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ian r
04-14-2018, 01:15 AM
as a newcomer i realise this is not about passive xovers but xover geeks maybe the place to ask for pointers.

i believe i need to repair the xovers. if any readers have a reliable pair or a pair for me to have as spares do let me know

salut

Earl K
04-14-2018, 04:54 AM
as a newcomer i realise this is not about passive xovers but xover geeks maybe the place to ask for pointers.

i believe i need to repair the xovers. if any readers have a reliable pair or a pair for me to have as spares do let me know

salut

I believe that you're best off to make up a pair using newer parts ( rather than waiting for a reliable pair to appear ).

You can buy parts in the UK from someone like Blue Aran (https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?browsemode=category&category=Speaker_Components&masthead=Crossover_Components&subheadnew=Capacitors)

Here's the schematic ( included within ) the Tech Sheet for the S109 (http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/S109%20Aquarius%20IV%20ts.pdf)

Your le20 tweeters can also be replaced by le25 or le26 tweeters if need be.

Troels Gravesen on his site (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm) has published lots of good info on these vintage JBL tweeters. (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JBL_LE20-25.htm)

:)

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 05:11 AM
I notice that on the tech sheet the recommended replacement is 035 TiA.

Plenty of aftermarket versions of this here (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-035TIA-Copy-Tweeter-for-L1-L3-L5-L7-250TIBQ-Speaker/150632460310?hash=item231264f016:g:hhgAAOxywh1S~UN X) can anyone vouch for the quality ?

also copy le25 here (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-LE25-Copy-Tweeter-Fits-4311-4311B-4312-Speakers/162686695823?epid=18008048248&hash=item25e0e1f98f:g:eUYAAOSwwTlUpwnY)

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 05:24 AM
I notice that on the tech sheet the recommended replacement is 035 TiA.

Plenty of aftermarket versions of this here (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-035TIA-Copy-Tweeter-for-L1-L3-L5-L7-250TIBQ-Speaker/150632460310?hash=item231264f016:g:hhgAAOxywh1S~UN X) can anyone vouch for the quality ?

2.2mH inductor cheaper from CPC than Blue aran herehttp://cpc.farnell.com/visaton/5020/inductor-air-core-2-2mh-0-8r/dp/FT01427

Earl K
04-14-2018, 05:54 AM
Hi Mac,

Since I have no purchasing experience from the UK, where do think is the best place to buy network parts ( for a UK citizen )?

:)

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 08:58 AM
Hi Mac,

Since I have no purchasing experience from the UK, where do think is the best place to buy network parts ( for a UK citizen )?

:)

There used to be a guy but he sold his biz , possibly to Blue Aran. Let me have a scratch about

here you go .... http://audio-components.co.uk/

here's yer 2mH : https://www.hificollective.co.uk/catalog/000-1216-2mh-jantzen-air-core-wire-coil.html

12 quid.


Ferrite core from Falcon https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/audio-inductors-ferrite-air-core-iron-dust/audio-inductors-2mh-4mh-ferrite-air-core-iron-dust/hp071-high-power-low-loss-ferrite-core-201-225mh-audio-inductor.html


5 quid


Capacitors from Falcon https://www.falconacoustics.co.uk/alcap-claritycap-solen-audio-capacitors.html

prices don't seem scary

ian r
04-14-2018, 09:08 AM
I notice that on the tech sheet the recommended replacement is 035 TiA.

Plenty of aftermarket versions of this here (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-035TIA-Copy-Tweeter-for-L1-L3-L5-L7-250TIBQ-Speaker/150632460310?hash=item231264f016:g:hhgAAOxywh1S~UN X) can anyone vouch for the quality ?


I can locate genuine Le20 on the bay but obviously old, most have some indication they work with multimeter readings etc

2.2mH inductor cheaper from CPC than Blue aran herehttp://cpc.farnell.com/visaton/5020/inductor-air-core-2-2mh-0-8r/dp/FT01427


Thanks for ths very much

I sill havent got access to inspect the xovers

i dont want to HaVE to go down below the woofer rather than simply unscrew the xover board.... which maybe bigger than the actual hole....

I have unscrewed it that but the board is glued in very tightly and sealed

ian r
04-14-2018, 09:12 AM
Most kind to send such a link re blue aran and schematic


the inestimable troels gravesen

its a few years since i was there re Tannoys.

Thats good news re tweeter alternatives - these seem to fit id like them if others feel its a runner


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-JBL-LE20-1-Dome-Tweeter-Speakers-Pair-Matched-Lancer-66-77-88-99-4310/292143430128?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649


I believe that you're best off to make up a pair using newer parts ( rather than waiting for a reliable pair to appear ).

You can buy parts in the UK from someone like Blue Aran (https://www.bluearan.co.uk/index.php?browsemode=category&category=Speaker_Components&masthead=Crossover_Components&subheadnew=Capacitors)

Here's the schematic ( included within ) the Tech Sheet for the S109 (http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/S109%20Aquarius%20IV%20ts.pdf)

Your le20 tweeters can also be replaced by le25 or le26 tweeters if need be.

Troels Gravesen on his site (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Diy_Loudspeaker_Projects.htm) has published lots of good info on these vintage JBL tweeters. (http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/JBL_LE20-25.htm)

:)

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 09:34 AM
Ian put a shout out on the forum marketplace. There are plenty of members here with serious squirrel tendencies.

ian r
04-14-2018, 09:49 AM
Ian put a shout out on the forum marketplace. There are plenty of members here with serious squirrel tendencies.


