real talent actually mattered?

Must be a real sloppy speaker then?

[JBLnsince1959]

:blink:
Must be a real sloppy speaker then?

Only after he's kissed them too many times. :applaud: :applaud:

Oh, God, i'm laughting so hard fro :rotfl: m this thread I can't type worth a sh*t

[Titanium Dome]

:rotfl:

Hopefully, I don't have to teach about this... Is this why your marriage didn't work out?

In a way, yes, but we're talking about speakers, right? You guys should know better than to get me all worked up. :banana:

[DMMD]

:banana:

Dome, put the BANANA AWAY! NOW!

I see that by keeping this thread so far off-topic... we will be able to speed along the inevitable moral decay of an otherwise very legitimate site here...:D

[spkrman57]

Tubes and horns or death!

(And when I go - my tubes and horns go with me!!!)


Ron

[Robh3606]

Banana's and 2344 Dolly Parton horns??? Inserting arms up to your elbow's?? I don't know??? You guys must have a speaker fetish.

" have noticed that 99% of people in this forum prefer horns to tweeter speakrs

i personaly dont know whats so special with horns...i guess to each his own ...."


Hey I like both:p


Rob:)

[amadeo]

:blink: Hmmm? ...a market-created, young, plastic, talentless, slut with no hope of ever being anything beyond the spoiled quasi-legacy leftover from a by-gone era where hard work and real talent actually mattered?

Must be a real sloppy speaker then?

you guys come back ......we are taking about horns with an s not a y

any way you can see what speaker mr. DAN Ashcraft chose to take a picture with .......

not the horns of k2 s9800...but the slender legs of paris hilton i mean the ti10k

[JBLnsince1959]

you guys come back ......we are taking about horns with an s not a y

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

my mistake.....

[amadeo]

you guys i forgot to tell you i received with my ti6k a certicate wich was very cool....its a JBL QUALITY CONTROL CERTIFICATE
it has the model name JBL TI6K
serial number 2749 (hand written )

then a check list
FREQUENCY RESPONCE x(hand checked with a pen)
IMPEDENCE x
RUB AND BUZZ x (for the life of me i dont know what that means)
SENSITIVITY x
POLARITY x

i will have it bordered and will hang it on the wall (like a fresh wilde boars head on te wall .....yes i am a proud owner of JBL TI6K

TITANIUM DOME (nice nick by the way very original) did you receive that with your new speakers

[JBLnsince1959]

any way you can see what speaker mr. DAN Ashcraft chose to take a picture with .......

not the horns of k2 s9800...but the slender legs of paris hilton i mean the ti10k

no accounting for taste.... :blink: . Ok, OK, enough of the jokes... Personally I do like like both, that's why I own both ( even before getting the PS). Each has it's own purpose and sound...enjoy

[Titanium Dome]

you guys come back ......we are taking about horns with an s not a y

any way you can see what speaker mr. DAN Ashcraft chose to take a picture with .......

not the horns of k2 s9800...but the slender legs of paris hilton i mean the ti10k

If you want a slap-fight about horns vs. direct vs. ribbons, go on over to AVS Forums and check around. They're always fighting and going off thread.

Just to help get back to center here, I think horns and direct radiators represent approaches to "ideal sound" (whatever that is) that both get elements of it, but neither one gets the whole thing.

For me, for now, I'm feeling the inverted Ti domes, but not the horns. (Oh come on, don't go there! :scold: )

[amadeo]

titanium dome go back to page 2 i was talking about the certificate ...did you or any other receive one with their product ...

hey this is not a debate ...you either like the tweeters or you dont ....all jbl speakers are equal in my eyes .....its those yuky KLIPSCH speakers:barf:
i hate..............KLPISCH copy cats i believe they stole ideas from jbl speakers with their horns and all

[Zilch]

you guys i forgot to tell you i received with my ti6k a certicate wich was very cool....its a JBL QUALITY CONTROL CERTIFICATE
My bathtub came with one of those, if I recall correctly.

WAIT, I'll get you a pic....

[Rub 'n' buzz ... rub 'n' buzz....]

'Course, there's SOME likelihood that a JBL PROFESSIONAL Q.C. certification actually means somethin'....

[Yer welcome to print and cut these out to tie 'em on yer Vaders, tho....]

Lessee. Ashcraft. Ain't he the Secretary of State or somethin'?

Hell, there's no ROOM for a decent horn in them things, otherwise they'd BE there, most likely. :)

Ti6k come up to his knees, maybe? Not possible, is all....

[Titanium Dome]

Can you take a picture of it?

[JBLnsince1959]

Can you take a picture of it?

yes, please...on this forum we MUST have pictures to verify..... :rotfl:

Rub and Buzz.... I think this about when you insert your arm up the tude and rub the magic "m" spot on the midrange. I think I posted about that some where.....

[JBLnsince1959]

Can you take a picture of it?

Oh, I forgot....please make sure your have written down todays date on a sheet of paper and include it with the certificate.

[Bernard Wolf]

well.. for some of us I imagine it has to do with sensitivity and dynamics.. I can and have run my S3100 with 4 watts of triode power without any loss of dynamics from my usual massive 30 watter... no head bangin' goin' on here boys :D Whats the sensitivity of those little pea shooters of yours there ?

Bernard

[JBLnsince1959]

Whats the sensitivity of those little pea shooters of yours there ?

Bernard

345,000db (one watt at one meter)...why? :D

[JBLnsince1959]

For me, for now, I'm feeling the inverted Ti domes, but not the horns.

really??? since when.....

[Bernard Wolf]

I was talkin to amadaus there.. he's the one with the pea shooters.. I always thought of you as being a real he-man ;)

[JBLnsince1959]

I was talkin to amadaus there.. he's the one with the pea shooters.. I always thought of you as being a real he-man ;)

you should see the sensitivity of the horns I have... makes the pea-shooters look pale :D

[Bernard Wolf]

you guys come back ......we are taking about horns with an s not a y

any way you can see what speaker mr. DAN Ashcraft chose to take a picture with .......

not the horns of k2 s9800...but the slender legs of paris hilton i mean the

ti10k

All kidding aside though Amadeo, I have not heard the ti10k so I can't really say.. have you heard the S3100 or Paragon or K2 ? Do you think there might be some reason that JBL use horns for all of the statement speakers?

Bernard

[JBLnsince1959]

I was talkin to amadaus there.. he's the one with the pea shooters.. ;)

I know ( sorry if I broke in), I'm in one of those rare moods today joking about everything( or trying to). After the heavy Sh*t in some of threads..I need a break.

This type of thread if taken too seriously could be almost as enlightening as the "Less Filling.....Taste Great" debate. :D

personally I view speakers like women... it's all good, just some's better than others...and the best one is the one in my bed tonight. :applaud:

[Bernard Wolf]

don't get your wires crossed..:o:

[louped garouv]

I'm in one of those rare moods today joking about everything( or trying to).

good times... I wish I had more of those moods......




personally I view speakers like women... it's all good, just some's better than others...and the best one is the one in my bed tonight. :applaud:

seems like sound reasoning to me....... :applaud:

[Titanium Dome]

personally I view speakers like women... it's all good, just some's better than others...and the best one is the one in my bed tonight. :applaud:


Now wait. Where is it? Which thread? Oh, here it is...


...my 4430's ( or horn based speakers in general) as masculine. :wtf:

Now I'm confused. Or do you mean "masculine in a feminine sort of way'? Are you saying horns are like this:

[JBLnsince1959]

Now wait. Where is it? Which thread? Oh, here it is...

