Is home HIFI dead ???

[jblguy]

I rarely run into anyone anymore that seems to care about actual quality sound. Everybody just tells me of their "sound bar" and how great it sounds.
Ya they have muddled 2 channel audio into home theater crap. Sad eh? The glorious days of "stereo sound " seems dead mostly. I don't know how the few high end shops survive really.
Music just doesn't sound the same through a theater system to me. I love my mono center channel in my main setup though. It's a true left and right mono channel. Set just slightly lower in volume than the left and right sides. Makes a room filling soundstage. Highly recommend a center channel. The whole system just becomes better imo. My system sounds full and still has that stereo effect.
Anybody else use a center mono channel?

[Robh3606]

Not at my house! I get what you mean though. Some do, don't know how old you are. When I was a junior in high school there were 5 brick and mortar stores I could bring a record down to and they would cue it up. Those days are long gone and frankly if a sound bar is all you have ever heard??? It's all about what you have been exposed too.

Rob :)

[Riley Casey]

I'm continually amused by young people who tout the superiority of vinyl and then play their new records thru their Sonos glorified table radios.

[Mr. Widget]

I rarely run into anyone anymore that seems to care about actual quality sound. Yep, very few folks these days care about quality. Their loss I guess. The hobby isn't dead, there are tons of videos on YouTube of people sharing their systems, but that is not like dropping by a buddy's house to hear his latest album purchase.


Music just doesn't sound the same through a theater system to me.
Agreed, even the million dollar plus home theaters I've been in don't sound as good as a really nice two channel system. For movies or filmed concerts they are stunning, but for the "close your eyes" listening to a favorite tune... not so much.


I love my mono center channel in my main setup though. It's a true left and right mono channel. Set just slightly lower in volume than the left and right sides. Makes a room filling soundstage. Highly recommend a center channel. The whole system just becomes better imo. My system sounds full and still has that stereo effect.
Anybody else use a center mono channel?If your speakers are very far apart, or you are not able to sit in the proper location in an equilateral triangle, a center channel can be helpful, but in general I don't think it is beneficial.


Widget

[grumpy]

If your speakers are very far apart...

For sure.

Played with one of these (old link below) for awhile, back when I was actively fooling with a fixed-corner-placement K-brand LCR setup.
Studios dropped the hardware for cheap when the software version came out.
Was quite effective. Adding a small amount of delay to the center helped (image 'tuning' and easing ) as well,
effectively pushing the center channel back to the same radial distance from the listening position as the LR units
(at least that's where it sounded better to me ).

Got to be too complicated to bother with (also EQd), they pop a bit more than most equipment on turn-on, and the power supplies finally quit... :blah:

http://www.agmdigital.com/page3/page35/

Was a fun experiment though and getting the processing and delay right was worthwhile :)

[Robh3606]

If your speakers are very far apart, or you are not able to sit in the proper location in an equilateral triangle, a center channel can be helpful, but in general I don't think it is beneficial.


Widget

Hello Widget

Have you ever listened to a movie mix with no L/R?? Just Center and rears?? Try it.

Rob :)

[Mr. Widget]

Hello Widget

Have you ever listened to a movie mix with no L/R?? Just Center and rears?? Try it. I have. The results vary widely depending on the mix. Sometimes you only get dialog with ambient sounds coming through the surrounds. In other mixes it is more complete. I have done the reverse too. A L,R plus surround mix without the center can be completely unintelligible or sound vaguely normal. I think this is not to the point of JBLguy's original post though. I believe he was talking about having a summed or mono center to help fill in with a primarily 2 channel system.

Also partially off topic, I recently had to replace my car and the only sound system that is available in the car I wanted is designed by our friends in Northridge. It is called a Harman/Kardon Premium Audio system. They boast about it being a 9 speaker plus sub 480watt system. On paper it sounds great! It has a 5 band graphic EQ, a series of preset EQs, subwoofer integration etc.

In reality the best I could get out of it was, pretty poor sound. This system appears to have been designed by bean counters and marketing types and no one from engineering ever gave it a proper audition. That said, after living with it for awhile and exploring all of the settings, I found that getting out of stereo and putting it in surround mode gave me the best sound. This drives the vocals through the front center channel and most of the instruments, left and right with crowd noise and other slightly out of phase content appearing in the rear. Whoever engineered their surround synthesizer has developed an impressive algorithm. The sub is still very Bose like and the system isn't something I would brag about, but at least it stopped pissing me off.


Widget

[jblguy]

I have. The results vary widely depending on the mix. Sometimes you only get dialog with ambient sounds coming through the surrounds. In other mixes it is more complete. I have done the reverse too. A L,R plus surround mix without the center can be completely unintelligible or sound vaguely normal. I think this is not to the point of JBLguy's original post though. I believe he was talking about having a summed or mono center to help fill in with a primarily 2 channel system.


Widget
Yes I was referring to your comment on the 2 channels setup. If I turn it off I find the system just not as nice to listen to. It doesn't over power but adds some sort of soundstage thingy that seem more coherent. I dunno I'm terrible a trying to describe this sort of thing.
It defiantly turned lower than the left and right are. Rather hard to hear actually. But fils in the middle.
Here's a pic. The center is a 3 way. That's a stage accompany Ribbon tweeter in this pics in three spots. One for each channel.
90654

[jblguy]

The box is an EV Eliminator with an EV 15 inch in it. The 2360 horn has a JBL 2485 Driver on it. As they all do. So all phenolic drivers for that low mid range. I like them very much. The plates have 2440's on them.
They are all time aligned to the voice coils.
IMO the Stage Accompany Ribbon is an amazing driver in itself. 2000watts....like WTH
They sound great and are nuts efficient. at 107Db at a watt. 1k to 30k
A good match for such efficient mid horns and drivers.

[jblguy]

90655906569065790658

[Ed Kreamer]

Colleagues

Several subjects here;

Is home Hi-Fi dead

No. Not yet. I do think that It has been in a long torpor, and is just beginning to wake up.

Muti-channel audio, I think that there is a music genre component here. How many of us are classical music listeners? I am. and I am a concert goer also. a center channel can fill the hole in the middle that 2 channel can leave empty.

But much depends on the gear and speakers. I run 3 4410's across the front and am using an H/K AVR 354 receiver. I find that multi channel discs give a convincing playback of the concert hall experience, and that Dolby PLx II does a

decent job of "hole filling" to 2 channel recordings. I've run 3 channel for years, beginning when I was using a McIntosh C-26, with the derived center, and that was 1974 I think.

[jblguy]

Colleagues

Several subjects here;

Is home Hi-Fi dead

No. Not yet. I do think that It has been in a long torpor, and is just beginning to wake up.

Muti-channel audio, I think that there is a music genre component here. How many of us are classical music listeners? I am. and I am a concert goer also. a center channel can fill the hole in the middle that 2 channel can leave empty.

But much depends on the gear and speakers. I run 3 4410's across the front and am using an H/K AVR 354 receiver. I find that multi channel discs give a convincing playback of the concert hall experience, and that Dolby PLx II does a

decent job of "hole filling" to 2 channel recordings. I've run 3 channel for years, beginning when I was using a McIntosh C-26, with the derived center, and that was 1974 I think.
Yes overall I prefer it in the system than without the center channel. No hole is correct. Unfortunately I'm not quite on center of the system where I sit. I'm about 2 feet over so the center channel helps that a lot.
When you turn the center gain up or down you can instantly can tell by ear where it should be. Too loud and it sounds not right. Too low and you simply don't hear it. When you hit the spot that works it just is obvious really. By ear is all that is needed on the level for sure. I time aligned it too.