I wondered if there was one

Beautiful day here

Earl K
04-14-2018, 09:50 AM
Ian put a shout out on the forum marketplace. There are plenty of members here with serious squirrel tendencies.


Okay Mac!

That is seriously funny ( because it's so true ).

:)

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 09:58 AM
Thanks for ths very much

I sill havent got access to inspect the xovers

i dont want to HaVE to go down below the woofer rather than simply unscrew the xover board.... which maybe bigger than the actual hole....

I have unscrewed it that but the board is glued in very tightly and sealed

Whats the blockage ? Is the input panel not budging.? A sharp knock with a bit of wood impelled by a hammer placed in one of the corners :banghead:

I doubt that the factory glued them but AN other may have done so along the road

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 10:10 AM
Okay Mac!

That is seriously funny ( because it's so true ).

:)

I'd be willing to put money on there being at least 20 pairs of working 2108's lurking in boxes in cupboards.:(

ian r
04-14-2018, 12:07 PM
Whats the blockage ? Is the input panel not budging.? A sharp knock with a bit of wood impelled by a hammer placed in one of the corners :banghead:

I doubt that the factory glued them but AN other may have done so along the road

Well the dealer may have sealed them up when refoaming etc took place as there is clear glue/ sealant all around the join between cab and input panel

So no,its not budged a micron..but I will go and have a go the noo
Such encouragement to get robust is so helpful, i have no sense of fragility etc yet

Ta da

Im in... its sunset here so more tomorrow

What i realised is that one has to undo all 6 screws around the panel and not the 4 which look relevant with the lowest 2 some 6 inches away

but they dont look connected to the panel logically..

cheers Macaroonie

ian r
04-14-2018, 12:53 PM
couldnt resist going in further

The component on the xover look perfect and i mean perfect, in line, untouched and unstressed ...at least visually and the wax looks perfect and clean as do the cardboard rings around the wax

The fibreglass wadding is undisturbed.

I cannot find my watch screwdriver with the microscopic phillips head to get in the pot knob retaining grubscrew


Can anyone say what is the fixture method as that screw seems unbelievably small...i can hardly see it and im guessing its a phillips ....

By twisting the panel about with the wire on i found the tags coming out of the presence pot... so i sprayed contact cleaner in all 3 of them... more in hope than anticipation...however some cleaner must have got in as the pot now turns very pukka and feel tight and not granular anymore

On sight alone the xover looks good.

So The cab I opened did have the flaky presence knob but it had the louder oomph when playing... so i felt the xover is an issue in the other one ...which i will open tomorrow

I noticed several phillips bolts are missing from the tweeter panel... is such detail listed somewhere i havent looked...?

as i will need to clamp it up again...

hi quality work much in evidence in the wiring and construction

macaroonie
04-14-2018, 01:45 PM
Generally wirewound pots suffer from 1 oxidation 2 general muck and athospheric polution ( cigar smoke , coal fire fumes , hairspray etc ) bear in mind that there is a handy air pump working away when the speaker is playing . and 3 when the contact becomes bad there may be tiny arcing at the the contact point of the pot wiper.

In my experience for the most part these pots stay in the same position for years and years. Hence the other windings will become dirty as described meaning erratic contact.
I have found that by winding the pot over its full range ( in conjunction with contact cleaner ) many times then the wiper and the windings are effectively cleaned for service.

Sometimes its 10 times sometimes 40

This may be sufficient to clear things up but the fact remains that after 50 years the caps will be off. Inductor should be ok and you can test the resistors. No burning is a good sign. Re solder all the joints.

ian r
04-15-2018, 07:06 AM
Generally wirewound pots suffer from 1 oxidation 2 general muck and athospheric polution ( cigar smoke , coal fire fumes , hairspray etc ) bear in mind that there is a handy air pump working away when the speaker is playing . and 3 when the contact becomes bad there may be tiny arcing at the the contact point of the pot wiper.

In my experience for the most part these pots stay in the same position for years and years. Hence the other windings will become dirty as described meaning erratic contact.
I have found that by winding the pot over its full range ( in conjunction with contact cleaner ) many times then the wiper and the windings are effectively cleaned for service.

Sometimes its 10 times sometimes 40

This may be sufficient to clear things up but the fact remains that after 50 years the caps will be off. Inductor should be ok and you can test the resistors. No burning is a good sign. Re solder all the joints.


It is unusually clean in there, the JBL dealer lived with his sister all his life and given it was a family business she kept the stock clean.... my point being its squeakily clean in there..perhaps theres a net to keep the fibrewool in place...but that was quite stiff and sitting well.

After pot cleaning theres a definite change for the sweeter tweeter. In the long run I may rewire (improve ) when i do the tweeter changeback. I hope I get some correct ones from the marketplace. So i will leave the resolder till then

The other unit has a definite lower presence or volume re use of balance control and listening but its pot has a good feel to its turning. Fingers crossed for cleaning. Just sold my house yesterday so priorities etc

I will try and take a,pic of the next one. Those speaker terminals are a national disgrace!

ian r
04-17-2018, 01:09 PM
Ian put a shout out on the forum marketplace. There are plenty of members here with serious squirrel tendencies.


I am keeping my fingers crossed ... but no offers so far.im am tempted to buy those ebay ones... did you look at the link... am i crazy?