Lumber prices!!!

[RMC]

Bad news for speaker builders i guess...

Picked up a news item a couple days ago from a Canadian construction contractors association. Lumber price increases have simply gone crazy when compared from pre-Covid to now, so in about a year.

They indicated that on average wood price has gone up by 125%! Citing lockdowns, curfews, Covid restrictions, as the explanation, making forest workers and lumber mills work at a imited pace. This while demand is very high both in Canada and USA for housing projects, Canada also exporting lots of lumber to the US.

Two specific price increase examples were given in the article. First, 4X8' sheet of 1/2" plywood which sold for $21.CA now goes for $40.CA . Second, a piece of 2X4"X8' previously selling for $2.89 CA now sells for $6.49 CA !

They added this ain't over since lumber shortages are in sight not too far away. They are talking about importing lumber from Europe. Well, that won't be a deal either, my bank is asking $1.60 CA for one Euro, a 60% exchange rate, then add shipping costs for all that lumber from Europe to Canada... Maybe to the US also.

Since the pandemic is around for a while according to experts, it seems speaker builders will have to put the hand deeper and deeper in their pocket, i.e. PAY much more to play.

My preferred for larger boxes (never use particle board) is 7-ply British Columbia Fir plywood (one of the hardest "soft wood"). End of March 2019 Depot was selling a sheet for $62. CA (kept a note of that), though thickness stamped on it was initially 19 mm, went down to 18.7, at last look was 18.3 mm, so i figure 18 mm or less next time?

Haven't checked price on it recently, but in the above pandemic context not sure i even want to know...

Richard

[macaroonie]

A sheet of 18mm Baltic birch is now £70 for aa/bb ie one good face , other with patches

[RMC]

Hi Mac,

Thanks for the input.

Last time i checked pricing locally on the sheet you describe was before the pandemic, say 12-18 months ago, it was $100. CA.

I don't even dare looking now, might not be good for my blood pressure, lol . Regards,

Richard

[RMC]

Saw on Bloomberg Business News today an update on the lumber pricing situation.

Well, on the Chicago commodities exchange, where lumber is traded, the futures hit a new record high! As their name implies futures indicate the direction of the market price wise in the coming months. No break in sight... :(

Wonder if i could trade some snow at Chicago exchange, yeah the real stuff not the one you sniff otherwise i'd keep it, got about 6' high on front yard grass and getting short on space, could offer a good price, shipping not included... :)

[RMC]

UPDATE

Was at the local Home Depot yesterday for something else, but at the same time checked pricing on lumber since been a few months...

* Plywood sheet, Std, 3/4", $98.98 Can (for $3. more you get the better one under).

* Plywood sheet, Fir, 18.3 mm, very nice one side, $102. Can (my preferred for mid or large speaker boxes).

* Plywood sheet, Std, 3/8 or 1/2", can't remember for sure thickness but its one of those two, $50.

* 2X3, regular, $8.95 or so; same but Select, about $10.

* 2X4, regular, about $10.; same but Select, around $12.

* Wood fence board, nominal 1X6" 5 ft. (actual say 1/2-5/8" X 5 1/4-5 1/2"), about $8.

Naturally, all the above prices are taxes extra. Covid prices rip off. And they said recently that prices had started to come down, What? In that context, glad to have a fair amount of lumber in stock, daughter/husband recently bought a house (also at crazy price), there's work and repairs to do, so they shop from me for lumber, etc. since mine is free, lol.

[macaroonie]

2 x 6 CLS C24grade 4.8 mtr £24 at trade supplier

[SEAWOLF97]

I have NO real experience buying lumber lately, BUT

there was a news story today that "prices have dropped abt 30% from the highest recent level" ( which I'm sure is still way too high ) :eek:

[RMC]

Thanks guys for the input.

Mac: not sure its time yet to bang the beer mugs for speaker builders... with such costs no money left for beer, sniff. Or you do without lumber, then have lots of money left for beer! :bouncy:

Wolf: i don't see yet where's the 30% price drop and you're right its still way too high. Maybe the futures on Chicago commodities exchange have gone down, however in-store prices are still very high, may take time.

This ain't imported stuff, Canada is loaded with forests, wood and has many lumber mills. These often get it from Govt/public forests for a low cost. Recently a news org. did a helicopter survey! of lumber mill yards in some regions to see stocks. Films showed yards being pretty packed!! Now say they lack labour due to Covid payments to people for them to stay home...