[jblguy]

Colleagues

Several subjects here;

Is home Hi-Fi dead

No. Not yet. I do think that It has been in a long torpor, and is just beginning to wake up.

Muti-channel audio, I think that there is a music genre component here. How many of us are classical music listeners? I am. and I am a concert goer also. a center channel can fill the hole in the middle that 2 channel can leave empty.

But much depends on the gear and speakers. I run 3 4410's across the front and am using an H/K AVR 354 receiver. I find that multi channel discs give a convincing playback of the concert hall experience, and that Dolby PLx II does a

decent job of "hole filling" to 2 channel recordings. I've run 3 channel for years, beginning when I was using a McIntosh C-26, with the derived center, and that was 1974 I think.
Until I built it and heard it I never knew what I was missing. I think it was in the klipsch publication papers (The Dope From Hope ) that Paul Klipsch toats it as necessary. I'd really have to check that memory though. But I heard it somewhere.
Anybody else read that Dope From hope stuff?

[Mr. Widget]

That is quite a system you have there... pretty much, "the more is more" approach!


Until I built it and heard it I never knew what I was missing. I think it was in the klipsch publication papers (The Dope From Hope ) that Paul Klipsch toats it as necessary. I'd really have to check that memory though. But I heard it somewhere.
Anybody else read that Dope From hope stuff?Yep I remember Paul Klipsch recommending a wiring scheme to create a "mono" signal from a stereo signal... and for several years I had a McIntosh C28 with a mono center out.

I am a big fan of Paul Klipsch and his work. I still have copies of some of the Dope From Hope flyers and I read his biography that was published in 2002. I have owned most of the Klipsch classics at one time or another. Heresy, Cornwall, LaScala, and a pair of Klipschorns. Decades ago before I could afford the real deal, I built Belle Klipsch clones. I really respect these vintage Klipsch systems, but I could never get any of them to fully satisfy me from an audio standpoint.

I still have a pair of the K-400 horns and matching alnico drivers that came out of a pair of La Scalas that were originally at Radio City Music Hall. A friend salvaged them for me. One day I hope to make an "interesting" system with these horns.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

I’m a bit more circumspect.

It depends if your a front row or a back row concert goer. Anyways how often have you heard some old fuck yelling out. “l can’t hear it Wilma”. “How many times have l told ya turn your on hearing aid on Fred”. “Huh can’t hear you”.

Back in the rear rows tiny plastic rear mounted speakers in the seats with made in China on a sticker improve the intelligibility for poverty stricken folks over the munchies….Lol

Who can remember the Quadraphonic SQ decoders? Those unique mm cartridges back in the day. 4 track reel to reel recordings.

I recall a Sony demo that was quite convincing. It just goes to prove with all this modern digital stuff it’s all been done before and in many cases more authentically.

[jblguy]

That is quite a system you have there... pretty much, "the more is more" approach!

Yep I remember Paul Klipsch recommending a wiring scheme to create a "mono" signal from a stereo signal... and for several years I had a McIntosh C28 with a mono center out.

I am a big fan of Paul Klipsch and his work. I still have copies of some of the Dope From Hope flyers and I read his biography that was published in 2002. I have owned most of the Klipsch classics at one time or another. Heresy, Cornwall, LaScala, and a pair of Klipschorns. Decades ago before I could afford the real deal, I built Belle Klipsch clones. I really respect these vintage Klipsch systems, but I could never get any of them to fully satisfy me from an audio standpoint.

I still have a pair of the K-400 horns and matching alnico drivers that came out of a pair of La Scalas that were originally at Radio City Music Hall. A friend salvaged them for me. One day I hope to make an "interesting" system with these horns.


Widget
OMG you just reminded me that I built that circuit way back then. As I recall it was simple. I still have the little grey box I mounted it in. I was surprised by the fact it was dead quite. Surprised with myself that is that it worked...lol. I was 19 I think. I actually don't recall what I used it on back then. I had a pair of A7's back then. But I don't remember having a center channel. So why did i make that box now...hmmmm. But I did make that box as it's in my collection of gear still....ah memories. I'm gonna dig it out now that I'm thinking of it.
Yes it was from the Dope From hope papers. I still have the pile of them in a binder form. I'll snap a pic when I find them.

[jblguy]

That is quite a system you have there... pretty much, "the more is more" approach!


Widget
I've got an overload room with all my unused gear sorta stuff. Stuff I can't seem to part with. Stuff I rather treasure still. Stuff that was hard to find and easy to love. Speakers I mean
So it's all setup as what I call the wall of sound. Now this is not a serious system at all. It was just a fun way to use stuff I didn't need in my other systems. But stuff I want to use still.
This stuff...and yes it's all playing at once and sounds quite good for some strange reason. It shouldn't but it does.
It's a bizarre mix
2 tar filled Altec 1505's with Tad 4002 drivers
2 JBL 500 potato mashers with JBL 2440 drivers on them
2 JBL Baby Cheeks with 2425 drivers
2 EV HR6040 horns with EV DH1012A's
2 Vitavox Corner horn cabs with Beyma 15's
2 Pioneer slant plate horns (fairly rare) with JBL 175 drivers.
2 Electro voice sm120A with Ev 1824 drivers
2 Electro voice ST350 tweeters
1 Fatman 18 inch corner horn very very loud down to 18hz 108DB @ 1 watt
2 EV 30W Woofers
4 Tad 15 inch woofers TL 1603's
2 JBL 12inch coaxials 2152H's
2 Giant Emylar 4 inch throat horns...NO DRIVERS....just hanging there for show to scare children away.....ha
Thats it....lol
They all play too....yes insanity is a possibility

[Ducatista47]

Two channel SQ is not quite as obscure as some make it out to be. Understandable for a speaker-centric site, but millions of the users of personal listening enjoy great sound. It is not always cheap earbuds and an iPhone.

In the past most hifi shops carried both speakers and headphones, and it was not difficult to find customers who were wary of headphone demos because it would ruin the perception of SQ for the pricey speakers. A fifty dollar pair of headphones in the 1960s would bury the sq of thousand dollar speakers. Now both cost more, but the math still holds. A CD quality streaming service coupled with decent headphones or in ear monitors is giving countless users phenomenal listening experiences every day. I find it rather easy to find younger music fans who care very much about quality. They are just not into "stereos" in the baby boomer sense. But they are passionate about music and about it sounding great.

It makes sense that personal listening's intimacy has won over most newer listeners. Whenever I experience communal listening people end up talking over the music at some point. No thanks. To a passionate listener that is a buzzkill. I might as well refer to my older post about this type of listening.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?42973-The-current-reason-we-are-audio-dinosaurs

[Ed Kreamer]

In response to Ian's post;

You're right about concert venue. I try to sit 10-12 rows back, as close to the center as I can afford. That way I can hear the orchestra and the hall. Seattle has a great concert hall and here in Tacoma, not so good. Even so, I have found that with the addition of a center channel does fill the hole, and widens the sweet spot. It also depends on the recording. many classical recordings from the past were recorded in 3 channel, and many today are multi channel recordings. both Talarc and Reference Records have releases in multi channel.
I also do have THE CHAIR, but I like to have my best beloved next to me on the small sofa.

