rank the 43XX series for me in order of best most accurate sound

[jpw retired]

I was a JBL dealer back in the 70's but only for consumer product. Except for the 4311 I have had no experience with their pro models. So I'm curious. Does a 4350 automatically win because of it's size and number of drivers?What about the the other 43 models? This is just for fun but opinions would be welcome please.

[Mr. Widget]

I'll bite.
The comments below are for stock 43XX systems... if you take a 43XX and hot rod it with Be drivers, or modern woofers etc, that is cheating.

While I appreciate the badass look of the 4350/55 and am impressed with its ability to create audio shock and awe, I would rather own any one of a dozen or more other speakers before I took up that much real estate with the 4350/55.

I much prefer the 4345 and it would get my vote for best of the series.

I haven't heard any of the re-worked 4343 variants so I can't speak to those, but I would actually rather have the 4333A over the 4343 if for no other reason than it is smaller.

Now this is a cheat, but my favorite 43XX would be the 4365. It is not a true 43XX, but it was a damned fine speaker.


Widget

[jpw retired]

I'll bite.The comments below are for stock 43XX systems... if you take a 43XX and hot rod it with Be drivers, or modern woofers etc, that is cheating.While I appreciate the badass look of the 4350/55 and am impressed with its ability to create audio shock and awe, I would rather own any one of a dozen or more other speakers before I took up that much real estate with the 4350/55.I much prefer the 4345 and it would get my vote for best of the series.I haven't heard any of the re-worked 4343 variants so I can't speak to those, but I would actually rather have the 4333A over the 4343 if for no other reason than it is smaller.Now this is a cheat, but my favorite 43XX would be the 4365. It is not a true 43XX, but it was a damned fine speaker.WidgetThanks for playing along! It's hard not to be seduced by the 4 way 4345 with it's 18" woofer!

[BMWCCA]

You do realize that if you're really looking for "accurate" sound, the 44xx series would offer more candidates. 4410, 4412, even 4411 or 4410A and 4412A would offer what your asking. But...


Thanks for playing along! It's hard not to be seduced by the 4 way 4345 with it's 18" woofer!

It certainly was for me!

https://live.staticflickr.com/948/40109667160_04d93bd417_c.jpg

[Ian Mackenzie]

Does a 4350 automatically win because of its size and number of drivers?What about the the other 43 models? This is just for fun but opinions would be welcome please.

It was called the Texas Bookshelf back in the day for a reason. JBL wanted to make a statement that it was some sort of lab reference against which all others were judged. It was the biggest bad arse of all the 43XX legacy systems. I’ve heard several including a stock 4355 in a show room. It’s really not suitable to a lowboy profile sitting on the floor. Flown and inverted they project better. If played loud l am sure the 4350 would impress.

The latest 4367 is reputed to be very good.

The 4313B was one of my favourites as far as bookshelf systems are concerned.

Back in the 70’s the 4333A and the 4343B were top flight large home systems that performed well on a descent vinyl turntable like a Linn. Very few 4345’s were manufactured. But the 4343-4344 were exported by the thousands to Japan. They worshipped those systems like gods back then and they still do today care of KenRick Sound.

Carefully set with a mic and REW a cloned 4344 or a 4345 with really good signal path are hard to beat as a diy project. Others including Troels Gravesen have been inspired enough by the 4344 to design a four way system along similar lines using top pro drivers manufactured in Europe. His comment is it stands above any other top end hifi loudspeaker he has designed. Of course if you like a HiFi Sound and expensive towers with petite 6.5” drivers then this isn’t for you.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/The-Loudspeaker.htm

[jpw retired]

Ian,I have a set of 4367's currently which I bought as soon as they were available. At the same time I owned a pair of DD-67000's but had to sell them when I retired and moved to a house that had no room for them. I miss them although the 4367 is still very satisfying giving the big live sound large JBL's are noted for.Back in the 80's and early 90's I had a set of 4430's but had no access to the pro 43 series in the 70's which is why I posted my question. The 4430's seemed to be a little less colored than say a L-300 was but still had a lot of output. In regards to DIY speakers I bought a bunch of raw JBL drivers in the late 70's. I went with dual 136A's, a 375 with a 2397 (Smith) horn, a 077 tweeter and a 12" midrange/bass driver (I can't remember the model number). I think I was trying to replicate a 4350 but with the 2397 horn which I though might sound better. Looking back on it I really had no idea what I was doing but probably though that somehow I could design a better system using JBL parts than JBL could! I bi-amped them at around 300hz and used JBL's passive networks for the rest of the system. I put the woofers side by side in a huge vented box (probably 10-12 cubic feet) and built a separate box for the 12" midrange which sat on the woofer cabinet and then put the horns on top of it. It was loud and proud and spray painted flat black but I could never get the 12" midrange to sound right (it sounded boxy in the lower midrange) so I ended up setting it off to the side and using the system as a three way. It sounded pretty good this way. Ultimately I sold them to an acquaintance who ran a nightclub. I felt kind of bad for the speakers as they ended up pumping out endless disco music for most of their life. After reading with great interest all of the information about DIY speaker projects on this site I realize how little I really know. So it's probably best for me to stick with JBL's production product although I still dream about building another pair of custom JBL speakers. JohnEdit: I couldn't get my reply to make paragraphs which makes it hard to read. Sorry.

[Earl K]

Try the following:

:)

[toddalin]

I want to hear a pair of 4348s and am betting they would be right there at the top of the line. None of the prior ~10" would be competitive with the differential drive, neodymium 2251s used in these monitors and the 1500FE is no slouch.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=477067592304607

[jpw retired]

Try the following:

:)

Thanks. Hopefully those settings will allow spacing.

[Mr. Widget]

Thanks. Hopefully those settings will allow spacing.
They don't restore full functionality, but they help a lot!

Thanks Earl!


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Would be almost easier to write up in MS World and attach a screenshot

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi JPW,

Diverting to diy to respond to your post……
This post is about three short stories on my adventures building loudspeakers.

Introduction
I think we all enter diy loudspeaker building with the notion that we can design and build a better loudspeaker wth JBL components than JBL could. This is still the case with the number of pick your brain threads we see.

Story One
My earliest loudspeaker building excitement occurred when l was at high school in form three. I wasn’t great at woodworking. I would loose concentration. My attempt at dovetail joints was compromised by planing down 3/4 inch pine boards to less than 1/2 an inch. I guess l got carried away ankle deep in shavings Lol. The second box was made out of floor boards.

Story Two
Then a few years later after reading a JBL 4343 brochure repeatedly in my geography class at high school l decided l just had to build them. It was an interesting project with similarities to a Jules Verne novel.

