Woofer 2213 H positive or negative transducer ?

[imai]

please i would like to know if the 2213H woofer jbl is positive or negative transducer...
very thanks in advance
luigi

[jbl4ever]

Positive

[jbl4ever]

Info here
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/22789810/technical-notes-volume-1-number-12b-polarity-conventions-of-jbl-

[edgewound]

please i would like to know if the 2213H woofer jbl is positive or negative transducer...
very thanks in advance
luigi

2213H/2213/123A-3 = Positive voltage applied to the BLACK terminal results in forward cone movement.

2212/123A-1/126A/D123 all share the same motor and are opposite.

[edgewound]

Info here
https://www.yumpu.com/en/document/view/22789810/technical-notes-volume-1-number-12b-polarity-conventions-of-jbl-

The 2213H is not mentioned in the Tech Note.

[imai]

[QUOTE=edgewound;439792]2213H/2213/123A-3 = Positive voltage applied to the BLACK terminal results in forward cone movement.

POSITIVE voltage a black terminal ??? BLACK ??? No phase test ??




deaer I have 123A-1 and have tested It ..It is positive . and NOT OPPOSITE !!!

2213H Positive voltage applied to the BLACK terminal results in forward cone movement.



I still do not understand ... there was someone at the jbl who was not well headed they made a mess !!!

[BMWCCA]

I still do not understand ... there was someone at the jbl who was not well headed they made a mess !!!
It is what it is. Worked for them, and easy to test/check. Is that a problem?

Not sure JBL really cared about what others thought. If you take a driver out, mark how it was connected or take a photo. Then test to see if the last guy messed it up!

[imai]

[QUOTE=BMWCCA;439804
]It is what it is. Worked for them, and easy to test/check
. Is that a problem?
no problem I would just like to understand, ( positive voltage on black terminal....:confused:

Not sure JBL really cared about what others thought.

of course you... but if you are a big company and you create confusion ... I don't think it's ok


If you take a driver out, mark how it was connected or take a photo.

I have driver out my 123a-1 end it are positive transducer if test it with positive voltage on red terminal of the driver
it are negative transducer if test it with positive voltage on black terminal of driver


in both cases I disagree with data sheet jbl about it:crying:


"""2213H/2213/123A-3 = Positive voltage applied to the BLACK terminal results in forward cone movement.

2212/123A-1/126A/D123 all share the same motor and are opposite.""

[toddalin]

Unless of course they screwed up at the factory and have a reverse polarity on the magnet. We know this to be the case in maybe 2% of the speakers..., present company included. Shiite happens.

[edgewound]

[QUOTE=BMWCCA;439804
]It is what it is. Worked for them, and easy to test/check
. Is that a problem?
no problem I would just like to understand, ( positive voltage on black terminal....:confused:

Not sure JBL really cared about what others thought.

of course you... but if you are a big company and you create confusion ... I don't think it's ok


If you take a driver out, mark how it was connected or take a photo.

I have driver out my 123a-1 end it are positive transducer if test it with positive voltage on red terminal of the driver
it are negative transducer if test it with positive voltage on black terminal of driver


in both cases I disagree with data sheet jbl about it:crying:


"""2213H/2213/123A-3 = Positive voltage applied to the BLACK terminal results in forward cone movement.

2212/123A-1/126A/D123 all share the same motor and are opposite.""

It's pretty simple, really.

A question was asked, and I responded with the correct answer. Analysis paralysis is futile. Just accept it and move on.

[imai]

[QUOTE=imai;439806]
È piuttosto semplice,
davvero.
È stata posta una domanda e ho risposto con la risposta
corretta.
La paralisi dell'analisi è inutile.
Basta accettarlo e andare avanti.


good morning thanks for the answer..
I can not find confirmation by testing my 123a-1 with what you wrote.
no paralysis of the analysis

I have a problem and I would like to solve.
thanks again luigi

[Odd]

Test polarity with battery.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/polarity.htm


http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/polarity_files/polarity-drivers.png

[imai]

thanks luigi



Test polarity with battery.

http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/polarity.htm


http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/polarity_files/polarity-drivers.png

[mark214]

Information like this is yet another reason why this site is such a great resource.

[imai]

I finally ascertained that the woofer 123a-1 and positive transducer
and the 2213h and a negative transducer.
I ask you having foolishly replaced the 2213h with the 123a-1 in my 4312 first series (with original crossower
)What should I do ? reverse the wires behind the 123a-1?
to have a right crossover ?

thanks for the help luigi

:banghead:

[Mr. Widget]

I finally ascertained that the woofer 123a-1 and positive transducer
and the 2213h and a negative transducer.
I ask you having foolishly replaced the 2213h with the 123a-1 in my 4312 first series (with original crossower
)What should I do ? reverse the wires behind the 123a-1?
to have a right crossover ?

thanks for the help luigi

:banghead:If the only difference between the two woofers is the polarity, no big deal. Just reverse the wires at the woofer.


Widget

[imai]

[QUOTE=Mr. Widget;439851] Se l'unica differenza tra i due woofer è la polarità, non è un grosso problema. Basta invertire i fili del woofer.

