Album sales, digital or streaming, are plummeting

[Ducatista47]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/the-album-is-in-deep-trouble-and-the-music-business-probably-cant-save-it-753795/

[SEAWOLF97]

I Thought CDs Were Supposed To Be Dying, But Maybe I Got It All Wrong

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2018/11/10/cds-dying-wrong/?fbclid=IwAR0MzA69jyQE-u4FrcMfXhOOitinHuTeEOOvgOl9v8j4sUwSoevKJGOap_Y#591 9a2777dca

[Fritz The Cat]

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/the-album-is-in-deep-trouble-and-the-music-business-probably-cant-save-it-753795/


Never mind!

[Ducatista47]

I Thought CDs Were Supposed To Be Dying, But Maybe I Got It All Wrong

https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyowsinski/2018/11/10/cds-dying-wrong/?fbclid=IwAR0MzA69jyQE-u4FrcMfXhOOitinHuTeEOOvgOl9v8j4sUwSoevKJGOap_Y#591 9a2777dca

"All major labels have divested their CD manufacturing and the companies that bought those factories have moved them to Mexico." No surprise there, but disappointing none the less.

[Fritz The Cat]

Big business major labels were not fair to new talents or individualists. (At least during the last 30 years). Therefore let's go to the concerts at small venues with unknown music groups. Backen wir doch wieder kleine Brötchen! Diese munden besser und machen keine Verdauungsbeschwerden!

[SEAWOLF97]

"All major labels have divested their CD manufacturing and the companies that bought those factories have moved them to Mexico." No surprise there, but disappointing none the less.

BUT ... I keep reading about how the vinyl record pressing plants are running 24/7 and about the worldwide searches for old presses to import (no matter what the condition)

Got to admit tho that when too lazy to cue up a licorice pizza, streaming is handy ..;)
(especially now when all I have to do is say "computer, start Pandora" within voice range of the PC.)

[Fritz The Cat]

BUT ... I keep reading about how the vinyl record pressing plants are running 24/7 and about the worldwide searches for old presses to import (no matter what the condition)

Got to admit tho that when too lazy to cue up a licorice pizza, streaming is handy ..;)
(especially now when all I have to do is say "computer, start Pandora" within voice range of the PC.)


Most of the vinyl pressing plants in Europe were displaced in the 80ies to east European countries, especially to Czechia and Slowakia.They are running hot these days. Because of the lack of spare parts and the fuss, the pressing process is mostly not yet on the same high level as it was usual in the 60ies and 70ies. Mostly, the new pressed vinyl needs to be cleaned before first playing. But the haptic of these vinyl discs and the elaborate sleeves are difficult to be streamed...

[Ducatista47]

There is a huge difference between how music is physically played and a niche market share trending up. The initial feature I reported showcased how listeners are now acquiring a play. It is overwhelmingly tracks rather than records/albums/collections by artists, physical or not. Listeners like us are living in a bubble; most sub baby boomer people don't buy stereos anymore, multitask their music listening, and don't care about physical media. CDs are declining but vinyl has never risen above a blip on the market share radar since its resurgence. Industries love to talk about growth but larger tiny share is still tiny. As vinyl gained against CDs, multiple song physical media presence was plunging to the floor as a reflection of how music is played.

When I go to audio shows I am always struck about how few people are participating in our hobby. Many thousands for sure, but that's against hundreds of millions who do listen to music but don't participate in our gear and media types. We are tiny, not mighty. To most music listeners we are like the Stones' 19th Nervous Breakdown lyric. "...And your father's still perfecting ways of making sealing wax..." Tubes, tape, and vinyl getting a second wind didn't do the popularity of our hobby any favors. Now that digital recording and playback combined with great sounding newer Class D amplification could make this much more available and affordable, the larger listening World has already moved on.

