Urei 815C vs JBL 4350/4355

[Michael_]

Hi,

I love the Sound from Vintage JBL Speakers.
I am looking for Big Main Monitors for my private Recording Studio.

I thought about buying a pair of JBL 4350/4355 but the Urei 815C look very good to.
The Thing is i never had the chance to listen to any of those but im quite sure i will like the JBL as i like the JBL Sound.
But i never heard anything from Urei. Iv got a Urei 1178 but thats a signal processor.

So normally i would buy the JBL 4350/4355 but the Urei 815C are way cheaper:
https://reverb.com/item/10997307-2-urei-815a-1970s-vintage-studio-monitors (The ad says 815A but the Speakers say 815C)

Does someone know both and can tell me if these are in the same leaguage?
Will the 815c satisfy me if the 4350/4355 do?
The Speakers will only be used to produce and listen to electronic dance music.

[Don C]

I haven't listened to either but I found this JBL tech note to be a good read.
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?4408-JBL-Technical-Notes-Volume-1-Number-15

[Earl K]

For what it's worth, the pics of the 815C's listed in the link, are stamped with a Logo/Watermark belonging to a reseller based out of California.

I'd be quite wary that this UK listed product is legit ( I think it's a scam ).

That said, a 4345 or equivalent would be my choice for mixing electronic dance tracks.

:)

[Robh3606]

The listing is also incorrect. Those a c's not a's

Rob:)

[Michael_]

Its a sold listing, i put it up just for reference.

I just want to know if the 815C will be in the same ballpark as jbl 4350/4355.


I haven't listened to either but I found this JBL tech note to be a good read.http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?4408-JBL-Technical-Notes-Volume-1-Number-15

Yes its helpful thanks.
Seems they are in the same ballpark but somewhat different. (of course, they are different designs)
I would love to do what jbl suggest: listen to both and then decide.

Its not an easy decision, i think they are both good.
JBL might be somewhat better but the ureis will only cost a fraction of the price and seem to be pretty good too.


That said, a 4345 or equivalent would be my choice for mixing electronic dance tracks.http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif

Would you prefer 4345 over 4350/4355? if so, why?

[Mr. Widget]

The 4350/55 will play louder and with more midbass punch and less distortion up top. The 4435 and UREI will both image better than the 4350/55 and the 4435 will have the best bass of all three.

The UREIs and the 4435 are limited in terms of stress free high SPL output by their 1” compression drivers.


Widget

[rusty jefferson]

I don't know that either is suitable (desirable?) for recording/mastering electronic dance music on their own. These systems were in use when it wasn't necessary to reproduce a near square wave 15hz bass synthesizer or electronic drum kick.

I don't have working experience with the 43xx systems but I am familiar with the UREIs. Most studios EQed them, especially if they weren't soffit mounted. But they were EQed for mid-bass, not low bass. I can tell you those UREIs can be EQed enough in the mid-bass to make it hard to get out of a chair the drum kick is so solid. But even the manual stresses not to EQ them below 80hz. The drivers can't take it at high SPL and are probably only flat to 40ish hz.

My feeling is that if you want to use vintage monitors you'll need some modern high excursion subs, EQ, and some big amplifiers. I have 813C UREIs and two 18" 2245h subs under them. They're flat to 30hz in room, but you can barely hear or feel a 16hz organ pedal as they're down 10+ db at 15hz. You're going to be looking to be +6db at 15hz, not -10 for what you're doing. :)

[Michael_]

I dont need to go down to 15hz.
The Frequency Range from both the Urei's and the JBL's would be just fine.

What i want is a good sounding, linear Speaker that can go really loud.
Iv got a pair of Yamaha NS10s for reference.


The 4350/55 will play louder and with more midbass punch and less distortion up top.

I can tell you those UREIs can be EQed enough in the mid-bass to make it hard to get out of a chair the drum kick is so solid.

