4333 build

[quindecima]

Due to downsizing needs I need to make a change from my 4355's that I built and am thinking 4333's would be nice. I can use the existing components from the speakers I have now but am wondering if using the cross would be effective. I have a nice cross from a well known member here and am wondering if just not hooking up the "not needed" components would work. :confused: :confused:

[Mr. Widget]

Are you asking if you can use a 3155 network in a 4333?


Widget

[johnlcnm]

Not that I am a welled healed JBL aficionado, but I highly recommend the Nelson Pass charge coupled crossover network. I am using it in my current 4333B's. You might also consider replacing the 2235/2231 with the JBL 2216nd. I think it is a much improved driver that reproduces the bass and lower mids with greater clarity.

Regards,
John

[quindecima]

Not that I am a welled healed JBL aficionado, but I highly recommend the Nelson Pass charge coupled crossover network. I am using it in my current 4333B's. You might also consider replacing the 2235/2231 with the JBL 2216nd. I think it is a much improved driver that reproduces the bass and lower mids with greater clarity.

Regards,
John


O.K. I will check that out and consider it. I would have no problems selling my 2235's thats for sure

[quindecima]

Are you asking if you can use a 3155 network in a 4333?


Widget
actually I considered that but only for a short time.

[ivica]

Due to downsizing needs I need to make a change from my 4355's that I built and am thinking 4333's would be nice. I can use the existing components from the speakers I have now but am wondering if using the cross would be effective. I have a nice cross from a well known member here and am wondering if just not hooking up the "not needed" components would work. :confused: :confused:

Hi quindecima,

(Ex)Changing 2202 to 2123 (or similar) and having in mind 4344-II , I think, would be a better solution then 4333, off-course using 2441 with 2311&2308 horn would be very good solution. I think that, under such conditions, 2235 bass would be quite good solution.
The size of the 4333 vs 4344 box is marginal, except the height of the box.

regards
ivica

[Challenger604]

Due to downsizing needs I need to make a change from my 4355's that I built and am thinking 4333's would be nice. I can use the existing components from the speakers I have now but am wondering if using the cross would be effective. I have a nice cross from a well known member here and am wondering if just not hooking up the "not needed" components would work. :confused: :confused:

Hi there,
I just finished my 4333’s and did the Nelson Pass crossover.

I still have my 55’s but the 33’s are for my living room.

you will like it. Still very impressive speakers.

I hope you’re well!
C

[Mr. Widget]

Pretty Nice!

Congratulations!


Widget

[hoschibill]

Very nice. I like it :thmbsup:.

[Challenger604]

Pretty Nice!

Congratulations!


Widget


Thank you!!

[highcut28]

Really nice Challenger 604
How does one get build plans for the 4333?

[Challenger604]

Really nice Challenger 604
How does one get build plans for the 4333?

You can find it here! Easily available. Just need to figure out the deepness. Same than the 55’s actually...

The line 2405 2420 (tel:2405 2420) and hole is 1/4 inch lower than supposed to. But it’s ok, I can live with it...

[highcut28]

Sorry can someone point me in the right direction. I want to build 4333 cabs for 2235H,LE85/H92, 077.
Need the specific plans. Ta



You can find it here! Easily available. Just need to figure out the deepness. Same than the 55’s actually...

The line 2405 2420 (tel:2405 2420) and hole is 1/4 inch lower than supposed to. But it’s ok, I can live with it...

[JeffW]

Try this thread

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10273-4333-layout-dimensions-needed

[highcut28]

with Thanks :thmbsup:


Try this thread

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10273-4333-layout-dimensions-needed

[quindecima]

[QUOTE=Challenger604;432466]Hi there,
I just finished my 4333’s and did the Nelson Pass crossover.

I still have my 55’s but the 33’s are for my living room.

you will like it. Still very impressive speakers.

I hope you’re well!

