Sad to say but this group forum is dead [Archive]

Mr. Widget

01-08-2020, 12:54 PM

The activity here is lifeless. A real pity. Facebook is alot more active. All the experts have disappeared or don't care anymoreI wouldn't say lifeless, but it has certainly slowed down quite a bit over the decades.

I think there are quite a few contributing factors here.

1. Several of our most prolific members have sadly passed away.

2. Member 4313B, aka Giskard, Lancer etc. has left the building for personal reasons. Along with a volatile and sometimes eccentric posting style he was able to bring us a lot of insider and technical info from the braintrust at JBL. It is too bad we have lost that connection, but then that braintrust has been significantly damaged by upper management at Harman anyway.

3. JBL has become very bad about supporting their legacy products. The products that brought so many of us here in the first place.

4. Many of us have said what we had to say and it is out there for others to read. Some posts may be very useful to some and other posts... not so much.

Related to the above observations, Don McRitchie who founded this site and forum has a JBL system he is quite happy with and his interests have moved on to other areas like photography. I for one have a system that satisfies me and I may or may not ever tackle another DIY speaker system. On the new commercially produced products that JBL/Harman is producing, there is little to interest me personally so there you are. Beyond that, there are a number of other good sites that are better for general audio discussions.

Widget

Ian Mackenzie

01-08-2020, 06:25 PM

Widget makes some good points.

There was a period of discovery and excitement and that applies to lots of interest areas not just vintage loudspeakers.

However there are still people out there searching for information and there are a number of alternative forums to LHS none of which l bother to visit. There are thousands of very useful threads and l would encourage any lurkers to search and or post on that they are specifically looking for?

Building big loudspeaker is certainly on trend.

There is a trend towards YouTube following and Facebook groups for those who want to interact directly in real time with others. Some of these groups are by subscription or invitation. Unfortunately forums are seen now was a place for combative opinions with often little fact or focus on resolving the OPs question(s). The LHS owner did not evolve the site into a place for commercial advertising like Diyaudio.com which is now buzzing with interest.

Over an earlier period there was much publicity of catch ups from visiting forum members. I am currently visiting SF at this point in time but unfortunately l have a hectic agenda (with my wife) and could not slot in any time for a group catch up). I have a busy few days in Southern California visiting Palm Springs but l do have this Saturday night free in Santa Monica if anyone wants to catch up and reflect on old times? If no one can do it l totally get it as we all have busy lives.

Ian

Wardsweb

01-09-2020, 07:49 AM

I wouldn't say dead, but it is very different from when I joined in 2003. Like others have stated, there is a wealth of information here. Sadly many have passed on while others, like myself, have reached a plateau of audio contentment. This results in a lot more reading and less posting, less research and more listening.

engineerjoe

01-09-2020, 08:09 AM

At first, not long ago, I was very excited to come across this forum. It has a wealth of info that is timeless.
My history with JBL, Crown, etc., was always on the pro side of things used in bars, theaters, and concert halls.
I had to adjust as many of the members here seem to use the pro stuff in their houses. I didn't realize that at first glance. I stopped posting and started reading to get a clue.

My income doesn't support this side of the heritage that it has in the past.
So now that I've learned what the masses here are all about, I still find many posts interesting. There aren't many each day.
I've been at other hobby forums where the conversations deteriorated so bad, that I left. Some of those forums left too! Seems like they became a public posting of "listen to me" with no content.
So I'm always grateful for any forum that remains a source of great info (content) and less hype.
If you're looking for excitement, I could see where you feel this forum is not "the place". I'd rather have the quiet over the political based ranting forums that have little or no facts, only opinions that aren't even informed ones.
So to the hosts, Thank you for this forum!

BTW having a resource like this may not be exciting to some members. I came from a time and place where the store was the only source. No forums. Info was scarce at best. When you had nothing, something can be exciting!

JeffW

01-09-2020, 09:19 AM

3. JBL has become very bad about supporting their legacy products. The products that brought so many of us here in the first place.

Not long ago I saw Vinny post looking for a source for original 2402 diaphragms. Yep, this place is gonna be dead for that unless somebody happened to have a pair stashed away. Simply Speakers and Speaker Exchange were a pretty good source for a lot of replacement parts, but looking at their listings, every OEM JBL ring radiator diaphragm is out of stock or discontinued. JBL pro might have some, but the common retail sources have dried up.

EngineerJoe:

The old home stuff is fading fast, most of the DIY builds these days are current production drivers or pro gear adapted for home use because that's what can be purchased. And forget about stuff like replacement diaphragms for home tweeters more than a couple of years old, or really any home drivers more than a few years old. All the old legacy gear that brought many of us here is dying off from attrition, finding somebody parting out one of those old systems is the only source of parts. There are some aftermarket parts that pop up now and then, some better than others. The only hope for the legacy systems is a high quality source of aftermarket parts IMHO, JBL has moved on.

engineerjoe

01-09-2020, 09:55 AM

Not long ago I saw Vinny post looking for a source for original 2402 diaphragms. Yep, this place is gonna be dead for that unless somebody happened to have a pair stashed away. Simply Speakers and Speaker Exchange were a pretty good source for a lot of replacement parts, but looking at their listings, every OEM JBL ring radiator diaphragm is out of stock or discontinued. JBL pro might have some, but the common retail sources have dried up.

EngineerJoe:

The old home stuff is fading fast, most of the DIY builds these days are current production drivers or pro gear adapted for home use because that's what can be purchased. And forget about stuff like replacement diaphragms for home tweeters more than a couple of years old, or really any home drivers more than a few years old. All the old legacy gear that brought many of us here is dying off from attrition, finding somebody parting out one of those old systems is the only source of parts. There are some aftermarket parts that pop up now and then, some better than others. The only hope for the legacy systems is a high quality source of aftermarket parts IMHO, JBL has moved on.