That punch is one of the things i really like on the JBL speakers.
But it seems urei will be nice too, also the 815C use JBL Drivers.

Its really hard to decide without listening too them.
But if both would cost the same i would go with the JBLs i guess. :D

[rusty jefferson]

I dont need to go down to 15hz.
The Frequency Range from both the Urei's and the JBL's would be just fine.....

I would respectfully disagree. The UREIs (alone) even with EQ will not play as low as you will want, without distortion. You'll need subs below them, imho.

At the time the "C" version came out JBL owned the UREI company. JBL was marketing the UREIs against the 43xx/44xx monitors. Studios had to buy something, so win/win for JBL. They are a JBL manufactured product.

[martin_wu99]

Hi,

I love the Sound from Vintage JBL Speakers.
I am looking for Big Main Monitors for my private Recording Studio.

I thought about buying a pair of JBL 4350/4355 but the Urei 815C look very good to.
The Thing is i never had the chance to listen to any of those but im quite sure i will like the JBL as i like the JBL Sound.
But i never heard anything from Urei. Iv got a Urei 1178 but thats a signal processor.

So normally i would buy the JBL 4350/4355 but the Urei 815C are way cheaper:
https://reverb.com/item/10997307-2-urei-815a-1970s-vintage-studio-monitors (The ad says 815A but the Speakers say 815C)

Does someone know both and can tell me if these are in the same leaguage?
Will the 815c satisfy me if the 4350/4355 do?
The Speakers will only be used to produce and listen to electronic dance music.
To be honest,4350/4355 and 815c is not your best choice for your electronic dance music,perhaps Genelec/Dynaudio/ADAM/Quested is more suitable for you,they are more faster/cleaner/transparent/accurate modern speakers.
4350/4355 and 815c are old school sound,it is a waste for electronic dance music.
If you like JBL so much, you can try LSR6312/708i/M2/67000:D

[Mr. Widget]

To stay with the vintage concept, how about a pair of UREI 813s with separate subs? The pair of 2215s (LE15As) in the 815c are easily overdriven. They were stunning drivers in 1960, and still quite good in 1980, but by today’s standards, they really can’t keep up.


Widget

[HCSGuy]

How low do you need the speakers to go (in approximate hertz), and how loud, in approximate decibels? How big is your room, and how far will you be from the speakers? Without any data, you will only receive speculation based on others experience, or lack of it, which usually ends poorly. I will abstain from giving too much opinion, but will focus on this: Many of us on the forum have speakers like you are considering, and have them because we rescued or purchased them from recording studios that were upgrading or going out of business. ALL of these speakers have bastard parts - non-original or reconed woofers, etc, because things get damaged in loud recording sessions, and the tech puts anything that works in the speaker to finish the session until they can repair the originals. Manufacturers like JBL assumed parts were going to fail, built their speakers to be serviced, and made lots of money selling overpriced parts to keep them working. None of these parts are available except rarely, and on the collectors market. If, like me, you were purchasing these for home use, I think you'd be fine - I like EDM, I listen to it occasionally on my 4343's, and like it, but I'm listening at maybe 85db. I equalize mine a little to pick up some extra bass, but I know there's almost an octave that just isn't there, and pushing a ported speaker at a frequency where the woofer is unloaded (20hz), is a great way to wreck it, so I don't push it. However, if you are trying to play at concert levels, playing music that is way beyond the design goal of the speaker, you are going to have repeated driver failures and will quickly run out of patience finding and buying overpriced parts. In 15yrs, I don't know that I have ever seen an original 4350 woofer (2231) recone kit available - even back then you had to put in the newer model 2235 kit, so keeping a pair of these original is impossible.

I understand the urge for a big set of monitors - if I was playing EDM on Yamaha NS10's, I'd really be itching for something big. Kind of like owning a classic Porsche but only being able to rev it in the garage - I'd really want to take it out and push it! If you have the money, my recommendation is to go buy a new pair of JBL M2's - they play loud, and low, and if you don't like them, you can resell them.