The whole thing was shrouded in secrecy as l went around to each JBL Pro distributor in Melbourne and bought different 4343 components from each one. This was because they were purchased as replacement drivers.

2231A Zephyr Products
2121 Sound City
2420/2307/2308 Encel
2405 Dynasound

I was young, ambitious, smart and yes l lied. I actually became fairly proficient at it. Creating a diversion in a HiFi show room is an art while a friend measured the ports with my father’s tape measure. Then we would politely leave.

Though l did show some initiative when l wrote to JBL for the 4343 network schematic. Gary Margolis politely declined my request and suggested l consider an active crossover. The JBL 5234 network was too expensive at the time and so l came up with a schematic after reading the Martin Colloms HiFi Handbook. I trimmed the horn network by ear. There was a four position switched L pad using a Lorlin rotary switch.

Unfortunately the cheap low voltage bi polar electro caps in the mid range filter exploded during a party one night. I did bi amp it later. Subjectively nothing came close at the time. These days l design customer journeys & analyse customer experience analytics. On the Bain Net Promotor Score that project was actually fairly straightforward and low effort. There was no uncertainty or angst about getting it to work properly. The outcome was excellent. I was a happy customer.

Story Three
Then l had a relapse of the audio plague when l was about 40. I blame the longer term effects on the LHS forums…..Lol. What l learned during a mid life crisis was that building a clone is much easier than designing a loudspeaker by yourself using parts and an idea you don’t know much about. Trust me it just is.

Despite all the research and obsessions that it will work doesn’t always translate into something you want to listen to. But these days as an hobbyist being able to make measurements correctly after you listen carefully and then documenting your progress can shorten down the cycle of meeting your expectations. Otherwise why do it?

[jpw retired]

Hi JPW,

Diverting to diy to respond to your post……
This post is about three short stories on my adventures building loudspeakers.

Introduction
I think we all enter diy loudspeaker building with the notion that we can design and build a better loudspeaker wth JBL components than JBL could. This is still the case with the number of pick your brain threads we see.

Story One
My earliest loudspeaker building excitement occurred when l was at high school in form three. I wasn’t great at woodworking. I would loose concentration. My attempt at dovetail joints was compromised by planing down 3/4 inch pine boards to less than 1/2 an inch. I guess l got carried away ankle deep in shavings Lol. The second box was made out of floor boards.

Story Two
Then a few years later after reading a JBL 4343 brochure repeatedly in my geography class at high school l decided l just had to build them. It was an interesting project with similarities to a Jules Verne novel.

The whole thing was shrouded in secrecy as l went around to each JBL Pro distributor in Melbourne and bought different 4343 components from each one. This was because they were purchased as replacement drivers.

2231A Zephyr Products
2121 Sound City
2420/2307/2308 Encel
2405 Dynasound

I was young, ambitious, smart and yes l lied. I actually became fairly proficient at it. Creating a diversion in a HiFi show room is an art while a friend measured the ports with my father’s tape measure. Then we would politely leave.

Though l did show some initiative when l wrote to JBL for the 4343 network schematic. Gary Margolis politely declined my request and suggested l consider an active crossover. The JBL 5234 network was too expensive at the time and so l came up with a schematic after reading the Martin Colloms HiFi Handbook. I trimmed the horn network by ear. There was a four position switched L pad using a Lorlin rotary switch.

Unfortunately the cheap low voltage bi polar electro caps in the mid range filter exploded during a party one night. I did bi amp it later. Subjectively nothing came close at the time. These days l design customer journeys & analyse customer experience analytics. On the Bain Net Promotor Score that project was actually fairly straightforward and low effort. There was no uncertainty or angst about getting it to work properly. The outcome was excellent. I was a happy customer.

Story Three
Then l had a relapse of the audio plague when l was about 40. I blame the longer term effects on the LHS forums…..Lol. What l learned during a mid life crisis was that building a clone is much easier than designing a loudspeaker by yourself using parts and an idea you don’t know much about. Trust me it just is.

Despite all the research and obsessions that it will work doesn’t always translate into something you want to listen to. But these days as an hobbyist being able to make measurements correctly after you listen carefully and then documenting your progress can shorten down the cycle of meeting your expectations. Otherwise why do it?

Ian,

What a fun learning experience you have had with your hobby. Over the years I have read many of your posts and replies and it's clear you have amassed a great deal of knowledge. I would love to hear some of your design efforts if we weren't half a world away from each other (I live in Colorado and winter in Florida).

I was able to feed my obsession by owning my own hi-fi shops for about 45 years. It took up most of my spare time so I indulged myself buying and trying many dozens of different products over the years. Despite access to vaunted high end audiophile speaker brands I would always come back to large format JBL speakers for my most enjoyable sound. I'm a musician/guitarist used to being exposed to live amplified sound. Lesser dynamically capable speakers tend to make me yawn.

In the early 2000's I did decide to take another shot at building a JBL based system for myself using 2226 woofer, 2426/2344a midrange/horn and 2404 tweeter (the butt cheek horns). The next generation of JBL monitor parts after the 43xx series. I tri-amped it. It actually sounded pretty good and measured well above about 600hz and below 300hz. I had some peaks in the response probably from cabinet resonances in the 350-500hz range I never had time to resolve. They ended up in my rather large garage and impress friends I have over. My neighbors comment on them too (ha).

I would love to have a pristine set of 4343 or 4345's fall into my lap to compare with my 4367's. So if a pair were to pop up near where I live I might be tempted.

Building another DIY JBL still excites me. I have a neighbor with all the woodworking tools and skills to build something from well thought out plans. Getting raw JBL drivers these days is a pain as you can't just order most of them from JBL anymore. I'm not sure what the project would be. I used to have Everest's 67's and now regret selling them. Should have stored them in my basement.

John

[1audiohack]

Hi JPW;

Since Ian went in deep and it wasn’t frowned on by you, I will too.

When I was a kid we had a JBL shop in our town that had most of the 43XX series on the floor, not all at once but I did get to hear 4343’s, 4345’s and 4350’s and being young I wanted them all. I could not tell you at this point which I might have thought were the most accurate. They were dynamic as hell!

Later I acquired, in order, a pair of 4350’s, 4365’s, new, and 4333A’s. I also built a pair of kinda 4345’s. I made them 10 cubic feet based on something G Timbers said about the 2245.

For accuracy, like Widget said, the 4365’s win, but you are talking about vintage 43XX’s.

I found no real love for the 4333’s, no matter what I did. I revisit these from time to time and always just put them back in the barn.

The 4345 clones never had passive crossover components but I could never fill an energy gap, between the 2245 and 2123. That may show something missing in my integration chops. I revisit these from time to time and always just put them back away. No matter how well I can get them to measure, I am never happy with them.

