Speaker Cable Spade Lug to Pin Adapters. Or?

[markd51]

Hello All, I didn't know which sub-forum to post this in?

Speakers in question, an unmolested pair of 4430 Monitors, and have no intentions of molesting-modifying them.

I'm not taking about DIY making up the cheapo Monster, Belden, Canare-etc Cables with the likes of Parts Express-etc Pins. I've gone this route already.

I'd like going beyond with some better cables, yet again, have no desires or ripping apart the speakers to retrofit better Bindng Posts. Yes, I am aware this is of course the best audiophile way to go, did it to my 2 pair of Jubals, and do have some regrets of taking them away from bone stock original.

Such simpler Pins might be a major headache with more complex Cable designs which are often multi-strand. Let's say a pair of Kimber 8TC-12TC Cables as an example.

So, does somebody know of adapters that I speak of, and if so, can someone please point me in the right direction?

Or will I be relegated to taking a Dremel Tool, or Side Cutters to butcher, and hack off one lug on a Spade Lug on let's say a $400-$600 or up pair of speaker Cables? Might work, but sure not pretty or smart.

[Riley Casey]

I guess you can't just tin the ends of $400 speaker cables can you? :dont-know:

[markd51]

I guess you can't just tin the ends of $400 speaker cables can you? :dont-know:

I might assume such has been done by end users. Maybe even companies doing such for you by special request?

I've done such to simpler cables, where there's only 2 or 4 conductors. But never cables such as more complex Kimbers which are braided-woven from multiple smaller individual strands. The total diameter tinned might still be too thick for insertion.

I was hoping somebody did make such a Spade Lug to Pin Adapter as I mention, and such would add versatility to any spade lug terminated Cable where it then could also be used with other Speakers which have better Binding Posts.

Having a general idea of what Banana Terminations look like and their size, they would be too thick to insert into the holes of the Push Type Posts on a speaker such as the 4430 and others.

[markd51]

Let me ask this, am I placing too much concern and worry about Speaker Cables?

I'm surely not looking to go with the Garden Hose variety at something like $3K a 8' pair, but had thought that using a higher quality grade of wire would hold some sonic benefit.

Or, am I over-thinking making some cabling improvements in my system and won't hear any improvements with Speaker Cables versus the cables I have been using?

Which have been Belden "10 White", (10 ga) and Canare 4S11 that I both bought in bulk from Blue Jeans Cable.

And yes, I was able to terminate these cables at the Speaker End with Pin Adapters that I forget where I got them from, RAM, or ? Is this good enough or can improvements still be gotten?

Sure, they look fine and work fine, dressed them both in Techflex Sheathing, Shrink Wrap, the whole nine yards, look very nice.

I wonder what other members use here for Speaker Cabling, when they have many of the JBL Speakers which have Push Pin Binding Posts, and have not modified their speakers to other Binding Posts?

Are such folks all then relegated to using simpler and less expensive Cables and designs?

Lastly, I suppose I myself, or even perhaps if willing to spend the money, could have a competent Machinist fabricate such an Adapter of let's say pure Copper, and where it has a machined flat block area with a threaded Screw which would accept any common Spade Lug and/or Banana Plug from a Speaker Cable, and then terminate to a appropriately sized Pin to insert to the Push Pin Connectors of the 4430?

I just found these earlier. These appear to accept a common Banana Plug, and terminate to a Pin.
But so far, I have yet to find anyone who makes an Adapter that accepts a Spade Lug, and terminates to a Pin? Maybe I'm not using the right search terms?

https://www.amazon.com/CESS-162-Banana-Plug-Female-Speaker/dp/B08PV8L6NC/ref=sr_1_3?dchild=1&keywords=banana+plug+to+pin+adapter&qid=1619698612&sr=8-3

[Riley Casey]

It never hurts to go back to what the essence of the connection between the amplifier and speaker is - to move current as efficiently as possible. If you hew to that goal above all else you'll end up with simple ( and relatively cheap ) large gauge wire mated to high ampacity connectors. The spring terminals on the back of the speaker enclosure are anything but on that last point and replacing them with binding posts or terminal strips of course would mean making changes and that treads on the speaker as playback device vs speaker as museum piece. It also helps to remember that all of the drivers in the enclosure use those same spring terminals and the internal wiring is very low cost 16 ga hook up wire.