:wtf:

Now I'm confused. Or do you mean "masculine in a feminine sort of way'? Are you saying horns are like this:

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Ok, you got me here... in self defense I'd have to say yes, that's what I meant. Really tho, the left-brain sometimes doesnt work with the right-brain when I use analogies. :banghead: :D

( oh well, there's goes my Arnold Schwarzenegger analogy)

I also take back about what I said about the best woman is the one in your bed ( if she's in it anyway), damn! I'll be afraid of her

[bbrown]

titanium dome go back to page 2 i was talking about the certificate ...did you or any other receive one with their product ...

hey this is not a debate ...you either like the tweeters or you dont ....all jbl speakers are equal in my eyes .....its those yuky KLIPSCH speakers:barf:
i hate..............KLPISCH copy cats i believe they stole ideas from jbl speakers with their horns and all

Both companies have been around a long time now. Let's see... Klipsch probably gets you MOST of the way there for less money. They just didn't/don't make all their own drivers.

(of course, there's all those Klipsch owners who upgrade with Altec and JBL mids and tweeters) :applaud:

If I could afford what I wanted, it would be MORE JBL!

Bruce

[pelly3s]

all i have to say to this confusing post is mmmmmmmmm horns. horns are the best things ever. What I would give for a pair of Westlakes or some George Augsperger design speakers

[RacerXtreme]

amadeo = a mad eo

Is that the opposite of a happy eo ?



Horns rule.:applaud:

Tweeters drool. :barf:

Go back to school

And learn how to spell

You fool.:blink:



Sorry.........had 2 vent.

I'll throw in the traditional "just kidding" .... to be nice. :D


:blah:

[JBLnsince1959]

Amadeo, Please ignore RacerXtreme's crude and crass remarks.
:(

personally, I find your spelling just fine :applaud: . also, it's been a joy having you on the forum and sharing your excitment and happiness about your new speakers. I know how you feel about your JBL's, it's a wonderful feeling isn't it. :yes:

By the way I have a serious question about the TiK's. did they take a few days to break in or open up like the Performance series do?

anyway, just want you to know that this thread has been one of the most fun I've had in a long time..thanks for starting it. :D and keep kissing those speakers, like plants, they need lots of love :banana:

take care

[RacerXtreme]

I apologize for any crude or crass remarks. I really was just kidding. Having one of those days................:banghead: :banghead: Sorry, I meant no harm.


:barf:

Just shoot me and get it over with................:(


:blink:

[Robh3606]

Okie Dokie

:die: :(

Rob:nanana:

[Titanium Dome]

:rotfl: :rotfl:

Ok, you got me here... in self defense I'd have to say yes, that's what I meant. Really tho, the left-brain sometimes doesnt work with the right-brain when I use analogies. :banghead: :D

( oh well, there's goes my Arnold Schwarzenegger analogy)

I also take back about what I said about the best woman is the one in your bed ( if she's in it anyway), damn! I'll be afraid of her


I don't remember the name of the movie, but John Ritter was in it. It had the glow in the dark condoms. Anyway, this bodybuilder chick dragged him off to an amorous encounter and afterward asked the trembling Ritter how he felt. His reply:"Like Mrs. Arnold Schwarzeneggar." :eek: :eek:

[Titanium Dome]

Each of the Performance Series boxes had a JBL packet in it that contained a lot of documentation, but I don't recall any certificate in there. However, if you can supply a picture, I can let you know if something like that was included.

[amadeo]

Each of the Performance Series boxes had a JBL packet in it that contained a lot of documentation, but I don't recall any certificate in there. However, if you can supply a picture, I can let you know if something like that was included.

i have thousnds of dollars worth of equipment in my room ...but i dont have a decent digital camera..........any way my mobile camera is below 1 mega so it would come out as SH#$...but i could scan it for u:rockon2:

it wount show but the paper has a real certificate feel to it ....any way

and you guys i know i cant spell ....that good it has been since 88-89 that i have been to the states ..(denver - colorado) ....loved the DENVER BRONCOS in our time it was JOHN ELWAY...oh my GOd talk about a legend

i read alot of books i especialy (another spelling mistake)....love anna rice ...vampire chronicles......ok at least u understand what i am saying.....i have seen threads and go :wtf:

the typing would be somthing like this ..........yesterday i tak shop ds nis spykr....i lisen very good sond from it...

etc i am not kidding


(when i try to upload it says your image is too large ....i tride too make it smaller with adobe ...but the file extension is psd and for some reason it wount send it :hate-pc:

now iam late for work ...ill figure it out ..

[Titanium Dome]

When we're talking JBLs, we all understand each other. You're doing a great job.

[louped garouv]

and you guys i know i cant spell ....that good it has been since 88-89 that i have been to the states ..(denver - colorado) ....loved the DENVER BRONCOS in our time it was JOHN ELWAY...oh my GOd talk about a legend

...love anna rice ...vampire chronicles......




how funny -- I grew up in new orleans -- little Ann Rice annecdote' for you --something that you can look into the real life drama of Ann Rice.....

you know how in the Vampire chronicles Lestat (spelling????) looks into a glass window or something, and doesn't see his reflection (I am not really sure of the story -- don't really care for her as a lady so dont read the books/watch the movies; but anyway).... That building was actually and old car dealership that was located on Magazine St in New Orleans...

The building was bought by a local business guy (Al Copeland, another very interesting New Orleans local personality -- owns restaurants, race boats, yada yada yada -- but his claim to fame is Popeye's Fried Chicken). He razed the building to build his new (at the time -- early/mid 90,s) flagship restaurant concept..... That crazy lady and dude had a PR battle in the local papers.... she would call his building the most tacky thing around (which it was..... imagine Donald Trump -- only switch the gold everywhere with tropical pastel colours.....)... and he would come back with a full page ad saying how psycho she was (is)......

and now I live in Denver.....

Too funny....

well anyway, carryon......


Oh... and by the way...
as a matter of New Orleans local folklore history....
Vampires never were really a part of the local fabric until after the success of Ann Rice and her novels.... The city's history is strewn with some dark and evil stuff (vodoo, wiccians, normal port city darkness, official malfeasance/corruption, etc, etc, etc), but vampires wasn't it....

Kinda like that song 'House of the Rising Sun' -- The carriage drivers in the Quarter mention a house on esplanade as being the house mentioned in that song -- but the story is malarchy, pure fiction spun by the local characters .......

[amadeo]

how funny -- I grew up in new orleans -- little Ann Rice annecdote' for you --something that you can look into the real life drama of Ann Rice.....
Oh... and by the way...
as a matter of New Orleans local folklore history....
Vampires never were really a part of the local fabric until after the success of Ann Rice and her novels.... The city's history is strewn with some dark and evil stuff (vodoo, wiccians, normal port city darkness, official malfeasance/corruption, etc, etc, etc), but vampires wasn't it....

but the story is malarchy, pure fiction spun by the local characters .......

your one lucky son of a one of my favorite cities............it has such an eeiriness to it .......even the name new orleans has a malancoly vibe ..did you ever meet the queen of darkness her goth majesty the author of all things creole ...i just love her .....her books the movies i have all her novels ...and then some.....interview with the vampire have a special eddition very rare ....and the movie one of my favorites.....the other queen of the damned was ok....but could have been 100 time better....wow you are so lucky ....

[JBLnsince1959]

(when i try to upload it says your image is too large ....i tride too make it smaller with adobe ...but the file extension is psd and for some reason it wount send it :hate-pc:..

Amadeo:

I had the same problem for a while until Dome taught me, here's what to do
1. Save the image as a jpg
2. Make sure the file size is no bigger than 120KB
3. Make the sure pixel width is no more than 640

that will make sure it's small enought to get on the site

[Maron Horonzakz]

Amadeo......The Klipschorn has been in steady production for 50 years. No other speaker has had sutch a following. The Khorn has evolved slowly warts and all. I can attest its not perfect but in all the tweeks that have been done to that unit And I quote Paul Klipsch "Its a tweekers dream" I too love JBL . My Klipschorns now have all JBL woofers horn mid drivers & JBL 2404 tweeters. Try playing Mahlers Symphony #6 through your Ti.s & compair to a horn system sutch as mine NO COMPAIRISON. Your tweeters would be laying out on the floor gasping their last breath. ITS CALLED DYNAMIC SLAM Direct radiators have a tough time reproduceing this importent neuance in music. As far as Paris Hilten? I like a little more meat on my women. She might be ok for a one knight stand but I dont think she could keep up with me for a second date. (No dynamic slam).;)

[JBLnsince1959]

I apologize for any crude or crass remarks. I really was just kidding. Having one of those days................:banghead: :banghead: Sorry, I meant no harm.

