Anything old is vintage...anything vintage has value

[DavidF]

I don't go looking for vintage audio gear but all things old seem to have some amount of cache lately, warranted or not.

These speakers are offered on eBay for $195 buy-it-now. One woofer is "a little scratchy when played loud". I don't intend to make judgment on this particular auction or this particular seller. I just happened to see it.

This product is just a cheap, stylistic marketing-heavy design with no budget for (I hesitate to say engineering) to get to a very low price point. Reeks in gimmickry but... it has that name Sansui.

Maybe this seller will never get this kind of price and I am making noise over a non-issue. Still it seems that equipment that is worthy now has an over-the-top price attached.

Not just speakers, either.

:crying:


80510

[Mr. Widget]

While I agree with your analysis of these speakers, I have a different take on the value or perceived value of “vintage” items.

I think it is based on nostalgia. Nostalgia changes with the generations and so the value of vintage items moves up and down with the generations. The antiques of my parents’ generation generally have lost a lot of their value today and the objects that my generation coveted in our youth are ridiculously over valued today and will likely lose their value as we pass on.


Widget

[Maxwelhse]

objects that my generation coveted in our youth are ridiculously over valued today and will likely lose their value as we pass on.


Exactly this. I've seen this same cycle in the car world. It was tri-5 Chevys that you couldn't touch for under 20 grand for absolute junk back in the 90s, then it was muscle cars in the 2000s, now it's starting to switch to some import models (like the recent legal importation of Skylines from Japan now that they're 25 years old) and then straight to the brand new stuff because it's all making horsepower that we couldn't dream of 20 years ago so if that's your goal you'd be a fool not to do it.

The first 2 auctions for 55 Chevys on eBay that I just glanced at both look like decent cars and are both under $20k, and that's eBay. I haven't seen a 55 on the road in ages, in any condition, but brand new Camaros and Mustangs that cost 3x more with pretty young guys driving them are raining from the sky. Time marches on...

To frame it another way, I wonder how strong the Beanie Baby market is these days...?

[srm51555]

I think it is based on nostalgia. Nostalgia changes with the generations and so the value of vintage items moves up and down with the generations.

Sure is, I now see the Sansui 9090 go for hundreds more than my beautiful chrome chassis McIntosh 2155. Not to say I won't be keeping my eyes open for a couple of key Mac pieces over the next 40.




To frame it another way, I wonder how strong the Beanie Baby market is these days...?

Thats what I thought but looking at the past sold auctions on eBay, the craze has gone underground.

[SEAWOLF97]

all things old seem to have some amount of cache lately, warranted or not.
Not just speakers, either.

:crying:

I can't agree with that if taken even as a semi-blanket statement.

Old JBL Radiances will NEVER have much value. The plastic crap Harmin is pushing will never have value. Ever.

The country of origin seems to play a big part in the value.

I've been dabbling in old books. Old sometimes just means old.

[BMWCCA]

Exactly this. I've seen this same cycle in the car world. It was tri-5 Chevys that you couldn't touch for under 20 grand for absolute junk back in the 90s, then it was muscle cars in the 2000s, now it's starting to switch to some import models (like the recent legal importation of Skylines from Japan now that they're 25 years old) and then straight to the brand new stuff because it's all making horsepower that we couldn't dream of 20 years ago so if that's your goal you'd be a fool not to do it.
An interesting observation, to be sure, but "true" classics continue to soar in value without regard for what generation is bidding. Conceived as the "cheapest" version of their product line intended for sale in the USA, the Porsche Speedster reaches new highs in value every year. Same is true of exotic Italian cars. When I bought my first BMW in 1971 I thought I'd never be able to afford something as lovely as the Dino in the showroom listed at $12,995. Don't look now but the car never intended to carry the "Ferrari" name with only a 6-cylinder engine consistently reaches transaction prices which speak to its timeless beauty. I don't doubt I'll see Dinos trading at $1M in my lifetime.

The Speedster is as old as the Chevy generation you site, and the rarest BMWs from that decade are already bringing over $1M. These are not an anomaly but are based on scarcity, appeal, and, yes, nostalgia. But don't forget the real culprit in escalating values . . . inflation. Remember the Dow Jones Industrial Average in 1955 was less than $500.

[santashooter]

I think it has a lot to do with "what was".
For me personally, I am fairly young and has been collecting and refurbishing vintage-hifi for the past 10 years. (since I was 18). I've never seen or coveted JBL 43 speakers or big Marantz amplifiers in their prime-time, but I do now.