[Michael_]

This is the kind of music i make and listen too:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdCFQhSUDng

You can see a pair of urei (813 i guess?) in the Studio btw.

At the moment i got a pair of ATC SCM 25A and Yamaha NS10 (both Nearfield Monitors) but i am moving to a new bigger room soon, i will get the room optimised for the new speakers.

The ATC Speakers go down to about 50hz and im fine with that.
The JBL 4350 would go down to 30hz and the Urei 815C would go to 40hz so i think thats fine.

The biggest ATCs would also only go 5hz lower than the JBLs or 10hz if wall mounted.
https://www.da-x.de/de/atc-scm-300-asl-pro.html

Im pretty sure the JBL 4350 would satisfy me, just dont know if the Urei 815s also do.
Of course the JBL is the better speaker.
Wish i could hear both bevor making a purchase.
Especially the Ureis as i would risk it to purchase the JBLs without hearing them first.

At the moment i have a JBL PA System for checking the Tracks at Club Level in a different room.
It got JBL 2226h Bass Drivers which i really like. (and also only go down to 30hz)

[Robh3606]

Well I own a pair of 4344's and if this is what you like dedicated subwoofers is the way to go with more modern drivers up top that are repairable as in supported by the manufacturer. Any of the vintage stuff is just that vintage. It won't handle the low end with the authority of modern subs, is a bitch to get parts for and is really dated. The newer stuff is just better all around. As good as my 4344's are my smaller Arrays kick the crap out of them as an example. YMMV

Rob:)

[Michael_]

Well im not sure if i really need a Subwoofer but i think the best way to go is to look around
if i find someone with a pair of Urei 813c or 815c to have a listen first.
If i do not find one i guess i will go with the JBL 4350/4355 and if necessary add modern Subs.

[Robh3606]

Urei 813c or 815c to have a listen first.
If i do not find one i guess i will go with the JBL 4350/4355

OK if you like them great but none of them are supported so if you loose a driver and need to re-cone. You are out of luck.

Both the E-145 and 801C usable for the coaxial 15 in the 811/813/815C are long gone so are the LE-15's. The earlier Altec's coaxial s might be fixable through Great Plains. The helper woofers in those would also not be OEM re-cones.

The 4350/4355 no woofers re-cones might get luck with 2235's but can't depend on it and no 12" 2202

I don't know why you don't try a sub with what you already have might save you some money in the long run.

Well in any case good luck hope you find something you like.

Rob:)

[Michael_]

Well im willing to risk that.
I will simply buy a pair in good condition. If i really need to fix a driver some day there are special companys who do custom work...

now i will see if i can find someone with a pair of Urei 813c or 815c.

[rusty jefferson]

Yes, those are UREI 813 in the video. I can't tell if they're "B" or "C". Very different beasts. Unusual installation in that the horns which have very narrow vertical dispersion are installed at the top, and don't appear to be tilted downwards. Perhaps you could visit this studio and hear them?

It does seem that we're mostly trying to talk you out of using 40 plus year old monitors for this type of work for all the above stated reasons, but if it's what you're after....

Someone mentioned Quested monitors earlier, and I think that would be an excellent way to go. They can run hard and loud. Here's a passive pair not far from you for sale with the MC2 amplifier. It would be an easy change to go active 3 way with these and work in the digital domain, compared to either of the vintage JBL types. That soft dome midrange driver is excellent.

https://www.tutti.ch/de/vi/zuerich/tv-audio/audio-hi-fi/quested-hq-210-studio-monitor-incl-e15-mc2-amp/22011938

[Michael_]

Well those modern Monitors would may be the most rational decision, but i do not want modern Monitors.

Im pretty sure the JBL 4350/4355 is exactly what i am looking for.
The Urei 815c would be my second choice if they sound good because they look good and are way cheaper.