Let me ask this, am I placing too much concern and worry about Speaker Cables?

...

[markd51]

I'm understanding of what you say and of course what you are relating to are the weakest links in an audio system.
Eliminating and lessening any and all weak links in a system are the common keys to overall sonic improvement.

Better Amplification, Pre-Amplification, Source Components, Cabling-Wiring are some basics.

When I had once discovered that I had totally fried 2 X-Over Networks inside my older beloved quad of JBL L-65 Jubal Speakers, I was of course sick. The other 2 X-Overs were probably nearing the ends of their life as well, and it came down to the choice of either repairing what was there, or going beyond?

I went far beyond I feel, but of course the inner workings of those 4 Speakers are no longer stock JBL.

Contacting JBL Pro at the time, a tech emailed me the Schematic of the first version L-65 Jubal's networks, which mine are.
Once I had such, I had 4 custom made 3-way X-Overs adhering to stock specs fabricated with better-higher quality parts.

Goertz Air Core Inductors, 300W for the 126A Bass Drivers, all Solen Poly Caps throughout, works of art they were, and the weight of them must've been 5lbs each.

The new X-Overs were all attached the the Bottom Insides of the Cabs using 1" Nylon Standoffs.
The wimpy and half shot 10W L-Pads were not removed, but merely snipped all wiring to them. I custom mounted all brand new 100W L-Pads onto the rear of the Cabinets with their own L-Pad Cups. All were precisely positioned for appearance and relative ease of use.

All stock internal wiring upgraded, first from the new Edison-Price Solid Copper Binding Posts to the X-Over and then onto the 126A Bass Drivers were high purity copper hook up Wire was 12ga, and from the X-Over to the LE5-5 Mids, and 077 Tweeters and as well the L-Pads were wired with the same high purity Copper Wire but in 16ga.

All Solder connections that were required at the Binding Posts and X-Over was done with WBT Solder.

While I was inside, I did re-filet all panel joints with Carpenter's Glue, added foam gasketing to all drivers, re-attached all Port Tubes, and re-enforced all LE5-5 Sub Enclosures also to eliminate any possible vibtations.

No, these speakers are no longer 100% bone stock original, but the sound performed very well, was pleased with the final results.

Again though, I'd prefer not doing such mods to my mint pair of 4430 Speakers.

[markd51]

Sorry for the longish post above.

Bottom line is I'd like making some improvements here and there with my system, but not to go too crazy, or overboard with costs and time in the process.

Amps are Bryston 7BSST2 Monoblocks bought new, McIntosh MX-130 being used as my Pre-Amp, modded VPI Table with ZYX Airy 3X Cartridge, two Sutherland Phono Stages, the PHD, and 20/20, older CAL Labs CD Transports-DACs, (2) decent cabling throughout, AQ, Kimber, Wireworld.

[SaturationPt]

I have replaced JBL's terminals with binding posts, and no modification is necessary to the cabinet, they fit in the same holes where the original terminals were mounted (many sources for these). If you want to eventually return the speakers to "bone stock", it is a simple enough task with a soldering iron to re-install the original jacks. As I keep my JBLs with all of the original paperwork and packaging, i do understand the desire to be able to preserve their original condition when possible.

Of couse the spade lugs on your cables need to be the right size to use with binding posts, or you will end up clamping just one side in the wire hole.

I see and read so many people getting wrapped around the axle on speaker wires and terminations, where a good clean connection is fairly simple to accomplish.

[markd51]

I have replaced JBL's terminals with binding posts, and no modification is necessary to the cabinet, they fit in the same holes where the original terminals were mounted (many sources for these). If you want to eventually return the speakers to "bone stock", it is a simple enough task with a soldering iron to re-install the original jacks. As I keep my JBLs with all of the original paperwork and packaging, i do understand the desire to be able to preserve their original condition when possible.

Of couse the spade lugs on your cables need to be the right size to use with binding posts, or you will end up clamping just one side in the wire hole.

I see and read so many people getting wrapped around the axle on speaker wires and terminations, where a good clean connection is fairly simple to accomplish.