The main reason for me is a point of quality - not that there isn't produced quality equipment now, and that there wasn't produced CR*P back then, but for most of the JBL speakers I own, it seems the people building these were proud of what they were doing, and the same goes for the Marantz amps I have. And they were bought - because it wasn't common to spend money on Computers, mobilephones, tablets, consoles - people bought a decent stereo.

Today a small bluetooth speaker, is the standard, and even buying something from a hifi-shop makes you an enthusiast.:blink:

For me there is a "golden" period between 1960 to roughly 1978-79, before everything was exported and production started a budget-race.

think about the monster-receiver war? - would any of the producers of gear today compete towards a high-end receiver? Or would they compete in the budget range instead? - I think the latter...

Last but not least, I need to mention, I am aware that I am romanticising about a past I didn't experience, and I propably put more "soul" into the objects from back then, than I should, but somehow they seem to have some "Mojo" or something I can't quite put my fingers on, that makes them much more interesting to me than newer equipment...

[SEAWOLF97]

one factor in favor of buying vintage that may be overlooked is that the gear has been "out in the wild" for some time , the community has experience/opinions on it and it has gained reputations (good or bad) and may help a buyer to find what he is looking for. Most of us have heard L-100's and can comment on them.

of course that's the job of the pro reviewers, but their reps are usually poor (see stereophool mag) and they seem in love with with mega-buck items, not what most of us purchase.

ask me about the latest harmin p-o-c , and I'll just shrug.

perceived build quality also plays a big part. And then there appears to be a backlash about spending good money on anything from Ch1na (and then it's quality/durability rep)

It may be easier than buying the latest thing where there is no "track record" established yet. :dont-know:



Today a small bluetooth speaker, is the standard, and even buying something from a hifi-shop makes you an enthusiast.:blink:.

around here, any gear with a wood case (or even some wood grained vinyl) is considered "high end" & "audiophile" :(

[speakerdave]

Interesting confab, but the eBay sale cited in the first post indicates, more than anything else, that listing an item on eBay is free until it sells and takes less effort than thumbtacking a 3x5 card on a laundromat cork board did a few decades ago.

Anyone can ask any price for anything.

Some will remember that before the present eBay era advertising something for sale cost money up front, and in a real newspaper with wide circulation it cost plenty: things were priced realistically. When I'm buying, I get a nostalgia rush for that.

On Sunday I bid in two auctions for photo gear. Both auctions were active. The final price was about half of the usual fixed price ask for those two items.

[SEAWOLF97]

I found this quote among my saved emails. do not know the source.

"...To ask that question in those terms is to misunderstand what is going on. Brushcutters are not used instead of scythes because they are better, they are used because their use is conditioned by our attitudes to technology. Performance is not really the point, and neither is efficiency. Religion is the point; the religion of complexity. The myth of progress manifested in tool form. Plastic is better than wood. Moving parts are better than fixed parts. Noisy things are better than quiet things. Complicated things are better than simple things. New things are better than old things. We all believe this, whether we like it or not. It’s how we were brought up."

[toddalin]

Junk has always been junk and will always be junk regardless of age.

[Mr. Widget]

Junk has always been junk and will always be junk regardless of age.
I’m not sure I can go with that.

As an extreme example, I imagine a mint condition piece of “junk” from ancient Egypt would command a pretty high price. I know I’d probably want it. But then according to most of my friends my house is full of junk. :banghead:



Widget

[DES-1]

I found this quote among my saved emails. do not know the source.

"...To ask that question in those terms is to misunderstand what is going on. Brushcutters are not used instead of scythes because they are better, they are used because their use is conditioned by our attitudes to technology. Performance is not really the point, and neither is efficiency. Religion is the point; the religion of complexity. The myth of progress manifested in tool form. Plastic is better than wood. Moving parts are better than fixed parts. Noisy things are better than quiet things. Complicated things are better than simple things. New things are better than old things. We all believe this, whether we like it or not. It’s how we were brought up."


This email would have been better deleted than quoted!

[SEAWOLF97]

This email would have been better deleted than quoted!

and what do you disagree with ?

[DES-1]

"We all believe this, whether we like it or not. It’s how we were brought up."

Maybe my memory is failing but I don't recall being indoctrinated with this. "Better, faster, cheaper" - that one we covered that in a few classes.