Veneer tips and tricks for 2216 boxes

[Jakob]

I have built a couple of 4350 sized boxes for 2x2216 that I was thinking of veneering. They are made of 15mm birch plywood with an outer shell of 22mm MDF. I have never veneered anything so far :blink:


I've read as much as I've been able to find online and watched videos on Youtube that describe how to do but have some questions left that I hope someone here can help me with.
I'm going to use paperback veneer and Titebond II glue and attach the veneer with an iron. The front, back and bottom will be painted so it is the sides and top that will be veneered. On the front I will use edge banding on the edges.


My first question is in what order to do this? First edgebanding, then veneer the sides and last veneer the top? I've seen different opinions on this on the net.
Should I put glue on the veneer or only on the box? Some people warn that the glue warps the veneer making it a harder job to get everything even etc. Others seem to think that glue along the edges of the veneer is the right way to go and some just glue the complete surface and seem to be able to to handle the occasional warped veneer ...


What usually goes wrong when veneering with this method? What should I look out for?


Thankful for any feedback regarding this!


Best regards and stay healthy!

[Mr. Widget]

I have yet to try the wood glue and iron method, but it seems straight forward and many people have had excellent results. I'll let others with experience pop in with details. I usually do the sides first and top last.

I always follow up with edge banding after I veneer the main panels.


Widget

[Jakob]

Great, thank you for your input Widget! I'm quite anxious since its my first time but I hope everything will turn out OK.
BR Jakob

[JeffW]

I have used the wood glue and iron method, I used Titebond II and it was a little too thick I think - I would thin it very slightly next time. Getting the glue spread smooth makes a big difference, you can see any lines or ripples and have to really iron down those spots to get it smooth. I don't remember anybody else mentioning this, so it might have just been my glue and/or technique. But the end result was great and not hard at all, I'd use it again without hesitation.

[Mr. Widget]

I have used the wood glue and iron method, I used Titebond II and it was a little too thick I think - I would thin it very slightly next time. Getting the glue spread smooth makes a big difference, you can see any lines or ripples and have to really iron down those spots to get it smooth. I don't remember anybody else mentioning this, so it might have just been my glue and/or technique. But the end result was great and not hard at all, I'd use it again without hesitation.Very good data point... as I said, I have not yet tried this technique, but I think I would try regular Titebond or maybe even white glue. I often use standard Elmer's white PVA glue in my veneer press and have never had a problem.

Jakob, you should try a few tests with scraps to get the temp right and you might want to try different glues as well.


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[Don C]

I've found that it's important when trimming the edge of the veneer, you need to study the grain, and make sure that you move the trimmer so that grain direction is heading away from the edge as you move the trimmer. If you move the trimmer along the opposite direction, you'll be repairing chips along the edge.

[tjm001]

I have built a couple of 4350 sized boxes for 2x2216 that I was thinking of veneering. They are made of 15mm birch plywood with an outer shell of 22mm MDF. I have never veneered anything so far :blink:


I've read as much as I've been able to find online and watched videos on Youtube that describe how to do but have some questions left that I hope someone here can help me with.
I'm going to use paperback veneer and Titebond II glue and attach the veneer with an iron. The front, back and bottom will be painted so it is the sides and top that will be veneered. On the front I will use edge banding on the edges.


My first question is in what order to do this? First edgebanding, then veneer the sides and last veneer the top? I've seen different opinions on this on the net.
Should I put glue on the veneer or only on the box? Some people warn that the glue warps the veneer making it a harder job to get everything even etc. Others seem to think that glue along the edges of the veneer is the right way to go and some just glue the complete surface and seem to be able to to handle the occasional warped veneer ...


What usually goes wrong when veneering with this method? What should I look out for?


Thankful for any feedback regarding this!


Best regards and stay healthy!

The most informed source I have ever found is Oakwood Veneer Company in Troy, Michigan. They have a wealth of information online and in videos. Extremely knowledgeable and helpful people. https://www.oakwoodveneer.com/

[Mr. Widget]

I will second the Oakwood endorsement. I have used quite a few veneer vendors over the years and I have come to rely on Oakwood as my primary source.


Widget

[macaroonie]

Original Titebond works a charm. First and foremost do some tests. Get you temperature right and don't linger. If you hang about too much you will heat up the main structure that will then release the melted glue.
When you use the Titebond use a mini roller and put on 2 thin coats on each surface and allow to go clear and dry to the touch. Make sure to roll out any ripples nice and even all over.