As far as some noisy waste of protoplasm chewing on cheezits, that generally doesn't happen in classical music. But what does happpen is that some schlub's cell phone goes off during a quiet part
of a piece. And I do remember listening parties (......Hey come over and listen to my new speakers! You bring the beer.....) Sony SQ, and slide rules.

Ed

[Ian Mackenzie]

Putting it all in perspective if you in fact set up your two channel system properly within the equilateral triangle l personally don’t experience a hole. It’s not an easy thing to set up properly with precise level matching and absolute symmetry. Even with a multi way system the effect is an immersive experience for me. That is dictated to a degree by the way the stereophonic recording is produced and mixed.

Do l prefer listening at home? It depends on what’s on in town. But with the worlds longest lockdown in Melbourne the concert hall was closed in recent times. I am more drawn to the authenticity of that live music in the shopping mall experience. To me it’s about “tone” and the visceral acoustic presence of a musical instrument that causes the emotional connection.

IMHO the centre’s function is dialogue in movies. I have only heard a centre reproduce a musical sound via a JBL LS centre speaker with a $7,000 Acram receiver at home. Acram is part of the Harman Group. That thing was a less is more approach according to my industry connection. It was big jump on the SQ of your typical wonder box.

[Ed Kreamer]

What kind of music do you listen too, Ian?

[jblguy]

Putting it all in perspective if you in fact set up your two channel system properly within the equilateral triangle l personally don’t experience a hole. It’s not an easy thing to set up properly with precise level matching and absolute symmetry. Even with a multi way system the effect is an immersive experience for me. That is dictated to a degree by the way the stereophonic recording is produced and mixed.

Do l prefer listening at home? It depends on what’s on in town. But with the worlds longest lockdown in Melbourne the concert hall was closed in recent times. I am more drawn to the authenticity of that live music in the shopping mall experience. To me it’s about “tone” and the visceral acoustic presence of a musical instrument that causes the emotional connection.

IMHO the centre’s function is dialogue in movies. I have only heard a centre reproduce a musical sound via a JBL LS centre speaker with a $7,000 Acram receiver at home. Acram is part of the Harman Group. That thing was a less is more approach according to my industry connection. It was big jump on the SQ of your typical wonder box.
I sure don't know much about live classical sound. But most of the club or concert or theater gigs I went to were not just simple stereo.
Our local "big theater" place which is quite nice and has a lot of Altec horns and drivers. They do have a center setup in that place too.
Or at other places the band always has speakers and amp setup across the stage usually. So the sound stage to me always seems pretty wide. I've never really seen live music presented as pure stereo. Sometime obviously, they only have a couple of pole speakers but that's not the scenario I mean. For instance is a big rock concert stereo? I don't honestly know that.
I do know that the center channel just seems to round out the stage better for me. Turned at the exact perfect level as I think Ian mentioned.

[Ian Mackenzie]

What kind of music do you listen too, Ian?

All sorts. Classic rock, blue grass, metal, southern blues, jazz, opera. I often listen to Miles Davis or sometimes Neil Young. I have a reasonable classical vinyl collection.

If your into vinyl there are some excellent real analogue pressings out of Berlin. It comes down to the recording. I had the pleasure of listening to some amateur recordings on mini disk once. It was an eye opener to hear a relatively un compressed or processed live concert.

One of Greg’s old clients in HK a retired banker does his own recordings on a studer reel to reel. Pretty cool stuff.

I come back to Greg’s comments about the shopping centre experience. For me sun rises and sets on the unmistakable sound of live musical instruments.

[Ed Kreamer]

Further thoughts on center channel;

I think that a dedicated center channel for music is largely dependent on the recording being played back, and the speakers being used. As I stated earlier I have 3 identical speakers for the front, so there is no discrepancy in
Loudspeaker characteristics. also my front channel is 60 degree angle between left and right with the center at 0 degrees from the listening position. I use a love seat style sofa ( not my Eames style chair) so that my wife can sit right beside me as I think that listening should be a team sport. So that is my set up, as close to optimal as I can get it in our smallish MCM house.

I find that on 2 channel recordings the difference can be minimal to definite depending on the recording. On Multichannel recordings (SACD and blueray) what I'm looking for is there, Violins spread from left to center, woods and violas center,and brass and basses center to right.

I recently had to be in Bellevue (Wa) for some business and since I was there visited a High End audio store. I had taken one of my SACDs. I was surprised to hear that the consultant hadn't heard a multichannel classical recording. I was somewhat vindicated that he found that the recording that I had brought, made the playback fill in what is normally missing in 2 channel classical recordings.

In his book, Floyd Toole makes a comment that recording companies should list the recording methods and the engineers, layout and etc. Kudos to Telarc for doing so.

Well, there it is colleagues, that's my story and I'm sticking too it.

Except for one last thing;
Ian if you are running M2's, all bets are off.

Ed

[Mr. Widget]

My 2 cents on a center channel for both 2 channels and surround:

I think the audience position is the most important factor. If there is a single listener who sits in the sweet spot, as long as your system doesn't suck, you should have a pretty solid center image. Alternatively if the audience is larger or the primary listening position is not in the sweet spot, then a dedicated center channel speaker can be very helpful.


Widget

[speakerdave]

My 2 cents on a center channel for both 2 channels and surround:

I think the audience position is the most important factor. If there is a single listener who sits in the sweet spot, as long as your system doesn't suck, you should have a pretty solid center image. Alternatively if the audience is larger or the primary listening position is not in the sweet spot, then a dedicated center channel speaker can be very helpful.


Widget

This is it. As I recall, PK's suggestion of a center channel was originally made for those whose K-horns were in corners at such a distance that the optimum 60 degree angle at the listening position was not possible.

[Mr. Widget]

This is it. As I recall, PK's suggestion of a center channel was originally made for those whose K-horns were in corners at such a distance that the optimum 60 degree angle at the listening position was not possible.Yep, a special case, but one that is probably fairly common for corner loaded speakers.

For those who want a deeper dive into the fundamentals of stereo, here is a particularly deep dive that is quite good: https://www.stereophile.com/content/stereo-image


Widget

[BMWCCA]

This is it. As I recall, PK's suggestion of a center channel was originally made for those whose K-horns were in corners at such a distance that the optimum 60 degree angle at the listening position was not possible.
To which PWK himself would likely have said "Bullsh*t" ;)

[speakerdave]

To which PWK himself would likely have said "Bullsh*t" ;)

Really? Why?

[Robh3606]

This is it. As I recall, PK's suggestion of a center channel was originally made for those whose K-horns were in corners at such a distance that the optimum 60 degree angle at the listening position was not possible.

Yes there was consideration of a third center channel. Have you ever listened to the old Living Presence mixes that were recorded with a third center channel from the 50's?? There were released on SACD years back and it sounds much better/fuller and much more spacious than the plain stereo versions.