Yes, and I agree with most of this. I like the new stuff and think we should at least look at it.
I also think we should look at just how old some of this stuff is now. Having replacement parts drying up, is not the fault of JBL. It has to be a part of overall demand and good business sense. You might think the demand for fresh 2402 diaphragms is high? I would not. I haven't used them in decades. I can't see JBL wasting resources over supplying a few diaphragms for outdated components that doesn't help them. They would go out of business I feel.
I think the heritage stuff is anything over 5 years old. I might be way off on that? In today's market and production overseas, importers are lucky to get reruns of anything. I believe factories make a limited quantity of most anything, and stop. They want to get paid and there's no more molds or dies lying around for years waiting for future use. Technology advances and what's today's production is gone tomorrow.
So it sounds to me that this very forum could just become a place to gripe over what's not available? Do we blame this site?
I don't think it will be long before anyone here will have to go with the modern stuff. Heritage in the near future might become anything that's more than a year old?
Of course, all this is just my opinion. I loved the old JBL components. I had to sell many because of life's circumstances. That forced me to go with more modern stuff as I recovered each time. Each time, I realized that I was better off for it. Lugging around JBL '50 bins wasn't going to cut it for very long. I love the new lightweight driver designs that seem to defy logic. Dual voice coils, high vmax, huge power handling, etc..
If digital isn't your thing (anyone reading this), I understand. I just think we will die off (happy times here) and new users won't know the difference. They will have grown up without analog devices, passive crossovers, vinyl records, tone arms, etc. Ooops. I'm too late!
Wait have you looked at these?
https://www.parts-express.com/selenium-st400-super-tweeter-black--264-450

Robh3606

01-09-2020, 10:46 AM

JeffW

01-09-2020, 08:28 PM

Things have changed so much over the life of this forum. Back when we were most active if you wanted to do a DIY build on almost all of the legacy large format monitors it was no big deal. We had equivalent crossovers posted to replace the tapped inductors and all you needed were driver cores. You were able to build "New" systems by re-coning the cores. It was awesome! I can't think of anyone else who supported legacy systems like JBL once did. Now it is all gone.

I would be hard pressed doing a DIY legacy system today. I still want to do a 4315 which luckily I have drivers for but if I didn't already have them?

Rob:)

That was kind of my point. I think every now and then somebody might pop in wanting to build a 4315, for example. That's a tall order, I bet there's not more than a few people in the world who could pull that off with correct components. A proper rebuild of a 4312 would be a stretch today. Some of the large format systems that shared pro components still seem to be the most DIY-able stuff, even those need a little massaging here and there. Kenrick only has a system or two for sale, they used to have a load off stuff and it sold ASAP for top dollar. So yeah, the world has changed. But it's not this forum's fault, it's the hand that was dealt.

Ian Mackenzie

01-09-2020, 10:30 PM

The 8 inch mid woofer was nla before Jbl stopped many of its recones so l do t think it’s an appropriate example.

As to the 4312 the woofers and the original or after market mid drivers and 035’s are readily available on EBay. Or buy the new L100 Classic.

Don’t forget your fellow forum members who are sitting on a stash of unused drivers.

I have purchased mint 2122 mid cone drivers, 2235s with original recone kits and clean 2405H drivers in recent months from LHS members. My next projects are L300’s and 4344’s.

It’s what you make of it.

Invest new life in your system.

I recently purchased a VPI Prime and Kesiki Purple Heart vinyl set up. My Jbl rig has new life from vinyl.
Also new is my new Nad preamp for Tidal with MQA hi res streaming. I am about to but SH First Watt F7 for a triamp 4345 with my new pure analogue active crossover.

There is always something new to be discovered. But it’s not going to come to you.

If you feel you’ve been there and done it all l would suggest you are more obsessed about visiting this site for a chat than actually being hands on.

You have to have the desire.

JeffW

01-10-2020, 10:51 AM

I have more than enough parts to do any builds that I would want, I was speaking more about the hypothetical newcomer who might stumble in looking for some vintage parts sources. Sure, you can gamble on used eBay and I mentioned the aftermarket stuff - but aftermarket diaphragms for JBL ring radiators, unless they have drastically improved of late, were not really up to snuff. Are the aftermarket dome tweeters? Couldn't say. JBL ain't selling them anymore, and I don't think some folks realize that until years too late for their beloved legacy systems.

Kay Pirinha

01-10-2020, 01:05 PM

I'd always trust the combined intelligence and knowledge here (and in other specific forums) much more than that BS that is being distibuted via Fakebook.

Best regards!

RMC

01-11-2020, 12:56 PM

I think there's another factor not taken into consideration here.

World economy has slowed down a lot, its a fact and pretty evident in many places. For example Canada recently lost something like 72,000 jobs which is a big number for one month in view of its small population of 37 million people. Btw there's more population in California alone (39.56 million) than in all of Canada... Even the German economy has been at a standstill recently! and this is Europe's engine.

On the other hand audio is considered luxury goods, not a necessity for life, and amounts allocated to this are part of discretionary expenses. Discretion is such that when things don't go too well people spend less on audio gear, concentrating on the must have instead of the nice to have. Economic uncertainty has an impact on "euphoria", plus we are getting much closer to the end of one of the longest economic cycle...

This in my view also explains why there are definitely less projects going on or in the making. People are still looking here , but a lot less involved in projects of their own at this time considering the circumstances and outlook.

Richard

Mr. Widget

01-11-2020, 01:25 PM

RMC, I’ll respectfully disagree.

While I don’t disagree that audio is a luxury and that for most of the “Western” world there is a dramatic shrinking of the middle class as the imbalance created by the expanding of the very wealthy class is coming at the expense of everyone else, I doubt that plays a significant role here in this situation.

Heck, I first got into building my own speakers because I couldn’t afford factory made speakers.

Widget

Ian Mackenzie

01-11-2020, 04:06 PM

Richard raises an interesting point.

However looking at what projects have been posted over the past 12 - 18 months the statistics might not support this hypothesis. The media last night in the USA suggests job growth in recent times but in what area l am not sure.

A project can be a simple as diy tweaks and not necessarily a full build which can be expensive l agree.

While Jbl have stopped supply of some parts l don’t believe this is a direct influence in posting traffic except for those who feel they need a vertical quest such as building a M2 or a DD67000 or of such ilk. I think that as a direction can be elitist and polarising leading to a burn out of traffic. Hence l never post about my Tad 4003 drivers worth US$9000.00 still in my wardrobe.

Btw Edgewound has the skills to build up drivers some of which are now unavailable. I would support Edgewound in this endeavour.

I think posting traffic is stimulated by insightful acNd knowledgeable posts that encourage followers to join in a healthy discussion.

Now back to enjoying Palm Springs.

SEAWOLF97

01-11-2020, 06:24 PM

.
ask the members age group in 5 year increments.

I'd guess that a huge percentage of LHF members is over 60 , and that is a diminishing demographic.

the growing ages seem to be in the "under 35" crowd. They generally have different needs, experiences & desires that the "over 60" gaggle.

The 60+'s are settled in their lives, have resources and usually bought the item of their lifetime dreams by now.

Sure, there are the DIY people who come here for building tips, those trying to maintain their current gear, but the current JBL offerings just are not producing the excitement of the vintage products. Doubt that anyone comes to LHF to get an opinion on the latest JBL blutooth plastic thingie.

JBL Consumer seems to be a shell of it's former self, and the forum reflects that.

that said .... "Viva la LHF forum"

Ian Mackenzie

01-11-2020, 08:15 PM

To be honest l don’t think it’s an age issue and l don’t think it’s an issue at all.

If you come here to be entertained by other people’s questions your out of luck.
If you come here for a Yaba festival good for you. I frankly don’t have the time or the desire for that.