Yes, I understand what you're saying as well in your last sentence. and of course usually did that for years, especially back in the 70's and 80's when it appeared the good ole Monster Cable 2-Conductor Cable was the Cat's Meow golden standard.

But look at this particular Kimber 12TC Speaker Cable as an example, scroll down to see its Matrix, and you might see where such might be a bit more difficult. I would very likely prefer a Cable such as this to be professionally terminated by the manufacturer.

https://www.kimber.com/products/12TC

[markd51]

Of course I recognize the cheapo Adapters I link to from Amazon aren't anywhere near Cardas and WBT quality for a measly $10-$11 or so. Cheapo Wally World Chinese fake Gold Plating, real Gold isn't cheap anywhere on earth.

How much of a bottleneck such adapters create in the audio path, I'm sure there's some.

Of course as mentioned, the 4430's internals lack, and if one wants to have some comfort on what a speaker can be and the sum of its parts, then simply walk with about $30K in hand to the nearest Wilson Audio Dealer, or walk over to MusicDirect in Chicago with $55K in hand for a pair of Everests. LOL

Sure, if I hit the lottery! :D

[grumpy]

This isn't a new question, and there are many paths forward.
Also, there are many providers of spade to pin solutions, to answer your question.
Using the speaker cables of your choice with your own unmodified speakers should not be a hand-wringing decision.
You will find out if you like the result after living with them for awhile (more the connection reliability than the sound, imho, but that counts for jack).
Have fun.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9438

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/pinconnectorcables.htm

The cheaper ones will eventually break off inside the JBL terminals.

[markd51]

This isn't a new question, and there are many paths forward.
Also, there are many providers of spade to pin solutions, to answer your question.
Using the speaker cables of your choice with your own unmodified speakers should not be a hand-wringing decision.
You will find out if you like the result after living with them for awhile (more the connection reliability than the sound, imho, but that counts for jack).
Have fun.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9438

https://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/pinconnectorcables.htm

The cheaper ones will eventually break off inside the JBL terminals.

I see no evidence with these cheapo monoprice pins you link to, of accepting spade lugs. The Blue Jeans link shows zero.

Now here's a company that makes very nice high quality connectors, not wally world crap,but still not seeing the specific Adapters that I seek.

https://www.viablue.de/com/connectors.php

[grumpy]

Bluejeans link just described some of the issues... You're free to ignore the info.

The monoprice site was just an example:
"These high quality plugs are the closed screw type and can accept bare wire or spades"

I have no horse in this race.

[Mr. Widget]

Bottom line is I'd like making some improvements here and there with my system, but not to go too crazy, or overboard with costs and time in the process.You may want to read this article. It is the most informed and snake oil free article on speaker cable that I have found.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-wire-gauge

If you read it, you will have answers to your termination questions as well as direction on speaker cable choices.


Widget

[markd51]

Bluejeans link just described some of the issues... You're free to ignore the info.

The monoprice site was just an example:
"These high quality plugs are the closed screw type and can accept bare wire or spades"

I have no horse in this race.


I see.

[markd51]

You may want to read this article. It is the most informed and snake oil free article on speaker cable that I have found.

https://www.audioholics.com/audio-video-cables/speaker-wire-gauge

If you read it, you will have answers to your termination questions as well as direction on speaker cable choices.


Widget

This is basically the path and apparent common sense knowledge I usually went by, and/or was taught.

And towards the end of the article I can see the choices he recommends have mirrored what I have done.
10ga from Blue Jeans Cable, and the 14/4 Monoprice seems to mimic Canare 4S11.

He also says he likes Kimber 8TC, and again a Cable I've had some interest in. Yes, more money per foot-meter.

I am aware playing the cable rolling game can get expensive, and a gamble with a variety of outcomes. Kimber 8TC might be better, no better, or possibly even worse than what I now use. Such could be a personal finding. What one person might like and swear by, another person could possibly have different, or opposite end results.

Finding some cheapo adapters, and cable rolling, provided if one gets no joy, there's many dealers who will loan cables to try, and if not liked can be returned with probably just the expenses of shipping.

[markd51]

This morning, I watched a u-tube vid, and it was discussing some of the same cabling I've discussed here.