Rob :)

[speakerdave]

Yes there was consideration of a third center channel. Have you ever listened to the old Living Presence mixes that were recorded with a third center channel from the 50's?? There were released on SACD years back and it sounds much better/fuller and much more spacious than the plain stereo versions.

Rob :)

Haven't tried that, though I think I have a couple of those discs.

I wonder if a derived center channel works as well.

Do you use an HT set up for that? And, do you play all three channels the same sound pressure level?

[Robh3606]

Haven't tried that, though I think I have a couple of those discs.

I wonder if a derived center channel works as well.

Do you use an HT set up for that? And, do you play all three channels the same sound pressure level?

I played it in my HT and yes they are all calibrated to the same level.

Rob :)

[BMWCCA]

Really? Why?
If it wasn't his idea, that was his response. Not unlike Elon Musk.

https://klipsch.imgix.net/product-images/BS_Button.jpg?auto=format&crop=focalpoint&domain=klipsch.imgix.net&fit=crop&fp-x=0.5&fp-y=0.5&h=2000&ixlib=php-3.3.1&q=82&w=2000
https://www.klipsch.com/products/klipsch-official-bull-button

[Robh3606]

Go to 1957


https://www.klipsch.com/klipsch-milestones


Rob :)

[speakerdave]

So I guess "bullshit" is the polite word for "Heresy"? Still confused here.

[Robh3606]

So I guess "bullshit" is the polite word for "Heresy"? Still confused here.


About?? Assuming the site is correct it's the right time frame for the 3 channel recordings I believe. It make sense especially if the horns were on the long/longish wall. The more separation the further back you would have to go to maintain the correct angles. This would anchor the image and would get a wide soundstage which is what you get when you listen on an HT system listening to those 3 channel recordings.

Rob :)

[speakerdave]

Reverie alert!!

I kinda had a pair of K-horns at one time. I'd found one with EV drivers that was very very good, 15WK, T350 and a re-entry midhorn with a big alnico driver. I enjoyed it immensely in mono with a pas2 and a Mark III. Paired it with a minimalist utility K-horn type with absolutely no dress-up cabinetry. Worked OK. That was my introduction to really dynamic speakers. Somebody talked me out of those. Then I turned up a two-woofer Heathkit Legato. It was my van speaker awhile 'til someone helped carry it up the stairs to my flat. I was listening in mono again and didn't care.

It was the '70's. It was San Francisco. It was always spring.

[speakerdave]

Re 3 channel and Klipsch: I just remember seeing a photo or graphic with a Belle Klipsch as the center channel between two K-horns. An upsell, I guess. That's how deep I got into it.

[Mr. Widget]

I too was confused by the Bull comment.

PWK was famous for suffering no fools and happy to call out that which he didn’t agree with and had those buttons printed up, but the Bullshit reference to the three channel configuration confused me since PWK was a proponent of it.

I could see him handing out the buttons at the AES during a presentation by Amar Bose, but not about a mono center.


Widget

[BMWCCA]

Anyone wishing to try out the center-channel idea on their Klipsch system, I have a lovely vintage Short-Horn that would make a nice center channel.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52129511555_94c84710cc_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52129014851_a8e49f7f79_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52129511515_b9281ab1b4_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52127992092_c6919037e8_k.jpg

[jblguy]

Anyone wishing to try out the center-channel idea on their Klipsch system, I have a lovely vintage Short-Horn that would make a nice center channel.
What a lovely piece of history. Loved the dates on the tag. Thanks for showing us that speaker.Thus also proving that they used EV speakers for while. Well at least they look like Ev drivers. Is that the EV mark in the woofer cone center?
How's it sound all these years later?

[BMWCCA]

What a lovely piece of history. Loved the dates on the tag. Thanks for showing us that speaker.Thus also proving that they used EV speakers for while. Well at least they look like Ev drivers. Is that the EV mark in the woofer cone center?
How's it sound all these years later?
It sounds so-so. Everything's working but then I've had a JBL 030 system in my home for over 65-years, so my standards are a bit higher. Tried for some time to find someone who loves Klipsch as much as I love JBL to take this on, including two local Klipsch dealers. We weren't even talking money and they had no interest. I believe these are shots I took through the back but I'm not sure why I can't find a photo of the other horn driver. The EV 15W is the woofer. Can't really remember. Yes, that's the EV logo on the woofer dome. In beautiful condition for their age.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52130046560_500267c15e_k.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/52129791509_dbcefdce70_k.jpg

[Mr. Widget]

That is a beauty if not the last word in sonic excellence.

Surprising you can't find a Klipsch fan out there especially since they are in such great shape considering their age.
If you posted it on the Klipsch Forum (https://community.klipsch.com) I bet you'd find a taker.


Widget

[BMWCCA]

That is a beauty if not the last word in sonic excellence.

Surprising you can't find a Klipsch fan out there especially since they are in such great shape considering their age.
If you posted it on the Klipsch Forum (https://community.klipsch.com) I bet you'd find a taker.Thanks for the suggestion. I did that years ago. 2016, to be exact, after someone there saw my ad for a bunch of stuff on Audiokarma.
Here's a link with even more pics: https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/162351-1956-klipsch-shorthorn-va/

There were quite a few of them around at that time, including some pairs.

Also listed it on USAudioMart around that same time. I'm not really trying hard but it belongs to a friend who lost his home in foreclosure and I was just trying to help him out by taking in a bunch of his stuff. I sold a Marantz Model 1060 amp and Yamaha CR-2020 for him, both in perfect shape, and gave him 100% of the take. Amazingly the buyer for the Marantz didn't want the matching tuner also in a beautiful wood case and in original boxes. He still needs money and I still have the stuff I saved. That's the long story of the Shorthorn. ;)

[jblguy]

What a shame but not surprising to me. Stuff is harder to sell nowadays.
The NEW generation knows nothing of these early speakers nor do they care. Who's JBL, Altec, Ev etc to them?
The sad thing is we are a dying breed here really. The world has moved on from the stuff we all love. Unfortunately the great speakers of the past are just not many folks cup of tea. What we consider valuable most folks find objectionable. VERY few folks want the sort of speakers many of us have here. Sad but true. IMO most of us will have a hard time selling or even passing on some of this fine equipment.
Home audio may not be dead but it sure isn't running many laps down at the track anymore.
as we've discussed elsewhere here sound bars and HT are what folks want now.
Not big old wooden antique looking boxes in their modern homes.

[speakerdave]

A build for the Klipsch Shorthorn is detailed in Badmaeif and Davis pp 111-13. Very simple. Through a one-inch slot, which also tunes the enclosure, it feeds a horn formed by the sides of the cabinet and the corner of the room. At 10 1/2 inches the front projection hole is undersized but also recommended for 15" or 18" woofers.

[Mr. Widget]

What a shame but not surprising to me. Stuff is harder to sell nowadays.
The NEW generation knows nothing of these early speakers nor do they care. Who's JBL, Altec, Ev etc to them?
The sad thing is we are a dying breed here really. The world has moved on from the stuff we all love. Unfortunately the great speakers of the past are just not many folks cup of tea. What we consider valuable most folks find objectionable. VERY few folks want the sort of speakers many of us have here. Sad but true. IMO most of us will have a hard time selling or even passing on some of this fine equipment.
Home audio may not be dead but it sure isn't running many laps down at the track anymore.
as we've discussed elsewhere here sound bars and HT are what folks want now.
Not big old wooden antique looking boxes in their modern homes.Sort of... there is still a demand for the outrageously cool. Here is a local hipster coffee house. They have a pair of very nicely restored A-5 bass bins with 805B sectorial horns. These are not your kid's bluetooth wonders.