One of the issues with this kind of forum “Structure” is nothing remains visible for very long.

If the new lurker does not see any visibility of the relevant topic he or she is looking for they might ask in a single post after a search but that is hard work. Even then the information they are looking for might not be in the thread they have found and the members might not have the right answers or information they require.

It’s easier to Google.

On Age know of two recent diy build / modifications under 35.
There are a number of collectors who naturally will be regular visitors.

So the original post might need re thinking.

With under 100 posts from the OP l don’t find the statement reliable.

It reminds me of Rolf (RIP) complaining when no one responded to his post’s within 24 hours....Lol.

Polls only bring out the wingers who contribute nothing but want everything.

RMC

01-12-2020, 01:13 AM

Hi Widget,

Please note my point hasn't been about the middle class VS the riches, never mentioned that. More about the global economy slowing down a lot in the last 12 months or so and its effect on discretionary expenses.

As for the USA, well its been sort of the exception up to now, it has slowed globally but less so than many others, that's why the US Fed reserve has reduced interest rates not long ago. I follow business/economic news (plus world news) everyday on Bloomberg and a number of other news only channels, while reading the newspaper. Wife sure won't sit on sofa next to me then, but big Jules the cat won't mind a cuddle LOL

Other large trading partners are pretty down: Europe and Germany in particular, China down too, Japan also, Britain (though some Brexit impact too), Canada, etc. There's a whole bunch of them not doing that well these days and that often impacts their population. But generally members don't come here saying I'm just looking because cash is tight or I'm being prudent money wise right now because... Doesn't look good.

I certainly didn't deny the fact JBL doesn't make it easy, as others have said, for builders to recone, use or make legacy reproductions, i.e. making the legacy prosper and live longer. My post mentioned "also explains" which doesn't reject other explanations, but simply adds another possible one regarding lower number of audio projects. Regards,

Richard

BMWCCA

01-12-2020, 07:58 AM

I would posit that the economy was far worse when this site was active than it is now. I don't see any direct connection between activity here and world economic indicators.

We're a special-interest group, and a rather small one at that. Any fluctuation in activity by individual members will have a disproportionate affect on the site as a whole. When I joined this group 14-years ago I was amazed at the knowledge trust available to me and I was already by that time a JBL owner for 40-years and had never been here before. People will cycle in and cycle out. The most prolific of our resident experts (not me, for sure) create a disproportionate void when they—for whatever reason—become inactive.

It is my hope that this site remains vibrant and that valued members continue to contribute freely, but I have no delusion that age doesn't contribute to attrition here. Age also contributes to shorter attention spans with the youngest perhaps more comfortable with the slam-bam tempo of Facebook than us older folk who still actually read books and magazines, and buy CDs for the liner notes.

My other passion is my German car brand. Our Club just celebrated the 50th anniversary of our annual get-together. We didn't start as a vintage club and often we struggle with being relevant for the now-vintage-vehicle owners over the constant influx of new purchasers. To some extent there has been a renewed interest in cars that cost $3000 new when I started that are currently selling at auction for 20-times that. Collectors versus enthusiasts have different needs and wants. That 50th anniversary was met with the powers-that-be deciding the 50th should be the last, for whatever reason. Next year's venue for a yet-to-be-named event is a California resort area where the proletariat will struggle to justify the expense of attending.

The good news is that this change in my car club comes as our vintage owners increase participation at their smaller annual events to the point that the host hotel is booked a year in advance appealing to an age demographic that continues to expand. Good and bad. As long as interest to support our hobbies continue, I'll participate as I can, help those I can, and learn as much as I can from those who have and share their expertise.

Long Live Lansing Heritage. And thanks, again, to those who make this group what it is. :applaud:

SEAWOLF97

01-12-2020, 10:14 AM

To be honest l don’t think it’s an age issue and l don’t think it’s an issue at all.

Polls only bring out the wingers who contribute nothing but want everything.

sorry, I don't agree with what I think you are trying to say

It’s easier to Google.

sure, and then goofle takes you right back here.

it is better than LHF's native search engine tho.

Ian Mackenzie

01-12-2020, 10:37 AM

But Google lists the discussions

Mr. Widget

01-12-2020, 10:45 AM

hjames

01-12-2020, 05:51 PM

Hum...:blink: it's a fact Facebook is in fashion.
If I want to find information it is on forum type sites that I find the best information.
Anyway the fashions pass and so do we.

No, Twitter is in fashion, Facebook is a has been - social media desparately
trying to drum up readers to feed to their advertisers ... old hat.
You'll be lucky if Facebook is anything resembling relevant once the next election cycle is over.

Web forums are old tech, but have great validity since they're not scrolling a new page every day or two.
Do a search and that information remains available, even years later.
Long term projects and older designs are just as valid now as when they were built -
and folks with hybrid designs bring new excitement to audio system.

Dis it if you like - but there is still lots of good stuff here!

Ian Mackenzie

01-12-2020, 07:44 PM

The activity here is lifeless. A real pity. Facebook is alot more active. All the experts have disappeared or don't care anymore

Quote by OP 17/07/2017”Has Tad overtaken JBL in build quality and sonic superiority years ago?
This is what i have been hearing among the JBL community. Even everest paragon L300 hartsfield cant compare to the Tad superior sound. Agree Disagree? Have you heard both sides to confirm or rebut? Im very diisappointed if this was the case. And its sad that top jbl engineers allegedly were allowed to defect to Tad for more money. Am very upset by this news.”

Looking at both posts one could argue the OP has made a determined effort to provoke conflicting responses with spurious unsubstantiated emotion.

The questions in both cases being bogus cap. Sheer ignorance of wider activity on the forums or just out to get a rise? Scanning his prior 80 odd posts over 8 years statistically the OP has rarely asked a specific technical question but were answered correctly. Mostly on Altec components. Most posts being more general comments seldom leading a fact based discussion.

tomt

01-13-2020, 02:53 AM

Mass access to the internet,

Is right at 20 years old.

It is not a new and different thing anymore.

I suspect that the world changing,

has more to do with what is going on.

I've noticed Twitter, has changed as well.

Due to demographics,

However,

It look like Spongebob

will retain ownership of Twitter,

For quite some time.

In spite of the current president's enthusiastic

Use of Twitter.

Should one be able to catch the meaning .

--------------------------------

The OP is quite right,

In pointing out this situation,

The point being that things are changing .

We could change with it.

But no one has to.

------------------------------------

Since the internet became readily available,

At librarys,

I've greatly expanded my music listening taste.

Also,

I just ask teenagers what they are listening to.

When they get over the shock,

Of someone their grandparents age,

Asking for music recommendations,

(The looks on their faces, are priceless)

Often they will point to something interesting .