:blink:

yes, I have been there and done that myself WAY too many times.

Anyway, thanks for being a stand-up guy and having the balls to post an apology... shows class :applaud:

nuff said......

[57BELAIRE]

A few weeks ago I posted a thread asking "Has anyone heard these....Ti10K?"...zip, nada, nothing....just a few lighthearted quips, and although I've never auditioned a pair, they do look sorta neat in a Scan/Danish modern way...BUT...I doubt those woofers (10's?) will get any hearts fluttering on this forum. I mean can you imagine them down at your local cineplex, valiantly trying to recreate Lucas' Star Wars battle scenes or flanked beside KISS' backline during their farewell tour?

Horn loaded systems may not be as aesthetically pleasing to look at (save the Paragon) they give you that "slam factor" that once experienced is unlikely to be forgotten.

HORNS BABY!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

[amadeo]

finaly u guys ....ha....... i am invincible

i did it this is the freakin JBL certificate i scanned it at 200 pixels so it should look like sh!$ ....but as i said in real life the paper quality has a real certificate feel to it ....now if any one can explain the rub and buzz..

so i got ti6k no 2749 nice

[amadeo]

All kidding aside though Amadeo, I have not heard the ti10k so I can't really say.. have you heard the S3100 or Paragon or K2 ? Do you think there might be some reason that JBL use horns for all of the statement speakers?

Bernard

you should hear the ti10's or my vaders there sound is realy somthing special i am not talking .....punch drunk sound ....for that you can get a sub ....i am talking about detail....talking about the sound stage ....talking about the whole 9 yards ......now this is with out a sub add a 600 watt sub with my vaders and you get a sound that is next to nothing.....go to the nearest jbl showroom and let the salesman give you an audition to these speakers ..if he has any left ...i am sure who ever sees ..hears ...touches them gets hooked like bait on a fishing rod .....once you all have done that i 'll be waiting for your appologies:)

[Bernard Wolf]

....i am talking about detail....talking about the sound stage ....talking about the whole 9 yards ...........go to the nearest jbl showroom and let the salesman give you an audition to these speakers ..if he has any left ...i am sure who ever sees ..hears ...touches them gets hooked like bait on a fishing rod .....once you all have done that i 'll be waiting for your appologies:)

You would not believe the pinpoint imaging and soundstage depth that the S3100 puts out... compares very well to Quads and I know because I owned them. And talk about detail, well they do that as well, especially in the bass were they are incredibly articulate without the drivers moving at all... color that less distortion.. and to top it off they look the part.. enough said... you really must hear one of the statement JBL horns before you can really say..

As for auditioning the Ti.. wish I could but here in Montreal there is no one that carries them. I doubt very much though, that they would do for me what the 15"/horns do for me..:D but hey,... love them and I don't blame you one bit for getting all excited:applaud:

Bernard

Bernard

[amadeo]

Amadeo......The Klipschorn has been in steady production for 50 years. No other speaker has had sutch a following. The Khorn has evolved slowly warts and all. I can attest its not perfect but in all the tweeks that have been done to that unit And I quote Paul Klipsch "Its a tweekers dream" I too love JBL . My Klipschorns now have all JBL woofers horn mid drivers & JBL 2404 tweeters. Try playing Mahlers Symphony #6 through your Ti.s & compair to a horn system sutch as mine NO COMPAIRISON. Your tweeters would be laying out on the floor gasping their last breath. ITS CALLED DYNAMIC SLAM Direct radiators have a tough time reproduceing this importent neuance in music. As far as Paris Hilten? I like a little more meat on my women. She might be ok for a one knight stand but I dont think she could keep up with me for a second date. (No dynamic slam).;)

dynamic slam!!
bose's (direct reflecting spekers)
definitive (bipolar super towers)
B&W (tube loaded tweeters)

each company gives a technology a gimic name .....used for marketing and each has reviews that this technology is better than all the rest i had to laugh when i saw the review on DEF TECHS speakers advertisement

ill quote

"......reviewers agree that bipolar loudspeakers are sonically superior to all others for both music and home theater .
in fact, top expert BRENT BUTTERWORTH raved that bipolar systems are as close as weve come to finding the HOLY GRAIL. only definitive's revolutionary bipolars have two complete sets of high definition drivers they radiate sound...the same way sound is produced naturaly"

common give me a break DEF TECH ...what.. after reading this i should go tipsy like and go oh i just have to get me bipolar sound ...they sound the same way sound is produce naturaly ....i know another bipolar sound that is produced naturaly..... my a$$ producing gass ,sound ....it dosent get more natural than that .

dont even get me started on bose ...who ever got a bose speaker should commit suicide ...no questions asked ...just pull out a gun put it to your brain and pull the trigger .....

give us all a break

[amadeo]

A few weeks ago I posted a thread asking "Has anyone heard these....Ti10K?"...zip, nada, nothing....j

Horn loaded systems may not be as aesthetically pleasing to look at (save the Paragon) they give you that "slam factor" that once experienced is unlikely to be forgotten.

HORNS BABY!!!!!! YEAH!!!!!

:applaud: :applaud: :applaud: :applaud:

sorry i wasent here a few weeks ago but .......i am here now ...and i dont have the ti10k ...i do have its little sibling ti6k .....and you should know by now that i just love them in an innocent way ...no freak talk ...last night our conversations went south so fast......i guess thats what you get when you place a bunch of middle age men in a single room chatting ....

if you whant slam factor get your self a 1k sub ..you dont need slam comming out of your mains ...the best lay out is a .1 system for cinima the .1 being your sub .....everybody knows that

[louped garouv]

...the best lay out is a .1 system for cinima the .1 being your sub .....everybody knows that


glad to have you here now, by the way....

but I thought it was better to have two subs........:blink: Two BIG ones.....

[amadeo]

glad to have you here now, by the way....

but I thought it was better to have two subs........:blink: Two BIG ones.....

oh yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


you are sooo right ....if i had the money i would defenitly get 2 isay again two tik 600 subs :nutz::band::dancin::banana::bouncy:......talk about bringing the house down yeah baby yeah

[Titanium Dome]

If you read the Harman International white paper on subs, the correct answer is four! And for a normal room, I'd have to say I agree.

That's why I'm saving for PS1400 #4 right now. In fact, if mikebake doesn't like his sub1500s, I'll try four of those and reduce the PS1400s to 80-130Hz duty as part of the mains.

[louped garouv]

If you read the Harman International white paper on subs, the correct answer is four! And for a normal room, I'd have to say I agree.



I read on the LAB that they recommended 4 of that sub as well.... just too much realestate for me to have taken up by the stereo...

I woudl be happy to get all my stuff in cabinets... I am going to try to clone a pair of 4647 this weekend.... right now i am running the one I got for cheap, but the cabinet is rough to say the least..... can't wait to have a pair of sealed cabinets......

[Rusnzha]

common give me a break DEF TECH ...what.. after reading this i should go tipsy like and go oh i just have to get me bipolar sound ...they sound the same way sound is produce naturaly ....i know another bipolar sound that is produced naturaly..... my a$ producing gass ,sound ....it dosent get more natural than that .


How is Def tech like George Bush?

They both only fool believers!

I once brought home a Def Tech 250 W subwoofer to use with my surround sound. I got out my Joe Satriani Engines of Creation SACD and put it in the player. I turned it to a reasonable volume and started it up. About 8 or 9 minutes later, I heard a pop and the bass went dead.