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[jblguy]

Isn't that cool! I wonder how it sounds in there with all those hard echo-y looking surfaces. Have you been in there? Did you hear it?
Make ya wonder if it influenced anybody to find out what those are.
Do they have the big Altec stickers on the sides? I can't really tell from the pics. Hopefully they do. The mighty "Voice of the Theater !
Has anybody else seen any retro speakers in establishments anywhere. Sadly for me the answer is "no"
A outdoor football stadium in Kitchener still has big altec Multi cell horns hanging way up on poles. They have been there and outside for at least 50 years. Winters and all. I can't believe they would still work. But yet they don't take them down either.
You don't see many multicelled horns anywhere around here anymore.

[Odd]

Has anybody else seen any retro speakers in establishments anywhere?

You will find photos here (https://www.google.no/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi0.wp.com%2Fjazz-kissa.jp%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F09%2Fbasie8-1.jpg%3Fresize%3D736%252C505%26ssl%3D1&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Ftheaudiofeast.com%2Fblog%2 Fbasie-jazz-cafe-in-japan-legendary-jbl-system&tbnid=mIIhuIbzUXJvuM&vet=12ahUKEwim0oTBt574AhWMg84BHVQ5BSsQMygCegUIARDA AQ..i&docid=eo3gUYM6Ho0GaM&w=736&h=505&q=jbl%20in%20Japan%20bar&ved=2ahUKEwim0oTBt574AhWMg84BHVQ5BSsQMygCegUIARDAA Q).

And here (https://www.google.no/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fthumbor%2FtBA7AjCOukEMYzRDHMnC8opOw1w%3D %2F1400x1050%2Ffilters%3Aformat(jpeg)%2Fcdn.vox-cdn.com%2Fuploads%2Fchorus_asset%2Ffile%2F16684842 %2Fimage2.jpeg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.eater.com%2F2019%2F7%2 F3%2F18662000%2Flistening-bars-tokyo-japan-photos-decor-hifi-cafes-design&tbnid=y_KJffasOASNJM&vet=12ahUKEwim0oTBt574AhWMg84BHVQ5BSsQMygIegUIARDM AQ..i&docid=7E-ATE2xV2933M&w=1400&h=1050&q=jbl%20in%20Japan%20bar&ved=2ahUKEwim0oTBt574AhWMg84BHVQ5BSsQMygIegUIARDMA Q).

[rusty jefferson]

:) Now, I wouldn't say "hipster" coffee bar. Those folks look pretty clean cut and well dressed. I don't see any lumberjack beards, plaid wool shirts, or anyone carrying a fixed gear bicycle.

I imagine any volume above a whisper from that system would be annoying. Actually, I imagine it's hard to place an order with the Barista if it's crowded in there.

[Mr. Widget]

I have spent a fair amount of time here… the beverages and treats are awesome… the room’s acoustics are predictably rough, but the Altecs sound fine at background music levels.

I am sure these speakers were chosen entirely for aesthetic reasons. The same millennials who buy a lot of vinyl and have turntables in their systems and have tube headphone amps are driving the decisions here. Some may cite audio performance, but I imagine aesthetics are the real motivators.


Widget

[jblguy]

Oh cool....ya gotta have the stickers. Sweet
I'm sure they get a lot of attention. They are rather obvious visually and sonically. I love that look.

[1audiohack]

There is a place like Widget portrays in Portland Oregon who’s owner has been after me to buy my RCA9462 Ubangi’s for their space.

While it would be cool to see them in use in public again I just can’t part with them.

Barry.

[man00]

Where I live there just no higher end shops anymore. So no place to go to listen and look

[DerekTheGreat]

Looks like a lot of aging hipsters in that place, probably where the motivation to have the old gear came from. In the words of Dr. Evil, "There's nothing worse than an aging hipster."

[Mr. Widget]

Looks like a lot of aging hipsters in that place, probably where the motivation to have the old gear came from. In the words of Dr. Evil, "There's nothing worse than an aging hipster."When I am there, the age demographic bumps up… the average age depends on the time of day. There is a high school across the street and at times clusters of kids pop in. Overall the clientele is pretty diverse.


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[jblguy]

Not that I've been but in Japan they have some cool listening places. With some cool big ass speakers stuffed into small rooms. Like a small bar or lounge I believe.
They still appreciate high end and vintage there more than here.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Not that I've been but in Japan they have some cool listening places. With some cool big ass speakers stuffed into small rooms. Like a small bar or lounge I believe.
They still appreciate high end and vintage there more than here.

Hi jBL Guy,


I like your humour and your right.

Way back in normal normal 2008 I spent two weeks in JP with our friend Steve K who guided me around the HiFi mafia of Electric City.
Most of the evenings were spent embracing something close to the most pure alcohol but we did sneak in some jBL time.

One bar we visited was old school with barely room to move. On the bar they had a pair of Pass Aleph 2's. A match made in heaven pumping 140 watts of glorious SE power through a pair of gorgeous 4343's soffit mounted. It was all vinyl and really cool Jazz being played back then. Verbal speaking was forbidden....An amazing experience. No chatting.

To sum it up they know their music and they know their hifi. If you think you've got you head around hifi or the high end in the USA that's cool. We all have our journey that's for sure.

But its all about style if you've got deep enough pockets. I visited several high rise hifi establishments while in the hifi district and its not uncommon for the President of Toyota apparently to arrive in a convey and spend several hours listening to a system with the whole top three floors to himself and then raising his eye brows. The transaction is done.

An important decision. No waf to be considered.

It's a whole different level of understanding to appreciate what hifi means to them. It's deeply embraced in symbolism and its spiritual. They worship their sound systems. I do too and so do you and this is why a JBL system is the peak of the mountain to them. Keep improving the 4343's as JBL did.... both in the USA and in Japan and it reaches the peak of their mountain. That's what JBL did. A decade later the S9800 arrived. Greg Timbers was their god without any doubt. Greg had their absolute true which is a really big deal in the Japanese culture.

Back down on planet earth you can make any system sing within reason if your put the effort in for long enough.

Unfortunately, in recent times those bar's have declined because things change. It's pretty sad. And that is why when someone NEW turns ups up HERE and no matter how crazy their ideas are I try and help them because they are the future of this legacy. Isn't that our cause? No question is too difficult. At the start we all knew nothing. Fuck all.

It's not about you and its not about me. It's about nurturing the next generation and the generation after that. What's the big difference with JBL? Why? And helping fulfil their experience with JBL. Their journey might take 20 years just like it did yours and mine and then they will pass on what they've learn't and experienced.

[Ian Mackenzie]

What a shame but not surprising to me. Stuff is harder to sell nowadays.
The NEW generation knows nothing of these early speakers nor do they care. Who's JBL, Altec, Ev etc to them?
The sad thing is we are a dying breed here really. The world has moved on from the stuff we all love. Unfortunately the great speakers of the past are just not many folks cup of tea. What we consider valuable most folks find objectionable. VERY few folks want the sort of speakers many of us have here. Sad but true. IMO most of us will have a hard time selling or even passing on some of this fine equipment.
Home audio may not be dead but it sure isn't running many laps down at the track anymore.
as we've discussed elsewhere here sound bars and HT are what folks want now.
Not big old wooden antique looking boxes in their modern homes.