My 3450’s are exactly what Widget describes as cheating. :) The first fix was replacing the 2202 with TAD 1201M graphite cone drivers. Screwed around with the compression drivers, everything from the original 2440’s through 2450’s with TruExtent beryllium and landed on NOS 2441’s as the winner with the 2405’s.

Then 1500AL woofers from the Everest family. Four way amplified with DSP. I love them. I still take them out and out back in the open and tweak on the DSP and they just get a little better each time.

I also have a pair of DD66000’s that have 67000 woofers and crossovers in them, also in the barn.

Ironically what wins in my living room is the 4365’s with ARRAY1500 subs. Go figure.

I also have the DIY itch and my loose plan is for some spare AL1500 woofs, 2251 mid woofers, 4338 horns with 2450Sl’s and 2405’s. Hopefully they will supply my dynamics itch.

Barry.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Barry,

That’s a wonderful story.

I recommend an LR 12 db 2nd order network @ 300 hertz. These particular networks are -6 db at the crossover point (acoustically in theory). The Q is about 0.50.

The big win is both drivers sum flat acoustically with revered electrical phase.

So what you actually hear is the summed response over a much wider crossover region than an BW 18 db filters or a LR 24 db filters. The transition is imperceptible in my experience.

Give it a try.

Edit. Only lightly fit the 2123 dog box with stuffing. In 14L it’s already a critically damped sealed enclosure. Adding a dog box full of stuffing behind the driver will over damp the low end and reduce the output.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Story Four - A Summary

The next story is the genesis. This involved settling on one three different mid high frequency arrays way back in the late 1990’s - early 2000’s.

audax mid cone+ 2420+ bi radial 2344
audax mid cone+ 2420+2397 horn+077 slot (with a converter- not ideal but it did worked)
audax mid cone +2420+2307/2308+077 slot

*The 2420 was fitted with a new JBL titanium diaphragm and tested.

I used both L+ R loudspeakers with a jig for each array. After weeks of comparisons l was vexed about which was the best? They were divergent in some respects. Not even a glass of red wine helped. Dang it.

Edit: The listening room in my rental was counter intuitive for the 2397 and the bi radial horn which lite the large flat walls up to much. Big 1st reflections made the sound stage seem bigger than it should have been. Hindsight can be a wonderful thing….Lol.

So l left it for a bit and went to some of my preferred shows. Jazz clubs, live venues and a few concerts. I quickly determined what l enjoyed the most. The catalyst for this was the seats l chose. Near the front. I also picked up recordings of these artists at the venues.

I like to feel immersed in the presentation. I need to hear and feel the impact of sounds.

Simply put l want to listen to my music that way. Sound that makes make you stop and look. I like the experience to get bigger as it gets louder. It sounds a bit old school like a Klipschorn demo doesn’t it…Lol. Very how’s the father in law?

I think developing your own criteria of what’s important to you early on is really important. My list of likes above allowed me to critically listen and determine which alternative translated the most of what l needed to enjoy my music. The specs don’t tell you how it will translate in your situation. The translation is what matters.

The room and how the system is set up can influence the accuracy of the translation. So can the signal path.

This also relevant buying a SH system, a new system or selecting what clone to build. The big advantage of building a system is you get to make your own hopefully informed choices.

In the end the audax mid cone +2420+2307/2308+077 slot was the preferred alternative. That combo delivered what was important to me in my circumstances. I found the 2397 wouldn’t integrate properly. The bi radial was too diffuse in my room.

This was the genesis for building a clone of the 4345. Technical information from Greg Timber’s was the 5th element which made it work correctly.

You could say l went full circle. I like circles.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Back on topic

When you buy a loudspeaker it’s built to a price or it could be out of your budget. It’s been designed to a criteria that may not necessarily meet all your preferences. It’s also voiced to meet certain market preferences that may not appeal to you.

Some systems are too detailed while others are light on in the bass. How do you fix that when you buy a loudspeaker? It ain’t easy. This is the challenge when you buy on face value without listening before the purchase decision.

The legacy 43XX were live sounding but does that means it’s not for you? No not necessarily.

Do you need a highly refined sound that can be clinical on less than perfect recordings? It can be a double edge sword on your music library.

In the 43XX range there is something for most people (excluding hifi buffs).

On high resolution drivers l prefer high resolving power components in the signal path with a tad less resolving power components in the loudspeaker.( excuse the pun)

A mediocre signal path (pro amps and 1970’s- 80’s HiFi classics) paired with high resolving components in the loudspeaker can be irritating. Its like not having a breather on the sewage from the Lav. When the last of it goes down it unfortunately gets sucked back up leaving an unpleasant odour.

But then again what you don’t know won’t hurt you will it. Forgive my Aussie humour….Lol.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I want to hear a pair of 4348s and am betting they would be right there at the top of the line. None of the prior ~10" would be competitive with the differential drive, neodymium 2251s used in these monitors and the 1500FE is no slouch.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/?v=477067592304607


I heard the 4348’s in Japan. I don’t know why but it didn’t seem to come together subjectively. I much preferred the 4338. The horn in that system is really nice.

Zilch had a set of those 4348 horns which l heard at his home way back in 2007 with the LHS CA gang. I vaguely recall it was a centre channel with 10 inch woofers. My recollection was it was good. Zilch was a really nice guy. His threads documenting his measurements were classics. It would drive Dale nuts who’s narrative was in strict lock step with the JBL way. I dearly miss Lancer and Miss Orchid. Rob had a crush on her…Lol

It was an interesting adventure from down under. I hired a van and on the way over the bay bridge my compact camera fell off the bench seat and slide under the foot brake…..Lol

[Ian Mackenzie]

To make the 43XX system comparisons more revealing I have attached a comparison of 4343 horn response and the 4344 horn with its upgraded compression driver. These response overlays are of the drivers only without the associated networks.

For clarity I have only shown the on axis and the horizontal 10 and 15 degrees off axis response.

The divisions are 5 db in 1 db increments so this is under the microscope.
Measurement with Leap LMS and Leap calibrated mic.
Smoothing applied for clarity.

Looking at the two overlays the 2426 compression driver is smoother overall. Of more interest is that the smoothest response is 15 degrees off axis. This coincides with the JBL recommendation of up to 15 degree toe in when setting up. Ref 4344mk2 owners manual. The problem area is around 3khertz and a small off axis response corrects this. The response extends out over 10 khertz on axis but falls in the off axis measurements. Not shown here but the 9.5 Khertz crossover point appears well chosen.

The LE85 response is less smooth and exhibits a more pronounced depression at 2.5khertz. It does extent out well above 10 khertz with a bump at 12 khertz. Not shown here the 8.5 hertz crossover point appears well chosen.

