ME 150HS Aquaplased surrounds 20 yrs old now.

[Bernard Wolf]

Hello everyone.

After reading a few posts about surrounds, foam vs cloth vs rubber and their life expectancy, I thought I would add a comment. I have had my JBL S/3100 for over 20 yrs now and the aquaplased foam surrounds still look and sound like new. I am not surprised by this as it is what I would have expected but I often do hear about surrounds drying up and splitting. I wonder if the coating has anything to do with this or is it that I do not listen at high levels? In any case, I am 86514very happy about it and hope they will last as long as I do (I'm 71 now).

Still loving the 3100!

[AlanD]

Hello everyone.

After reading a few posts about surrounds, foam vs cloth vs rubber and their life expectancy, I thought I would add a comment. I have had my JBL S/3100 for over 20 yrs now and the aquaplased foam surrounds still look and sound like new. I am not surprised by this as it is what I would have expected but I often do hear about surrounds drying up and splitting. I wonder if the coating has anything to do with this or is it that I do not listen at high levels? In any case, I am 86514very happy about it and hope they will last as long as I do (I'm 71 now).

Still loving the 3100!

I have heard that moisture is a big contributor to the foam wearing out. I have the S/2600 which was shipped from Japan. That needed a refoaming before it arrived to me. They claimed it was needed every 10 years or so in the Japanese market due to the humidity and proximity to the ocean.

[Bernard Wolf]

I have heard that moisture is a big contributor to the foam wearing out. I have the S/2600 which was shipped from Japan. That needed a refoaming before it arrived to me. They claimed it was needed every 10 years or so in the Japanese market due to the humidity and proximity to the ocean.


Well, mine have been in the basement all of this time. I do dehumidify in the summer and then it is between 40-50%. In the winter under 30%.

[RMC]

Hi Bernard,

I don't intend to rain on your optimism, but I wonder if the foams on your drivers are in fact in such great shape. They may LOOK like new but in my view its unlikely they would have survived intact after so many years. The fact you don't listen at high level may be part of the explanation for still looking great. Had they been driven to higher level in recent years with good bass content the foams may have shown signs of damage.

I have woofers with foam, cloth and rubber surrounds, plus one "Hybrid" pair. Two pairs have foam surrounds, one of them being the 2214H. Their foams looked great, but the moment I pushed slightly on the foam with a finger there was a dent or hole in surround and foam was falling apart, that's how you learn about their real condition. Same thing happened with the other pair but smaller foam surround woofers.

A good condition foam will easily pass the slight pressure on foam with finger test at a few places around the surround, and a bad one will show damage since overaged foam loses its compliance & holding together. I guarantee mine looked nice just before the "finger test", but the foam rot cancer was in them anyway.

I'm with AlanD on this. 10-year plus foams need to be checked periodically with finger. Foam wise you can't rely on appearance only to judge them. Btw my speakers are used in almost identical conditions as yours, and don't blast myself either, but foam damage was still there even though the eyes couldn't see it without touching.

The "Hybrid" small woofer pair is the only such one I have yet seen, not foam or rubber but rather a mix of the two: rubberized foam! May look like rubber surround on pic but to the touch they're not (texture is different), I know from having many pairs of rubber surround woofers. Really feels like "rubfoam". They've been quite reliable, have them for decades, checked them recently and still ok.

For some years now when purchasing woofers I try to avoid those with foam surround and go instead for cloth or rubber since foam ones don't last long enough for me, plus its a hassle to refoam them properly.

NOTE: If you're satisfied sound wise with what you presently have, maybe its not a good idea for you to finger test your woofer foams in case it makes a dent/hole in them and then you're on the hook for driver refoam jobs... Regards,

Richard

86590

[1audiohack]

Hello All;

Out here in North West Las Vegas where it’s very dry and the air pollution is fairly low the surrounds on my 4435’s lasted 30 years before developing some cracks.

The deterioration from OK but softening to cracked as judged by the “finger poken” test was about one year. Be careful with old ones.

Having re-coned plenty of otherwise broken drivers I have been able to see just how tough “good” surrounds are. You have to try very very hard to push a finger through them. Surprisingly tough.

Barry.

[tom1040]

I also have S/3100's in my office. This pair was in used condition when I purchased and one of the woofers needs a re-foam. I also have a JBL 940t from the 80's that have never been re-foamed and the woofers still look good.

[jblnut]

Our 940's will outlive us, and the cockroaches too :-)

jblnut

[tom1040]

Our 940's will outlive us, and the cockroaches too :-)

jblnut


Ha! I think you are correct, jblnut.

[Bernard Wolf]

I just tried the "finger" test although quite gingerly. I pressed in about 1/8th of an inch with no problem. I will not gamble going further. As the quality of the bass response never ceases to please me, I must assume the surrounds are still doing their job.

Count me lucky or what but I will wait till they visually crack before doing that again! After all these years, in my big room with 180 watts of Mosfet power they are still wonderful!

[RMC]

Hi Bernard,

RE I will not gamble going further.

I agree with you not trying to push further on a 20 year foam surround. If it had been in poor condition it might well have cracked already with the 1/8" push. So as they say if it ain't broken don't fix it...

On the other hand I note that foam surround duration is somewhat all over the map. As i recall, recently Toddalin mentioned 9 years, AllanD talked about 10 years, i got maybe 15 years on the 2214H foams and same for another small woofer pair, yours are at 20 years now, Barry mentioned getting 30 years in his very dry and low pollution environment, and jblnut/Tom have foams that will outlive them...