----------------

Soundcloud can play in the background,

And has much content.

New and old.

Ian Mackenzie

01-13-2020, 09:07 PM

sorry, I don't agree with what I think you are trying to say

Quote “Originally Posted by Ian Mackenzie View Post
To be honest l don’t think it’s an age issue and l don’t think it’s an issue at all.“

Polls only bring out the wingers who contribute nothing but want everything.

“sorry, I don't agree with what I think you are trying to say
It’s easier to Google. sure, and then goofle takes you right back here.
it is better than LHF's native search engine tho.

Quote”The activity here is lifeless. A real pity. Facebook is alot more active. All the experts have disappeared or don't care anymore”.

One more time.

I am not aware of a significant jbl legacy following on Facebook?
All the experts have disappeared or don’t care anymore? Really. I have expertise in some areas but l don’t recall disappearing or losing interest.
How often had the thread owner asked a question or sort technical advice? Not often would be a nice way of putting it.
There are a number of threads currently running by members who are knowledgeable. It’s very easy to be judgmental without any supporting fact.

On “Age” or should l say middle age my impression is you are content with your own thread (blog) but perhaps less interested in other aspects of the forms. I have no issue with that but it points to casting a wider awareness than just what first comes to mind when engaging in a reactive discussion like this one.

Are you sure your not self referential to your own concerns about age?

Logically as the forum population ages membership dynamics will change but that was not the point made by the thread owner. That is your own point that you have decided is what this thread is about. Before long everyone has a say and it’s nothing more than hot air.

It could be reasoned that with age comes knowledge and wisdom. Surely with that comes the desire to be helpful with regular posts and interest in supporting ongoing growth of the forum membership. I belong to clubs and other forums. Human behaviour being what it is the general populace can become stagnant if they become too reliant on the words of the wise few too keep them engaged. They basically want to be spoon fed while a few hard working hero’s do all the work. In other words they become lethargic. They basically stop thinking for themselves but will argue the point like grumpy old men when provoked. I liken them to old buggers. They complain and the likeminded join in.

grumpy

01-14-2020, 11:13 AM

Hey!... :D

poopers gonna poop.

engineerjoe

01-14-2020, 07:04 PM

Do you mean you have other things to do in this world besides entertaining me? WHAAAAAAAAAA?
I hope you have a great vacation and above all be safe. It will take some time for me to figure out who's who in the forum. I'm just that slow now days.
I already have people that I look forward to reading their posts. Again, I appreciate the info.
Now this whole post, has some different entertainment value. It might just be turning out OK after all?

Robh3606

01-15-2020, 07:31 AM

Raspberries !!!

Rob:)

jmpsmash

01-15-2020, 12:59 PM

I am a new member so may be a different perspective.

JBL as a brand hasn't been that hot recently. Most ppl who has money are attracted by the fancier brands, Focal, B&W, etc, which has much better design and mass market oriented models. TOTL JBLs are great quality but they have lots of fancier looking competition, look at B&W models vs K2s. Hate to say that, but look matter. Those who do not, JBL don't exactly have anything to cater to them either.

JBL also isn't very popular, there is a certain stigma associated with it, old fashion, pro audio. Hardly good enough to garner enough interests. That's not to say JBL stuff are not good, in fact, they are, but quality isn't the only thing.

The only JBL ppl see are those bluetooth and that horrible light up speakers in Bestbuy, that's not helping either!

As for DIY, JBL isn't like Scan, Fostex, etc, who has a nice range of drivers available to the public. JBL drivers that are available, as far as I can tell, are supposed to be replacement and not designed to be sold to DIYers. Some don't even have specs! The remaining are used ones, and the ones available are quite beaten up already.

If JBL starts selling their drivers in parts express, madisound, then we will definitely see more activity from the DIY crowd. somehow I don't see that happening.

As for myself, I must be the odd one out. Only recently started DIY speakers and got hooked with the JBL sound. I think this forum is absolutely awesome, so much knowledge, either from googling old threads, or from super knowledgeable and helpful members.

BMWCCA

01-15-2020, 07:03 PM

Most ppl who has money are attracted by the fancier brands, Focal, B&W, etc, which has much better design and mass market oriented models. TOTL JBLs are great quality but they have lots of fancier looking competition, look at B&W models vs K2s. Hate to say that, but look matter. Those who do not, JBL don't exactly have anything to cater to them either.

Personally, I think B&Ws are an ugly mess of organic shapes and overwrought Gee-Gaws. When diamond-encrusted dust domes have anything to do with sound quality, then maybe I'll rethink my statement. If this appeals to anyone, I have to question their taste and sense of aesthetics. Every Everest has been a beautiful, functional work of art. Every B&W looks like a creature from the black lagoon.

Goofy enough to appeal to a monied younger class of venture capitalists who have never made anything in their lives, but have the money to buy stuff and don't really have a clue about good design. Or taste, apparently.

I don't think any of that has anything to do with this site's past or future
.

Ian Mackenzie

01-15-2020, 07:47 PM

I think it depends on who you are or where you live. JBL is still strong in the studio, record plants and broadcast industry. In the consumer market they are highly sort after in Japan and HongKong which is where the bulk sales are. I heard 3 pairs of DD67000 in peoples homes in HK. It was all about JBL. B&W are out there but having heard a marketing presentation at hifi show recently I think they are just cycling technology. Just Bling. The designs have not appreciably changed for a long time apart from some driver materials changes. If you are patient you can score drivers for some JBLs iconic systems.

The difference between the Euro diy drivers and JBL is the former are components for home bookshelf systems - HiFi sound. They will get you to 55 mph. They sound like loudspeakers. In other words compressed. The laws of physics control what you hear btw. The latter are for Texas bookshelf systems at studio monitoring levels. Real Sound. Incredible linearity. They will get you to 215mph. Nothing even comes close imho.

jmpsmash

01-15-2020, 09:11 PM

Personally, I think B&Ws are an ugly mess of organic shapes and overwrought Gee-Gaws. When diamond-encrusted dust domes have anything to do with sound quality, then maybe I'll rethink my statement. If this appeals to anyone, I have to question their taste and sense of aesthetics. Every Everest has been a beautiful, functional work of art. Every B&W looks like a creature from the black lagoon.

Goofy enough to appeal to a monied younger class of venture capitalists who have never made anything in their lives, but have the money to buy stuff and don't really have a clue about good design. Or taste, apparently.