That Studio belongs to the Tunnel Club / Tunnel Records in Hamburg, Germany.
The Club relocated to the Reeperbahn i do not think the Studio still exist and if i doubt they still have the Urei 813's. But i may ask.

[martin_wu99]

Well those modern Monitors would may be the most rational decision, but i do not want modern Monitors.

Im pretty sure the JBL 4350/4355 is exactly what i am looking for.
The Urei 815c would be my second choice if they sound good because they look good and are way cheaper.

That Studio belongs to the Tunnel Club / Tunnel Records in Hamburg, Germany.
The Club relocated to the Reeperbahn i do not think the Studio still exist and if i doubt they still have the Urei 813's. But i may ask.
If you only like vintage JBL for your EDM studio(i'm not sure your EDM would be popular:blink:),just directly go 4355!
My order:4355>4350>4345>M9500>S9500>4435,forget Urei:D

[Michael_]

Well i really wonder why so many people are trying to talk me out of the JBL/Ureis.
In my Experience the Speakers from the 70s/80s always beat the new ones...
Back in the 90s a lot of people used speakers from the 80s for making techno, and you know what, the mixes are better as from a lot stuff released today.

thats of course just my opinion and there are of course also good speakers made today.

[Mr. Widget]

Well i really wonder why so many people are trying to talk me out of the JBL/Ureis.Experience.



In my Experience the Speakers from the 70s/80s always beat the new ones...
Back in the 90s a lot of people used speakers from the 80s for making techno, and you know what, the mixes are better as from a lot stuff released today.

thats of course just my opinion and there are of course also good speakers made today.There is a lot of junk being sold today at the lower end of the market, both home and pro, but if you tried a pair of M2s or Everest2s I think you would be blown away. There are very good reasons why JBL isn’t still making those older designs.

This isn’t to say that many of the vintage speakers don’t offer real value, but they can’t compete against the best today has to offer.


Widget

[Michael_]

Well in the end its just a suggestion that the JBL 4350/4355 are the right speaker for me as i never had the chance to listen to one. (I just like the old JBL Speakers in general)
Therefore i will see if i can find a pair of Urei 813/815c and JBL 4350/4355 to have a listen first.

Maybe your right and a modern 2 Way Speaker like the JBL M2 is better than a 3+ Way Speaker from the 80s, i guess technically it is but it comes also down to personal taste.
You cant huge on technical specs alone. :)

[Michael_]

By the way, what is a good price for a pair of Urei 815C's and JBL 4350/4355's?
I did a little research but im not really into this.

[Mr. Widget]

Don’t get me wrong, the UERIs or the big JBLs can sound great, but the newer top of the line speakers are even better.

This is my opinion, based on decades of critical listening. It is also the opinion of numerous other pros and hobbiests alike. Many of us who have chimed in here have heard most or all of the speakers we are discussing. You should try to audition the vintage AND the new monitors.



Widget

[rusty jefferson]

Try this site. It searches auction/for sale listings worldwide. I see a pair of 813A in either the UK of maybe France asking 2800 Euro, and a pair of 4350 in Spain asking 7500 Euro, plus others.

https://www.hifishark.com

[Mannermusic]

Don’t get me wrong, the UERIs or the big JBLs can sound great, but the newer top of the line speakers are even better.

This is my opinion, based on decades of critical listening. It is also the opinion of numerous other pros and hobbiests alike. Many of us who have chimed in here have heard most or all of the speakers we are discussing. You should try to audition the vintage AND the new monitors.



Widget
+1
Bottom line: THERE JUST ARE NO PARTS! Recently researched the aftermarket offerings for LE15 and the basic R is not even correct. Would have to re-tweak the crossover, etc. Loosing battle.

[martin_wu99]

Don’t get me wrong, the UERIs or the big JBLs can sound great, but the newer top of the line speakers are even better.

This is my opinion, based on decades of critical listening. It is also the opinion of numerous other pros and hobbiests alike. Many of us who have chimed in here have heard most or all of the speakers we are discussing. You should try to audition the vintage AND the new monitors.