The networks serve to EQ these drivers to some extent and provide a bandpass filter to restrict the response.

I haven't shown any other drivers or diaphragms because the effect of a dusted diaphragm isn't obvious in an FR response measurement. I have seen that the ribbed JBL diaphragms have significantly more break up modes than the plane domes.

If anyone found this interesting let me know.

[1audiohack]

….If anyone found this interesting let me know.

I certainly do.

Thank you Ian.
Barry.

[jpw retired]

Hi JPW;

Since Ian went in deep and it wasn’t frowned on by you, I will too.

When I was a kid we had a JBL shop in our town that had most of the 43XX series on the floor, not all at once but I did get to hear 4343’s, 4345’s and 4350’s and being young I wanted them all. I could not tell you at this point which I might have thought were the most accurate. They were dynamic as hell!

Later I acquired, in order, a pair of 4350’s, 4365’s, new, and 4333A’s. I also built a pair of kinda 4345’s. I made them 10 cubic feet based on something G Timbers said about the 2245.

For accuracy, like Widget said, the 4365’s win, but you are talking about vintage 43XX’s.

I found no real love for the 4333’s, no matter what I did. I revisit these from time to time and always just put them back in the barn.

The 4345 clones never had passive crossover components but I could never fill an energy gap, between the 2245 and 2123. That may show something missing in my integration chops. I revisit these from time to time and always just put them back away. No matter how well I can get them to measure, I am never happy with them.

My 3450’s are exactly what Widget describes as cheating. :) The first fix was replacing the 2202 with TAD 1201M graphite cone drivers. Screwed around with the compression drivers, everything from the original 2440’s through 2450’s with TruExtent beryllium and landed on NOS 2441’s as the winner with the 2405’s.

Then 1500AL woofers from the Everest family. Four way amplified with DSP. I love them. I still take them out and out back in the open and tweak on the DSP and they just get a little better each time.

I also have a pair of DD66000’s that have 67000 woofers and crossovers in them, also in the barn.

Ironically what wins in my living room is the 4365’s with ARRAY1500 subs. Go figure.

I also have the DIY itch and my loose plan is for some spare AL1500 woofs, 2251 mid woofers, 4338 horns with 2450Sl’s and 2405’s. Hopefully they will supply my dynamics itch.

Barry.

What a great collection you have. It must be super fun to tinker with all of the alternatives at your disposal. John

[jpw retired]

To make the 43XX system comparisons more revealing I have attached a comparison of 4343 horn response and the 4344 horn with its upgraded compression driver. These response overlays are of the drivers only without the associated networks.

For clarity I have only shown the on axis and the horizontal 10 and 15 degrees off axis response.

The divisions are 5 db in 1 db increments so this is under the microscope.
Measurement with Leap LMS and Leap calibrated mic.
Smoothing applied for clarity.

Looking at the two overlays the 2426 compression driver is smoother overall. Of more interest is that the smoothest response is 15 degrees off axis. This coincides with the JBL recommendation of up to 15 degree toe in when setting up. Ref 4344mk2 owners manual. The problem area is around 3khertz and a small off axis response corrects this. The response extends out over 10 khertz on axis but falls in the off axis measurements. Not shown here but the 9.5 Khertz crossover point appears well chosen.

The LE85 response is less smooth and exhibits a more pronounced depression at 2.5khertz. It does extent out well above 10 khertz with a bump at 12 khertz. Not shown here the 8.5 hertz crossover point appears well chosen.

The networks serve to EQ these drivers to some extent and provide a bandpass filter to restrict the response.

I haven't shown any other drivers or diaphragms because the effect of a dusted diaphragm isn't obvious in an FR response measurement. I have seen that the ribbed JBL diaphragms have significantly more break up modes than the plane domes.

If anyone found this interesting let me know.

I sure do. At least I can understand frequency response curves!

[Ian Mackenzie]

In reality when you pick up a woofer how it works is actually quite simple. A coil of wire immersed in a magnetic field with an alternating current creates a force which drives the movement of a larger diaphragm in and out.

But getting it to play nice is a bit more complicated. The diaphragm, the suspension and the coil in the magnetic gap all have to be carefully engineered. Undamped resonances in the suspension and the diaphragm causes problems with sound quality. Harmonic distortion is primarily caused by variations in the inductance of the as it moves in and out of the magnetic field. Non linear distortion is caused by non symmetrical suspension and asymmetry in the magnetic field.

What most people don’t realise is that the coil of wire inside the driver absorbs nearly all the power created which can be expressed as voltage x current = watts. Nearly all direct radiators are only two percent or lower in efficiency. As a result the coil can increase in temperature to over 400 degrees in only 20 seconds.

What happens? The resistance of the coil increases very quickly and less force in created by the coil. Various techniques and coil designs including split voice coils spread the heat out along the length of the voice coil former.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Edit- l’ve added this article by Don.

It provides some valuable context on the relevance of accuracy and at what stage in the recording process accurate monitoring is required (mastering). Once you have read the article then apply that logic by association to your regular musical entertainment at home. Critically accurate monitoring at home is not how the recording engineer want you to enjoy it.

This logic supports my comments earlier that a highly transparent and resolving signal chain (including power amplifiers) should take precedence over highly accurate monitoring (and the associated high resolution drivers).

A step back from that edge delivers more consistent listening enjoyment on an emotional level while still kicking your personal big ticket must have’s that l discussed earlier. These are your own individual likes.

I know l sound like l’m harping but many people suffer the disassociation ( or confusion) of sound quality and emotional enjoyment with absolute accuracy. They are different things. It can be the road to hell when in fact it’s all about listening to the music, not the equipment.


Studio Monitor Evolution and Use - Don McRichie
https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?3747-Studio-Monitor-Evolution-and-Use


INSIDE THE STUDIO MONITOR
https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/inside-monitor/page01.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/inside-monitor/page02.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/inside-monitor/page03.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/inside-monitor/page04.jpg

Requirements for
Studio Monitoring

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/monitoring/page01.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/monitoring/page02.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/monitoring/page03.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/monitoring/page04.jpg


THE ACOUSTICAL LENS
By GEORGE L. AUGSPURGER
Operation and performance of various types
of devices used professionally and in home
hi-fi speaker systems to disperse and shape
sound energy from horn-type driver units.

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/lens/page01.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/lens/page02.jpg

https://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/reference/technical/lens/page03.jpg


The above links are excellent reading for a more formal and objective understanding of JBL’s philosophy behind the legacy 43XX systems. There are many facets to the design considerations behind each system. The author also calls out a few home truths that are equally applicable to the use of these systems in domestic situations which covers most of us here today. Notable of these call outs are are the application of uniformly distributed sound absorption for even reverberation times so that an equalised response is in agreement with the subjective assessment.