[Mr. Widget]

There is a huge difference between how music is physically played and a niche market share trending up... listening World has already moved on.Yep. We aren’t even a rounding error.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

the larger listening World has already moved on.

yes, BUT ..who cares abt the larger listening World :dont-know:

few listen to classical .... I do.
many think a pod and ear things are HiFi ... I don't
fewer these days own a home to house a big stereo ... I do.
many think The Canadian Beeber is great .. I don't
few would spend more than $100 on speakers ... I do
many are happy with $20 blutooth reproducers ... I'm not

etc..etc..etc... guess I'm NOT part of the larger listening World and suspect NOT many of us here on LHF are :dont-know:

[Ducatista47]

yes, BUT ..who cares abt the larger listening World :dont-know:

few listen to classical .... I do.
many think a pod and ear things are HiFi ... I don't
fewer these days own a home to house a big stereo ... I do.
many think The Canadian Beeber is great .. I don't
few would spend more than $100 on speakers ... I do
many are happy with $20 blutooth reproducers ... I'm not

etc..etc..etc... guess I'm NOT part of the larger listening World and suspect NOT many of us here on LHF are :dont-know:

My point is that we like to think there should be more like-minded music consumers, but at every turn, we have raised the barriers to entry. I sincerely believe that for every listener who glories in the exclusivity of high end listening, there are many more who would welcome more converts to greater fidelity in listening.

[SEAWOLF97]

My point is that we like to think there should be more like-minded music consumers, but at every turn, we have raised the barriers to entry. I sincerely believe that for every listener who glories in the exclusivity of high end listening, there are many more who would welcome more converts to greater fidelity in listening.

sorry, I think that boat has sailed. "Audiophiles" seem to be ridiculed by the rest of the world ... $10K interconnects,etc. surely contribute to the false notion that it is a rich man's pastime and NOT for the masses.

the definition of "high fidelity" has changed. Have met so many that think
HiFi means spending 10 bucks more for Boze ear buds instead of generic junk. :banghead:

[Robh3606]

yes, BUT ..who cares abt the larger listening World :dont-know:

few listen to classical .... I do.
many think a pod and ear things are HiFi ... I don't
fewer these days own a home to house a big stereo ... I do.
many think The Canadian Beeber is great .. I don't
few would spend more than $100 on speakers ... I do
many are happy with $20 blutooth reproducers ... I'm not

etc..etc..etc... guess I'm NOT part of the larger listening World and suspect NOT many of us here on LHF are :dont-know:



My point is that we like to think there should be more like-minded music consumers, but at every turn, we have raised the barriers to entry. I sincerely believe that for every listener who glories in the exclusivity of high end listening, there are many more who would welcome more converts to greater fidelity in listening.


I don't think it is as bleak as you think. I know vinyl is a niche but people who by vinyl are in essence a future generation of like minded people. I do lots of small venue shows and most of these artists are younger musicians with a following in their 20's. My point is many of them, close to half, have short run limited edition vinyl pressings available and at their shows at merch tables. It's the "kids" purchasing them.

Rob:)

[Ducatista47]

I go to concerts, clubs and other gigs, I go to audio shows, I know some twentysomethings - my kids and their friends are all in their twenties - and I meet many more. I know why they want vinyl and they think they will get great sound with a hundred dollar table. I listen to systems at home that sound more accurate than vinyl ever did and ever could at any price, but they are costly. Not as costly as vinyl, though. The only reason I think it's all good for the kids is that, like 99% of audiophiles, they all have their favorite distortion and that's what they really want, plus nostalgia for an era and experience that was before they were born so they won't recognize if they actually capture it or not. They will definitely enjoy it, and that's what counts. They will join millions of listeners who enjoy music but they will be paying a lot more for it, and that will keep good systems out of most hands. Which means our hobby's numbers can maintain but not grow.

Vinyl and its attendant gear being a pricy way to seek great sound (and I personally find it doesn't do that for me, so sorry, not a fan), our numbers will remain small. That's why I mentioned digital recording and playback and Class D, which can now deliver great sound for a small fraction of the cost of the stuff we use. Promote that and our numbers will grow exponentially. I want to see as many music fans as possible experience great reproduction but our way will always be too expensive to make a serious impact. Something else that would help, twentysomethings use personal listening, not speakers, and if someone tells them how to buy $125 in ears that sound really outstanding instead of falling for the overpriced crap they are steered to now, the equation would be complete. Just keep younger people away from the magazines and the shows or they will drink the Kool-ade too.