I opened up the box and I couldn't believe I was looking at so called "high end". The 12" woofer looked real cheap, but the real revelation was the amp. It had 4 small transistors in the output stage and a power transformer that could fit in a medium size medicine vial. There were no heat sinks in sight and it was hot enough to fry eggs. No matter how they put this stuff together, crap is crap. I ran (not walked) back to the store and got my money back. Anytime, I listen to someone brag about their Def Techs, I think about my JBLs and have a good (but silent) laugh.

Th Bi-Polar Def Techs sounded like crap also. The only time they sounded OK was when the Yamaha DSP was turned on.

[Titanium Dome]

I read on the LAB that they recommended 4 of that sub as well.... just too much realestate for me to have taken up by the stereo...

I woudl be happy to get all my stuff in cabinets... I am going to try to clone a pair of 4647 this weekend.... right now i am running the one I got for cheap, but the cabinet is rough to say the least..... can't wait to have a pair of sealed cabinets......

Good luck with that clone. :yes:

Yes, four subs takes a lot of space. Three caused a little stir here; we'll see if four crosses the line with the GF. If so, she'll have to go. :rotfl:

[amadeo]

If you read the Harman International white paper on subs, the correct answer is four! And for a normal room, I'd have to say I agree.

That's why I'm saving for PS1400 #4 right now. In fact, if mikebake doesn't like his sub1500s, I'll try four of those and reduce the PS1400s to 80-130Hz duty as part of the mains.

titanium dome....as alwayse you cease to amaze me ..(by the way i attached the ceriticate at the biggining of this page)..........i googled and have printed the whole white paper report on every thing it is a wonderful read ......to any body who is in research on av this is a good place to start ...ill post the url

http://www.harman.com/wp/index.jsp?articleld=default


regarding 4 subs that seems a little excessive but i havent ever seen a homtheater with 4 dedicated subs......just woundering how will you connect them to your receiver /power /amplifier .....with only one sub out.....
will you need 4 amplifiers ....if so count me out of the lay out 2 ...i ll think about it....

no actualy i am thinking of getting another 200 watt ROTEL rmb 1095

for 7.1 channels ...and probably bi amping my mains.....there is so much i can do ...i havent even started to scratch the surface ...

first things first get a 600 tik sub

get a tik center

get 2 more ti6k's and place them as rears ..i will not get the ti10 k..those are if you do not have a sub in your setup

get another rotel rmb1095

get another 600 watt sub ...

man i have a long way to go

my vaders are very lonely....

i have attached a lounge i have created in a hurry to give me an idea ...:barf:

[pelly3s]

all this talk makes me want to buy 3 more 4430's and then build some subs and have a home theater setup

[amadeo]

all this talk makes me want to buy 3 more 4430's and then build some subs and have a home theater setup

every body should have a hometheater by know ...so yeah if your lucky enough to find 3 1984 working 4430 .....what are you waiting for .....

4430 :biting::banghead: another horn speaker

[Maron Horonzakz]

Amadeo....One thing about a FULL horn system. The dynamic wave fronts will peel the green off your teeth & dust the crabs off your balls. No Ti system will do that.

[Titanium Dome]

Amadeo....One thing about a FULL horn system. The dynamic wave fronts will peel the green off your teeth & dust the crabs off your balls. No Ti system will do that.


Fortunately, it doesn't have to. It just has to sound better. :rotfl:

And I like my crabs.

http://www.ashastd.org/stdfaqs/crabs.html

[JBLnsince1959]

every body should have a hometheater by know ...so yeah if your lucky enough to find 3 1984 working 4430 .....what are you waiting for .....




no, no, no amadeo and pelly3s, don't use a 4430 for the center channel. Best solution is to take 2 old C-35's ( which by the why are nothing more than big-ass mid-basses, mid-ranges and highs), put all newer speakers in ( E130, 4425, 2402) and split the center channel signal and use both C-35's for center channel. THEN use the 4430's for your Left and right front speakers ( of course with an added 2235 sub on each side [ crossed over at 100]and also a 2404 [ crossed at 8000 or so)

looks something like this ( alittle tacky looking but works great). Incredible for movies

[Steve Gonzales]

i have noticed that 99% of people in this forum prefer horns to tweeter speakrs

i personaly dont know whats so special with horns...i guess to each his own ....my freind has a SVA 1800 fronts SVA 1600 rears , SVA center ...the sound for movies is out of this world but for music my TIK's knock them out with a single blow....

first , detail ....well for one the SVA horns have non or very minimul compared to the articulaty of my TIK's...

Sound stage .... ok the horns give a wide playful image of the soundstage witch can easily be imitated by my yamaha dsp processor all i have to push is the hall or concert button in my remote and voila ....there is nothing "realistic" about the sound in the horns i am not saying its bad i am just saying its different in a bad way:dont-know

my friend was like you it took a while and an audition of my speakers to compare the sounds between the SVA and my TIK i finaly managed to pull him to the dark side ...and he still for some reason totaly loves his 5 year SVA system ...i gues once you go horns you dont go back...but he said he will move the SVA to another room and buy tiks for his entertainment room (he has more money than me ) :cheers:

so if your into movies or music the tweeter array (search you feelings ) is the best way to go The SVA's are nice ,but if that is the extent of your working/listening knowledge of compression drivers, wait until you hear some 435Be. drivers mounted on 2397 smithhorns!, they will really TIK you off :p . It would be difficult to judge the entire Chevrolet line of cars ,if all you ever drove was a Chevette and not a CORVETTE. I am from the school of thought that if a person likes something, good for them, I'm happy that you are in love with your TIK's, I respect that too, BUT, They are no match for a REAL set of compression driver equipped models, IMO.

[JBLnsince1959]

The SVA's are nice ,but if that is the extent of your working/listening knowledge of compression drivers, wait until you hear some 435Be. drivers mounted on 2397 smithhorns!, they will really TIK you off :p . It would be difficult to judge the entire Chevrolet line of cars ,if all you ever drove was a Chevette and not a CORVETTE. I am from the school of thought that if a person likes something, good for them, I'm happy that you are in love with your TIK's, I respect that too, BUT, They are no match for a REAL set of compression driver equipped models, IMO.

10-4, but again I think it depends on what you like, the size of the room what you doing with them etc.

[Steve Gonzales]

I hope that what I said was prefaced and articulate enough to say just that. No flame, just opinion.;)

[DMMD]

To each their own. It's ALL good. :applaud:

Now what exactly have we learned from this thread again? :blink:

Get "Horney" for JBL? Time to take the test.

http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Campus/4847/

[amadeo]

Fortunately, it doesn't have to. It just has to sound better. :rotfl:

And I like my crabs.

http://www.ashastd.org/stdfaqs/crabs.html

yuck do those things realy live on my b@@LL$............ how in the hell did you find a picture of it, my wife will not do me for a whole month if she finds out:barf:

[JBLnsince1959]

yuck do those things realy live on my b@@LL$:barf:

that's for you to find out. personally their not on my balls.

[amadeo]

no, no, no amadeo and pelly3s, don't use a 4430 for the center channel. Best solution is to take 2 old C-35's ( which by the why are nothing more than big-ass mid-basses, mid-ranges and highs), put all newer speakers in ( E130, 4425, 2402) and split the center channel signal and use both C-35's for center channel. THEN use the 4430's for your Left and right front speakers ( of course with an added 2235 sub on each side [ crossed over at 100]and also a 2404 [ crossed at 8000 or so)

looks something like this ( alittle tacky looking but works great). Incredible for movies

nice rig by the way needs two things
first a big ass tv.....
second pick your gear off the floor....my dearest jblsince1959...if thats your home theater please i beg you go know idont care if there is a storm comming go get your self a nice av rack and lift your gear from the floor your equipment for all you now could be crawling with ants or other pests you never could know....(hell i never knew my "gear" had crabs crawling on it i think i am going to shave now....:blink:

[louped garouv]

you prolly don't have to worry too much........