I don't think any of that has anything to do with this site's past or future
.

well they sell those things in Best Buy and in quantities and with high margins. So they have to make them bling and update regularly with new models. That's how they are marketed and yes, it says nothing about sound quality. I have heard $2k pair of B&W bookshelves and it was probably $200 of parts if at all, but it looks like $2k :)

But that's the problem. JBL also made it into Best Buy, but the monstrosity they came up is much worse, much much worse.

jmpsmash

01-15-2020, 09:58 PM

I think it depends on who you are or where you live. JBL is still strong in the studio, record plants and broadcast industry. In the consumer market they are highly sort after in Japan and HongKong which is where the bulk sales are. I heard 3 pairs of DD67000 in peoples homes in HK. It was all about JBL. B&W are out there but having heard a marketing presentation at hifi show recently I think they are just cycling technology. Just Bling. The designs have not appreciably changed for a long time apart from some driver materials changes. If you are patient you can score drivers for some JBLs iconic systems.

I am not sure what's the percentage JBL are in HK/Japan compared to other brands. My mom was looking for a new pair of speakers to replace her 20 yrs old custom made ones (which had a pair of LE15A in it). Since she likes the JBL bass I thought something in her price range and room size would be a pair of 4367. We found the distributor but their showroom displays other brands but not JBL! She finally found a pair at another retail location after asking around. Ppl have no problem finding other popular brands but JBL only carried by a handful of shops it seems.

In the end, she got a pair of very nice condition used one as the previous owner's room was too small for them. She end up really liking them.

Which bring to another point, on avg, HK/Japan don't have the room size for large JBL cabinets but yet they are popular there. Go figure.

1audiohack

01-16-2020, 04:23 AM

...Your not the first one to start quoting your half arsed logic without having a fucking clue about anything to do with anything. So don’t let it bother you.

Oh right that’s helpful.

There are many possible reasons this forum is dwindling in activity and this attitude just might be one of them.

Barry.

SEAWOLF97

01-16-2020, 07:31 AM

Your not the first one to start quoting your half arsed logic without having a fucking clue about anything to do with anything. So don’t let it bother you.

Oh right that’s helpful.

There are many possible reasons this forum is dwindling in activity and this attitude just might be one of them.

Barry.

+1

SEAWOLF97

01-16-2020, 08:29 AM

I disagree with the OP about the forum being dead. seems like a troll.

I also disagree with a member who thinks AGE is not a factor in the forums slowdown.

currently running an age poll ==>> http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?42094-What-is-your-current-age&p=427010#post427010

that is showing 68% of respondents are 51 or older. I think that substantiated the points of age that I've already made.

OTOH ... unless the sites owner is pulling the plug because of a slowdown, then I think that the whole point is moot. Traffic cycles all the time.

The new owners of JBL are certainly NOT doing much to promote interest in the brand, so it's boiling down to legacy, pro & altec to generate interest.

As has been already said, many of the questions that need to be known have already been asked and answered.

RMC

01-16-2020, 01:04 PM

Seems the forum has started the new year on the wrong foot. Knives flying pretty low these days. Maybe the New Year day turkeys served had a virus.

Kind of staying more on the service road recently with posts, dealing more with LP records, phono gear, etc info. Certainly less glamour, but more interested in trying to help younger generation dive into audio, as well as those with more limited budget... That also seems like a subject attracting less litigation here.

Being more open to a wider range of equipment might help in renewing the membership with younger or often less fortunate ($) folks, and get them started. Regards,

Richard

Ian Mackenzie

01-16-2020, 08:30 PM

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?8023-Are-You-a-Good-Moderator&highlight=

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?8004-Are-you-a-good-Forum-poster&highlight=

Rubbish in = Rubbish out

I wish Miss Orchid was still around.......LOL

Titanium Dome

01-19-2020, 09:37 PM

I wish Miss Orchid was still around.......LOL

I was trying to remember his other alter-ego a couple of days ago. She was certainly the gentlest of his personas.

Ian Mackenzie

01-19-2020, 09:54 PM

Same here. Lancer was one of them.

The best times were when they were alternating responses in a thread...Lol.

I think Rob has a soft spot for her too.

hjames

01-20-2020, 12:47 PM

Same here. Lancer was one of them.

The best times were when they were alternating responses in a thread...Lol.

I think Rob has a soft spot for her too.

Lancer - wasn't that the G-man of whom you speak?
Someone asked me the other day if he had died.
I didn't think so - but I thought he left after Harman forced Greg Timbers into retirement ...
Something about enjoying time with the grandkiddoes more than the ongoing fights here ...

Ian Mackenzie

01-20-2020, 02:22 PM

Correct.

He has a young family.

Michael Chavez

01-20-2020, 06:20 PM

and definitely the most relevant source for all things JBL I have yet to find

but still things have slowed considerably here, readily witnessed just from a good reading session

in my opinion that is because of the ever dwindling supply of the raw materials requisite to fueling the hobby, all levels of the hobby, from the guy who just needs to know how to freshen up the cabinets to the massive clean sheet of paper custom build, all of which can be found here

and THAT is affordable JBLs sourced from yard sales to pawn sops and all points in between

the good stuff, the stuff that had a replacement cone or diaphram part number associated with it and more time than not a professional counterpart

nowadays not so much anymore, affordable that is, thanks to the easy access to a huge market for on line selling

what made it easy and fun is now making it a bit more difficult for the new to the game folks like me

hobbyists and newcomers

the same thing that made this great resource possible

the greatest double-edged sword of all times - the internet

and then, there's everything else

Ian Mackenzie

01-20-2020, 09:10 PM

Michael

You have a good view and perspective as relatively new member.

In the beginning it was a funnel for gathering information on legacy jbl systems, and components.
There were only a few dozen members.

The interest was on who had what and discoveries of how things worked. Product perspectives were written and the Library was developed and kept developing.

Interest in systems broadened and people like myself started to embrace the more complicated and lesser known systems like the 4343-4344-4345. They gained popularity along with other systems like the L250, the XPL series, the S9500 and others. During this period Jbl still supported recones for numerous drivers.

LHS member Giskard then started providing back door availability of replacement drivers currently in production. So forum members were spoilt. This continued for a time with SOA Jbl drivers in a quest to clone JBLs SOA systems. Not everyone jumped in to go this way but some people made this their de facto standard. The bubble burst when Jbl restructured and divested into car and lifestyle products and they ceased supply of a number of replacement recones, legacy drivers and soa drivers.

This isn’t a detailed account of the past decade.

Giskard then called it a day and around the same time the LHS most loved Jbl legend Greg Timbers was unceremoniously told he no longer had job at Jbl. For some long standing members particularly those who had bought the SOA Jbl drivers it was a turning point. I don’t subscribe to these members moving on as such. There’s just nothing to spark their motivation to publicly post at the moment. But that could change. I also don’t subscribe to the notion that you need new factory stock drivers to be part of the hobby or new soa drivers to be the best of the best. There is a growing movement among Jbl die hard fans to return to the legacy systems now Jbl has pretty much stopped making soa consumer drivers.

Like a car collector or restoration fanatic this hobby requires patience and perseverance. Networking and knowledge also play a big part.