I'm sorry I sometimes appear to be a hard nut to crack, And I deeply appreciate all of your comments and input, thank you all.

Some common sense of what separates the expensive esoteric speaker cables are construction, quality connectors, quality of the wire itself, and besides such, probably a good dose of marketing hype also.

Well, quality connectors are not hard to acquire. And on simpler cable designs, again let's say Belden, or Canare which I've spoken of, again, one can usually do a quite acceptable, and sound job of termination. I believe, and probably all will agree that very good quality connectors where they can be applied wouldn't necessarily be a waste of one's money.

Such brands as Cardas, WBT are commonly some of the very best available, and again such Cables I mention would not be difficult to terminate with such quality connectors-terminations.

My Bryston Amps have provision for either Bananas, Spade Lugs, Bare Wire, whatever one chooses.

As for the speaker end, at the 4430. If I recall correctly, the holes in the Stock Push Pins were just large enough to accept bare 10ga Belden single strand. At least a bit better than what existed on my L-65s, and others like the vintage L-100's etc. Perhaps just simply tinning the Cable ends with a good quality Solder, let's again say WBT, might actually be better than the use of any connector no matter the quality and price?

My 4430 speakers perform just fine, and feel it wise not to fix what isn't broke.

After sleeping on many thoughts, might be best to leave well enough alone, and again, don't fix what isn't broken?

Money, if spent could be perhaps be better spent in other areas, source components, or ICs, and the free tweaks, speaker positioning, isolation, those sort of things.

Again, thanks all for your inputs.

[JeffW]

If your speaker cables have spades and you need pins, why not just crimp/solder a pin or piece of wire into a spade and then just connect it to the existing spade on the cable with a short bolt? Cover the whole thing with a piece of heat shrink and go on down the road.

[grumpy]

I see.

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

I’m starting to like this guy.

[grumpy]

I’ll just add with the 4430, getting the L-pads set to closely matching L-R responses was quite worth the effort in setting up test gear to do so. Using the 5235 was even tweakier re level matching. Good luck with your cable/termination investigations.

[markd51]

If your speaker cables have spades and you need pins, why not just crimp/solder a pin or piece of wire into a spade and then just connect it to the existing spade on the cable with a short bolt? Cover the whole thing with a piece of heat shrink and go on down the road.

You kind of lost me, perhaps with a repetition of words that I'm a little confused, but I think I basically do get what you're saying in that one could probably do a number of DIY Adapters to accomplish a conversion to whatever termination that might exist, and need changing to.

That if nothing exists, then design and make something, or have someone make such. I once had a friend who was a very accomplished machinist. (RIP) He (Andy) passed away about 6 years ago at age 74. He was also into the audio hobby, Amateur Astronomy, Firearms, we had many common interests.

He told me once that he once many years ago was doing consultation for the government on some black projects at $600/hr. I believe it, It seemed there was nothing this man couldn't build-make when he put his mind to it.

He did make some custom parts for my one VPI Turntable, built some custom visual adapters for one of my refractor Telescopes. He once made himself a miniature table top Gattling Gun that worked, and was a work of art, fired .22's.
And a custom made, all machined Equatorial Telescope Mount in is own roll off roof Observatory that could handle up to 250 lbs worth of Telescope.

At present, I'm fine, and for now I'm OK with my system. Most of what I inquired about were some things that I did not have any idea if they even existed, and called upon some of you folks who I figured might have more expertise, and wisdom than I do, particularly all pertaining to JBL.

I've been a JBL man and fan since 1973-1974, I'm 66 now. My first foray into JBL was four L-26 Decade Speakers, then onto the four L-65 Jubals, which I still also have, and look like brand new, original Grills, Drivers, Glass Tops, everything.

[JeffW]

Like this

[Riley Casey]

Jeez , I thought I was the only one who did stuff like this . :D


Like this

[markd51]

Jeez , I thought I was the only one who did stuff like this . :D

Don't know if you folks can see such, but here's one little honey of an upgrade component I wouldn't mind having in my system.

Today there might be better and for less money. And of course worse too for more money. I lusted for one like this for some years now. Maybe one day? LOL

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa166c-wadia-16-cd-player-and-digital-preamp-just-serviced-cd-sacd-players

[Mr. Widget]

Don't know if you folks can see such, but here's one little honey of an upgrade component I wouldn't mind having in my system.