[amadeo]

that's for you to find out. personally their not on my balls.

:yes:.....toshe ....i hope there not on mine either

[Titanium Dome]

The SVA's are nice ,but if that is the extent of your working/listening knowledge of compression


Agreed that the SVAs are not the same as the big horns, but even here we can discuss differences both positive and negative. Don't forget that the SVA Bi-Radial horn is a refined version of this revered horn:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/443035.pdf

You are right that there's a big difference in the driver itself: a soft dome in the SVA and Ti (Yes! Ti!) in the 4430 and 4435. Believe me when I say I've thought about putting Ti in the SVA horns, but there's all the actual mental work required to do it right, and I'm, well, you know, busy. :o:

[amadeo]

by the way JBLSINCE1959....your avatar in it you have a pic of a german shepard....is that yours ....you probably told other the story of your dog ...i would love to know.......i once had a GS (alex) and we had to put her down sadest day of my life ...she got to old ....:(

well i hope your dog lives a long and happy life :o:

[Robh3606]

I have done a comparison between the XPL-200A and 4344 clones that I built. The Titanium midrange and tweeter in the XPL-200 have nothing to be ashamed of. They held there own and did a very good job. They can't keep up with the SPL's of the compression drivers but they were much better as far as dynamics than I expected. I guess that should not be a surprise as the XPL-200's were designed to have minimal power compression. Not all dome systems will be designed with this as a key factor but it is possible to have a dome system that does a credible job is this horn dominated domain. Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

"...thanks man ...(i wish i thaught of that nick by the way )what is it ...whats so special about them horns ...i have heard the sva ...i have heard the retarded KLIPSCH wich is beter sounding then the SVA .."amadeo



I think it is simple, you have a discerning ear and have yet to hear a good horn system. I love good horn systems, and good conventional dynamic radiator systems... it is easier to produce a passable design using a dome tweeter than it is with most other solutions and hence the preponderance of them.

I have built many systems using horns and direct radiators... I have had successes and failures with both. In my experimenting with horns I have found many more horns that I dislike than those I do like. Most horn systems can be improved with some external EQ... most audiophiles are afraid of EQ.... they have experienced the 10 band Audio Control junk and have moved on, but most of the horn lovers that I know do implement some form of EQ to tame the peaks associated with so many horns. Unfortunately along with greatly improved dynamics (not just the ability to play loudly), horns tend to reduce the inherent linearity of the device they are coupling to the air. The better horns give you a well controlled polar pattern, increased dynamics, and affect the driver's inherent linearity the least.

Widget

[JBLnsince1959]

nice rig by the way needs two things
first a big ass tv.....

I don't have the room ....


second pick your gear off the floor

that picture was taken abut 21/2 years ago. The reason everything is on the floor is that I'm constantly trying new things ( pre-amps, amps, active crossovers, speakers wires, cables, power cords, equalizers etc) and having everything in a big old racks is a pain in the ass when your changing speaker wire, cables, amps etc . In this picture I had ( you can't see all of it) over 12 amps( 10 mono), three pre-amps, active crossovers,and 2 audio control C-131 equalizers, ( I was testing as much as anything). Trying to track all of that and have them in racks is impossible.

this is my play room or my lab ( it was not my main listening room ) where I try everything. also not seen are 2206's 2202's 2204's E145's, 2123's etc, and a whole lot of other gear that I was playing with.

The reason this picture was taken as it is, was when I first came to this site I mentioned my C-35's and Bo asked for pictures and this is what the room looked like at the time. This room is MY room ( it's all she gives me), the rest of the house is very nicely done. and of course we're talking about horns so I just threw this in. This is not how the room looks today

what can I say - but boys and their toys. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[JBLnsince1959]

"...thanks man ...(i wish i thaught of that nick by the way )what is it ...whats so special about them horns ...i have heard the sva ...i have heard the retarded KLIPSCH wich is beter sounding then the SVA .."amadeo



I think it is simple, you have a discerning ear and have yet to hear a good horn system. I love good horn systems, and good conventional dynamic radiator systems... it is easier to produce a passable design using a dome tweeter than it is with most other solutions and hence the preponderance of them.

I have built many systems using horns and direct radiators... I have had successes and failures with both. In my experimenting with horns I have found many more horns that I dislike than those I do like. Most horn systems can be improved with some external EQ... most audiophiles are afraid of EQ.... they have experienced the 10 band Audio Control junk and have moved on, but most of the horn lovers that I know do implement some form of EQ to tame the peaks associated with so many horns. Unfortunately along with greatly improved dynamics (not just the ability to play loudly), horns tend to reduce the inherent linearity of the device they are coupling to the air. The better horns give you a well controlled polar pattern, increased dynamics, and affect the driver's inherent linearity the least.

Widget

very well put Widget...that hits the nail on the head... :thmbsup:

[amadeo]

I don't have the room ....

The reason everything is on the floor is that I'm constantly trying new things (Trying to track all of that and have them in racks is impossible.

this is my play room or my lab ( it was not my main listening room ) where I try everything. also not seen are 2206's 2202's 2204's E145's, 2123's etc, and a whole lot of other gear that I was playing with.
what can I say - but boys and their toys. :banana: :banana: :banana:

nice point...........i know exactly were you are comming, from i too like too figit alot with the wiring with the cables and gear ..and true enough the racks do make it a liitle hard and a little dangerous, how many times an amp was going to fall ...only thank god i cought it just in time .....and not talking about the back aches wich com with me truing to get to the back of my gear....

you know what i am going to put all my gear on the floor too:applaud:

[amadeo]

I have done a comparison between the XPL-200A and 4344 clones that I built.

your very lucky to own a xpl 200 ....i have seen many reviews that always give it a 5 star rating ...i know you love it dont you ....come on you can tell us ...deep down i know you love it more than your 4344 clones ....

even if thier is always a special something when you build your own speaker..it leaves a very special mark in your history ...of accomplishment ....

but still i bet u just adore your xpl 200....

[amadeo]

who is the CEO of JBL or harmon.co....
i am going to email him the largest letter describing to him and attaching as much reports as i can ...i am going to tell him that from now on he should only make tweeter array speakers...and to never touch a horn ....or even think of placing one on any speaker they will desighn for the future all i need now is all your signatures to send to him......come on guys ....whos with me?:bouncy:

[louped garouv]

:bs:


yeah I see THAT happening

[Mr. Widget]

who is the CEO of JBL or harmon.co....
i am going to email him the largest letter describing to him and attaching as much reports as i can ...i am going to tell him that from now on he should only make tweeter array speakers...and to never touch a horn ....or even think of placing one on any speaker they will desighn for the future all i need now is all your signatures to send to him......come on guys ....whos with me?:bouncy:

I thought you liked JBL... why would you want to steer them down that dark alley... they seem quite capable of making stupid decisions on there own...

Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Seriously... tweeter arrays like those you linked previously, the McIntosh system from the 80's, the Infinity IRS... they all sound screwy to me... They obviously have an appeal to some or they wouldn't still be around, but for the types of music I listen to they all have sounded rather unnatural.

Widget

[amadeo]

:bs:


yeah I see THAT happening

come on ...what a turn off ......you must see it comming.... the end of horns ...just look at all the latest products of jbl .........
go to www.jbl.com and see the products ...more and more speakers are comming with tweeters than horns ...do you know why ...ill tell you because the people at jbl see the truth ..the truth that is that horns are nothing but a speaker with ears .....or tell me whats stopping them ....it wont cost them that much more to put horns on all their speakers (if they were that good than ...most jbl speakers will be with horns.....hell all speaker brands would be with horns if they were that good....
your telling me that all companies do not want profit or they just dont want thier speakers too sound good ....common guys give us a break and sighn just post your name and a big NO to horns...we will only quicken the process thats all ..i told you guys you (horn lovers ) are a dying religion you wont last

[JBLnsince1959]

Seriously... tweeter arrays like those you linked previously, the McIntosh system from the 80's, the Infinity IRS... they all sound screwy to me... They obviously have an appeal to some or they wouldn't still be around, but for the types of music I listen to they all have sounded rather unnatural.