Put it this way l have auditioned a bi amped 4331 with original legacy components along side a DD67000 and the 4331 was surprising good sonically driven by premium audiophile equipment. The legacy systems and drivers are still very much revered. So l don’t see interest in Jbl legacy systems fading with those truly interested in the JBL experience. They will look harder and be more resourceful but the prize is still very much out there. You just need to hang out with the right people and want to be in it.

Michael Chavez

01-21-2020, 11:21 AM

Michael

You have a good view and perspective as relatively new member.

In the beginning it was a funnel for gathering information on legacy jbl systems, and components.
There were only a few dozen members.

The interest was on who had what and discoveries of how things worked. Product perspectives were written and the Library was developed and kept developing.

Interest in systems broadened and people like myself started to embrace the more complicated and lesser known systems like the 4343-4344-4345. They gained popularity along with other systems like the L250, the XPL series, the S9500 and others. During this period Jbl still supported recones for numerous drivers.

LHS member Giskard then started providing back door availability of replacement drivers currently in production. So forum members were spoilt. This continued for a time with SOA Jbl drivers in a quest to clone JBLs SOA systems. Not everyone jumped into go this but some people made this their de facto standard. The bubble burst when Jbl restructured and divested into car and lifestyle products and they ceased supply of a number of replacement recones, legacy drivers and soa drivers.

This isn’t a detailed account of the past decade.

Giskard then called it a day and around the same time the LHS most loved Jbl legend Greg Timbers was unceremoniously told he no longer had job at Jbl. For some long standing members particularly those who had bought the SOA Jbl drivers it was a turning point. I don’t subscribe to these members moving on as such. There’s just nothing to spark their motivation to publicly post at the moment. But that could change. I also don’t subscribe to the notion that you need new factory stock drivers to be part of the hobby or new soa drivers to be the best of the best. There is a growing movement among Jbl die hard fans to return to the legacy systems now Jbl has pretty much stopped making soa consumer drivers.

Like a car collector or restoration fanatic this hobby requires patience and perseverance. Networking and knowledge also play a big part.

Put it this way l have auditioned a bi amped 4331 with original legacy components along side a DD67000 and the 4331 was surprising good sonically driven by premium audiophile equipment. The legacy systems and drivers are still very much revered. So l don’t see interest in Jbl legacy systems fading with those truly interested in the JBL experience. They will look harder and be more resourceful but the prize is still very much out there. You just need to hang out with the right people and want to be in it.
thank you for the wonderful post
best regards
Michael

man00

01-24-2020, 04:39 AM

Forgot what I was gonna say

brutal

01-25-2020, 01:51 PM

well they sell those things in Best Buy and in quantities and with high margins. So they have to make them bling and update regularly with new models. That's how they are marketed and yes, it says nothing about sound quality. I have heard $2k pair of B&W bookshelves and it was probably $200 of parts if at all, but it looks like $2k :)

But that's the problem. JBL also made it into Best Buy, but the monstrosity they came up is much worse, much much worse.

I don't know what they currently offer, but I doubt it's even attractive to those of us accustomed to JBL vintage let alone those that have larger budgets than I for the new high end gear.

Years ago, I bought some JBL Best Buy Speakers. S38II bookshelf. They were really not bad at all. Loud as hell but a little fatiguing. That line had some decent HT speakers in it, as I recall the floorstanding S312 was liked more than the larger S412 by some members here that reviewed them?

I don't know if they were sold in BB, but the floorstanding L series (L7/L5/L3/L1) are well thought of while not being vintage. I have a pair of L7 and L5 here that normally see occasional use. The L5's are currently standing in for my 250Ti's that need a refoam (both LE14H-1 and 044Ti).

spkrman57

01-25-2020, 03:53 PM

srm51555

01-26-2020, 02:15 PM

spkrman57

01-28-2020, 10:00 AM

Ron,

Sorry to hear about your friends, they are blessed to have a friend like you. Also its good to hear from you, I’ve recently read some of your posts in some of the 2242/2245 threads.

thanks,
Scott

I have 4645C with 2242 and a 2042 no cabinet. but with a pair 0f 1501Fe makes them obsolete. my rooms are small and large 18" subs energizes the rooms around me, listening room limited due to LF having long wavelengths.

regards, Ron

Woofer

01-31-2020, 09:59 PM

The activity here is lifeless. A real pity. Facebook is alot more active. All the experts have disappeared or don't care anymore

This place whilst maybe not all that busy, is still the #1 source for ANYTHING JBL or Lansing.
It would take 3 or 4 lifetimes to go through all the wealth of info here. I still come and go here often and just read, and read, and read...
Whatever question you may have, a simple search will probably reveal it has already been asked and dealt with in depth.
There is no other like here or ever will be.
Facebook is entertaining and fine in it's own way, but doesn't even come close.....
Long live this community. ;)
Love to everybody.
In those famous words by Bill & Ted, ".... be excellent to each other."
... and don't forget, the key to long life, is to keep breathing. :p
Amen.

Woofer

01-31-2020, 10:15 PM

2 friends with stage 4 lung cancer, another with double lung transplant. don't leave much time for audio. im just getting back into audio again.

im in my 60's and my friends are dwindling away.

I hope to continue my 1501Fe, 2206 and 2447/2332 horn 3 way project I envisioned years ago b4 life slowed everything down.

regards, Ron

missing my audio...

I was dreadfully ill and diagnosed with stage 4 non small cell lung cancer, and given 2-3 months.
The shock was devastating.
After some (very fast) research, I discovered my hospital was starting trials in IMMUNOTHERAPY the very next week.
I wasn't offered this as my Oncologists [apparently] were unaware of it which I found very hard to believe.
Anyway, I went direct to the people in charge of trials, and BEGGED, and BEGGED, and they relented.
I was the 2nd person to be included.
That was December 2016
By February 2017, the cancer was completely gone.
The pic below is of my tumour. [the white bit off centre to the right.]
I am 67yo, and I totally understand how you feel Ron. I have outlived many of my old friends and it gets pretty lonely sometimes. There's just no one to share a laugh with or just talk to anymore. So life changing....

I sympathise with you and am truly sorry for your friends.
As much as I hate encouraging false hope, please look into Immunotherapy.

Most sincerely to the nth degree,
George.

85780

brutal

02-01-2020, 12:57 AM

This place whilst maybe not all that busy, is still the #1 source for ANYTHING JBL or Lansing.
It would take 3 or 4 lifetimes to go through all the wealth of info here. I still come and go here often and just read, and read, and read...
Whatever question you may have, a simple search will probably reveal it has already been asked and dealt with in depth.
There is no other like here or ever will be.
Facebook is entertaining and fine in it's own way, but doesn't even come close.....
Long live this community. ;)
Love to everybody.
In those famous words by Bill & Ted, ".... be excellent to each other."
... and don't forget, the key to long life, is to keep breathing. :p
Amen.