I hope to definitively remedy the mistake of replacing the two woofers

Very thanks Mr Widget.....

[edgewound]

I finally ascertained that the woofer 123a-1 and positive transducer
and the 2213h and a negative transducer.
I ask you having foolishly replaced the 2213h with the 123a-1 in my 4312 first series (with original crossower
)What should I do ? reverse the wires behind the 123a-1?
to have a right crossover ?

thanks for the help luigi

:banghead:

Yes...Just reverse the wires.

That said...the 2213H, if in good working order...is a superior woofer to the 123A-1/2212. If someone told you otherwise, you were lied to. The ONLY thing that might make the 123A-1 "more valuable" is the AlNiCo magnet, which is also removable from the frame, and which carries a mystique that ceramic does not have, but the ceramic 2213H is a better performer.

[imai]

Sì... Basta invertire i fili.

questo... la 2213H, se in buone condizioni di funzionamento... è un woofer superiore al 123A-1/2212. Se qualcuno ti diceva il contrario, ti hanno mentito. L'UNICA cosa che potrebbe rendere il 123A-1 "più prezioso" è il magnete AlNiCo, che è anche rimovibile dal telaio, e che porta una mistica che la ceramica non ha, ma la ceramica 2213H è una performance migliore.


thanks for your answer,
yes in fact and 'went so' I advised to replace the 2213h with 123a-1/2/3 in alnico because' better from a sound point of view so' also the 5/12 with le5/2 in alnico ...
In addition 'without making any changes to the crossover,
In practice now I have a 4312 hybrid .. which I believe has no one...
unfortunately I can't go back buying the original drivers would be too expensive for me. :banghead:
Thanks again for the support

[Woofer]

This is an old thread, but I thought I'd add this extra bit.I just purchased a pair of 2213 [Alnico] to replace a pair of dead ones, and although they are both original, they are opposite in polarity to each other.Anyway, point is, yes, always do the battery check before you wire them in.Cheers all....

[RMC]

Hi woofer,

Just trying to find an explanation. What comes to mind...

JBL started switching polarity from black positive to red positive in early 90's according to tech note V1 no 12C. So in your pair purchased you have an older made (prior 90) and a newer made 90's and on?

Close or far apart drivers serial number may confirm they were built at same or different times hence the polarity issue?

Alternatively, one was reconed with the original kit but was incorrectly wired during some repair?

Btw 2213H in your title is ferrite and 2213 is Alnico as you probably already know. Regards,

Richard

[bedrock602]

A few years ago I purchased a pair of 4311B speakers with one damaged 2213H woofer. Both woofers had gray colored frames and looking for a replacement, only black frames were available so, being afflicted with OCD, I purchased two woofers with black frames so that in the event I developed the ability to see thru the enclosures, I would not be bothered by the mismatch.

At the time, I was not aware that the 2213H woofers had the black terminal as the positive connection or that there may be some JBL woofers that may have been mis-wired at the factory. I will pull the woofers to test their polarity.

So, assuming my 2213H woofers are a matched pair, both wired with the black terminals as positive, should the positive wire from the crossover (which from memory is green) , be connected to the BLACK TERMINAL (positive) or the RED TERMINAL (negative) of the woofers?

[RMC]

Hi Bedrock,

I think i have something for you with regards to your 2213H question. I don't have time right now but i'll post it tomorrow.

Richard

[Woofer]

Hi woofer,Just trying to find an explanation. What comes to mind...JBL started switching polarity from black positive to red positive in early 90's according to tech note V1 no 12C. So in your pair purchased you have an older made (prior 90) and a newer made 90's and on?Close or far apart drivers serial number may confirm they were built at same or different times hence the polarity issue?Alternatively, one was reconed with the original kit but was incorrectly wired during some repair? Btw 2213H in your title is ferrite and 2213 is Alnico as you probably already know. Regards,RichardHi Richard,Incorrectly wiring the polarity, just isn't possible unless you physically swap the braids over which would result in them crossing over each other.. They'd short out in no time.I'm guessing the only way polarity reversal can happen is, as mentioned before, is if the magnet was flipped during manufacture.Maybe the voice coil might have been put in the wrong way round during the assembly of the cone, but highly unlikely as the lead in wires would be at the wrong end of the former.I'm curious enough to pull the drivers out one day soon and actually check the polarity of the magnets.Woof.

[Woofer]

A few years ago I purchased a pair of 4311B speakers with one damaged 2213H woofer. Both woofers had gray colored frames and looking for a replacement, only black frames were available so, being afflicted with OCD, I purchased two woofers with black frames so that in the event I developed the ability to see thru the enclosures, I would not be bothered by the mismatch. At the time, I was not aware that the 2213H woofers had the black terminal as the positive connection or that there may be some JBL woofers that may have been mis-wired at the factory. I will pull the woofers to test their polarity. So, assuming my 2213H woofers are a matched pair, both wired with the black terminals as positive, should the positive wire from the crossover (which from memory is green) , be connected to the BLACK TERMINAL (positive) or the RED TERMINAL (negative) of the woofers?According to the schematics for the x-o, green/black to -ve. But then again, does that mean the black terminal??????