I agree perception is 9/10 of reality. But it’s a fools paradise to generalise over an opinion based on an opinion.

Hifi loudspeakers have been getting smaller for decades but it’s not a 100% market case study.
There are retro players in the market like Peachtree Audio and Klipsch who are very very successful.

Take a snap shot of the Gen x Gen x and Millenials.

They move out into an apartment and are lifestyle seekers. Small or compact is good.

Then they eventually rent a larger home or buy an apartment and start a family. It’s from the mid 30’s with that better job and a dual income that the dude starts to explore his Man toys.

HT fits in the bucket list some where too.

By the time he hits his early 40’s he’s actively seeking out the real deal. That incidentally was most of us 20-25 years ago. Given your 1% rich there’s a big market for how to have your cake without it costing a fortune = diy and then you have JBL. Dynaco did it, Hafler did and Pass has popularised diy.

There’s still a lot to be had from 40 year old drivers. Just ask Ken Haerr.

If it was me l’d be resurrecting Zilch’s econwave or looking at Rob’s excellent work in JBL vtx wave guides. Stick a 2118 in a compact enclosure with a vtx wave guide and pair it with a sub and it’s the entry point for a diy new comer.

Talking shit to death doesn’t change anything. You need to act.

[jblguy]

Very good and right on comments Ian. You have much more experience world wide than I do for sure.
Yes here in our town the new construction is of some pretty big houses. Nuts prices too. Anyway to cut to the chase. These larger homes must be hard to fill. I mean how many great rooms and HT rooms does one need? some of these homes are massive. Stupid big imo. What does one do in all that house?
Anyway I think to myself as I see these behemoths wouldn't these folks like some crazy nice sound systems to fill at least one room in there?
Obviously they have some substantial monies to build a house like that. And after you do all the usual stuff in there, what's left? A great music system seems appropriate. They must have a least one great room left to do that in ....lol.
I always wondered if there was not some kind of market for really big and awesome setups in these homes. I mean if you own several nice cars and all the other toys, get a big ass stereo system to go along with it. Impress all those you're already trying to impress with such a stupid big house. If I had a house that big I'd bet you for certain that I'd rarely even visit or go in some of those rooms. I'm only one guy and a wife. Some of these homes are so big they make no sense to me as a home to live in. They must be big cold places.
So I thought if these folks saw some really nice setup they might bite.
But as we all know high end shops are not as plentiful as they once were. I guess you'd eat your shirt trying to run one these days. Or are we in a time of such great wealth (for some) that maybe it would work? These houses exist so somebody has the money to buy what they want.
I'd love to have a store show casing the best of the best to see if anybody bites. Ya right eh? Sometimes though folks don't buy until they see it for the first time.
Some just don't understand what is possible in sound. Once they hear it maybe they will be more open to better sound.
Somebody out there is still buying high end as evidenced by some of the companies that exist making crazy nice and expensive gear.

[jblguy]

Hi jBL Guy,


I like your humour and your right.

Way back in normal normal 2008 I spent two weeks in JP with our friend Steve K who guided me around the HiFi mafia of Electric City.
Most of the evenings were spent embracing something close to the most pure alcohol but we did sneak in some jBL time.

One bar we visited was old school with barely room to move. On the bar they had a pair of Pass Aleph 2's. A match made in heaven pumping 140 watts of glorious SE power through a pair of gorgeous 4343's soffit mounted. It was all vinyl and really cool Jazz being played back then. Verbal speaking was forbidden....An amazing experience. No chatting.

To sum it up they know their music and they know their hifi. If you think you've got you head around hifi or the high end in the USA that's cool. We all have our journey that's for sure.

But its all about style if you've got deep enough pockets. I visited several high rise hifi establishments while in the hifi district and its not uncommon for the President of Toyota apparently to arrive in a convey and spend several hours listening to a system with the whole top three floors to himself and then raising his eye brows. The transaction is done.

An important decision. No waf to be considered.

It's a whole different level of understanding to appreciate what hifi means to them. It's deeply embraced in symbolism and its spiritual. They worship their sound systems. I do too and so do you and this is why a JBL system is the peak of the mountain to them. Keep improving the 4343's as JBL did.... both in the USA and in Japan and it reaches the peak of their mountain. That's what JBL did. A decade later the S9800 arrived. Greg Timbers was their god without any doubt. Greg had their absolute true which is a really big deal in the Japanese culture.

Back down on planet earth you can make any system sing within reason if your put the effort in for long enough.

Unfortunately, in recent times those bar's have declined because things change. It's pretty sad. And that is why when someone NEW turns ups up HERE and no matter how crazy their ideas are I try and help them because they are the future of this legacy. Isn't that our cause? No question is too difficult. At the start we all knew nothing. Fuck all.

It's not about you and its not about me. It's about nurturing the next generation and the generation after that. What's the big difference with JBL? Why? And helping fulfil their experience with JBL. Their journey might take 20 years just like it did yours and mine and then they will pass on what they've learned and experienced.
Well retro is big right now so maybe somehow these new younger folks will want to explore some of the great stuff from the past. Which can easily be used in the present.
Look at all the young guys who want 60's, 70's or 80's retro cars or trucks. Vintage is big currently.
We need more places playing speakers of the past to show what can be found from the past.
I'm still very AMAZED by all the really high end companies making stuff for home audio. How do they all survive selling amps and speakers for those kinds of monies?

[Ian Mackenzie]

My own perspective is young people up to their late 30’s spend money on their Nissan Navara Warrior , jet skis and the outdoors.

So it’s about seeing the brand in that demographic.

The suitcase loudspeaker brigade is the hipster.

My thinking is the 7 series monitors as they are right into recordings at home

These young people are smart and they are tech savvy

It’s the bloke in his 40’s who will aspire to the status of a legacy hero system. That is the break away point from consumer high fidelity with its inherent dynamic limitations.

I’m looking at it logically if there is such a thing with consumer entertainment

[Ian Mackenzie]

Sunday School

As for hi end hi fi. It’s the AR3 on steroids type of thing. It’s nonsense when you think about it.

The new Purfi drivers might change that perception.

Good sound does not mean hi end prices. Sorry Mr Widget.

I find the notion of hi end akin to garage manufacturing with micro turnovers and massive pocket liner margins. It’s all marketing mystic. It an elitist luxury niche. It always was and always will be. The more expensive it is the more they will pay for it mentality.

The law of diminishing returns sets in real quick with consumer hifi. Even more so with hi end. It’s shades of grey. Green felt tip pen territory with the buffs arguing over psycho acoustic subliminal perceptions while they listen with their eyes wide shut. It’s utter BS. They are enamoured in snake oil and enriched with looking to the stars with Maslow’s model of hierarchy status.

Yes l sold the clapped out BMW and bought a VPI TNT turntable so l can self actualise. (Regulate my emotions).

The problem is that “lot” of wankers won’t buy it unless it’s very expensive because they will doubt it’s any good. Holly bat crap.

