JBL, 2225H can it be used in a hifi speaker setup?

[mtolesen]

Hello,

I have possibility to buy a set of used JBL, 2225H woofers, and i always wanted to build a pair of nice JBL Studio monitor like DIY speakers for hifi.
Do you think the JBL, 2225H can be used for this, will it sound good in a hifi setup, that reason i ask is that i think this woofer are designed for more concert use than hifi, but what is your take on this, and if not good, what specs shall i look for in a good woofer for hifi?

Thanks
Martin
Denmark

[Mr. Widget]

Will the 2225H work? Yes. Is it a first choice? No.
The 2235H is much better and is what JBL used in their 80s and 90s studio monitors.

If you can get them and the price is acceptable, I strongly urge you to look at the 2216ND. This is the current JBL studio monitor woofer and is lightyears ahead of all that preceded it.


Widget

[Riley Casey]

Yes, no, maybe. The general consensus is that the 2225s are not suitable for studio monitor use as their Fs is 40 hz and not as good a low frequency performer as say a 2235 driver. That said if you are really aiming at using your speakers for home stereo playback at home listening levels AND you are willing to employ some step down equalization then the 225s can easily be tuned to be perfectly good low frequency components in a custom designed enclosure. I listen to 2226s as my low frequency drivers every day. I don't have a need for output down to 30hz but with a well tuned enclosure and some DSP I get good response to 35 hz.

[ompdiburi]

Yes, no, maybe. The general consensus is that the 2225s are not suitable for studio monitor use as their Fs is 40 hz and not as good a low frequency performer as say a 2235 driver. That said if you are really aiming at using your speakers for home stereo playback at home listening levels AND you are willing to employ some step down equalization then the 225s can easily be tuned to be perfectly good low frequency components in a custom designed enclosure. I listen to 2226s as my low frequency drivers every day. I don't have a need for output down to 30hz but with a well tuned enclosure and some DSP I get good response to 35 hz.

My opinion is that we often don't take in account the listening room. My experience is this: I have two speakers similar to the 4344 equipped with two 2215 woofers, the past year I blown one woofer due to amplifier fault, so I installed two 2226J I had waiting for another project, in my listening room the difference is not that big. So the question is, are you sure that your room allow to go down, let's say at 30 HZ? Using REW I discover interesting things about rooms response.
In this case I can say that is possible to use a 2225/6 for hifi use.
Giuliano

[Mr. Widget]

My opinion is that we often don't take in account the listening room. Good point on the room and also what music you listen to.

Most chamber music and 50-70s rock have very little bass below 40Hz. I listen to a much wider variety of music than that so I find a response not getting to 30Hz disappointing. If you are into organ music or modern electronic music you will want even deeper bass extension.

Back to the rooms: Smaller rooms will typically reinforce the low end more than larger rooms, and then there are losses related to windows, doors, and construction techniques... so yes, the room will play a big roll here.

On the topic of which woofer to choose, this depends on budget, availability, and how picky you are. In the line up of JBL 15" woofers, I have owned and used 2215s (LE15As), K130s, 2220s, 2225s, 2235Hs, 1500ALs, 1501ALs, and numerous non-JBLs and woofers of other sizes. I have used all of these woofers in two channel home music systems.

They all have their purpose. The 2225H is not a bad woofer at all and doesn't need to be limited solely to concert duty, same with the 2226H. That said, neither would be my first choice for high quality music playback in the home.


Widget

[grumpy]

... and the 2225 is one of several readily available JBL drivers that can be reconed as a 2234H or 2235H :)

[Mr. Widget]

... and the 2225 is one of several readily available JBL drivers that can be reconed as a 2234H or 2235H :)I purposely failed to mention that since factory kits are NLA, but it is a good point.


Widget

[grumpy]

Indeed... seems like they’ve gone NLA, then back to A at least once already. :dont-know:
perhaps those days are gone.


I purposely failed to mention that since factory kits are NLA, but it is a good point.


Widget

[RMC]

Hi Martin,

The 2225H is a sound reinforcement driver replacing the 2205H.

In sound reinforcement efficiency (a large contributor to max output SPL) is more important than linearity.

The mid band efficiency of such drivers is often increased at the expense of VLF capability, which explains why many of these drivers will have more difficulty in reproducing the last bottom octave.

Nothing wrong with those woofers its simply that they were optimized for a specific application (SR).

2225H has 3.5% efficiency with 97 db sensitivity and the same numbers for 2235H are 1.3% with 93 db.

In SR terms the 2225 would make as much "noise" as the 2235 while using about half the power (0.4). Or for the same power the 2225 would produce 4 db more output (not necessarily at VLF).

Then you decide if VLF reproduction and linearity are more important to you than gross output (SPL).