Included are some useful graphics comparing system FR and distortion curves.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Studio Monitor Reference Chart

[Ian Mackenzie]

43XX profiles

[Ian Mackenzie]

Addition 43XX specifications

[Ian Mackenzie]

Additionally technical data on the 43XX systems

[Ian Mackenzie]

Additionally technical data on the 43XX systems

[Robh3606]

Looks like we have a winner!! One nice system 4313.

Rob :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Rob,

Absolutely.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Btw l’ve added links above to some interesting reference material. The article by Don is a great segway that unfolds in the other links.

It’s not a “l told you so post” but a balcony view of what are monitors and how are they really used?

Heck l might yet build up a pair of diy Century Classics for everyday use. No they won’t have titanium metal dome mids and tweeters. (I have a pair of 1200H gold woofers)

[Ian Mackenzie]

The contemporary blue baffle 43XX systems (if you can buy them)

[Ian Mackenzie]

The contemporary blue baffle 43XX systems (Barry’s pick)

[toddalin]

The contemporary blue baffle 43XX systems (if you can buy them)

I would have thought that they could have done better on the 4348. They needed to bring up the 2251 a bit and my modified Heil is a whole lot smoother than the horn/tweeter combo.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I would have thought that they could have done better on the 4348. They needed to bring up the 2251 a bit and my modified Heil is a whole lot smoother than the horn/tweeter combo.

If you go into the reference forum / systems there are a number of curves under the 4348 to assess. As l have said repeatedly the curves aren’t the whole story.

I do recall hearing the 4338 and the 4348 in Japan including the S9800. Other forum members have also heard them. In further discussions via Giskard it was understood from Greg Timbers that these contemporary blue baffle systems were targeted for the SE Asia region and their listening preferences. On the one hand they like thump tinkle tinkle version of legacy 43XX while the more conservative high end listeners of the region are aligned to a far more HiFi presentation (of the S9800, the M9500 and so on). Then there are the older stick in the mud listeners who are die hard JBL legacy systems followers. Nelson Pass has reiterated similar sentiments. That local area market is a melting pot for everything hifi and audio. Aspects of this situation can be seen in KenRick Sounds approach to re inventing the legacy systems. I have heard one of the re imagined 4345 systems and it’s different. Does that make it wrong? No not for everyone. This is the narrative l have been posting in 2024. And what’s done in the sound recording process is not a blue print for any of the consumer HiFi or Hi End markets either. (Refer to Don McRitchie’s article in the link l posted). Big HiFi brands like Kef, B&W and Tannoy to name a few are all out their beating their own drum too.




As l have said there is no one right loudspeaker system for everyone on the planet.

[Ian Mackenzie]

You know l have heard people at the HiFi club moan after going to a classical concert and saying that was disappointing it sounds better at home. It’s largely all about that on an individual level.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The thing to get your head around so you can make sense of it is that JBL have moved their goal posts in order to be commercially successful in consumer markets.

Traditionally JBL have used their pro credentials to sell into the consumer markets like the 4311. Referring to the Inside the Studio Monitor link above JBL illustrates efficiency versus LF bandwidth.

In there they refer to a 12 inch woofer having the same bandwidth as the equivalent 15 inch version only less output and a bit less efficient. That has changed in JBL’s approach to meeting the preferences of some specific regional and local area markets like Japan and SE Asia. The 15 inch woofers are more efficient in similar or somewhat smaller sized enclosures to the 4333. So they have given up some LF bandwidth for a more dynamic output. JBL mentions in the document that bandwidth to 30 hertz is often quite unnecessary and can impact on the overall dynamic performance of a system. So they slide the bandwidth marker up a bit in their contemporary 15 inch blue baffle systems in exchange for a more efficient and therefore dynamic system in a similar size enclosure.

JBL refer to the lowest key on a grand piano at about 30 hertz. On a bass guitar it’s about 41 hertz. The argument is how often do you need to reproduce 30 hertz? It actually makes a lot of sense.

JBL’s marketing department knows this so they up the ante to suit the preferences of these markets in the hope of generating sales. The devil is in the details on how JBL specify the woofers and tune the enclosure. But if you imported one of those systems it will confuse you like WTF. I have heard this said about the 4344mk11. The answer is bring on those 1500 subs. That then normalises your historical listening preferences.

[jpw retired]

Ian, Thanks for a pretty coherent and comprehensive look back at the 43xx series. I wish I could go back and time and by some of these audio works of art. John

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi John,

Cool. You can always put together a clone of one of the 43Xx systems with some patience and some help.

Below l have outlined the JBL Pro 43XX series along side the Consumer systems with an overall timeline. You have to reason that the kinds of monitors offered later on with the 4200, 4400 and the LSR series were in response to changes in how the broadcast and recording industries evolved over time.

In some of the consumer system literature JBL make comparison to direct monitor counterparts as in a flat response. I have noted this on the document.

* There could be the odd typo as it was a detailed task to go through a number of catalogues and product brochures in the JBL Library.

There is much information in the JBL Library to enjoy and admire from so many contributors.

Don’s product and people profiles also shed a lot of light on developments that drove the business historically. I think JBL were lucky to have Don and Steve Schell write up the history of the business. The people who worked at JBL then were what made it so successful.

[BMWCCA]

Cool comparison.
But why "L96?" and not the L112 which is the direct consumer version of the 4411, is it not?

[Robh3606]

Think you have a 4401 as well.

Rob :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

L112 and 4411 baffle layout

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi John,


In some of the consumer system literature JBL make comparison to direct monitor counterparts as in a flat response. I have noted this on the document.

* There could be the odd typo as it was a detailed task to go through a number of catalogues and product brochures in the JBL Library.



Hi BMWCCA,

Well I looked into your question. Please read the above post and acknowledge that you understand it instead of wasting my valuable time. None of this is like putting a rabbit out of a hat.

The L112 is not the consumer version of the 4411. It never was an it never will be.

1. The L112 mid driver is the LE5-9, the 4411 mid driver is the LE5-12
2. The L112 network is the N112 schematic, the 4411 network is the N3109
3. The L 112 baffle layout is different the the 4411 baffle layout.

The point of the chart was not about the pro and consumer counterparts. I only noticed that in reading the actual literature. This thread is not about consumer systems.

There are a number of newer 43XX systems like the 4349 that haven’t covered yet.

Edit refer to the attached PDF

Google search LE5 Matrix. its easy to find https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?5706-The-LE5-Matrix

[BMWCCA]

Well I looked into your question. Your are incorrect.

My references in the chart based on JBL's statements on their brochure on direct equivalents.

The L112 is not the consumer version of the 4411.

