Westlake HF Horns

[aust-ted]

Hi I am intrigued by the Westlake HF horns on some of the pics I have seen in this forum such as on Ken's speakers. These are the ones that look like mini 2397s. Can anyone point to any info on them and what drivers do they use?

Regards
Ted

[Oldmics]

Try this link for a start


As for drivers-thats all up to your taste and budget


http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=695&highlight=2397

[aust-ted]

Try this link for a start


As for drivers-thats all up to your taste and budget


http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=695&highlight=2397

Oldmics, I was referring to the smaller horn below the 2397 looka like. Have not seen anything on the forum about it. I am reasoinably familiar with the 2397 and Widget's beaut Westlake copy.

Regards
Ted

[Ken Pachkowsky]

The small horns on my Westlakes use a 2426 driver and are used from 4.5k up to 15k.

Ken

[aust-ted]

Ken

Thanks Do they have vanes in them like the 2397s?

Regards
Ted

[John]

These horns are the large and small horns as found in the Westlake SM-1 system. The large ones have the vanes but the small ones do not.

[aust-ted]

John

Thanks Interesting that the 2" throat driver benefits from a horn with vanes but the 1" does not. That is assuming that Westlake got it right which is a fair bet.

Regards
Ted

[John]

Well for the crazy cash Westlake is asking you would hope so.:) The large horn is for the most part made to jbl specs with nicer materials and thicker lips, and on the newer ones like I own they increased the vertical height of the inner horn as well to 2". As far as the smaller horn I think westlake designed it from scratch or a few people I have talked to think that tad might of had a hand in the design but I do not know if this is true or not. But they are real gems :D

[aust-ted]

John

Thanks again The similarity with TADs makes you wonder. They look pretty easy to replicate. The throat might be the hard part. One lesson I am learning about acoustics is that simple scaling up or down does not necessarily work otherwise you could use a 2328 as a guide.

Regards
Ted

[yggdrasil]

Hi Ted


I'm doing some research now on smith horns, with help from Widget.

I have put Bod Smiths formulas into a worksheet, which makes it easy to see what happens when you change the variables.

I have also used these formulas to try and see how JBL was thinking different from Smith.

Anyway, using the formulas, with these parameters: 3000Hz, horn height 1cm, 130 degrees mouth. The horn length (i.e vane length) would be 5cm, vane widht would be 4mm.

I am testing / building a pair now designed to work from 1200Hz. Hope to finish them and start playing sunday / monday.

PM me if you'd like the worksheet. I can also help out with the drawings.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Its a diffraction wave guide in reality. The wide(vertical height) governs the HF dispersion, this is why the 2 inch 2397 tapers off above 10Khz.

The same is true of the 2344 which used a 0.75 inch slit for a 16.5khertz constant directivity bandwidth.

The other physical parameters control LF cut of and hortizontal dispersion.

Ian

[Ken Pachkowsky]

Ken

Thanks Do they have vanes in them like the 2397s?

Regards
Ted


Ted

No they do not.

Ken

[Micha748]

These horns are the large and small horns as found in the Westlake SM-1 system. The large ones have the vanes but the small ones do not.

Does anybody know,how the small horns sound?
And does anybody know how or where to get them?

Regards, Michael

[Ian Mackenzie]

I doubt if they are available of the shelf for the home builder.

Some members have clones Westlake horns , others have diy'd small Smith horns.

Send a pm to Ken for a slightly biased subjective opinion.

Ian

[Ken Pachkowsky]

I doubt if they are available of the shelf for the home builder.

Some members have clones Westlake horns , others have diy'd small Smith horns.

Send a pm to Ken for a slightly biased subjective opinion.

Ian


Very funny Ian:blah:

They sound Fantastic! Happy:bouncy:

Ken

[Micha748]

Good to find a family of this crazy attitude... :-)
Years ago the vice President wanted to buy my whole stuff, but I did not, without negotiating,
they wanted it for their museum they planed (or did meanwhile).

Regarding the wooden horns and 375:
In my very crazy times I tried a lot with some other fanatics here in Germany.
First about the drivers:
For sure the TADs are better if running frrom 500-1.000Hz up to 20kHz. The JBL ones don´t do it that good.
I measured my Westlake horns (I have 3 original pairs with slight differences) with 2441 (aluminium diaphragm with diamond surround) from 500-11.000Hz within +-2db.
I cut them at 8000Hz and run on top 077 tweeter.
In my opinion the TAD 1" and 2" drivers do not sound so good in the tweeter range, probably the diaphragm is not thin enough, as it has to do sound pressure and lows as well.
Seems logical. My old JBL friends told me that, after trying a lot in studios.
But ndfortunately you have more hazzle, as you have another xover...
So I stayed at 4 way.
I would like to compare the 2241 with Westlake and TAD horn,
and then again the 2" TAD drivers at Westlake and TAD horn. (cut off at around 8-10.000Hz)
I really would like to know what plays better.
Has anyone ever tried????
But main problem seems to me the midrange, from 100-1.000Hz.
This is THE PROBLEM I think.
I build up years ago followinfg system:
2 LE-15 in a bass reflex (254 litre per unit, reference size regarding JBL),
middle 2x 2121a (from 4343),
on top 2441 with Westlake and on top 077.
Then I exchanged the 2121 against the 12" from the 4350s.
But efficiency is always below 100db/1Watt/1m.
Thing is, that I would like to try a big horn,
like Iwata, in mahagony or rosewood or something like that,
and as a driver a LE-5, or 2382 with phenolic diaphragm, or perhaps Goto field coil drivers.
The problem first is, that the Iwata horn would have a mouth of 1x1 metre.
Next problem is: I need construction plan and curves...
And also xover...
But I could run a triode amp lie 45 tubes with 1 watt,
as the efficiency would be between 105-120db/1Watt/1m.
So before I started I hoped to find other familiy members who made experiences with that.
TAD horns are a bit like the Iwata, but only much smaller.
So you could imagine the sound in the midtange, right... :-)

So, if anybody in this world out there wants to tell me something about it,
let me hear... :-)

Regards and nice weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!! :bouncy: