Kitchen Ceiling Speaker

[Val]

I am slowly remodeling my kitchen DIY. My wife pointed out that my old RadioShack Realistic speakers from 1992 look horrible as they are mounted under the cabinets. At first I was bummed that I have to let my old speakers go but then I thought this is an opportunity to buy some new ceiling speakers. So the search is on. I’m leaning towards the Electro Voice linked below but also interested if anybody has any input on the JBL offerings. The EV seems a bit institutional but it does have a sealed base reflex enclosure that will keep the fiberglass out of the workings and reduce bleed throughout the house as I have an open attic. I cook a lot and so these are actually the most listened to speakers in the house. All thoughts welcome.

https://products.electrovoice.com/na/en/evid-c82/

[Mr. Widget]

I'd have to agree with your assessment that it is time to let these go.

The ceiling speakers that you are looking at are extremely large by domestic standards. The outer edge of the bezel is almost 12" in diameter, and the bezel is quite wide by today's standards. That said, the speakers look like they may be solid performers, I have no experience with them.

For good acoustic performance and a reasonable size, I prefer the B&Ws over the JBL/Revel offerings.

https://www.bowers-wilkins-custom-id.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/CCM662-Information-Sheet.pdf

For a very good performer and maximum aesthetic appeal, we install a lot of these small aperture speakers. They are sized to match contemporary lighting (3" D or 4" D). Their enclosure must be installed prior to drywall. These speakers are a proper three-way, with a 6.5" woofer, a 2" mid and concentric dome. They are available with and without bezels, can be round or square, and can even be ordered with custom wood grilles to match a wood ceiling.

https://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/products/309


Widget

[HCSGuy]

I’ll give you a few of my opinions, and you can use them, or don’t. First, I also cook a lot, and have a pair of in-ceiling speakers in my Kitchen, though mine are sealed can Triads with a 5.25” woofer. In general, an open baffle, conventional in-ceiling speaker will go lower in the bass region, as it has your entire attic as an enclosure - expect a sealed can speaker to start rolling off at 80hz or so, as they generally have smaller back cans than the engineers would like. Having installed AV systems into many, many homes over the last 25yrs, I have never had an issue with open baffle speakers leaking sound into adjacent rooms, as long as you restrict their use to top floor rooms - don’t ever use them between floors (e.g. in the first floor ceiling of a two floor home). You can pile up insulation over them to keep R value. There are reasons to use sealed can speakers relating to huge temperature differentials and condensation, but you’re not going to experience them in Palo Alto.

Second, If there’s a room I do a lot of listening in, I prefer a horizontally dispersing speaker over a down-firing one. I don’t know where you are in your remodel, but if you can move your Radio shack speakers into the middle of the room and re-mount them facing down, listen to them and see if you’re OK with how they sound. In general, downward firing speakers are background music only for us. However, I realize that finding open wall space for an in-wall speaker (Which generally does need to be a sealed back-box unit, as walls are almost always shared with another room) is tough. I couldn’t do it in my Kitchen, though I could have gone really old school and put a pair of bookshelf speakers on top of the cabinets, but figured that as a pro, I’d get judged harshly for that.

I have used the James speakers that Widget recommends, and like them, with two conditions. First, since they are not serviceable from the interior of the home, if something happens to them you have to either remove Sheetrock, or get them out from the backside - because you have an open attic, you’re OK. Second, make sure whatever distributed audio system you are using has EQ, or at least tone controls, so you can adjust the bass to your preference. They are a very high end solution for a client who really doesn’t want to see the speakers - that may be you, or may not be.

Lastly, we have done a few unconventional systems over the years as well. If you really have to have in-ceiling speakers, consider small in-ceiling speakers, but 4 of them, so they cover the room better. Triad and KEF both make small in-ceiling speakers with 4” (or smaller) woofers that sound good, though they have no bass at any significant volume level. Then put a subwoofer somewhere in the room - it doesn’t have to be a fancy one. Kitchens tend to have lots of empty space above cabinetry - get two 8” subwoofer drivers and a subwoofer amp from Parts-express, and build a subwoofer that has the two drivers facing away from each other. This way they cancel out each others’ vibrations, and the china in the cabinet doesn’t rattle.