For generations, types like us have been recruiting new blood by showing people our home systems. In this era that only discourages them because they think they need our approach to succeed, and younger people don't have much money these days. They don't need to anymore. Show them a modest but great sounding small home or personal system, or both, as I described. Inexpensive, sounds terrific, WA(F) guaranteed. Getting expensive to chase the last 2% of fidelity (and usually not getting it in my experience) is obsessive, and counterproductive to widening appeal. My twentysomethings are already on the right track. They don't care about ultimate low bass reproduction or laser-like imaging and soundstage. They only care if the music is good or not and sounds undistorted. Today not many dollars and no floorspace to speak of will get you that, firmly in 98% fidelity territory. If it is a speaker based system, a Class D powered subwoofer could be added at a later time and should be the main upgrade, if one is desired. I use a 10" JBL unit bought online at discount for $250. Class D powered subs last a long time. Unlike plate amps, they don't get hot and their chip-based architecture is far less troubled by vibration.

[Fritz The Cat]

Machen wir uns keine Illusionen. Musik in allen ihren Facetten ist und bleibt ein Konsumgut. Jedem das Seine! Sie ist den üblichen Marktprinzipien unterworfen, wie Uhren, Autos und Spaghetti...

[SEAWOLF97]

sure, my son has his L-100's , SL-1200 and Sennheisers and fine appreciation for music, BUT all that is mainly because of his exposure to Dad. (me)

He sells records on Discogs and of course is album oriented. BUT in my humble experience, he is an exception within todays music consumers. Think of all the process and maintenance involved in LP playback. Most post 1990 receivers dont even have phono inputs. CD's are now even too cumbersome . It's the "rent music, not buy" scheme. This facilitates the consumer to be "track pickers" , not full album/disk listeners. Most of us have our favorite concept album (SPLHCB, Realization, Eldorado, LVB's symphony's , The Wall, Tommy,DoFP, etc. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_concept_albums) and track cherry picking those just rather ruins the concept. :o:

He is, tho, among his group as being always hurried and mobile. With kids, his only real listening time on the JBL's is when the munchkins are asleep or away.

His friends bring over their latest acquired disks to "see what they REALLY sound like" . Sure , there is still an appreciation for "HiFi" , but it comes with too much cost & bother for today's masses. A pod and buds suffice. IMHO.

and YES, I suspect many LHFer's live in a music bubble. :blink: I do.

[Mr. Widget]

Most post 1990 receivers don't even have phono inputs.That had been true. I don't know if it is marketing driven or market driven, but every AVR I have sold in recent years do once again include a mediocre phono preamp. And while the majority of the music systems we install are designed with Sonos as the sole input source, a growing number are also including a turntable.


CD's are now even too cumbersome.For me they are. I see no benefit to handling the silver disc when I can rip it to a drive and not fuss with the jewel box ever again.

For me, it is all about quality. If I can have convenience with no sacrifice in quality I'm all for it, if on the other hand that convenience comes at a quality cost, then I'll forgo the convenience. Circling back around to the topic of this thread it appears most music users/lovers are happy to give up a little (or in some cases a lot) of quality for convenience. Cost too I suppose. Most consumers seem willing to have poorer audio quality at a lower cost.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

I do lots of small venue shows and most of these artists are younger musicians with a following in their 20's. My point is many of them, close to half, have short run limited edition vinyl pressings available and at their shows at merch tables. It's the "kids" purchasing them.

Rob:)


I go to concerts, clubs and other gigs, I go to audio shows, I know some twentysomethings - my kids and their friends are all in their twenties - and I meet many more. I know why they want vinyl and they think they will get great sound with a hundred dollar table.

I go to a couple of "record shows" a year. The clientele is roughly divided into 2 age groups. UNDER 35's & OVER 55's. virtually nothing in the middle.

Portland has more "record stores per capita" than any major city in the US.

Why ? Is it sound quality ? Ease of use ? Or is it cool ?

I have a friend who sells TT's on craigs list. Ran across him in a thrift store where he was buying a cheap black plastic Wards Airline TT. I asked "you appreciate good gear, why are you buying this junk" ??

His answer floored me. "this junk sells fast. the 20 somethings do NOT care about sound quality , the kids just want to tell their friends that they are "spinning' vinyl"

[Ducatista47]

Widget and Wolf, excellent observations and intel. Good to know.