Change of subject

The End Game
We know it’s easier to design a full size JBL system than a small one for it sound good. (Per Greg Timbers recent interview). But who wants to pay Harmaniser prices? So we clever people go full circle to cloning a full size system for jam money (just about). Or roll your own project loudspeaker.

The world turns in circles and so do we.

Edit
Someone on the LHS compared my writing style (here at least) with William T. Vollmann. No l am not a cross dresser…Lol
https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/mansplaining-cross-dressing/amp

[Mr. Widget]

I always wondered if there was not some kind of market for really big and awesome setups in these homes. I mean if you own several nice cars and all the other toys, get a big ass stereo system to go along with it. Impress all those you're already trying to impress with such a stupid big house. If I had a house that big I'd bet you for certain that I'd rarely even visit or go in some of those rooms. I'm only one guy and a wife. Some of these homes are so big they make no sense to me as a home to live in. They must be big cold places.
So I thought if these folks saw some really nice setup they might bite.I work in homes like you are describing. 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 square feet and often with a pool house that is bigger than my house. Some of them have garages filled with multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and more. Virtually none of the owners want a big ass system.

We install dozens of TVs and hundreds of speakers in these homes, but rarely do the rooms sound as good as a typical Forum member's system. That isn't the goal. They want invisible sound everywhere and it must be easy to use... don't get me wrong, often times we put in stunning home theaters or outdoor party systems that sound like Jimmy Page stopped by to jam in your back yard, but a dedicated stereo system? Almost never.


Good sound does not mean hi end prices. Sorry Mr Widget.
Are you saying that I am ripping off my clients with high prices, or that I've wasted money on TAD drivers, are you apologizing for something, or none of the above? Sometimes your posts are a bit confusing.



As for hi end hi fi. It’s the AR3 on steroids type of thing.
I would agree with that statement.



It’s nonsense when you think about it.
You lost me there. Are you talking about the uber pricy stuff? I don't know who buys that stuff. See above, though obviously someone is buying it.
But speakers like the Revel Performa3 series and B&W 700 series as well as many other similar speakers from Paradigm and others are quite good and while not inexpensive they are similarly priced to those from AR when considering inflation.



The law of diminishing returns sets in real quick with consumer hifi. Even more so with hi end. It’s shades of grey. Green felt tip pen territory with the buffs arguing over psycho acoustic subliminal perceptions while they listen with their eyes wide shut. It’s utter BS. They are enamoured in snake oil and enriched with looking to the stars with Maslow’s model of hierarchy status.Again we are in full agreement... and often you can't even talk these guys out of it. I have come to the conclusion that if the device (a cable, a tube amp, a gold plated doily) makes the person happy, then why not. At the end of the day this is neither rocket science nor medicine... no one will die from a stupid audio decision.



Widget

[Mr. Widget]

I work in homes like you are describing. 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 square feet and often with a pool house that is bigger than my house. Some of them have garages filled with multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and more. Virtually none of the owners want a big ass system.That said, we are working on one project where the home owner does want a big ass system and he got it. In the main pavilion of the multi-building complex there is a full on private night club system with stacks of 18" subs including infrasonic subs. In another location he is getting some custom horn speakers designed and built by a fellow in Germany (No, its no one from the Forum) and all of this is on a private island in the British Virgin Islands.

Currently the entire project is under NDA, but we may get permission to publish some details for marketing purposes. If we do I'll share more... the project is a real life James Bond evil villain lair. Fortunately the client is far from being an evil villain.


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[speakerdave]

. . . Fortunately the client is far from being an evil villain.
Widget

More Thomas Crownish?

[Ian Mackenzie]

I work in homes like you are describing. 10,000, 20,000, 30,000 square feet and often with a pool house that is bigger than my house. Some of them have garages filled with multiple Ferraris, Bentleys, and more. Virtually none of the owners want a big ass system.

We install dozens of TVs and hundreds of speakers in these homes, but rarely do the rooms sound as good as a typical Forum member's system. That isn't the goal. They want invisible sound everywhere and it must be easy to use... don't get me wrong, often times we put in stunning home theaters or outdoor party systems that sound like Jimmy Page stopped by to jam in your back yard, but a dedicated stereo system? Almost never.

Are you saying that I am ripping off my clients with high prices, or that I've wasted money on TAD drivers, are you apologizing for something, or none of the above? Sometimes your posts are a bit confusing.


Widget

Firstly,

This thread is just a general discussion and you are making an agree / disagree thread.

Calm down. Your the one that’s reacting. There’s nothing judgemental about it.

You recently told me in your job you get to experience amazing hi end equipment.
In your post history you aspire to owning and experiencing hi end equipment.

Wonderful. Happy for you. Good times.

That’s your prerogative. It’s your choice. I don’t have to apologise for anything.

No one’s judging you. Aren’t you being hard on yourself? You take your self too seriously.

The funny thing is the first time l met you and we sat down for dinner l laughed about your perceptions of hi fi and hi end sound. You said to me was l being disrespectful. Really?
I said no because we are all entitled to our opinions and our own view on hifi.

It’s like buy a car. Not every buys a Rolls. I think some peoples are purchases are funny.

Here you are very sensitive again.

We not here to worship what you do or how you think about audio. We don’t have to and why should we?

What l’m saying is not everyone has to accept those choices nor do they have to respect those decisions.

If the world was like that there’d be a massive pecking order and class system.

I stand by the statement in my last post.

Where people go wrong is they become obsessed and very precious over the justification. That’s not my problem. It’s their problem. If you going to get that hung up on the justification why do it?

[Mr. Widget]

Firstly,

This thread is just a general discussion and you are making an agree / disagree thread. I must have missed your point. I thought you were addressing me and I was trying to understand where you were going.

Carry on. I'll leave you to it.


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

Thank you darling.

Well it’s nearly sleep time here and one must not get self absorbed in such minor things in life.

[jblguy]

That said, we are working on one project where the home owner does want a big ass system and he got it. In the main pavilion of the multi-building complex there is a full on private night club system with stacks of 18" subs including infrasonic subs. In another location he is getting some custom horn speakers designed and built by a fellow in Germany (No, its no one from the Forum) and all of this is on a private island in the British Virgin Islands.

Currently the entire project is under NDA, but we may get permission to publish some details for marketing purposes. If we do I'll share more... the project is a real life James Bond evil villain lair. Fortunately the client is far from being an evil villain.


Widget
Well that all sounds like a ton of fun to me. Your so fortunate to be able to do those things.
Are the horn being built by that German horn guy
https://www.hornsolutions.de/
I understand if your not able to say. I'd love to hear what your working on. Maybe as you said you can show some pics if they agree for your marketing.
Very interesting what you say about everyone wanting everything hidden. What fun is that? i kinda get in a home theater maybe. But for super cool music setup I'm surprised these 40yr something's don't say "cool" more often.
I suppose my "dream store " would flop like a wet donut on concrete.
I suppose the internet has made it possible to sell stuff like OMA makes or that German horn guy above.