Once you get it working on scrap the rest is easy

PS if you get a bubble you have probably overheated. Don't re apply the iron , have a push down implement. A bit of birch plywood about 60 mm wide 300 long with a 60 mm edge rounded over a little and sanded smooth. You will find that if you get on it while it is still hot , as it cools it will stick down.
Pushing along the grain.

M

[JeffW]

Say with walnut, do you guys use the flat cut or quartered? I look at the Oakwood site and try to picture how either would look on a speaker and my mind isn't artistic enough to choose. And 10 mil or the 22 mil stuff? I used 1/64" 3 ply birch ply (15 mil or so I think) with no backing because I was covering the unfinished sides of some baltic birch boxes and a) it matched and b) I already had some.

[Jakob]

Thank you all for great input! Hopefully I'll have some time next weekend to begin some testing!

[macaroonie]

Braw Jacob. Show us your tests and 5ell us about any problems.
Good luck and have fun , when you get your method it is a very rewarding process.

M
.

[Mr. Widget]

Say with walnut, do you guys use the flat cut or quartered? I look at the Oakwood site and try to picture how either would look on a speaker and my mind isn't artistic enough to choose. And 10 mil or the 22 mil stuff? I used 1/64" 3 ply birch ply (15 mil or so I think) with no backing because I was covering the unfinished sides of some baltic birch boxes and a) it matched and b) I already had some.JBL used flat cut. (plain sliced) Most walnut furniture and loudspeakers are also flat cut. On my Project Widgets, I used quarter sawn walnut as it gives a bit more of an exotic look.

I have used both the 10mil and 20 mil. I use 10 mil for most applications, the 20 mil is very thick and almost works like you are working with plastic laminate. (Formica)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?41842-Project-Widget&p=424651&viewfull=1#post424651

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?41842-Project-Widget&p=424652&viewfull=1#post424652


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[JeffW]

JBL used flat cut. (plain sliced) Most walnut furniture and loudspeakers are also flat cut. On my Project Widgets, I used quarter sawn walnut as it gives a bit more of an exotic look.

I have used both the 10mil and 20 mil. I use 10 mil for most applications, the 20 mil is very thick and almost works like you are working with plastic laminate. (Formica)

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?41842-Project-Widget&p=424651&viewfull=1#post424651

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?41842-Project-Widget&p=424652&viewfull=1#post424652


Widget

Thanks, just the info I was looking for!

[Cyclotronguy]

I've had good luck with Titebond II thined and applied with a Binks touch-up gun, but only on smaller projects and then ironed down.

The only really substantial project was VOTT sized speaker cabinets boxes, and for those I used a water based contact cement, that smelled of ammonia as it cured. I was applying paper backed veneer's with a high pressure roller After a cure, sanding sealer and a couple coats of poly. Then edges were routed and species woods glued in. and more coats of wiping poly. About 4 years in the bond started failing on the veneer. There was no fix that ever found.

Kent

[pos]

I hope Jakob will not mind if I revive and hijack this thread with my own question :)

I have a set of MDF enclosures that I coated with a water-based filler with the project of painting them.
I changed my mind along the way and am now planning on veneering them, but I have been told wood glue would not work now that the wood is filled :(

Any opinion or advice on the matter would be greatly appreciated!

[Mr. Widget]

That's a tough one. The obvious answer is to use contact adhesive. Having used many different types of contact adhesives over the decades, I would suggest you not go that route.

Can you use an aggressive sanding disc on a random orbital sander to try to remove most of the sealer? I bet you could use the wood glue/iron technique if you got 50% or more of the sealer off the wood.


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[pos]

Yes I guess I could try sanding parts of it, thanks for the advice!
I cannot remember how many coats I did and I am afraid the MDF might be saturated way deep, but it is worth a try!

I heard veneer could come off after 8 or 10 years with contact adhesive, so I would like to avoid it if possible. Is that what you are referring to when suggesting to avoid these?
Then again wood glue on a partially non porous surface might be even worse in this regard :dont-know:

I will sand it and see if I can get something porous-ish enough to work with!
Thanks Widget!

[Mr. Widget]

Yes, I have tried commercial grade catalyzed contact cement, water based contact cement, and old school highly flammable solvent based contact cement. They all “worked”… but none worked perfectly over time.


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