1. The L112 mid driver is the LE5-9, the 4411 mid driver is the LE5-12
2. The L112 network is the N112 schematic, the 4411 network is the N3109
3. The L 112 baffle layout is different the the 4411 baffle layout.
Not meaning to waste your valuable time, but you are wrong:

Picking nits? Then why does the L96 get a mention (albeit with a ? ), when in fact the only professional monitor to use the 044 tweeter is the 4411?

Mid-range differences seem to be edge-wound copper versus round copper, with the L112 getting the edge-wound. Same mid-range and tweeter are also used in the L96. In fact the JBL Studio Monitor charts do show the 4411 used the same LE5-9, as did the 4313 and 4313b.

If the requirement is for JBL to have made the comparison in its literature, then we'd also have to discount when Zilch referred to the L40t3 as the "secret equivalent to the 4408" when the tech sheets use a different part number for both networks.

I appreciate the time put in to this list/chart, but I'm still confused why if the L96 rates a "?" as the 4313b (?) equivalent, why the 4411/L112 isn't even a more obvious equivalent when they share the EXACT driver complement. I don't see any literature where the L96 is connected to the studio monitor heritage, either.

Inquiring minds just want to know!
Thanks.
:thmbsup:

[Robh3606]

It's not as simple as it looks after the 70's. The 4401 and 4411 came out after their consumer counter parts if the catalogs are complete.

The 096 is not a 4313 wrong tweeter.

The LT3 and Lt series vs 4408-4412 uses the same drivers in some but not all cases and is fixed no L-Pads so different networks as a minimum.

The 6332 would be an L100 Century Gold not sure about crossovers or drivers definite frame changes and tweeter.

In the 70's in many cases they were clones after that it gets blurred. Blurred as in an L212 is related to 4315 but not the same.


Rob :)

[jpw retired]

Hi John,

Cool. You can always put together a clone of one of the 43Xx systems with some patience and some help.

Below l have outlined the JBL Pro 43XX series along side the Consumer systems with an overall timeline. You have to reason that the kinds of monitors offered later on with the 4200, 4400 and the LSR series were in response to changes in how the broadcast and recording industries evolved over time.

In some of the consumer system literature JBL make comparison to direct monitor counterparts as in a flat response. I have noted this on the document.

* There could be the odd typo as it was a detailed task to go through a number of catalogues and product brochures in the JBL Library.

There is much information in the JBL Library to enjoy and admire from so many contributors.

Don’s product and people profiles also shed a lot of light on developments that drove the business historically. I think JBL were lucky to have Don and Steve Schell write up the history of the business. The people who worked at JBL then were what made it so successful.

Your chart was very useful to me. I was a JBL dealer only in the 70's and then again in the 2000's so there are many models I am unfamiliar with. But I did own and enjoy a pair of 4430's through out the 80's and early 90's.

[jpw retired]

Ian, Thanks for a pretty coherent and comprehensive look back at the 43xx series. I wish I could go back and time and by some of these audio works of art. John

Edit: In the interest of not appearing totally uneducated, in the second sentence by should be spelled buy.

[Robh3606]

Hello Ian

Why don't you just reference the LE5 Matrix on the site??? It just repeated content. There is nothing new here.


https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?5706-The-LE5-Matrix


Rob :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi John,

Thanks. I plan to prepare a more elaborate chart on a spreadsheet.

If l get the chance to travel to the USA again it would be fun to catch up with you. There are a few LHS members located near Denver. I recall catching up with John Nebel back in 2004 who as it turns out knows Bo Putnam over in SF. If you do a Google search of the 4345 plans it’s was Bo holding the tape measure across the baffle after l asked him for the dimensions. That was 20 years so. I’ve been back several times to CA. Despite the LAX airport queues l don’t mind LA. The Denver airport is way better.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Edit: In the interest of not appearing totally uneducated, in the second sentence by should be spelled buy.


No worries.

I will be adding a new table with some particularly relevant data on the 43XX series for users and clone builders.
This
The notion that everyone knows or should know specifics about these things is BS. They don’t as witnessed in this thread. The situation on the LHS is quite fragmented as far as locating information. Even then it might not be accurate.

[jpw retired]

No worries.

I will be adding a new table with some particularly relevant data on the 43XX series for users and clone builders.
This
The notion that everyone knows or should know specifics about these things is BS. They don’t as witnessed in this thread. The situation on the LHS is quite fragmented as far as locating information. Even then it might not be accurate.

Good idea. Perhaps then discussion will winnow out any remaining confusion or errors, if any. Plus it will be convenient!

[toddalin]

No worries.

I will be adding a new table with some particularly relevant data on the 43XX series for users and clone builders.
This
The notion that everyone knows or should know specifics about these things is BS. They don’t as witnessed in this thread. The situation on the LHS is quite fragmented as far as locating information. Even then it might not be accurate.

There was so much information that has now been lost.

I wish someone could recover this one that included most of the popular old crossover network schematics.

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Network%20Schematics.html

[Robh3606]

There was so much information that has now been lost.

I wish someone could recover this one that included most of the popular old crossover network schematics.

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Network%20Schematics.html

I have a complete list as does Heather. When Don left the scene he gave me the entire exhibit library and a bit more. I shared this with Heather so there is not as much lost as you think. Probably more people as well have additional info.

We also have complete set of service manual discs JBL and Urei.

If you need a particular schematic put up a post.

You can also do this and query at the JBL Service Document Portal Posted in the Technical Sticky Thread in 2021

Search Discontinued in the drop down menu.

You can download what you select and have the option to download all of them.

I just did all and it worked fine,

https://assets.harman.com/portals/wokfvf2u/JBLProfessionalParts?__hstc=145240107.cdf42c7532b7 8e15428ca09c028dda51.1706208853724.1706208853724.1 706208853724.1&__hssc=145240107.4.1706208853724&__hsfp=1135167407


Not all are there but some are.

Rob :)

[toddalin]

I have a complete list as does Heather. When Don left the scene he gave me the entire exhibit library and a bit more. I shared this with Heather so there is not as much lost as you think. Probably more people as well have additional info.

We also have complete set of service manual discs JBL and Urei.

If you need a particular schematic put up a post.

You can also do this and query at the JBL Service Document Portal Posted in the Technical Sticky Thread in 2021 Search Discontinued in the drop down menu.

https://assets.harman.com/portals/wokfvf2u/JBLProfessionalParts?__hstc=145240107.cdf42c7532b7 8e15428ca09c028dda51.1706208853724.1706208853724.1 706208853724.1&__hssc=145240107.4.1706208853724&__hsfp=1135167407



Not all are there but some are.

Rob :)

Thanks. I marked the page. But it does not seem to include the document that I was alluding too.