[Mr. Widget]

Well that all sounds like a ton of fun to me. Your so fortunate to be able to do those things.
Are the horn being built by that German horn guy
https://www.hornsolutions.de/Yes, at times it is a blast... at other times, it's a job. And unfortunately jobs are not hobbies. :banghead:

Not Horn Solutions. The client found the maker and we have been working with him for a custom build.

https://martion.de/gallery/

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[jblguy]

Those look lovely. I'm amazed by how many speakers are out there that are new to me. Thanks for that link. That's what makes this so much fun. Endless possibilities.
I'm sure he'll be very pleased by how you set him up. Is that for 2 channel use? Does he chopper you in?

[Ian Mackenzie]

My observations are that its merchant bankers, lawyers and dentists who rotate serious money on hi end audio. They are introverts.

I know of one importer here who flew out the president of a principle horn loudspeaker business from the EU to commission a system in Byron Bay.

Up here we have lots of hi end homes in Noosa with the kind of set up your referring to. These homes are let to film stars.

[jblguy]

My observations are that its merchant bankers, lawyers and dentists who rotate serious money on hi end audio. They are introverts.

I know of one importer here who flew out the president of a principle horn loudspeaker business from the EU to commission a system in Byron Bay.

Up here we have lots of hi end homes in Noosa with the kind of set up your referring to. These homes are let to film stars.
Maybe if more people heard these systems they'd buy more of them. I imagine most of those rich folks are pretty private so it' might be hard to ever hear anything like we all have or strive for.
I thought this story was helpful to our hobby. I like what he has to say mostly. I certainly respect him for basically doing it his way. He obviously has the passion as well as the business aspirations. Bravo to him. I think we could hang out and get along.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoN4mleFlvA

[Ian Mackenzie]

Maybe but you have to have the means and it’s about priorities of course.

I think the people who buy this stuff have a private banker. Income around $500K a year. Stock brokers, surgeons, lawyers but they are not movie stars. They have a relatively small social structure and with new money and they like expensive things like cars, watches and hi end hifi. It’s self indulgence. They might live in a flashy inner city apartment. But they don’t have intimidating wealth. I had a career as a cbd banker and you get good intel on what they do with their discretionary income when they apply for a home loan. They are the hi end money tree. This is my opinion only.

[BMWCCA]

I think that's a fair assessment. I sell BMWs. The scary thing to me is I get credit applications from retired folk whose income is more money a month than I'm making still working 12-months!

As my Dad used to say when I'd ask why I couldn't have things the preppy kids at my prep-school had: "You picked the wrong womb!" :rotfl:

"May the Lord smite me with money . . . and may I never recover!" — reb tevye

[Ian Mackenzie]

Hey Phil,

Did you ever watch Billions the series on Stan?

Kind of says it all on sketchy new get rich quick wealth versus the DA’s office looking for the white collar crooks. I think l saw a descent turntable on one of the sets.

[jblguy]

I could help them spend it all. On Hifi stuff anyway and cars. Your right, priorities are the thing.
I did see in that clip I posted above that the CBS reporter was quite floored by what he heard. Even the ladies were impressed it seemed. Or just being TV phoney. But I felt the male reporter was genuinely taken back but what he heard.
I've always felt that was the key to any sale. Once you hear something that good, some folks can never forget. They are hopefully a future sale to somebody. That itch just may catch.
I mean if you love music who could say no to better music?
It's like we say in the car world, speeds just a matter of money, how fast do you wanna go?

[Ian Mackenzie]

This is what they want…….HuhummmmAha

[jblguy]

This is what they want…….HuhummmmAha
That's funny as I just watched that guys video yesterday with that system in it. I like how he has done the plywood in that grey tone. You can still see the plywood grain . I think it looks cool. Never seen that finish before.
Too me that system looks beautiful. Not TOO big at all. It's art to me. I'd like to hear that 30 inch. At least I think it's a 30inch. Or a 21inch.

[JacobLTA]

That's funny as I just watched that guys video yesterday with that system in it. I like how he has done the plywood in that grey tone. You can still see the plywood grain . I think it looks cool. Never seen that finish before.
Too me that system looks beautiful. Not TOO big at all. It's art to me. I'd like to hear that 30 inch. At least I think it's a 30inch. Or a 21inch.

yeah, I love the finish on those cabinets. Definitely a more elegant look than your standard matte.

I'm heard the super sub in another one of Devon's systems and, believe it or not, it's subtle. When it's on, it simply fills out the sound. It's not in your face like one might think. I heard his home system with and without the Fostex sub enabled and when it's off, you can tell something is missing but it's not a dramatic difference.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Although the 4305P is being pitched by the Harman Luxury Group l think this interview is a good product profile on answering the needs of the next generation.

https://www.harmanluxuryaudionews.com/2022/06/28/active-studio-monitors/
$2,200

It has a built in streamer. https://www.whathifi.com/au/news/jbl-4305p-studio-monitor-is-a-compact-bookshelf-speaker-with-hi-res-streaming-skills

I think the connectivity on the rear gives this model universal appeal.

I am not sure about the appearance of the design fitting in with mums beautiful living room.

[Mr. Widget]

I am not sure about the appearance of the design fitting in with mums beautiful living room.Pick out the thing that doesn't fit in this picture.


Widget

.

[BMWCCA]

Pick out the thing that doesn't fit in this picture.Might as well have in-ceiling speakers!

[1audiohack]

Pick out the thing that doesn't fit in this picture.
Widget

What the hell’s that tree doing in there?!? ;)

Barry.

[Mr. Widget]

What the hell’s that tree doing in there?!? ;)

Barry.Right!


Widget

[Ed Kreamer]

Colleagues,

Germaine to subject matter at hand: The N.W. Audio Show event is scheduled to take place at the Double Tree Inn across the highway from the Sea-Tac airport the 29th through the 31st of this month. I will take my self and beloved spouse from the bucolic wastes of Hood Canal and witness this sight and give a report.

God willing and the creek don't rise, and my spouse feels up to it.

Ed

[JacobLTA]

Colleagues,

Germaine to subject matter at hand: The N.W. Audio Show event is scheduled to take place at the Double Tree Inn across the highway from the Sea-Tac airport the 29th through the 31st of this month. I will take my self and beloved spouse from the bucolic wastes of Hood Canal and witness this sight and give a report.

God willing and the creek don't rise, and my spouse feels up to it.

Ed

See you there! Will be my first time in Seattle.

[Mr. Widget]

Ok guys, we want a full report with pictures if possible!


Widget

[Ed Kreamer]

I remember in the early '60's that most people with a Hi-Fi had a largish console stereo made by Magnavox or Sylvania et al and that real hi-fi was confined to high end salons where we would find Fisher, AR, JBL/ Altec. Then fueled by returning
military people came back from Asia with all kind of exotic goodies like Kenwood, Sansui, and Teac which many of us had never seen before and Hi-Fi took off, and most of us bought the most we could afford.

I believe that Robh is correct, home Hi-Fi has now morphed into HT and since most of only have our viewing and audio systems in the same rooms, listening now plays 2nd fiddle to HT. As you can assume, not in my house, or probably yours.

So here we are, just like before. But instead of a console, we have a DVD, AVR and some crummy little crap box speakers, while people like us haunt the Audio stores wanting to hear what the L-100 classic sounds like......if we can find them.
Will it stay this way. I don't think so. Some retailer at "If You Have To Ask You Can't Afford It" audio emporium, will figure out that they can make a pile of money selling mid level but still high quality products.

Them's my thoughts...for now

Ed