Today there might be better and for less money. And of course worse too for more money. I lusted for one like this for some years now. Maybe one day? LOL

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisa166c-wadia-16-cd-player-and-digital-preamp-just-serviced-cd-sacd-playersI was thinking that if I had your system I would consider spending my money on my digital front end instead of "nice" speaker cables.

If this Wadia is really working up to spec it is probably a very nice sounding unit, but it doesn't offer any streaming capability. Having bitten the bullet and bought a high quality streaming DAC/Disc Spinner, I have found it such an upgrade I would not buy a digital front end without that capability.


Widget

[edgewound]

I see.


If you need to replace the HH Smith spring loaded terminals...which you really don't...with 5 way binding posts, get the generic posts from Madisound that will take a 10 gauge wire. The post studs will thread through the existing holes with no problems.

You DO NOT need uber-expensive wire to drive your speakers. The high end cable market is filled with sheisters and charlatans that cannot and will not prove their claims, because they cannot prove subjective psychological differences in spending/justifying large amounts of cash for good quality copper. OHM's LAW says that electrons follow the path of least resistance. Electrons don't know what frequency they are a part of...nor do they care, because I have asked them...lol...so don't fall for the flowery claims of skin effect, cable time time alignment, or other such BS, because it does not exist at audio frequencies according to actual rocket scientists at Cal Tech and JPL. I have actually asked those that have done work on the space program. Those guys are pretty smart, and our own Grumpy, here, is one of them.

[markd51]

I was thinking that if I had your system I would consider spending my money on my digital front end instead of "nice" speaker cables.

If this Wadia is really working up to spec it is probably a very nice sounding unit, but it doesn't offer any streaming capability. Having bitten the bullet and bought a high quality streaming DAC/Disc Spinner, I have found it such an upgrade I would not buy a digital front end without that capability.


Widget

That Wadia Player I linked to probably sounds better than what I own, but as some tell me, is that saying much?
I've been told that there's new stuff out there, that brand new, costs less than what this Wadia Player cost used, and will best the Wadia in sonic performance.

What I'm using is ancient CAL Audio gear, two Transports-DACs, a stock Delta Transport with a stock Sigma II Dac, and a modded Delta Transport by Great Northern Sound with all Blackgate Caps, Bybee Purifiers, and high speed rectification, and an Alpha (non 24/96) DAC. Both DACS use vintage 12AX7/5751 NOS Tubes.

They both sound good, but sure, today there is much better to be had.

[markd51]

If you need to replace the HH Smith spring loaded terminals...which you really don't...with 5 way binding posts, get the generic posts from Madisound that will take a 10 gauge wire. The post studs will thread through the existing holes with no problems.

You DO NOT need uber-expensive wire to drive your speakers. The high end cable market is filled with sheisters and charlatans that cannot and will not prove their claims, because they cannot prove subjective psychological differences in spending/justifying large amounts of cash for good quality copper. OHM's LAW says that electrons follow the path of least resistance. Electrons don't know what frequency they are a part of...nor do they care, because I have asked them...lol...so don't fall for the flowery claims of skin effect, cable time time alignment, or other such BS, because it does not exist at audio frequencies according to actual rocket scientists at Cal Tech and JPL. I have actually asked those that have done work on the space program. Those guys are pretty smart, and our own Grumpy, here, is one of them.

Yes, I understand what you say. Many of these uber expensive speaker cables sound good on paper, look beautiful, etc., but I understand some don't do all that well when it comes to capacitance and inductance specs.

Sure, I've heard the comments like, "wow, the improvements were as huge as a component upgrade", bla bla bla.
Well, maybe yes, and maybe no.

I do believe good interconnects are often worth the money spent within reason, especially a cable such as a Phono Cable that handles such a low voltage signal and is very prone to RFI-EMI.

[edgewound]

Yes, I understand what you say. Many of these uber expensive speaker cables sound good on paper, look beautiful, etc., but I understand some don't do all that well when it comes to capacitance and inductance specs.

Sure, I've heard the comments like, "wow, the improvements were as huge as a component upgrade", bla bla bla.
Well, maybe yes, and maybe no.