[Robh3606]

Thanks. I marked the page. But it does not seem to include the document that I was alluding too.

I have been updating my post search discontinued.

Rob :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

There was so much information that has now been lost.

I wish someone could recover this one that included most of the popular old crossover network schematics.

http://www.jblproservice.com/navigation/Network%20Schematics.html


I agree.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Good idea. Perhaps then discussion will winnow out any remaining confusion or errors, if any. Plus it will be convenient!

Yes it is. The convenience is the key. That’s where l was heading and it could have been moved into a reference thread. But there are personalities, politics, pre conceived ideas that resist change or new ideas and approaches. The organisation then is at war with itself. Without change nothing and l mean nothing survives. Change can be improvements or evolution.

Example
The there are other charts, product lists but they are not necessarily from a particularly useful perspective or a specific user perspective. More importantly users don’t use them because they either don’t work or they are unaware of them or they don’t answer their specific questions?

https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10661-JBL-Consumer-Tech-Sheet-Links

For example there are three iterations of the L65 and each as a different woofer and a different network. But to find that out you have to look in each of the files. Another example is the L200 that causes confusion. In an enquiry thread (thousands of them) the same questions, the same confusion, debates and in some cases disagreements occur because the user doesn’t have convenient access to accurate information.

As it is there are a few stickys, lots of roads with information along the way buried in threads that can only be read sequentially and they don’t link to other relevant aspects of a topic for completeness. So if you’re searching for a complete list of what you need to know it’s very inefficient. Adding insult to injury a new member who is invested in the hobby can’t register to ask questions? How crazy is that? Or they stopped it. Do they (the owners or administrators) care? If they did they would have addressed this a long time ago. Instead they have sat back, passed the blame on Samsung or the fade has passed, or we have what we want now or some other excuse.

This may seem harsh or matter of fact but it is what it is. A smart man doesn’t suffer fools gladly and he moves on. Fortunately other interest groups, forums other websites exist that attempt to meet user needs. These alternatives are alive because people are being helped by other like minded people who want to make it work.

[Mr. Widget]

Adding insult to injury a new member who is invested in the hobby can’t register to ask questions? How crazy is that?Hey Ian,

Here is an out of the box suggestion. Since this forum is obviously broken and may be irreparable, why don't you start a new JBL or Audio forum? You could post links from here to to get new members, and post links from the new forum to relevant threads or posts here.

You would be doing a lot of people a huge service and you could capture and preserve a lot of this specialized JBL data that is nowhere else. Since you are retired you might have the time required to manage it... and you could certainly get people to help manage the new forum.


Widget

[Robh3606]

Do they (the owners or administrators) care? If they did they would have addressed this a long time ago. Instead they have sat back, passed the blame on Samsung or the fade has passed, or we have what we want now or some other excuse.

Hello Ian

Just to add to Widgets post. Do the Admins care???

Lets see the forum has been broken since before I put up the Library Annex back in 2009 when we could no longer add to the Library.

I stopped adding because I saw it as pointless until it was fixed. Never happened. Beyond my control.

So it's been broken say about the last 15 years, since then we have been slowly loosing more and more over time.

I can't even say how much time Widget spent trying to manage new users before he was no longer able to do so. Beyond his control.

And then we have Heather who I think has Admin privileges but won't even show in here profile who is also committed to try and keep things going.

Over that time we have continued to answer questions and provide help when we could and moderate as time permitted trying to work within the limitations and resources we had available.

If we didn't care do you think we would still be here??? If you are frustrated as a user, with no responsibilities beyond that, how do you think we feel???

Rob

[BMWCCA]

Gentlemen, and Gentlewoman, thank you all for the good work you do here. It is not unappreciated.

:applaud:

[DerekTheGreat]

Indeed. Thanks to you guys I've made new friends and fueled my audio & JBL addiction. :cheers:

[hjames]

Just to clarify. Yes, I have "some" admin privileges, but, for instance, an AK member recently asked me to fix their account here since they could no longer log in. Even tho we can see some of their older posts here, they cannot log in.

I logged in as Admin yesterday, but when I searched they don't seem to be in the current User list here (!), so there is nothing to "fix" so they can log in again. I suspect some of that may be database issues, but I don't know or have access that deep into the workings of the site. I know its vBulletin ver 4.x, but there are some heavy hacks that added in many "side-sites" within the Lansing Forum. Lots of static pages built with MS Frontpage for the historical archives.

I don't have any contacts to the hosting company/folks or server side access like I do for the Wordpress sites I manage for a couple simple non-profits here in Virginia (Our church and another), then again, I don't know the insides of vBulletin 4.x or the XenForo software that AK uses.

Frankly, a migration to XenForo would be the best approach, to get both sites on the same system, but since the Lansing Forum is not working right in the first place, it'll be a huge mess/project. I was not an Mod at AK when they did their software update a few years ago, but it was up and down numerous times over that summer as they fine tuned it and figured out all the add-ins that make a forum manageable.

And yes, I care a lot - I have fond memories of this site and would love to get it back to tiptop shape as a robust resource!

And AK is a handful too - AK's Grumpy is still in recovery from a serious health issue, tho he's doing better now, and I am in contact with Mrs Grumpy ...



Hello Ian

Just to add to Widgets post. Do the Admins care???

Lets see the forum has been broken since before I put up the Library Annex back in 2009 when we could no longer add to the Library.

I stopped adding because I saw it as pointless until it was fixed. Never happened. Beyond my control.

So it's been broken say about the last 15 years, since then we have been slowly loosing more and more over time.

I can't even say how much time Widget spent trying to manage new users before he was no longer able to do so. Beyond his control.

And then we have Heather who I think has Admin privileges but won't even show in here profile who is also committed to try and keep things going.

Over that time we have continued to answer questions and provide help when we could and moderate as time permitted trying to work within the limitations and resources we had available.

If we didn't care do you think we would still be here??? If you are frustrated as a user, with no responsibilities beyond that, how do you think we feel???

Rob

[jpw retired]

Gentlemen, and Gentlewoman, thank you all for the good work you do here. It is not unappreciated.

:applaud:

I ABSOLUTELY ECHO THIS THOUGHT. Imperfect the LH site might be it still is the best source of information there is far and away.

I jokingly refer to myself as Brother Fredo when it comes to my levels of computer skills but I do have some spare time if there is away for me to help.
I should add I know nothing about webpage design or administration so I'm not sure what I could do. John

[hjames]

And in all honesty, the details of running the Lansing site ought to be in a discussion thread with a more limited audience
(like Project May used to be) rather than in a public post like it is now.

... much as I love the big 4-ways discussion.

[Robh3606]

Hello Heather

OK we can keep any future discussion under wraps in the Admin Forum. Just making a point.