Richard

[toddalin]

If you've been listening to the 2225, the 2235 will suck the life out of your vocals.

I've never been happy with the 2205s reconed as 2235s with factory kits in my system.

BTW, when they were reconed, they were remagged (AlNiCo). I was dissatisfied.

Grumpy came over and we ran WT-2 and the BL was a just bit low from factory spec. All other specs were now similar to the 2235 specs. I had them remagged again, no charge, and the BL came up to a bit higher than factory spec. Still sounded the same though.

I prefer the 2241H.

[Eaulive]

Hello,

I have possibility to buy a set of used JBL, 2225H woofers, and i always wanted to build a pair of nice JBL Studio monitor like DIY speakers for hifi.
Do you think the JBL, 2225H can be used for this, will it sound good in a hifi setup,

If you're planning to use discrete amplification and active EQ, I say yes, by all means.
Like others mentioned, the 2225 will have less low frequency extension than a 2235, but that does not mean it will drop like a rock below 40Hz, with some EQ and the right enclosure it will definitely go there.... at the expense of output power, but we're talking about home use right? :D
Can it be used as a drop-in replacement in the same enclosure with the same crossover and EQ, no, it will have less LF output and higher midrange than the 2235.

I used a 2044 instead of a 2245 in a 4345 sized enclosure, and with some adjustments they are _very_ satisfying.

[DanMan]

Hello,I have possibility to buy a set of used JBL, 2225H woofers, and i always wanted to build a pair of nice JBL Studio monitor like DIY speakers for hifi.ThanksMartinDenmarkSo did you ever get your 2225H in the hi-fi setup?

[maxwedge]

I'm in between systems right now and running a 3-way with two 2225H per side, well not really 2225 but D140F's that I traded for some Gauss that I had in the 80's. I had them reconed to 2225Hs in 84. Using them in cabs that I built at the same time, 8 cu ft similar to JBl cinema stuff of the time. I have the bottom 15 running as a helper falling off at 80hz 12db/octave LR filter. All active using DBX Venu 360s. Above those are M2 wave guides w/2450SL w/beryllium diaphragms and 2405's above those. Quite adequate for 95% of rock music and more. I have subwoofers for movies. They can kick some serious ass!

[maxwedge]

http://i.imgur.com/63KKlnM.jpg (https://imgur.com/63KKlnM) Cabs are crappy but well braced tuned to ~38Hz.

[Mr. Widget]

They can kick some serious ass!I bet!

Thanks for sharing... always fun to see what everyone is up to.


Widget

[maxwedge]

I bet! Thanks for sharing... always fun to see what everyone is up to. Widget Still have that Marantz that you sold me, long ago! :) The 2225 has incredible mid range and better than the 2245/2206 combo I was running before. I've been listening to a lot of Johnny Cash lately and the clarity just blows me away!The 2245 had better bottom but this is very good.

[1audiohack]

That just looks fun. :)

Barry.

[Robh3606]

No wonder they were running!!!! LOL bet it sounds great! So you like to have the occasional blast session?? Your not alone!

Rob :)

[maxwedge]

Yeah, I like to crank it up on the weekends and go outside to do my yard work lol! The cabs are crap but well built particle board braced with 2x4 and fiber glassed. I built them in 84 when I was 28 and were based out of a JBL booklet that I found but just guessed on the ports from what was suggested. They don't match to what is in the "JBL PROFESSIONAL ENCLOSURE GUIDE" for 8 cu ft so I don't know what guide I used. Now I know how to figure out actual cabinet tunning and had to block 2 of the ports to get them close to 40hz!

[Mr. Widget]

Still have that Marantz that you sold me, long ago! :) Great to hear!
I'm not sure I have much of the same gear I was using then. Thinking about it, it may be time for me to simplify things a bit.

I love the rough and tumble look of your system. It looks badass.


Widget

[DerekTheGreat]

Very cool looking set up! Reminds me of my own. Where did you get that entertainment center? I'd be looking to get something very similar, seeing as I'll have four amplifiers to find a home for fairly soon, not to mention everything else I've got to find a home for. One cabinet will no longer do. However, I'd like something that offers some height as bending over or getting on my knees to clean records and the stylus of my turntable every time I play a side isn't something that will encourage said turntable to gather dust.

[maxwedge]

I built the rack myself out of 3/4 mdf. 3 bays of 14 space but the rails are 12 space centered. I started with some feet on the bottom but when I put the amps in it would flex in the center so I took them off and just slide it on the floor if I need to get behind it. Our hardwood is trash so I don't really care but I should glue a large piece of felt on the bottom, LOL! Thanks and thank you too Widget.