Still good and looking thru some of my stuff the other day I still have those connectors I was going to send to you, send me your address again.

[quindecima]

Anybody know where I can get the L pads for the 4333's?

[tjm001]

Anybody know where I can get the L pads for the 4333's?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153892665941

[quindecima]

O.K. I am going to take my DIY 4355's apart for the 4333 build. I will have a pair of 2235's, & 2202's and a very nice cross made by a well-known member here who I am certain does not want me to mention his name. If you wish to see pics email me.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The 4333 is what it is.

Compared to the 4355 it’s not as accurate or as sensitive.

If you only play pop or rock it’s fine.

The main problem is the mis match of the woofer and the horn dispersion at the crossover point. Jbl point this out in the 4430/4435 white paper.

If you want a superior loudspeaker buy the 2344/A bum horn (from Jamin Jersey) and re-do the front panel. If your keen remove the mass ring in the 2235H to convert it to a 2234H. This is a game changer in terms of mid range definition and a few dB more sensitivity.
Add a few dB of boost at 30 hertz and you have a very nice monitor that has served the recording industry for decades. This design is arguably better than the 4355 where very high output levels are not required. The networks are available on the www.

[Riley Casey]

Might want to hang on to those 2202s if youre thinking of getting some 2344 horns. The 2202 crossed in to a 2344 with the one inch driver of your choice ( I’ve use 2426s for years ) is imho a much better mid band combination than the transition from a 15 to a one inch driver. Crossing out of your bass driver below 400 hz also means not modulating your mid frequencies on a cone that might be trying to produce 30 hz at the same time.


The 4333 is what it is.

Compared to the 4355 it’s not as accurate or as sensitive.

If you only play pop or rock it’s fine.

The main problem is the mis match of the woofer and the horn dispersion at the crossover point. Jbl point this out in the 4430/4435 white paper.

If you want a superior loudspeaker buy the 2344/A bum horn (from Jamin Jersey) and re-do the front panel. If your keen remove the mass ring in the 2235H to convert it to a 2234H. This is a game changer in terms of mid range definition and a few dB more sensitivity.
Add a few dB of boost at 30 hertz and you have a very nice monitor that has served the recording industry for decades. This design is arguably better than the 4355 where very high output levels are not required. The networks are available on the www.

[speakerdave]

It escapes me why you would go to a three-way 4333 when you could fit a near-clone four-way 4344mk II into the same floor space using only components from your 4355 build, though I would get some 2123 cores and have them rebuilt to use in place of the 2202. Nelson Pass, the designer of the oft-mentioned crossover for the 4333 has himself gone to a four-way--a pair of 4343's. :dont-know::dont-know:

Or you could sell all of your 2235's and use LE14-3's and go smaller.

I'm just suggesting the midrange accuracy of a four-way may be missed.

[quindecima]

O.K. I guess I wasn't thinking ahead enough, I can do that. Lead me to the NP cross please or since I am using the same components (almost) can I use the one I have?

[quindecima]

The 4333 is what it is.

Compared to the 4355 it’s not as accurate or as sensitive.

If you only play pop or rock it’s fine.

The main problem is the mis match of the woofer and the horn dispersion at the crossover point. Jbl point this out in the 4430/4435 white paper.

If you want a superior loudspeaker buy the 2344/A bum horn (from Jamin Jersey) and re-do the front panel. If your keen remove the mass ring in the 2235H to convert it to a 2234H. This is a game changer in terms of mid range definition and a few dB more sensitivity.
Add a few dB of boost at 30 hertz and you have a very nice monitor that has served the recording industry for decades. This design is arguably better than the 4355 where very high output levels are not required. The networks are available on the www.

I totally respect your opinion Ian but removing the mass ring means a re-cone, I would have to give that a lot of thought.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Actually only removal of the dust cap and replace.

All the options are entirely up to you and what you feel comfortable with.