[bedrock602]

According to the schematics for the x-o, green/black to -ve. But then again, does that mean the black terminal??????

If the schematic is to be taken at face value, then testing the woofer for polarity and disregarding the color of the binding post seems to be the smart thing to do

[RMC]

Hi bedrock,

As promised additional info regarding 2213H polarity.

The easy answer to your question is to follow the wiring diagram(s) in the JBL documents attached. In practice it MIGHT not be that simple as there were a number of revisions of said documents (6 of them! A to F).

I've read in some thread where a guy indicated 2213H is black positive (as if all H were that way). He should know better considering his line of work. Truth is it can be black positive or red positive depending on year it was made. e.g. built say 1985 it will be black positive, whereas built say 1995 it will be red positive, for the same version. I don't think there's a manufacturing date on the drivers.

The 2213H were not only oldies, some were more recent. On a JBL 2010 official price list i have the 2213H was still offered for sale (btw retail $426.) so some might still have been manufactured around those years, or its old stock being let go until depleted.

I've attached revisions A (no date) and F (2007), older and newer, that i have of the 4311B Tech Manual. I don't have time to compare diagrams on both, item by item, however there should be a difference somewhere to reflect the black to red positive switch.

I know this may not resolve your issue with certainty but you have some context here. On the other hand matching your driver with a mfr date, then matching such with the corresponding revision of the Tech Manual isn't necessarily a piece of cake.

However in absence of the date they were made your best bet could be to pull out the drivers and test their actual polarity.

Richard

[Woofer]

Hi bedrock,As promised additional info regarding 2213H polarity.The easy answer to your question is to follow the wiring diagram(s) in the JBL documents attached. In practice it MIGHT not be that simple as there were a number of revisions of said documents (6 of them! A to F). I've read in some thread where a guy indicated 2213H is black positive (as if all H were that way). He should know better considering his line of work. Truth is it can be black positive or red positive depending on year it was made. e.g. built say 1985 it will be black positive, whereas built say 1995 it will be red positive, for the same version. I don't think there's a manufacturing date on the drivers.The 2213H were not only oldies, some were more recent. On a JBL 2010 official price list i have the 2213H was still offered for sale (btw retail $426.) so some might still have been manufactured around those years, or its old stock being let go until depleted.I've attached revisions A (no date) and F (2007), older and newer, that i have of the 4311B Tech Manual. I don't have time to compare diagrams on both, item by item, however there should be a difference somewhere to reflect the black to red positive switch. I know this may not resolve your issue with certainty but you have some context here. On the other hand matching your driver with a mfr date, then matching such with the corresponding revision of the Tech Manual isn't necessarily a piece of cake.However in absence of the date they were made your best bet could be to pull out the drivers and test their actual polarity.RichardAn excellent post Richard. Thank you heaps for that. Woofer.

[Woofer]

If the schematic is to be taken at face value, then testing the woofer for polarity and disregarding the color of the binding post seems to be the smart thing to doCertainly looks that way. But this raises the question, does this also apply to the mid drivers? Might have to pull mine out and check, but, another day....

[RMC]

Hi woofer,

Thanks for the good word.

RE does this also apply to the mid drivers?

This idea also crossed my mind quickly but i didn't try to keep it since things are already complicated with six revisions of the Tech Manual. At this point i'd say it might look like that.

However, in a 3-way 12 db/oct crossover the mid driver polarity should already be reversed for proper operation...

Richard

[Woofer]

Richard, what makes it even more difficult for me, is that I have the JBL 4312A Monitors, but cooked both the woofers when an amp went DC. Here in Australia, the 2213H are impossible to source, so I had to get the 2213 but when I realised after listening they were opposite polarities, I just went with the battery test to sort them out. I'm pretty sure the mids are in phase, no phasing nulls that I can notice, so I guess everything in phase now, but after all the extra info, I will eventually run a Phase Checker when I find it.... Thanks heaps for all your input.

[bedrock602]

Hi bedrock,

As promised additional info regarding 2213H polarity.

Richard

Thank you for taking the time to post the revisions. I'll pull the drivers and post my findings here. The only problem is that I replaced the original 2213H woofers with a matching pair since one of the originals had a cracked cone. At the time I was unaware of the polarity issue so did not pay attention to how the woofers were connected to the crossovers. I'll test both originals and replacements for polarity.

[bedrock602]

Certainly looks that way. But this raises the question, does this also apply to the mid drivers? Might have to pull mine out and check, but, another day....

Yes, that's the other issue, how are those mids wired? I'll check them as well.

[Woofer]

Yes, that's the other issue, how are those mids wired? I'll check them as well.Good luck bedrock. I'm lucky enough to have a JBL SA660 amp, which just happens to have a 'TEST' function switch on the front panel, which tests if anything is out of phase. With one of the woofers reversed, it passes. Mids and tweeters are good. :)