Widget

10-4....

Amadeo....leave this alone

[amadeo]

10-4....

Amadeo....leave this alone

this posts title is HORNS VS TWEETERS
so in this post all will discuss their point of view of why should speakers have horns or why should they have tweeters ....
and i must make them see my point of view ....and hopefully just discussing this issue or any issue ...just bringing it up ...makes people think ..and a single thought is the start of everything beutiful in this world......just remember mr. bell and his thought of speakers

[Zilch]

more and more speakers are comming [sic] with tweeters than horns ...do you know why ...Sure. They're only suited to PROFESSIONAL use, and the very highest end of JBL consumer offerings, because it's quite expensive to build good horns and compression drivers into designs.

Perhaps you would have been just as happy with a "Creature II" system. You could have saved yourself a lot of money and had a pair of crab tweeters (one for each,) AND a TRUE Vader subwoofer to kiss in the bargain.

[And a couple of handles to grab onto it by, too! :p ]

Next time, ask here first. Knowing what we know now, we could have given you appropriate guidance in making a discerning selection....

[JBLnsince1959]

come on ...what a turn off ......you must see it comming.... the end of horns ...just look at all the latest products of jbl .........
go to www.jbl.com and see the products ...we will only quicken the process thats all ..i told you guys you (horn lovers ) are a dying religion you wont last

yes, the death of horns.... amadeo, I really like you, but you've gone a little too far with your thinking. Here's JBL's answer for you.....

[louped garouv]

beautiful

[Steve Gonzales]

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Sure. They're only suited to PROFESSIONAL use, and the very highest end of JBL consumer offerings, because it's quite expensive to build good horns and compression drivers into designs.

Perhaps you would have been just as happy with a "Creature II" system. You could have saved yourself a lot of money and had a pair of crab tweeters AND a TRUE Vader subwoofer to kiss in the bargain.

[And a couple of handles to grab onto it by, too! :p ]

Next time, ask here first. Knowing what we know now, we could have given you appropriate guidance in making a discerning selection....

[Zilch]

:D

[amadeo]

those are very nice speakers ...zilch....i think i am alone...i guess i should have known better than too put my head with you old geezers....there is no changing your mind....:applaud:......oh well just do one thing all of you go when ever you are free and go give a listen to the tiks ..please will you at least do that...you owe it to your ears ....

its very cold and lonely in tweeter land

[Steve Gonzales]

This is a tweeter too ;)

[JBLnsince1959]

those are very nice speakers ....i think i am alone...i guess i should have known better than too put my head with you old geezers....there is no changing your mind....:applaud:......oh well just do one thing all of you go when ever you are free and go give a listen to the tiks ..please will you at least do that...you owe it to your ears ....

its very cold and lonely in tweeter land

No, you've got lots of comapny ( including me), except that my love of tweeters does not exclude horns, I love those too. Yes, the tweeters are great and the TiK sound wonderful, but so do alot of horn speakers from JBL. each to his own. The performance series is about the closest thing there is to your speakers and I'm liking them more each day, wonderful sound.

anyway, we shall all agree that we love our speakers. The TiK speakers almost can't be found in the US ( very rare) and that's sad. We in the US are in a strange no-mans land of the new and very good JBL's. They're just not here, what we get are the Best Buy commercial stuff ( not bad for the money, in fact very, very good for the money,) I own some)

I have a question to ask. Exactly what speakers with horns have you heard?

take care

[Maron Horonzakz]

Amadeo....You will need to hear a TiK and a JBL K2 S98000 side by side to know what we,r talking about. Then you,l scratch that Tic off your balls.;)

[Zilch]

i think i am alone...i guess i should have known better than too put my head with you old geezers...its very cold and lonely in tweeter landThe path to enlightenment is indeed a solitary pilgrimage.

We can but guide your way, Grasshopper.... :)

[amadeo]

No, you've got lots of comapny ( including me), except that my love of tweeters does not exclude horns, I love those too. Yes, the tweeters are great and the TiK sound wonderful, but so do alot of horn speakers from JBL. each to his own. The performance series is about the closest thing there is to your speakers and I'm liking them more each day, wonderful sound.

anyway, we shall all agree that we love our speakers. The TiK speakers almost can't be found in the US ( very rare) and that's sad. We in the US are in a strange no-mans land of the new and very good JBL's. They're just not here, what we get are the Best Buy commercial stuff ( not bad for the money, in fact very, very good for the money,) I own some)

I have a question to ask. Exactly what speakers with horns have you heard?

take care

i was in bed with both the sva 1800 and the klipsch.both my freinds ...have posted before any way your right i respect everybodys choice in speakers ..........read my first thread .....why do 99 %of you love horns?

so i got 100+ posts found out you like doly parton and you have a beutiful german shepard ...+many many information on many things ..things i didnt know about like "harmons white paper on subs"

and if for nothing else i got to know all you kind people......:)

[Titanium Dome]

yes, the death of horns.... amadeo, I really like you, but you've gone a little too far with your thinking. Here's JBL's answer for you.....


Ha ha, nice try. :bouncy:

Here's Harman International's answer:

[amadeo]

Ha ha, nice try. :bouncy:

Here's Harman International's answer:

yeah woooow:dancin:titanium were have you been my angel i was all alone you should have been here it was realy ugly ....they all ganged up on me ...i was defending my self with every breath i could muster out .....but with one sweet blow you showed them

but i guess know every thing is ok :all bow down to REVEL

titanium came
titanium saw
titanim conqured

[louped garouv]

it was realy ugly ....they all ganged up on me ...i was defending my self with every breath i could muster out .....


you just needed an air HORN to get your breath out in a more assertive manner.... :blink:

Ever heard a pair of Altec Model 19,s?

[amadeo]

you just needed an air HORN to get your breath out in a more assertive manner.... :blink:

see what i had too deal with ...hopless case these guys...i rest my case

LOUPED GAROUV before saying any thing else shame on you you dont know the k2 s9800 ....google it and then talk to me

[louped garouv]

see what i had too deal with ...hopless case these guys...i rest my case

LOUPED GAROUV before saying any thing else shame on you you dont know the k2 s9800 ....google it and then talk to me


I am too young -- trying to school myself on the vintage stuff..... maybe at some point in the future I will be able to hear (20/30 year old) K2,s or TiK,s.... :D


Seriously though... I like different systems for different purposes..... definately can not have my Model 19,s in the shower with me......... :rotfl::rotfl: :rotfl:

[amadeo]

ok guys got to go ....were just joking around ......yes ......well see you ...........will talk to you again .......when i have finaly finished my whole setup witch will cost me roughly another 10,000$ until october......stay alive:D

any way i realy did enjoy all of you and nice to meet you all
good listening......and death to horns ...(just kidding ) ...
this is the best forum i have ever visited
of course it is its JBL forum and you know how i love JBL
bye see you in a month...i will miss you

[Steve Gonzales]

Hey Amadeo, I can't remember the last time there was a war with no blood shed!, you've started a thread that although has very polarized opinions, nobody got rude/nasty and it was alot of fun. Take care and good luck, Steve G

[JBLnsince1959]

Amadeo:

I hope you're not leaving. It's been fun with this thread ( and yes, horns are big here, but so are tweeters, they just won't admit it - ha) and was looking forward to seeing you on threads.

take care

[Titanium Dome]

We all have our favorites for sure, but I think a majority of us wouldn't kick any JBL out on a cold night, even the lowliest of the low, horn or tweeter.