I do believe good interconnects are often worth the money spent within reason, especially a cable such as a Phono Cable that handles such a low voltage signal and is very prone to RFI-EMI.

If you don't need extreme flexibility like that of a guitar cable or microphone cable to play live, my preference for unbalanced interconnects is RG-6 Quadshield co-ax. Compression fit RCA connectors are available, and the cable is pennies per foot. 18 ga center conductor and excellent shielding.

[Mr. Widget]

RG6 quadshield is 75 ohm cable so it will work well for both analog and digital connections, but it is pretty darned stiff. I much prefer more flexible cable. That said, if you have the compression tool and correct ends, these cables are super quick to build and work well.

Circling back to the original topic, I think JeffW's suggestion of using a bolt (copper or brass would be best) to connect an adapter is likely the best option if one MUST use these cables. I'd find an alternative cable myself, but there are many reasons to choose a specific cable.


Widget

[markd51]

Was thinking as a brain fart, for such an adapter that could accept either Spade Lug, or Banana Plugs, that perhaps Speaker Binding Posts could be used?

Possible that some might have a small enough diameter Pin (where one usually solders a wire to) that might insert into some of the larger JBL Push Pin Speaker Connectors?

Here's a question I have out of curiosity, that you folks who are more experienced with many of the pro JBL Monitors of the past than I am, "did many or all of the 4300 Series Monitors as well have Push Pin Connectors?"

[Robh3606]

Just take a piece of 12 gauge and tin one side for the push pins and attach 5 ways to the other end Mount with stand offs. Just to give the idea you could use different posts and make you own mounting plate.

Rob :)


https://www.parts-express.com/Gold-Plated-Banana-5-Way-Speaker-Terminal-260-302?gclid=CjwKCAjwm7mEBhBsEiwA_of-TDBDtC6MITDa-5iEoSV2HIuAiIN0hATYmL6qdvmYpCwAaZ2qY3pAqxoCH-gQAvD_BwE

[markd51]

Just take a piece of 12 gauge and tin one side for the push pins and attach 5 ways to the other end Mount with stand offs. Just to give the idea you could use different posts and make you own mounting plate.

Rob :)


https://www.parts-express.com/Gold-Plated-Banana-5-Way-Speaker-Terminal-260-302?gclid=CjwKCAjwm7mEBhBsEiwA_of-TDBDtC6MITDa-5iEoSV2HIuAiIN0hATYmL6qdvmYpCwAaZ2qY3pAqxoCH-gQAvD_BwE

Yeah, I think that could work too. Best bet in any instance, insure whatever jerry rigged adapter made-used is heat shrinking any exposed metal parts to eliminate any possibilties of shorts,

Even if for say they were a pair of $3000 Speaker Cables, which of course it would be a cold day in hell where I'd blow anywhere near that, how big a detriment would any 3" or so DIY Adapter hurt? Well maybe a smidgen, but my system isn't in the Millionaire's club to worry my dopey little head over.

Not looking back here for reference if such was mentioned, but I believe I have seen Pin Adpaters for Banana Plugs.

I "might" one day entertain a pair of Kimber 8TC, or maybe even 12TC, "if" the price was right, and I'd prefer used, like new condition if possible. (Hey, I like saving a few Pesos when I can)

Being that my main Amps are Bryston Monoblocks, I doubt in any instance that I would need Cables longer than 8' long, and that even perhaps 6' long would be adequate in length for my needs.

Maybe one day, and I won't dare commit and say I might move past my 4430 Speakers, maybe buy another pair of Speakers, something different, (Wilson Grand Slamms lol) and any "good" Speaker Cabling I might buy, whatever mods I do, insure they are reversible.

I'd be a real idiot to hack the living shit out of a $350-$450 pair of Speaker Cables.88820

[SaturationPt]

I have been down this road, made adapters, fooled around with those and the additional connections that they create, IMO a hassle and an additional equipment risk.

In the end I simply found/bought binding posts that I install in the speaker cabinets in place of the original, that fit in the original terminals' holes (in case I ever want to return them to original) and install them in my vintage JBLs and Altecs. The adapters are in a box somewhere, good riddance. It took me around an hour to remove woofers and swap terminals to binding posts on a pair of speakers, which is a little more than the time it took to make up adapters and heat-shrink them, tin them, get everything just right. I of course save the original terminals.