But one industry executive sort of talked too much when he said, you know lumber prices were low for many years, now they're more in line (with what industry likes to see). In the new normal guess we have to expect that lumber cost will remain relatively high for a while... :(

[1audiohack]

With lumber prices where they are I am thinking about parting my house out and rebuilding with brick!

Barry.

[RMC]

LOL, thanks Barry had a good laugh. Never thought about this...

[Cyclotronguy]

8926189262

[RMC]

WOW, as bad where you are as it is around here...

[Robh3606]

I had part of my fence get blown down in a storm. Pricing replacements @ $97 a section. Think I will wait!

Rob:)

[RMC]

Canada's British Columbia, a major lumber producer also selling to the US, is on fire from thousands of lightning strikes! 300 active forest fires. Bet this will become the next reason for short supply and jacking up the prices again... :(

[BMWCCA]

When we built our new home about three-years ago in Virginia, I was surprised to see our 2x4s came from Stora Enso in Austria labeled "quality No2", and our 2x6s from Vida in Sweden labeled "Premium". The product quality was visually striking compared to what I see at our local consumer lumber yards; clean, smooth, straight, with no missing edges, knots, etc.

I don't believe my builder consciously picked these brands beyond using his supplier about 40-miles away for the delivery. I didn't get the idea that it was cheaper than domestic, but I was impressed with the quality. Since we were on a fixed-price bid, it was incumbent upon my builder to save money where he could and we had no specification for what lumber he was to use. So, I have to assume the imported materials were competitive with domestic lumber on price at that time. It was labeled as pine/spruce but the quality looked like those birch building blocks I played with as a kid. Our flooring, underlayment, and roofing plywood was all domestically sourced, and our trusses were built-to-order from a manufacturer about 70-miles away and looked to be made of the same wood products you'd expect from a lumber yard. That is knots, missing edges, and worse. In one case we chose to remake one piece of a roof truss ourselves because the wood just looked compromised.

A new home under construction across the street from our old house got a delivery of Stora Enso wood just last week, so it must still be competitively priced—or better. I just find it odd that even with shipping across the Atlantic Ocean that something as heavy as wood could be competitively priced with domestic lumber. And yet lumber manufacturers here say the rise in prices is simply an adjustment in the market that puts them closer to where it always should have been. :dont-know:

[Odd]

Stora Enso is a Finnish-Swedish company and the world's second largest forest industry group.


From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso)

[BMWCCA]

Stora Enso is a Finnish-Swedish company and the world's second largest forest industry group.


From Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stora_Enso)
Didn't read your link but I remember researching them three-years ago and found them to be considered the world's oldest corporation.

[RMC]

In North America construction lumber is mostly bought on price, not quality. A 2X4 is a 2X4, nothing more than this in people's view. Most of them don't know and don't care about type of wood used or quality. So lumber mills and big box stores sell us a lot of average stuff, price matters.

Some lumber (e.g. 2X4) is stamped "SFP" which means it can be made of Spruce, Fir or Pine. Pine is the lighter and softer of the three (low density) one i try to avoid in a stack, just by handling it you know (pretty low weight). The heaviest of the three is fir (higher density giving higher mass), also the hardest, more rigid one i try to get in a bunch at the store. Handling weight is a good indicator. As you figured Spruce is somewhere in between these two.

Their dimensions also schrink. Clever mills, removing 1/32, 1/16 or 1/8" on thickness here and there. Similar to speaker impedance, the advertised figure is only a nominal number... For years we were sold regular 11/16" plywood as 3/4" thick. Some months before Covid i came across real 3/4", i was so surprised (imagine) that i bought some to put in my stock! Still have some of that 11/16"

Fir plywood sheet used to be 19 mm thick, went down to 18.7 mm, now 18.3 mm as indicated on the sheets here. Might well be 18 mm or less next time i purchase some...

2X4" has been 1 1/2 X 3 1/2" for years, but not long ago saw at depot 1 3/8 X 3 3/8" another little cheat. Even saw some 2X3" that were not 8' long, missing about 3". These are not accidents they know what they're doing, lumber mills are highly computerized and the computer decides how the tree will be cut to maximize number of pieces.

RE BMW Post# 15

With the Euro worth about 1.18 US (or the other way around $1 USD worth about 0.82 Euro) plus shippig across the Atlantic its pretty difficult to make money on that lumber. Either Stora gets the trees free from Sweden land or Sweden doesn't use the Euro but rather its own weaker currency ( i think they may), or a combination of the two, or its dumping? (selling cheaper elsewhere than in your own country).