Around here, younger listeners are buying or wanting turntables because they have been convinced by advocates that vinyl is superior to digital in every way. The audiophile take on analog has made it out of the print outlets and shows to the street. And probably into folklore. I am also getting the "It is way cool" vibe here too.

[SEAWOLF97]

Around here, younger listeners are buying or wanting turntables because they have been convinced by advocates that vinyl is superior to digital in every way.

I'm NOT "into" tubes, but they spout the same selling point
"tubes are better than solid state"

that's a road too far for me. :blink:

[Ducatista47]

I'm NOT "into" tubes, but they spout the same selling point
"tubes are better than solid state"

that's a road too far for me. :blink:
Quite similar. Both came to prominence as Apples versus Oranges evaluations. Well-designed tube amps compared to early transistor amps from a time when preventing the bipolar device outputs from running away and destroying the amps was a victory. With the vinyl renaissance, expertly engineered vinyl titles vs the early era really crappy sounding CDs when hardly anyone knew what they were doing. I knew better; I had some Nimbus Records discs and they were superbly recorded and engineered. They still sound fantastic.

Another factor, the elephant in the room really, was/still is the highly euphonic nature of vinyl and tubes. That has proved for most to be a tough habit to break. Such things prompted me to coin my aforementioned "Everyone has their favorite distortion". Don Gort, now gone but half of the team at the local audiophile shop, loved and was a true believer in tubes and vinyl. He would not at all like the way my current systems sound. He was a world class great guy and a good friend, so it was all good. I don't use any of the gear I got from him anymore, but I still find it difficult to part with.

[Mr. Widget]

A bit off topic but, in my experience the vast majority of my customers who seek tubes and/or vinyl are after the “cool factor”. Few are after a performance upgrade which in my opinion is not guaranteed by going with either of those technologies anyway.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

A bit off topic but, in my experience the vast majority of my customers who seek tubes and/or vinyl are after the “cool factor”. Few are after a performance upgrade which in my opinion is not guaranteed by going with either of those technologies anyway.


Widget

sure, as you know ...SOME LP's can sound very good. BETTER ?? not usually.

part of the attraction for me is; there just is some material that is NOT available
in any other form. For me, there is some fun digging thru boxes and finding forgotten gems.

Plus, to be a dedicated "vinyl spinner" you have to be rather process oriented and somewhat AR.
Cool :dont-know: ... really doesn't come into my equation. It's just the format that got me into music appreciation.

IF I were starting at ground zero (no gear at all), vinyl would probably not be in a future system.

[Fritz The Cat]

sure, as you know ...SOME LP's can sound very good. BETTER ?? not usually.

part of the attraction for me is; there just is some material that is NOT available
in any other form. For me, there is some fun digging thru boxes and finding forgotten gems.

Plus, to be a dedicated "vinyl spinner" you have to be rather process oriented and somewhat AR.
Cool :dont-know: ... really doesn't come into my equation. It's just the format that got me into music appreciation.

IF I were starting at ground zero (no gear at all), vinyl would probably not be in a future system.

Agree. You have to compare the different pressings of vinyl issues. Country? First 10'000 pressings? Original pressing? Reissue of a master tape? Quality of reissue, mastering by ....? Weight and quality of vinyl? Storage conditions? Caregiving.........
Many many many vinyl-LPs are junk,(they are known!) Some pressings are superior. Some pressings are fantastic. But these are mostly expensive. Therefore it's nearly impossible to start a vinyl-collection today. Therefore the fanatic collectors are 50 years +. But soon these collections will be in the hand of their daughters and sons.

[SEAWOLF97]

Album sales, digital or streaming, are plummeting

Album sales :dont-know:

talked to my son last night, he may not agree about plummeting...

last week the secondary site where he sells LP's tagged him as
"featured seller". In 3 days he had over $2,000 in orders. Took
4 days of boxing/shipping to catch up. ;)

[SEAWOLF97]

talked to my son last night, he may not agree about plummeting...

Oh yeah, one thing I forgot to mention from our conversation; the owner of his secondary selling site referred a CNBC reporter to Chris and did a 20 minute phone interview about the used LP business, watching a 3 y.o. son at the same time and general background.

Not sure if/when it will be published, but he was honored with the attention :)