Resistance is futile, do it right and you can use your favorite cables without additional connection points and risk of shorting.

Just my experience / opinion.

[markd51]

Well, I did do a bit of an speaker cable upgrade recently. I bought an 8' pair (2.5m) of Kimber Kable 12TC, factory terminated at both ends with Banana Plugs.

I didn't quite need 8', but figure a couple extra feet won't hurt anything, and thinking of the future, where different Amp(s) etc might be used, better to err on being a little too long, rather than too short.

At least with Banana Plugs, there are various Banana to Pin Adapters readily available that I can try.
That also if ever a new Speaker comes to my system, just merely slip the Adapters off is all.

I have much more audio gear besides the main system, the old Belden Cables can then be used in another second system if desired.

[markd51]

Well, I did do a bit of an speaker cable upgrade recently. I bought an 8' pair (2.5m) of Kimber Kable 12TC, factory terminated at both ends with Banana Plugs.

I didn't quite need 8', but figure a couple extra feet won't hurt anything, and thinking of the future, where different Amp(s) etc might be used, better to err on being a little too long, rather than too short.

At least with Banana Plugs, there are various Banana to Pin Adapters readily available that I can try.
That also if ever a new Speaker comes to my system, just merely slip the Adapters off is all.

I have much more audio gear besides the main system, the old Belden Cables can then be used in another second system if desired.

Sadly, I did not acquire those Kimber 12TC Speaker Cables that I bought. The seller mistakenly sent me 8TC Cables, thought they were the more expensive 12TC, and I then decided to return them for full refund, even though he was willing to knock another $200 off the price.

Thus I'll be keeping my eyes peeled for something else, or the same and will score something at some point.

Specific brands will probably be Kimber, Shunyata, or Audio Sensibility in Canada as my 3 top picks for such Cables.

[SEAWOLF97]

Long ago , I worked for Electric Lightwave Inc. ....one of the
20 ISP's actually on the backbone.

They were also a Telco and the big product was fiber optic cable upgrades.

Their big bugaboo was "the last mile"

IE: didn't matter how good/fast your cable product was if "the last mile" to the
consumer was copper. Local telco's control that, and do as they like.

I think that may be a good analogy to speaker cable.

So you've laid out big bux on uber expensive speaker cable. It connects to binding posts. What is on the inside from the posts to the drivers ???
Open it up and look , you may be disappointed to see what "the final mile" (probably less than 2 feet) is in there.

[Mr. Widget]

Using this analogy, I guess we better rip out the tinsel leads between the individual drivers’ binding posts and the voice coils too! :blink::D

Maybe the first and last miles aren’t that important since we aren’t passing GHz data? ;)



Widget

[markd51]

Using this analogy, I guess we better rip out the tinsel leads between the individual drivers’ binding posts and the voice coils too! :blink::D

Maybe the first and last miles aren’t that important since we aren’t passing GHz data? ;)



Widget

I understand what you gents say mostly. And I thank you again Widget for the PM also.

That for the short runs of Cable that I use, would a difference be heard, and that I largely agree that such fancy speaker cables might only come down to only having bragging rights is about all.


And as I touched somewhat upon in response to you, was, that although usually not an inexpensive upgrade, providing a/my system with dedicated electric service is usually never said to be a bad thing. Such might depend upon what is done? Current delivery is one aspect, and the other is freeing a system from being on the same line with appliances such as refrigerators-lights, etc.

I can remember the old house I was once living in, and seeing the lights dim when I'd turn up the volume dial.

And perhaps another area where audible improvements could be made is a good line conditioner, at least for source components. Again, some say good science, some say snake oil. Many claim good improvement due to hash-noise being removed that is on an electric line, others sometimes note a negative effect upon the music. Might depend upon the installation, and the type of conditioner used?

Other benefits could be surge protection.

[SEAWOLF97]

Maybe the first and last miles aren’t that important since we aren’t passing GHz data? ;)



Widget

their "last mile" problem was on the telco (voice) side , since their cable connects
to the local carrier's net.