Rob :)

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hey Ian,

Here is an out of the box suggestion. Since this forum is obviously broken and may be irreparable, why don't you start a new JBL or Audio forum? You could post links from here to to get new members, and post links from the new forum to relevant threads or posts here.

You would be doing a lot of people a huge service and you could capture and preserve a lot of this specialized JBL data that is nowhere else. Since you are retired you might have the time required to manage it... and you could certainly get people to help manage the new forum.


Widget

Hi Widget,

Yes that’s a great 👍 idea.

To those interested in the diy situation if you have a suggestion to meet your needs either Pm me or send an email in my signature below.

Ian

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hi Heather and Robert.

I appreciate your posts. It’s not as easy as it sounds. I get it. I do remember meeting Anne and John back in 2004. There was a lot of resourcing behind it. I would probably employ a specialist to set up the frame work.

I don’t want to dive into any details at this point but l think the format will be different as in a far more efficient way of serving an individual’s diy information needs, gaps in understanding and implementation at the diy level.

There are pedestrians and those looking for entertainment too. That can be addressed.

[discus96]

I love the 43xx series.In my opinion the 4355 is the most accurate speaker and the one I like to listen to, more.In the same room I also have the 4345 but in my opinion the bass out of the double 2235H is far better than the one from the 2245H.There is more punch and control.I do have also the 4343 which I prefer to the 4345 as more balanced.Very personal but the 4345 is sub par to 4350/55 and 4343.I also have the 4333 which is a fine speaker but its limit is that is monoamp.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thank you for sharing. Thats a very nice set up.

[DerekTheGreat]

Indeed. Hot damn.

[rusty jefferson]

Nice collection! Thanks for sharing.

What is that wall covering/paneling in your room? It appears to have perforations in areas? Very attractive surface, is it an acoustic treatment?

[1audiohack]

Hello Discus!

I see that you have both 4350’s and 4355’s. I have 4350’s and have swapped crossovers and components as to make mine 4355’s in 4350 enclosures. I have never had the opportunity to hear both in short periods of time for rapid comparison.

May I ask how you perceive them differently?

Thank you Discus.
Barry.

[Mr. Widget]

I love the collection and am most impressed with your custom rolling stands... very nice solution!

Interesting feedback on the twin 2235 vs the 2245 bottom end comparisons. With your rolling stands you can "easily" move the speakers around for a better comparison. Most of us if we have been lucky enough to hear these systems we have only heard them in different rooms or at different times.

Hell of a collection, I see you have the M2s in your collection... I think you need to add a pair of K2-S9900s and a pair of DD67000s. :D


Widget

[discus96]

Nice collection! Thanks for sharing. What is that wall covering/paneling in your room? It appears to have perforations in areas? Very attractive surface, is it an acoustic treatment?Yes the whole room is acustically treated, these are commercial perforated wood panels mounted 8 inc from the concrete walls and attatched to the concrete wall there is also 3 inch acustic wool. some of those panels are perforated and some are not. if all would be perfirated the room would be too sound dead.There are free hanging steel perforated wave panels also on the ceiling.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Better bark it up this weekend!

[discus96]

Hello Discus! I see that you have both 4350’s and 4355’s. I have 4350’s and have swapped crossovers and components as to make mine 4355’s in 4350 enclosures. I have never had the opportunity to hear both in short periods of time for rapid comparison. May I ask how you perceive them differently? Thank you Discus. Barry.If I have to be completely sincere, they sond very very similar, the 4355 can handle little bit more power due to the 2235H and different tubes, two large tubes instead than 6 smaller. What i really appreciare in the 4355 is the three eq knobs vs a single one on the 4350A, but I doubt I can recognize one from the other!

[discus96]

I love the collection and am most impressed with your custom rolling stands... very nice solution!Interesting feedback on the twin 2235 vs the 2245 bottom end comparisons. With your rolling stands you can "easily" move the speakers around for a better comparison. Most of us if we have been lucky enough to hear these systems we have only heard them in different rooms or at different times.Hell of a collection, I see you have the M2s in your collection... I think you need to add a pair of K2-S9900s and a pair of DD67000s. :DWidget The rolling stands make playing and swapping very easy, now every single speaker in my collection has been supplied with that.The M2 are great speakers thanks to the tech evolution and to the digital tech into the Crown I- Tech with BSS digital dsp.I wanted to campare the old Dinasours with the New Technology.M2. are really fantastic, sound impressive. less directivity. BUT......"They have no Soul"the 43xx. series have that!

[rusty jefferson]

Yes the whole room is acustically treated, these are commercial perforated wood panels mounted 8 inc from the concrete walls and attatched to the concrete wall there is also 3 inch acustic wool. some of those panels are perforated and some are not. if all would be perfirated the room would be too sound dead.There are free hanging steel perforated wave panels also on the ceiling.
Beautifully done. I'd love to hear that room.

[1audiohack]

Hello Discus;

My experience is somewhat similar. I thought the 2440 that drops off hard at about 9.5kHz left the 2405 a lot to do when listening loud. Moving to the 2441 with no signal shaping, it extends out to about 16kHz and while making it a bit more difficult to integrate the 2405 , the 4355 sounded more relaxed and a bit more dynamic on top with the 2441 doing the majority of the work.

I appreciate your reply.

I hope you get to enjoy your JBL collection for a good long time. :)

Oh yeah, as far as the M2’s being a great speaker minus the soul is spot on to my experience. A good balanced reference though for sure.

Barry.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The rolling stands make playing and swapping very easy, now every single speaker in my collection has been supplied with that.The M2 are great speakers thanks to the tech evolution and to the digital tech into the Crown I- Tech with BSS digital dsp.I wanted to campare the old Dinasours with the New Technology.M2. are really fantastic, sound impressive. less directivity. BUT......"They have no Soul"the 43xx. series have that!


Hello Discus,

I concur on your comments comparing the M2 and the 43XX. Our Japanese audio friends are mad about the 43XX for good reason then. I want to try and design a custom analogue active crossover with Jfets for the M2 to see if some of that soul can be recovered. (Delay is possible with a 3rd order Bessel all pass filter).

[jpw retired]

I love the 43xx series.In my opinion the 4355 is the most accurate speaker and the one I like to listen to, more.In the same room I also have the 4345 but in my opinion the bass out of the double 2235H is far better than the one from the 2245H.There is more punch and control.I do have also the 4343 which I prefer to the 4345 as more balanced.Very personal but the 4345 is sub par to 4350/55 and 4343.I also have the 4333 which is a fine speaker but its limit is that is monoamp.

Thanks for your input. And what a great collection you have. I noticed your custom stands with wheels. Nice practical touch for moving them around for comparison.