[maxwedge]

Great to hear! I'm not sure I have much of the same gear I was using then. Thinking about it, it may be time for me to simplify things a bit. I love the rough and tumble look of your system. It looks badass. Widget I'm attached to these 2225s like 1st born but not the cabinets. The cabs are well built with 2x4, screws & glue but are particle board junk and will get destroyed after I build new ones for my 2216Nds that I have (4!). I agree that the cabs match the floors with the clear fiberglass but they do have black grills that i keep on them.

[maxwedge]

I little video of my 2225's. This should change any myth about not being useful for HiFi. :dont-know: Listen on your pc, not phone btw. https://www.instagram.com/p/Cuxi8A_gLcIPRjzcNu55UildYIV0BcIm7FZyr00/

[Earl K]

I little video of my 2225's. This should change any myth about not being useful for HiFi. :dont-know: Listen on your pc, not phone btw. https://www.instagram.com/p/Cuxi8A_gLcIPRjzcNu55UildYIV0BcIm7FZyr00/

Hi Scott,

Nice to see all the love for the venerable 2225. ( I would never cut-out cones from a well-working 2225 just to recone to 2235's >> that's just plain silly in my world >> especially when one has pristine Voice-coils wound by those US-based magicians located in CA )

BTW; Your video doesn't appear to be active at that link ( + I would like to hear it ).

Here's what I see;

[maxwedge]

I'm an Instagram rookie, It seems that I can't share a video via a link. Well see if this works but It might not be viewable because I'm playing Jimi Hendrix! Copyrighted material! :mad: https://youtu.be/lfVKZe79tAA

[Earl K]

Thanks!!

Wow! Sounds Great on my little powered Roland AV-cubes.

That setup has excellent live sound dynamics and true tone.

Now I wish I had room for double 2225's.

BTW, love the opening tour with the camera coming through from the back yard.

:)

[maxwedge]

Thanks Earl, I don't have room for them either LOL! :) I had them pretty well cranked but there was more to be had! Easily 3 db more but that was loud. The bottom two 15's are boosting the bottom and start rolling off around 80Hz @ 12db/oct. The cabs are not ideal as the woofers share the same space but they are together where it matters, down low and I have no cone excursion issues higher up. Using a steep HP at 34Hz 48db/oct. This is all temporary until I build cabs for my 2216Nd's but I sure like the "helper woofer" design.

[turnitdown]

How high will the 2241 play? Specs look interesting for a...two way?

[1audiohack]

In my unhumble opinion they don’t sound good past 300 Hz.

You might be able to make a two way something that doesn’t play super loud with a big horn like the 2360 or 2365 horn but cramming a 12” in the middle would be my preference.

Barry.

[sebackman]

Hi mtolesen,

I agree on all the above and that there are better (modern) woofers that are generally "better", but in the right context the 2225 is no slouch. For non PA I often prefer it to 2226.

What speakers are you looking at building, active or passive, budget, size limitations, amplification, room size, music preference?

It is normally a budget/goal issue. No need to push for "11" unless the chosen design and other components support that.

True the 2225 will not get you the lowest octave but can to some extend be "rescued" with DSP and to "under port" them. Limited excursion will reduce output down there though. But they are cheap, so just get more of them if the real estate permits (like Scotts example).

The 2235 will give you the low end but at a cost of midrange performance (above 400Hz). Its all compromises.

In a 4-way I would use VLF woofer designed for the very low end (2235 or alike) as the mid range above will reduce negative midrange impact from the VLF woofer (as in some of the 70's JBL studio monitors).

If building a 2- or 3-way meeting a driver/horn combo above the woofer, I would rather go for a 2225 and sacrifice the bottom end for better mids above 400Hz (assuming a normal size horn/driver with an XO of 800-1200Hz).

You can also add a rather basic VLF low frequency sub to deal with frequencies below 40Hz. If well integrated it will be difficult to detect down there and generally do not affect perceived system quality, from my experience (masking). If you XO higher at THX 80Hz or above it will. But there is no problem getting the 2225 down to 40 Hz. This would of course imply active XO.

2216 is one of the few drivers that can do both and that is available.

Scott, I see you came to the same conclusion as I in that 4" BE's on M2's need UHF. Stylish and aggressive system :-) . Cool.

There are many roads to Nirvana and that is the beauty of our hobby :-)

My 25 cents
//Rob

[maxwedge]

Scott, I see you came to the same conclusion as I in that 4" BE's on M2's need UHF. Stylish and aggressive system :-) . Cool. There are many roads to Nirvana and that is the beauty of our hobby :-) Sorry for the late reply, I've been back to riding Bicycles again. I prefer the Be over the SL and swapped several times even though UHF is needed. I don't even have any eq on this hodge podge and it sounds great in my crappy living room but I have tweaked delay and levels extensively.