Widget
Mr.Widget,i'm afraid i could't agree with you on your certain viewpoints,i don't think the newer top of the line speakers will beat vintage JBL speakers in every aspect,because vintage JBL speakers have special taste than modern speakers especially on Jazz/Vocal/Pop/Classic music,even Rock&Roll,vintage JBL speakers have more rich emotion sound than new ones,that's why so many of us like vintage JBL speakers so much for so many years:Dbut for modern music, vintage JBL speakers are hard to win modern speakers.

[Dr.db]

i don't think the newer top of the line speakers will beat vintage JBL speakers in every aspect,because vintage JBL speakers have special taste than modern speakers especially on Jazz/Vocal/Pop/Classic music,even Rock&Roll,vintage JBL speakers have more rich emotion sound than new ones

I guess the vintage 4-way systems offer more dynamic impact due to the use of a 10-12" midwoofer.
This probably makes them sound more livelike and punchy than the modern 3-way systems...

But the modern systems excel in other categories...

[martin_wu99]

I guess the vintage 4-way systems offer more dynamic impact due to the use of a 10-12" midwoofer.
This probably makes them sound more livelike and punchy than the modern 3-way systems...

But the modern systems excel in other categories...
Usually modern speakers have more dynamic range:crying:

[Doctor_Electron]

Michael,
Please excuse my curiosity regarding your ultimate choices. I have done a fair bit of studio work in the not so distant past, so I know what my preferences could boil down to, which would likely be JBL and Urei. However, your thread and the nature of the numerous informed responses to it leave me at a loss as to why you would choose any system that you have not even heard.

Aside from the significant issue mentioned regarding parts availability, which can only become worse year by year, I am not convinced that the 4350/4355 types, as awesome as the truly are, would be the best monitors for the actual processes of tracking and mixing. If you will be producing content for use in your clubs, I can see it. But if the music you produce will be distributed to customers and played on their own wide-ranging choice of reproducers, I think there would be a critical disconnect since few of those end users would have loudspeakers with close to the sound qualities of the big, (BIG) JBL's.

Consider the choice of monitors by the late, great engineer and Imagineer Drew Daniels, whose studio was Sound Path Labs http://www.drewdaniels.com/ No large-format monitors, but rather JBL 250 Ti's and a number of much less vintage, smaller LSR's.

I know Drew would never produce records of less than the absolutely finest quality attainable. Obviously, his choice of monitors was KEY.

Considering your ample resources, the best solution IMHO would be having the incredible modern TOTL JBL's and/or UREI's for serious work, and some 4350/4355 for your personal listening pleasure and WOW factor.

In any case I know you will wind up with extraordinary speakers. That said, please bear in mind the importance of practical issues in the use of monitors for the creation of musical recordings of excellent and even better quality.

Regards abd best of luck, D.E., FSP/ML (Former Studio Person / Music Lover)

[onkel böckes]

Hello, im new in this Forum and im from Germany.
My english is not so good but i hope you understand me.

I gad found this threat and i hope i can help.
I owned a lot of speakers an a lot of Main Monitors.

I had Tannoy DMT 215,Tannoy SRM15, Technics SB-M1,M2 an SB100, Jbl Olympus, 4412, 4310,11,12,JBL 4435,JBL4355,Urei 813C,809A,Geithain RL900 an RL901.
In 4 weaks i became an Urei 815C.

An i can say, take the Urei 815C.

The 4355 is more problematic to drive an you need a very big room.
The Urei is Coaxial and it is better for musikproduction, clear and direkt.

Best wishes
Michael

[JeffW]

Welcome to the forum, your English is fine!