The "Vintage JBL" Facebook group is kind of a joke. Apparently 90's big box JBL is "vintage" to some.

Woofer

02-01-2020, 01:36 AM

The "Vintage JBL" Facebook group is kind of a joke. Apparently 90's big box JBL is "vintage" to some.

You have to remember that 'most' of 'em are pretty young, so to them 90's IS vintage.... ;)

Mr. Widget

02-01-2020, 10:33 AM

I was dreadfully ill and diagnosed with stage 4 non small cell lung cancer, and given 2-3 months.
The shock was devastating.
After some (very fast) research, I discovered my hospital was starting trials in IMMUNOTHERAPY...Fantastic news! Thanks for sharing your uplifting story and keep us posted on your continued good health!

Widget

Woofer

02-02-2020, 05:44 AM

Fantastic news! Thanks for sharing your uplifting story and keep us posted on your continued good health!

Widget

Thanks heaps Widget..... :bouncy:

SEAWOLF97

02-03-2020, 10:02 AM

Fantastic news! Thanks for sharing your uplifting story and keep us posted on your continued good health!

Widget

I reacted the exact same way ... got distracted before could reply.

AlanD

02-08-2020, 12:35 PM

Xennial here.

I grew up with L112’s as a toddler. Through high school, I had JBL Sub Sat systems. By the time I got to college, I went from computer speakers (Klipsch Promedia) to finally getting the HLS-610. But like many in my generation, as we moved around to various apartments, the opportunity for floor standing speakers was limited. I went to Polk LSi’s for added bass and then finally ended up with Magnepan’s and Devialet Phantoms.

The Arrays were out of my price point and I didn’t have time (or a large enough car) to get my L112’s refoamed. I was happy with Magnepans and dreamt of “one day” getting a Synthesis home theater.

Fast forward to the present day. For as long as I can remember, my Magnepan setup was more enjoyable to anything I experienced at the theater. Then, I saw “A Star is Born” in the theater and the sound was incredible. This was with a JBL ScreenArray setup.

I returned to JBL with a Studio 530, knowing it was the last GT/JM collaboration which quickly led to me adding a Studio 590 and then leading me to today, where I am flying an S/2600 from Japan back to the US.

I give the story as background to emphasize the power of auditioning the Studio 530 in my home.

If you go to forums such as AudioScienceReview or Reddit.com/r/audiophile you can see that there is still a large generation of young audiophiles. As demographics of home ownership have changed, today’s millennials are more into headphones than they are loudspeakers. You just need to look at drop.com and see the number of headphones they are selling. Almost 93000 pairs of the Sennheiser HD6XX were sold!
But many of these owners are just waiting to reach a stage in their life where it will be possible to get into loudspeakers. The market isn’t dead — there is just a gap.

JBL died when they no longer could get into brick and mortar stores and they stopped advertising and getting press in the magazines. All of the attention was on Revel since it was once an unproven brand. It’s impossible to get repair kits and drivers now. If not for the Japanese market, I think JBL would already have gone the route of Infinity.

If I was in charge of Harman Luxury Audio, I would “reboot” the JBL brand and get them back into Best Buy / Magnolia. Samsung already buys floor space at BestBuy so there is already a precedent.

At the expense of Harman, I would convert one of the Best Buy cinema rooms to a Synthesis room. It may even be possible to take over the Car Audio install bays. Best Buy wouldn’t sell Synthesis but would get a commission for sales through the existing Synthesis dealership network. The Synthesis room is to showcase JBL cinema technology which then would drive sales of their Bluetooth consumer gear and the Synthesis line.

In exchange for a cinema demo room, the Magnolia sites would have Studio 530, Studio 590, the L100 and something like a 4367. The Studio 5’s are actually still in production in China. My 590 was manufactured October 2019.

They don’t need a complete line (the way Best Buy doesn’t have a full line of McIntosh, Sonus Faber or Arcam) but it would give customers an opportunity to listen to what dynamic speakers sound like in comparison to the B&W that they have.

The Studio 530 and 590 at Black Friday pricing gives Millenials a starting point in the setup and the L100 and 4367 gives Baby Boomers who haven’t thought about music in a while a nostalgic point of reference as well as a sample of the current state of the art.

Just as audio engineers bringing home their monitors led to the success of the L100, there is a great opportunity to have Synthesis and the Best Buy/Magnolia salespeople choosing JBL for their own home setups.

Ian Mackenzie

02-08-2020, 05:41 PM

Hi Alan,

Great story.

Here in Australia it’s a supply problem. No product for two years.
The advertising for Synthesis is still up but they can’t get it.

My impression from people l have spoken to is the Interest and Demand is turning to the legacy products!here locally, SoCal, HongKong and Europe. The price for a 2235H on EBay is going up. Those here who profess to gravitate to JBL SOA drivers are part of that group but represent a very small slice of a much larger pie of JBL legacy followers and they are prepared to wait a while to acquire the drivers for their project.

If there is slowing of traffic on the LHS it’s not linked to what’s happening on the ground.

Ed Kreamer

02-11-2020, 07:14 PM

Colleagues;

I wish to thank all those who contributed to this thread, the forum is not dead, but like all things it has changed somewhat. How many of us here can remember going to one anothers homes to listen to sound systems at listening partys, drinking cheap wine or western or eastern beer. That's all we had then. "Hey you just gotta hear my University Classics!" or maybe "I just finished my speakers and I'd like you to hear them. And so into the late night we'd listen to the Beatles,Stones, Miles Davis, Dave Brubeck and anon. All on vinyl.

Most Hi-Fi outlets that had JBL or Altec, also had someone who could guide the consumer into building their own custom speaker systems. Here in the Northwest we had Speaker Lab that sold kits of speakers one could build.

Who among us could forget the advanced industrial design of the original L-100, L-212, or the L-300. Gorgeous to behold.....and you could build your own, and you could feel the music. Those days seem to be gone, in an age when most people listen on headphones to mp3. the only time these people listen to systems is when they watch T-V.

But who knows? Parts Express seems to be doing well, the audio salon is still around, and JBL appears to be doing well with the L 100 classic, and Klipsch with the Heritage line.

I still engage in listening parties, with better wine and beer also, however we are all in our late 60's and 70's. enjoying each others systems and each others company. Do younger people do that?

Regarding businesses, they have to evolve with the market, and so does JBL. Although I wouldn't give a plugged nickle for the recent Harman Management Team. I can't imagine they had any idea what they were doing, and were ruining to venerable companies while they were doing it.

Hey Ian; Isn't Palm Springs a fascinating place? First time I was there I thought that maybe I'd been dropped into the middle of Sodom and Gomorrah.