Plus, if I look really hard at a Performance Series PT800 or PC600 tweeter, I've got to admit there's homage to the great horns of the past in the World's Smallest Horn®, the EOS Waveguide®.

Hey horn lovers: look! It's the World's Smallest Horn®, and it's playiing just for you. :rotfl:

[JBLnsince1959]

by the way JBLSINCE1959....your avatar in it you have a pic of a german shepard....is that yours ....you probably told other the story of your dog ...i would love to know.......i once had a GS (alex) and we had to put her down sadest day of my life ...she got to old ....:(

well i hope your dog lives a long and happy life :o:



Amadeo:

OK, about my german shepherd, her name is Whitney and we call her Whit ( I posted this somewhere before but it's easier to write again rather than find it) and she is around 51/2 years old. She stays with me almost 100% of the time day and night and she's my baby now. She weights about 107 Lbs and is on a diet to get down to 100lbs.

she has bad hips so we don't know how long we will have her, I'm hoping til she's 12 ( pray). here's some pictures of her and me....( Ok, OK so I'm showing off my baby)

[amadeo]

ok my darlings ....
i have to go on a 45 day bussiness trip to malaysia
so i cannot post regularly if ever very busy

any way didnt want to leave with out saying good bye that would be rude of me
and to leave u with a little somthing to remember me by....(she realy loves her tiks)

ps :jblsince1995...loved your gs pics
these are espesialy dedicated for you and titaniumdome ...good listening.....

[Figge]

come on ...what a turn off ......you must see it comming.... the end of horns ...just look at all the latest products of jbl .........
go to www.jbl.com (http://www.jbl.com/) and see the products ...more and more speakers are comming with tweeters than horns ...do you know why ...ill tell you because the people at jbl see the truth ..the truth that is that horns are nothing but a speaker with ears .....or tell me whats stopping them ....it wont cost them that much more to put horns on all their speakers (if they were that good than ...most jbl speakers will be with horns.....hell all speaker brands would be with horns if they were that good....
your telling me that all companies do not want profit or they just dont want thier speakers too sound good ....common guys give us a break and sighn just post your name and a big NO to horns...we will only quicken the process thats all ..i told you guys you (horn lovers ) are a dying religion you wont last

:bs: u mean all speakers are going to have those whimpy dome tweeters? :barf:


nice lady btw....

[pangea]

I think the most likely reasons for not using horns anymore are:

1. They cost more
2. It takes a lot more to make a time aligned x-over
3. The common missconseptions that horns are no good.

BR
Roland

[JBLnsince1959]

ok my darlings ....
i have to go on a 45 day bussiness trip to malaysia
so i cannot post regularly if ever very busy

any way didnt want to leave with out saying good bye that would be rude of me
and to leave u with a little somthing to remember me by....(she realy loves her tiks)

.....

Oh, Ok. At first it sounded like you were upset and leaving the forum and I thought - "Damn - Lost another one to Ditech" ( it's a commerical here in the states - you may not get the joke)

anyway, thanks for the heads up and wish you a safe trip. see you when you get back.

BTW...thanks for the pictures...they picked me up.

[Maron Horonzakz]

Next month Ill see you at HIGH NOON. Do not forsake me oh my darlin.

[JBLnsince1959]

(she realy loves her tiks)
.....

yeah...and I really love her T*ts.... :applaud:

[Titanium Dome]

I think the most likely reasons for not using horns anymore are:

1. They cost more
2. It takes a lot more to make a time aligned x-over
3. The common missconseptions that horns are no good.

BR
Roland


For some reason I kept reading #3 as "The common misconception that horns are good." I thought it meant as people realize what an artificial boost horns give to natural sound their tastes will slowly move away from them.

Now that I'm reading it the way pangea wrote it, I still agree with 1 and 2. :nanana:

[Titanium Dome]

If you're already gone, it'll be a long time before you read this. It will mean I've already been abandoned to fight on alone. :duel:

I hate to bring this up, but Paris Hilton is more like a horn. There's a lot of artificial sculpting and added boost there to make something have more pizazz than it really has, and once people get used to the artificial image of fake beauty, they get addicted to it: abnormal peaks and valleys, deceptive curves, false brightness, and artificial extensions.

Enjoy your trip. :smthsail:

[morbo!]

man i find horns in general have alot less distortion in them
especially if you are listening to old vinal or somthing of that nature
i find tweeter speakers have much more scratchiness i had 1 set that tryed to blame it on the mids
now a dedicated horn fan 4ever
i bought my 1st set of horns off ebay in aus here because we dont get as much jbl eqiptment dumped on ebay i had to settle for an old pair with no brand name on em just a serial number
but as a recent convert who has never owned a set in 22 years of listening. i am sold in their home hifi applications
i got the best sound i ever had in my life with horns
awsome i owe people and web sites like this so much for a bit of knowledge that is hard to get if u a backward islander stuck on the other side of the world

[pangea]

For some reason I kept reading #3 as "The common misconception that horns are good." I thought it meant as people realize what an artificial boost horns give to natural sound their tastes will slowly move away from them.

Now that I'm reading it the way pangea wrote it, I still agree with 1 and 2. :nanana:

Hmm, I don't think I got the notifications, or I just missed them, anyway, IME there are horns and there are horns.

Some horns, when crossed over, below, at, or near their rated usefulness, I totally agree, they can sound bad, with added coloration and all kinds of problems.
Other cheap horns can sound bad all together, regardless the freq.

In my previous post, I realize, that I should have written:
3. The common misconceptions that all horns sound bad.

Because there are horns and there are horns.
Horns, like for instance the Bruce Edgar tractrix curve, which IME, for some reason sounds as transparent as can be and THEREFORE there is no turning back.:nanana: :moon: ;) :D

BR
Roland

[Zilch]

We want Amadeo to come back. This was a fun exchange. :)

[JBLnsince1959]

We want Amadeo to come back. This was a fun exchange. :)

you know I've been thinking about Amadeo lately. Wonder if he'll ever be back?

[Titanium Dome]

I remember growing up on the farm in NW Ohio and spending many an idyllic afternoon (after chores of course) wandering the fields and fence rows of the farm, going down to the creek to look for crawdads, and running into deer, 'coons, snakes, and skunks, suprising us both. When it was time for supper, my mom would open the back screen door, cup her hands over her mouth, and yell out "Doug-laaas! Douuug-las!"

I could hear her from a mile away.

That's not how my mom sounds naturally, and I don't want to hear her shouting like that up close, but it was an effective way for her to channel and direct maximum sound in my general direction. I don't think any of us walk around with our hands cupped around our mouths in an attempt to be more natural sounding. I don't generally see singers doing that. I don't see musicians placing horns in front of their instruments (excpet for horned instruments, of course).

So, while I'm generally receptive to the advantages of horns for certain sonic benefits, I'm not convinced that the concept of the horn itself lends any credibility to sound reproduction as an exercise in naturalness.

There are some really cool looking horns, and some intelligent designers have spent a lot of time working out the benefit/deficit ratio of horn construction to the benefit side of the ledger. Nonetheless, when I want naturalism more than artificial dynamism, it's direct radiators for me, baby. Yeah.

All you horn lovers, cup your hands when you speak to me. :p

[Figge]

the throat and mouth is a horn;) suppose it would look funny if a dome was sticking out....:D

[Titanium Dome]

the throat and mouth is a horn;) suppose it would look funny if a dome was sticking out....:D


The mouth is more like an EOS Waveguide if you ask me.

[Mr. Widget]

I'm not convinced that the concept of the horn itself lends any credibility to sound reproduction as an exercise in naturalness.
Yeah my mom's vocal chords look like a little metal dome... I only like cymbals that are tiny and domed shaped, and I can't stand it when someone plays a clarinet that doesn't have a little metal dome over the opening...


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

Yeah my mom's vocal chords look like a little metal dome... I only like cymbals that are tiny and domed shaped, and I can't stand it when someone plays a clarinet that doesn't have a little metal dome over the opening...