[Dave M]

I own (and owned) three generations of JBL studio monitors. 4425, UREI 813C and DMS-1. 813C is a nice classic sounding monitor, a kind of speaker that the more you like it the longer you live with it. It has some magic, and no wonder why it was ubiquitous in pro world in 70-80s. It has the sound signature of Altec 604, but in JBL way. Great midrange. 813C has been sitting in our living room, and we love them. Bottom end is somewhat soft, and the resolution is not something you'll be proud of compared to the other average modern monitors, so I'm a bit skeptical that 813C is suitable for modern studio production environment if you do a lot of electronic stuffs.

You'll want to replace 815C crossover caps with decent film ones. Original electrolytic caps sound bad from the beginning, and they are all dried out by now, which makes the speaker sound like old PA speakers sitting at at the lounge of the old hotel in Havana for 50 years, seriously.

I sold 4425 after I got 813C (Just because I have too many speakers). 4425 has its own charm; sparkling high end. I miss it sometimes. What JBL paper say is very true, UREI is more forwarding (beamy) than Bi-radial horn. I have no doubt 4435 to be a nice monitor. DMS-1 is the large monitor I currently use in my private studio. High resolution, tight but weighty bass, less warmth, more analytical. DMS was a JBL's least successful pro monitor, but it is a very capable monitor even today.

I do believe you have to soffit mount them for proper bass extension for studio monitoring, either you get UREI or 4435.

I guess the reason why 4435 is now more expensive that UREI is, 443x were also sold as consumer products. Very few people have a chance to hear UREI, and no one knows what UREI is. Also very few professional is buying large monitor these days as you know. Well, UREI looks like a huge Marshall stack with a blue packaging material is still attached for some reasons, so WAF is low, but for studio, who cares. Remember, UREI 815C was twice as expensive as 4435 when they were new. $2000 for a pair? super deal, I would snatch them if I don't own 813C already.

Good luck with your studio, and have fun!

[onkel böckes]

Thank you.:)

84263

[onkel böckes]

84264

84265

84266

I have buy my 813Cs from an Studio in Berlin.
I had them at the German JBL Pro Service.
The Crossovers where like new, no parts was bad.
Best Price/Sound Speaker for me.

[martin_wu99]

Great collection!

[Dave M]

Very nice speakers. I also like your rooms. :)
I may want to try to paint UREI white like yours.
It doesn't look like a Marshall cabinet any more.

PS: If I would buy another large monitor, it would be Me Geithain. I heard them several times and I'm very impressed.

[onkel böckes]

Thanks a lot.:)

ME Geithain are fantastic for Music Production an at home to.

But there are not so loud and for rockmusik i dont like him.
Fleetwood Macs The Chain the Basspart in the Middel of the Song.
Of big Mains is fantastic, the Geithain dont bring that feeling.

Aktual i have a pair Geithain RL901.
Here fresh from the unpacking.

84269

[onkel böckes]

Update Urei 815C in House.

84281

[Ed Kreamer]

Michael, Dr. Electron pointed you in the direction of Drew Daniels monitors, and might I suggest you consider his ultimate Hi-Fi speakers which can be found in the jbl library under perspectives. You could build it with modern drivers that could be repaired. You could make more noise than a Louisiana house of ill-repute when the fleets in. As nice as they are, the systems you are looking at should be retired to domestic duty.

Have Fun

Ed

[DerekTheGreat]

Thanks a lot.:)

ME Geithain are fantastic for Music Production an at home to.

But there are not so loud and for rockmusik i dont like him.
Fleetwood Macs The Chain the Basspart in the Middel of the Song.
Of big Mains is fantastic, the Geithain dont bring that feeling.

Aktual i have a pair Geithain RL901.
Here fresh from the unpacking.



Dead thread, I know. However, I had to comment when I read the part about Fleetwood Mac's, "The Chain" and how it sounds on UREI's: I don't consider myself to be a big Fleetwood Mac fan, but yep, it's a damn fantastic experience that'll grab your attention. What stood out to me was the realism with the way the guitar strings rattled off the frets and the resonance of the deeper tones coupled with that clear guitar pickin', gave me chills. Cool to read someone else had a similar experience.