Ian Mackenzie

02-11-2020, 07:59 PM

Hi Ed,

It’s good to hear stories of our Audio lives.

With the smart phone now almost a permanent fixture a persons time is now taken up by just keeping up with all the Apps. The LHS is still a well visited site by lurkers.

Yes l liked Palm Springs.

We were interested in the Modernism architecture and plan to go back again.

AlanD

02-12-2020, 01:43 AM

Colleagues;
Who among us could forget the advanced industrial design of the original L-100, L-212, or the L-300. Gorgeous to behold.....and you could build your own, and you could feel the music. Those days seem to be gone, in an age when most people listen on headphones to mp3. the only time these people listen to systems is when they watch T-V.
...
Still engage in listening parties, with better wine and beer also, however we are all in our late 60's and 70's. enjoying each others systems and each others company. Do younger people do that?

I'm not yet 40, so here are my thoughts...

- The ability to build your own stuff is definitely lost in 20 and 30 yo. Radio Shack and Fry's Electronics are gone. However, it's not completely gone. 3D printing has opening a new world of enthusiast manufacturing, however the build volumes are small (think 1 foot cube) and younger people are very used to IKEA furniture.
- "Crafting" is actually quite popular -- it seems like Joann's (the fabric store) is only growing and thriving in a world where other retailers are suffering.
- Even among traditional MP3 listeners, there is a progressive understanding that better gear = better sound and better source = critical. Services like Amazon Music HD are now streaming 24/192 and lossless tracks. Meridian MQA is giving high-resolution lossy streaming through Tidal with even Chinese hi-fi DACs supporting it. Headphones have seen a boom in the current young generation. Kids like music. JBL has sold 100 MILLION bluetooth speakers.
- The lack of home ownership among millenials severely impacts the ability to setup dedicated hifi. The lack of home ownership is probably why most "younger" people go out to dinner rather than host something.
- Movie soundtracks are a great way to get people introduced to the world of hifi audio. They're often well recorded and how many of us enjoy listening to the Star Wars Soundtrack or something from John Williams or Henry Mancini?

Project May was designed to build a reference speaker using the most exotic flagship drivers.

Imagine instead a Project "Timbers" which is intended to demonstrate the ability for this forum to develop a speaker that "brings the magic" and "sparks joy and curiosity" using low cost components. Yes, you could get a Studio 530 and keep it simple, but the process of building a speaker is definitely going to lead to bragging and the builder trying to get more people to sit down and listen, which is the goal.
A super-budget build your own system could rely on something like
1) IKEA catalog for wood (i.e. an IKEA Cutting Boards) to simplify things.
2) Commonly available JBL woofer such as
https://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-363686-001-control-1-pro-5-midrangewoofer/
3) Low cost compression driver and horn like a Selenium D220Ti and HM17-25
4) Then it would be about crossover design. I bet that you could make a baby-Array 500 with a vertical horn that would be buildable in a weekend and beat a lot of speakers out there and work great in a small room.

Use movie soundtracks or even youtube music videos and help people hear the difference. Even lossy MP3 level compression sounds better with a good speaker
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzhAS_GnJIc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo_efYhYU2A

grumpy

02-12-2020, 07:55 AM

Perhaps do a google search on "Zilch Econowave" and see what happens :)

RMC

02-13-2020, 05:03 PM

Hi Alan,

Nice to hear from someone under 40.

RE "... how many of us enjoy listening to the Star Wars Soundtrack or something from John Williams..."

Not 24/192 streaming, but could the following 1978 LP record be what you were referring to? Regards,

Richard

8585585856

AlanD

02-13-2020, 11:33 PM

https://www.npr.org/2019/08/24/753877978/john-williams-and-anne-sophie-mutter-2-geniuses-for-the-price-of-one

This is the reference quality recording I mentioned on the other thread.

Available in digital FLAC from usual sources, as well as LP
https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B07T3G4Z45/ref=tmm_fbs_vnl_title_0?ie=UTF8&qid=&sr=

duaneage

06-10-2021, 09:07 PM

I don't post like I used to. Life gets in the way like that.
I came here 17 years ago looking for drivers to make a pair of 4411 speakers. I succeeded and still have them today. I contributed a lot of projects and posts, bought and sold drivers, and made a few friends along the way.

JBL has moved on for sure but those of us who prefer our old systems are still the party faithful.

I decided today to start a new project and post it all. Originally I conceived it 6 years ago and never followed through. What the forum needs is fresh content from time to time to counter the usual questions about system price on eBay and what to do about bad surrounds.

Hopefully we can get another 20 years here.

Mr. Widget

06-10-2021, 09:47 PM

Hopefully we can get another 20 years here.
Here here!

Thanks for sharing... looking forward to seeing your project!

Widget

Ian Mackenzie

06-11-2021, 02:24 AM

Thanks for posting your project.

I agree the forum needs fresh new content from time to time.

A while back now a small number of forum members feasted on and were spoilt by the mighty Giskard efforts to obtain more current JBL driver offerings. This has polarised opinions and the volume content on these drivers in general which is unfortunate.

The reality is only a small handful of members received these more contemporary drivers while the overwhelming forum population possess real legacy drivers and systems.

As proved with Greg when l last spent time with him even the now vintage 4331 can put in a commendable performance against the Everest DD67000 when set up in the hands of a world class engineer.

Trust your ears and seek out the real facts.

Obtaining the best possible outcome with a legacy system can be compared to the lap time on a car race track. The best driver in the slowest car will always beat the worst driver in fasted car. That’s of course if the worst driver doesn’t crash on the first lap. This is the problem with an audio amateur attempting to build a loudspeaker with expensive soa drivers.

Hence l always support those who want to obtain the best best sound reproduction from legacy drivers and systems.

Robh3606

06-11-2021, 06:30 AM

Hopefully we can get another 20 years here.

Well let’s hope there is still enough interest and enough “legacy systems” left in use. I mean 20 years from now are the 530’s and 590’s going to be “legacy systems”?

One of the main reasons I was drawn into the older systems was the then unwavering support provided by JBL in the form of re-cones and customer support. When this forum first started you could get fresh re-cones on most drivers. I was able to get complete driver set’s refreshed so I was starting with essentially new drivers on DIY builds

You used to be able to call in for technical help and get people with 30+ years of experience on the phone.

When I was building my 811C clone I needed to know information about the multi-tapped Inductor used in the delay line on the woofer. After a quick call I was faxed the actual drawing of the inductor and was able to get one wound as they were NLA at the time.

Unfortunately that can’t happen today. This combined with the lack of factory re-cone kits makes any of these systems still in good condition a precious commodity.

Take good care of your systems and keep posting. That will go a long way to help make sure we are still here in 2041

Rob J
.