Hope this helps…

[audiomagnate]

Are those Mininus 7s? I love Minimums 7s. That's what I listen to in the kitchen. When in doubt, don't do anything.

[Val]

Thanks Widget - I'd not seen the JamesLoudspeaker before. Amazing design, materials and craft. And I love B&Ws. Unfortunately both are well outside my budget (need to stay under $400).


I'd have to agree with your assessment that it is time to let these go.

The ceiling speakers that you are looking at are extremely large by domestic standards. The outer edge of the bezel is almost 12" in diameter, and the bezel is quite wide by today's standards. That said, the speakers look like they may be solid performers, I have no experience with them.

For good acoustic performance and a reasonable size, I prefer the B&Ws over the JBL/Revel offerings.

https://www.bowers-wilkins-custom-id.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/CCM662-Information-Sheet.pdf

For a very good performer and maximum aesthetic appeal, we install a lot of these small aperture speakers. They are sized to match contemporary lighting (3" D or 4" D). Their enclosure must be installed prior to drywall. These speakers are a proper three-way, with a 6.5" woofer, a 2" mid and concentric dome. They are available with and without bezels, can be round or square, and can even be ordered with custom wood grilles to match a wood ceiling.

https://www.jamesloudspeaker.com/products/309


Widget

[Val]

Thanks HCSGuy - good points. There is zero wall space for in-wall speakers. I will try your suggestion of testing down firing...good idea. I appreciate your input on open baffle and bleed through and will reconsider those as an option.


I’ll give you a few of my opinions, and you can use them, or don’t. First, I also cook a lot, and have a pair of in-ceiling speakers in my Kitchen, though mine are sealed can Triads with a 5.25” woofer. In general, an open baffle, conventional in-ceiling speaker will go lower in the bass region, as it has your entire attic as an enclosure - expect a sealed can speaker to start rolling off at 80hz or so, as they generally have smaller back cans than the engineers would like. Having installed AV systems into many, many homes over the last 25yrs, I have never had an issue with open baffle speakers leaking sound into adjacent rooms, as long as you restrict their use to top floor rooms - don’t ever use them between floors (e.g. in the first floor ceiling of a two floor home). You can pile up insulation over them to keep R value. There are reasons to use sealed can speakers relating to huge temperature differentials and condensation, but you’re not going to experience them in Palo Alto.

Second, If there’s a room I do a lot of listening in, I prefer a horizontally dispersing speaker over a down-firing one. I don’t know where you are in your remodel, but if you can move your Radio shack speakers into the middle of the room and re-mount them facing down, listen to them and see if you’re OK with how they sound. In general, downward firing speakers are background music only for us. However, I realize that finding open wall space for an in-wall speaker (Which generally does need to be a sealed back-box unit, as walls are almost always shared with another room) is tough. I couldn’t do it in my Kitchen, though I could have gone really old school and put a pair of bookshelf speakers on top of the cabinets, but figured that as a pro, I’d get judged harshly for that.

I have used the James speakers that Widget recommends, and like them, with two conditions. First, since they are not serviceable from the interior of the home, if something happens to them you have to either remove Sheetrock, or get them out from the backside - because you have an open attic, you’re OK. Second, make sure whatever distributed audio system you are using has EQ, or at least tone controls, so you can adjust the bass to your preference. They are a very high end solution for a client who really doesn’t want to see the speakers - that may be you, or may not be.

Lastly, we have done a few unconventional systems over the years as well. If you really have to have in-ceiling speakers, consider small in-ceiling speakers, but 4 of them, so they cover the room better. Triad and KEF both make small in-ceiling speakers with 4” (or smaller) woofers that sound good, though they have no bass at any significant volume level. Then put a subwoofer somewhere in the room - it doesn’t have to be a fancy one. Kitchens tend to have lots of empty space above cabinetry - get two 8” subwoofer drivers and a subwoofer amp from Parts-express, and build a subwoofer that has the two drivers facing away from each other. This way they cancel out each others’ vibrations, and the china in the cabinet doesn’t rattle.

Hope this helps…

[Val]

Darn straight! One of the few products from Radio Shack that was stellar. I think I paid $50 for them about 30 years ago. They still sound great. Solid metal cabinets really hold up well.


Are those Mininus 7s? I love Minimums 7s. That's what I listen to in the kitchen. When in doubt, don't do anything.