My suggestion was to keep it was simple as possible. The idea of something like a 4 way is a lot of work and it’s complicated.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I heard a pair of bi amped 4331 monitors at Greg Timber’s Biamped with stock drivers using one of my analogue active crossovers. We were quite impressed after some tweaks to the in room response.

They were up on drink crates which really lifted the performance.

If your the thinking type of audio buff your diy efforts can be well rewarded.
Some of Greg Timber’s most revered systems started out in his garage. Greg’s garage is one of the most well equipped l have seen.
.
In the diy space there is scope of all manner of variations and quality horns available by people such as Joseph Crowe Audio.

It comes back to what you want and the effort your preparing put into such a project.

[speakerdave]

If you are using the redrawn GT/Giskard/widget 3155 crossover, that is the crossover Giskard/4313b used in his 4345 build with 2123, large format treble on 2311 and 2405 uhf. If you use a 2235 and 2123, you would use the 4344 box. If you keep the 2202, you'd need to expand the cabinet to account for the larger dog box.

[Ian Mackenzie]

The thing is will that size enclosure fit in with the down sized situation and WAF?

This is where l admire JBLs marketing department.

Big enclosure and lots of cables is not going to impress everyone.

Perhaps a small mid bass enclosure and a sub would make more sense.

[macaroonie]

I totally respect your opinion Ian but removing the mass ring means a re-cone, I would have to give that a lot of thought.

No need for a recone. The mass ring lives at the the top of the voice coil former just under the dust cap.
To remove the dust cap using an xacto knife with a fresh blade cut round the glue line just below the top edge of the glue line. Continue all the way around but leave about 1/4" as a hinge.
You will see the mass ring right there. A little MEK applied with a small artists paint brush ( sparingly ) will soften the glue holding the MR in place. Its a good idea to apply some painters blue tape around the inside of the coil former where it meets the pole piece. Once you get that released blow out any debris , you shouldnt really have any and sit the dust cap back down where it used to be. A couple of little dabs of CA to hold it in place and then you can repair the glue line with Black Moyen glue.
Job done , if you are careful you will see no evidence of your theft.

When you get that bad boy out and have it in your hand ask yourself the question , how on earth can that dead weight play at the handover frequency to the 800Hz horn.. It can't.

Don't be afraid of the cone BTW they are much sturdier than you imagine. They have to be pumping back and forth as they do.

87960

[quindecima]

Thanks for the detailed post! That should be a no-brainer.

[macaroonie]

QUOTE=quindecima;433671]Thanks for the detailed post! That should be a no-brainer.[/QUOTE]

No probs , just try and be smooth with the xacto about 1/16" below the top line of the black goo. You can feel where the cut is , it's only stiff paper pulp after all.

[Riley Casey]

Just be extremely obsessive about protecting the voice coil gap from bits of paper or glue getting in there. Use low tack masking tape like the blue tape sold for paint masking. Cutting the dust cap often causes bits of paper to fall in before you can tape it off so I usually use a vacuum to pull out whatever small and light has fallen into the gap but again another very delicate operation. I don't try to salvage dust caps if I cut them off, just replace it with a generic 4" cap. Nothing terribly propriety about 4" discs of cardboard.


Thanks for the detailed post! That should be a no-brainer.

[Ian Mackenzie]

Great post.

Ian

[macaroonie]

Here's mah cuzzin Wayne settin about a speaker for his truck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A8M8HdngS0

He's a bit rowdy cutting the dust cap off but you will get the idea.

[Riley Casey]

Speed reconing. Makes me glad I spent the days with the Mexican ladies on the recone line in Northridge. Nice that he cautioned about the Tee-nuts but he could have mentioned the trick to resetting them after they fall out. :D



Here's mah cuzzin Wayne settin about a speaker for his truck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7A8M8HdngS0

He's a bit rowdy cutting the dust cap off but you will get the idea.

[Ian Mackenzie]

That pretty much makes you a national treasure.