The 'data stuff" usually bypasses that bottleneck.

[Mr. Widget]

their "last mile" problem was on the telco (voice) side , since their cable connects
to the local carrier's net.

The 'data stuff" usually bypasses that bottleneck.I was teasing, but today's data requirements are 1000 fold what they were when you were involved. Even compressed; video streaming is a serious bandwidth hog. Bend a Cat5e or Cat6 cable a bit too hard and watch your signal drop.

The "last mile" Cat3 or Cat5 of yore won't give you Netflix at all.


Widget

[markd51]

I might've mentioned it earlier in this thread, I have a boatload of new Canare 4S11 sitting somewhere in a box. Maybe 25'-30', maybe 50' I bought? I forget?

Not sure about having enough Techflex Sheathing for another DIY pair or 4 pair, but as you folks know, such nylon braided sheathing is just eye candy is all.

Connectors of choice are easily enough gotten if I don't have such. Have tons of shrink wrap on hand.

If I recall, Canare 4S11 is four 14ga Conductors woven in a starquad configuration, and the aggregate gauge per leg is a total of 9ga. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

I have heard it's a cable that takes a long time to break in, but one day might whip up a pair for kicks. Or make up some cables for another second system?

I have 4 JBL L-65 Jubals laying idly in their factory boxes. I wish to soon put those lovely speakers back into service and enjoy them again.

[grumpy]

11ga equiv if I’m reading the spec sheet right.

Some “rubber pants” would clean up the look of the ends.

I have some roughly similar old quad-conductor AQ cable that doesn’t seem to take away any of the music from my system. 4S11 should be just fine. From that product line, if I was paying for a new spool, I’d probably go with the 4S8 … it’s sufficient for short runs, less costly, I don’t have a massive sub array requiring extremely low loss, and it doesn’t have an ultrasonic squiggle in the frequency response… but a bird in the hand… :) would suggest using solder if that’s in your skillset vs crimp connectors, unless you have the proper tool designed for the specific connector or family (can be $$$$ relative to a one off cable).

Happy Hunting regarding the cables/power conditioning you seek.

[markd51]

11ga equiv if I’m reading the spec sheet right.

Some “rubber pants” would clean up the look of the ends.

I have some roughly similar old quad-conductor AQ cable that doesn’t seem to take away any of the music from my system. 4S11 should be just fine. From that product line, if I was paying for a new spool, I’d probably go with the 4S8 … it’s sufficient for short runs, less costly, I don’t have a massive sub array requiring extremely low loss, and it doesn’t have an ultrasonic squiggle in the frequency response… but a bird in the hand… :) would suggest using solder if that’s in your skillset vs crimp connectors, unless you have the proper tool designed for the specific connector or family (can be $$$$ relative to a one off cable).

Happy Hunting regarding the cables/power conditioning you seek.

As for power conditioning, this is what I want.

https://shunyata.com/products/power-distributors/performance-line-power-distributors/hydra-sigma-s12/

[SEAWOLF97]

I was teasing,

Widget

I'm no good at humor , maybe next time put a smiley behind it ?

[Mr. Widget]

I'm no good at humor , maybe next time put a smiley behind it ?
On the contrary... if I have to tell you it was a joke, I guess it wasn’t very funny. My apologies for sucking in the humor dept. (Where is the emoji for a sincere statement?)

On the subject of telco, AT&T is actively trying to kill off their traditional analog hybrid landline phone system. I can understand why as it is probably costly to maintain, but as part of our emergency infrastructure, I am not convinced that cellular service is quite as reliable or a suitable alternative.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

On the contrary... if I have to tell you it was a joke, I guess it wasn’t very funny. My apologies for sucking in the humor dept. (Where is the emoji for a sincere statement?)

On the subject of telco, AT&T is actively trying to kill off their traditional analog hybrid landline phone system. I can understand why as it is probably costly to maintain, but as part of our emergency infrastructure, I am not convinced that cellular service is quite as reliable or a suitable alternative.


Widget

IF they killed off POTS (which I doubt they can) ,be OK with me.
I'm a hermit and rarely even use it.

'cides , I'm learning to pee in Morse Code (comes naturally) , you may
understand in the future ..;)