Then its difficult to put a ballpark number of years on foam life. Most probably local atmospheric conditions and foam material used by the manufacturer must be relevant to their duration. Still worth checking their condition once in a while. Regards,

Richard

[macaroonie]

2235h foams from our house suppler just tipped 20 with no visible degradation..

[Bernard Wolf]

Hi Bernard,

RE I will not gamble going further.

I agree with you not trying to push further on a 20 year foam surround. If it had been in poor condition it might well have cracked already with the 1/8" push. So as they say if it ain't broken don't fix it...

On the other hand I note that foam surround duration is somewhat all over the map. As i recall, recently Toddalin mentioned 9 years, AllanD talked about 10 years, i got maybe 15 years on the 2214H foams and same for another small woofer pair, yours are at 20 years now, Barry mentioned getting 30 years in his very dry and low pollution environment, and jblnut/Tom have foams that will outlive them...

Then its difficult to put a ballpark number of years on foam life. Most probably local atmospheric conditions and foam material used by the manufacturer must be relevant to their duration. Still worth checking their condition once in a while. Regards,

Richard

I wonder if the Aquaplas has anything to do with it. The foam looks to be a bit thicker than what I have usually seen.

[DerekTheGreat]

Good to know! Late last year I had a set of 128H's reconed by edgewound. Fantastic job, but was wondering what to expect from the foam. I'd say extremely low humidity wouldn't be good for the foam either though. I'm heavy into cars, and while all you western dry guys can boast about a solid, rust free car, your interiors and paint are shite! I'd wager between 35-50% humidity is the ticket.

[Bernard Wolf]

I have a chance to purchase an "as new" pair of these drivers. I am wondering if, assuming they have never been used - do the surrounds rot by age or use?? I know that there may be a lot of variables such s storage and humidity. The present owner of the ME's got them from someone who says that they were never used. I am left wondering weather they are worth the gamble - at $750.00USD, for the pair, or rather wait till mine go and re-foam them? I have the refoam kit at hand. Thanks for your thoughts.

Bernard

[JeffW]

You'd also be getting new voice coils, cones, baskets, magnets, and hopefully still serviceable spiders. I imagine those cone kits are scarce and I bet they wouldn't be much cheaper than the cost ea of new drivers if you could find them.

[Bernard Wolf]

After a bit more questioning the owner said they were used many years ago. Then they were sent to JBL when the service was still available for a complete re-cone. And since then never used. So, this does not sound so interesting after all. I guess I will just wait it out. Even if offered a proven new pair it still begs the question as to is it time or use that kills the surrounds. At this point I guess I will wait and address the problem if/when it occurs. So far so good. Not too worried about those magnets though, I'll tell you that!

Thanks

[HCSGuy]

After a bit more questioning the owner said they were used many years ago. Then they were sent to JBL when the service was still available for a complete re-cone. And since then never used. So, this does not sound so interesting after all. I guess I will just wait it out. Even if offered a proven new pair it still begs the question as to is it time or use that kills the surrounds. At this point I guess I will wait and address the problem if/when it occurs. So far so good. Not too worried about those magnets though, I'll tell you that!

Thanks

It is time, not use that kills the surrounds. I’ll bet you could take a new speaker and play it for 5yrs straight and the surround would still be fine, though the spider would be worn. Take the same speaker, leave it in your room, unplayed, for 20 years, and the foam will quickly become one with your carpet at the first sign of bass. I have a pair of 25yr old monitors that are still sealed in their boxes. I’ll bet if we opened them now, the foam would look intact but would very quickly fail. Yes, there is some overlap in the middle due to conditions - dry vs, wet, etc, but I don’t think use has much to do with it, except maybe at the last 10%, when touching the foam may fool you into thinking it is still intact, but using it will cause it to shed.

I have a few pair of ME-150H’s, some have failed foam, and some have not (yet), but other than originality, I don’t know what the big deal about the aquaplas on the surrounds is. If it was magic, why didn’t they put it on any other speaker? I suspect they only used it on speakers destined for the Japanese market, because that market takes being detail oriented and turns it into superstition. If you think you need a spare pair of woofers, factory reconed is about as good as you’re going to get, but there’s nothing but foam that’s going to fail on those woofers unless you abuse them. Btw, what condition is the foam in the back cups of your 2425’s? Might be good to check.

[timca]

As the "Seller" on the topic, may I hijack the thread by asking "ME150H cabinet plan"?

I have a pair of Altec model 19's which I really like. So I am thinking to do a configuration like:

Altec 511B/802-8G
JBL 2405
ME150H

Something like this but replace 2235H with ME150H

88109

https://www.reddit.com/r/diyaudio/comments/1izc85/horn_speakers_in_sapele_pommele_jbl_2235h_altec/

Any help will be appreciated
Tim

[Bernard Wolf]

HCSGuy: Well, I'm not ready to take my speakers apart to check that out; quite the job! The treble sounds just fine to ME, so I will leave good enough alone :eek:.

Thanks

[Bernard Wolf]

As the "Seller" on the topic, may I hijack the thread by asking "ME150H cabinet plan"?

I have a pair of Altec model 19's which I really like. So I am thinking to do a configuration like:

Altec 511B/802-8G
JBL 2405
ME150H

Something like this but replace 2235H with ME150H

88109

https://www.reddit.com/r/diyaudio/comments/1izc85/horn_speakers_in_sapele_pommele_jbl_2235h_altec/

Any help will be appreciated
Tim

Wow!! Those look fabulous! And you made them yourself.. amazing. I think that there is a thread here on the 3100 built by Mathias. Somewhere there the dimensions had been calculated. Good Luck!