Widget

Unfortunately for this argument, usually behind that horn is a driver that's dome shaped or flat and made of metal or fabric, neither of which is like your mom's chords or a clarinet. ;)

[pangea]

I remember growing up on the farm in NW Ohio and spending many an idyllic afternoon (after chores of course) wandering the fields and fence rows of the farm, going down to the creek to look for crawdads, and running into deer, 'coons, snakes, and skunks, suprising us both. When it was time for supper, my mom would open the back screen door, cup her hands over her mouth, and yell out "Doug-laaas! Douuug-las!"

I could hear her from a mile away.

That's not how my mom sounds naturally, and I don't want to hear her shouting like that up close, but it was an effective way for her to channel and direct maximum sound in my general direction. I don't think any of us walk around with our hands cupped around our mouths in an attempt to be more natural sounding. I don't generally see singers doing that. I don't see musicians placing horns in front of their instruments (excpet for horned instruments, of course).

So, while I'm generally receptive to the advantages of horns for certain sonic benefits, I'm not convinced that the concept of the horn itself lends any credibility to sound reproduction as an exercise in naturalness.

There are some really cool looking horns, and some intelligent designers have spent a lot of time working out the benefit/deficit ratio of horn construction to the benefit side of the ledger. Nonetheless, when I want naturalism more than artificial dynamism, it's direct radiators for me, baby. Yeah.

All you horn lovers, cup your hands when you speak to me. :p

Way back when there was no electricity and no amps, things were NATURAL in a natural way, regardless the instrument. Which means, everything is a compromise today.
In those days the amphitheater was built much like a horn, in order to make it possible for those seated in the back rows, to hear everything as clear and crisp, as if the listener was seated in the first row.
What the construction did, was to amplify without any coloration.

With a good construction, it can be done, as long as things are kept within it's boundaries. I would say cupped hands don't cut in the HiFi department, even with the most beautiful hands in the entire world.;)

BR
Roland

[Mr. Widget]

Unfortunately for this argument, usually behind that horn is a driver that's dome shaped or flat and made of metal or fabric, neither of which is like your mom's chords or a clarinet. ;)
No you missed my point entirely. You were suggesting that horns were unnatural. I am saying that all loudspeakers are different from the original source, so therefore whether you use a planar device, a dome, a compression driver, or whatever, the underlying principle isn't what makes one good or bad, but the implementation.

That said, some are easier to pull off than others. I'll take an average quality dome over an average quality horn any day.


Widget

OMG!!! I just realized I am on topic for a change! :banghead:

[JBLnsince1959]

When it was time for supper, my mom would open the back screen door, cup her hands over her mouth, and yell out "Doug-laaas! Douuug-las!"

I could hear her from a mile away.

:p

are you sure she wasn't yelling "duuumb-assssss","duuumb-assssss" :rotfl:

[Ian Mackenzie]

No you missed my point entirely. You were suggesting that horns were unnatural. I am saying that all loudspeakers are different from the original source, so therefore whether you use a planar device, a dome, a compression driver, or whatever, the underlying principle isn't what makes one good or bad, but the implementation.

That said, some are easier to pull off than others. I'll take an average quality dome over an average quality horn any day.


Widget

OMG!!! I just realized I am on topic for a change! :banghead:

Actually domes are more difficult to get right as a transducer than a compression driver....most compression drivers are similar in design but look at how many dome designs are out there..

I have not heard one dome that does everything well...soft, hard, ferro fluid , neo, inverted....there's obviously no one right way of doing it and none do it right...now that makes sense!

Besides, what instrument can you think of that comes from a source less than 1 inch in diameter!

Mind you the same could be said of a horn...oops..that voice is 18 inches wide?

************************************************** ****
The above is just one example of how you can twist an arguement either way..the proof is in the listening. That's why there are thousands of loudspeakers on the market.

[Titanium Dome]

OMG!!! I just realized I am on topic for a change! :banghead:


Shame on you! :scold: Get back on tangent.





Actually my point is that the horn is another layer of artificiality. Obviously we all know that transducers are not original sound sources, but without them and the miracles they perform, we'd get no sound reproduction.

[Titanium Dome]

are you sure she wasn't yelling "duuumb-assssss","duuumb-assssss" :rotfl:


No. One of the virtues of the horn is its ability to focus that sound very distinctly in a specified direction. Plus my mom is a very devout person, unlike her son.

Now my dad would say something like that, but he wouldn't shout it. He'd utter it over and over between strokes of the belt on my bare ass. :moon: :crying:

[toddalin]

Besides, what instrument can you think of that comes from a source less than 1 inch in diameter!

Mind you the same could be said of a horn...oops..that voice is 18 inches wide?

************************************************** ****
The above is just one example of how you can twist an arguement either way..the proof is in the listening. That's why there are thousands of loudspeakers on the market.

I recall that the "cop" in The Village People used a whistle less than 1" in diameter.;)

[Zilch]

Besides, what instrument can you think of that comes from a source less than 1 inch in diameter!

Mind you the same could be said of a horn...oops..that voice is 18 inches wide?We've discussed this before:

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66150&highlight=voice#post66150

[Ian Mackenzie]

Orange County..now that says everything....what colour shirt have you got on?

Mines black..JBL Sound Power...by the way there's only one God and he's black..Jimi Henriks:D

I was reading the LSR paper last night..those little wave guides (elliptical oblate spheriod) are actually quite special. :hmm:


Perhaps we should be focusing on those

[Titanium Dome]

I was reading the LSR paper last night..those little wave guides (elliptical oblate spheriod) are actually quite special. :hmm:


Perhaps we should be focusing on those


Words well spoken, my friend. As an homage to your insight, I modify my avatar to remind us of the moment this wisdom sprang from your keyboard to my screen.

[Mr. Widget]

Actually my point is that the horn is another layer of artificiality. Always a possibility... same with that waveguide on your avatar... you never get something for nothing.:(

I'd submit this little guy is better than any of your Ti domes... it is a non horn loaded ring-radiator from Scan-Speak. It is quite wonderful.

Widget

[Robh3606]

"those little wave guides (elliptical oblate spheriod) are actually quite special"

You mean horns???:D

Yeah know there is not right answer to this one. Between personal preference, drivers and implimentation you have good and bad in all driver types.

Rob:)

[Titanium Dome]

Always a possibility... same with that waveguide on your avatar... you never get something for nothing.:(

Maybe not, but I just picked up a single L100t3 for $7.50. :yes:

More on track, though, of course you're right, it's all a compromise of one sort or antoher. That's one of the great things about a diverse line like JBL, you can have one of each!



I'd submit this little guy is better than any of your Ti domes... it is a non horn loaded ring-radiator from Scan-Speak. It is quite wonderful.

Widget

You can submit it to me for evaluation if you'd like. I can't guarantee that I'll be able to return it, though. These thing have a way of
:uhmmmm: going missing, especially if they find favor. ;)

[Titanium Dome]

"those little wave guides (elliptical oblate spheriod) are actually quite special"

You mean horns???:D

Yeah know there is not right answer to this one. Between personal preference, drivers and implimentation you have good and bad in all driver types.

Rob:)

I think they're all good. But to misquote George Orwell, "Some are gooder than others." :banana:

[Ian Mackenzie]

Always a possibility... same with that waveguide on your avatar... you never get something for nothing.:(

I'd submit this little guy is better than any of your Ti domes... it is a non horn loaded ring-radiator from Scan-Speak. It is quite wonderful.

Widget

So we refer to this as The Widgets "Ring of Confidence" or perhap "Lord of The Rings".........that has a nice ring to it!

[jandregg]

I'd submit this little guy is better than any of your Ti domes... it is a non horn loaded ring-radiator from Scan-Speak. It is quite wonderful.

Widget............................................ .................................................. ..........


Looks like a uni-horn.

John