Since BMW refers to Sweden, i have three lengths left of Swedish 2X4 (had 10 or so; shown on pic), got them from working for a European company. They are 1 5/8" thick and 4" wide! Compare this to the above ones. They have some knots, finish is ok but not as nice as BMW describes for his. I got them free can't complain.

The finish (knots, etc.) also depends on the type of trees being used. Canadian construction lumber uses mostly SFP, what the country has most i guess.

RE And yet lumber manufacturers here say the rise in prices is simply an adjustment in the market that puts them closer to where it always should have been.

Yup, $$$$$$$$$

89294

[SEAWOLF97]

Oregon has a tree or two ...

Vast majority are Douglas Fir, and that's what we usually get.

When building my 60ft. patio a couple of years back , did all buying at Home Deep-Poo , as i get a disabled Vet discount there.

I'd sift thru the 2x4's for best, wasn't that hard ... about 10% were not up to my needs, for one reason or other. I'd lay them on the floor and check for straightness. That & knots were the biggest defects.

Still have the receipts ... 2x4x8 's were $2.97

[RMC]

Sure Oregon as lot of trees, so does Maine. Use to watch Oregon lumber jacks program on TV, but don't see them anymore.

Douglas Fir is nice, also found in B.C. One of the hardest among "soft woods". Pine too soft, good for moldings and that sort of detail stuff.

When need a number of studs or boards bring wife with me, boss is pretty good at discarding the poor ones in a pile.

$2.97 yup the good old days now.....

[BMWCCA]

$2.97 yup the good old days now.....
2 x 4 x 8 at Home Despot currently: Spruce framing $5.98 here.

[SEAWOLF97]

Douglas Fir is nice, also found in B.C. One of the hardest among "soft woods". Pine too soft, good for moldings and that sort of detail stuff..

"hard/soft wood" has nothing to do with HARDNESS.

It's whether deciduous or not.

BALSA is classified as a "hard wood"

Wood is often classified into two categories including hardwood and softwood. But, the difference between these two types of wood isn’t in their name. That is, hardwood isn’t necessarily denser than softwood.

For instance, yew wood is classified as a softwood but is considerably tougher than certain hardwoods. Likewise, balsa wood is classified as a hardwood and yet it’s one of the least dense and softest types of wood.

https://www.horizonwood.com/hardwood-vs-softwood-understanding-the-difference-part-1/

Why is pine a softwood?

Softwoods have no visible pores, which means that they don't display the prominent grain seen in hardwoods. ... You can identify most hardwoods due to their broad leaves, while softwoods usually have needles and cones. Examples of softwood trees include: Pine.

[Champster]

I just got word on the home I'm building that lumber prices should see some significant reductions toward the end of August. It all depends on how long it takes to sell the existing inventory.

[RMC]

BMW

$5.98 US not that bad these days, still twice what Wolf paid, but about half what i saw at local Depot recently...

WOLF

CANFOR (often stamped on wood; easy to figure what it means) is a big lumber producer in B.C., announced yesterday it was reducing production due to forest fires in BC (still 267 active). BC Govt also announced, following new weather forecast, the forest fires situation will get even worst before getting better! Other Provinces dispatching to BC lot more specialized forest firefighters. This is really serious. (CTV News)

As i said before would not be surprised supply goes down and prices back up again due to BC's size in the North American lumber products industry... Guess similar situation in Oregon with fires there too. Since demand is high and supply has its limits, if one or two big ones fall "offline" you get a crisis.

Sitka Forest Products is a known name here in the industry and is where i took my SFP info (see pics, plus arrow on Fir). The only questionable item in the pic is "for a modest price", lol. Some new house buyers were told by their contractor $30-50K MORE due to lumber price increases. Pocket change i guess.

I have a fair amount of various lumber in stock, handle many and can assure you that hardness and weight are different between Fir and Pine, and density is the probable reason for this (mass = density X volume; can't escape that one). My comparisons involved the same volumes. Main advantages of pine, works easily (being "soft") and finishes well.

A small lumber mill in the region recently converted his specialty/exotic lumber operation, to a construction lumber maker outfit, he said to help in the lumber shortage. Well, not "helping" at $3. or so for a 2X4", no no. Rather $10. and customer has to pick it up himself at the mill! Clear he wanted to be part of the action $$$$$$.

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