Help me fill a pair of empty 4315B Cabinets

[bjoneson]

First a little background. I'm prepping to build out a residential studio next year. I've got something of a mid-late 70s thing going, having already restored an Auditronics Console and Scully Tape Machine from that era. After a lot of consideration, I'd like to use something in the vein of vintage JBL for the main monitors in the control room. They would be soffit mounted, and I've been eyeing the 4315s as a set of decent sized, but sill somewhat humble set of monitors (which fits my overall aesthetic).

Long story short, I found a pair of empty 4315B cabinets (with crossovers) I'm considering picking up. It's my understanding that the drivers in these things are basically unobtainium. The original drivers would have been 2203H (12"), 2108H (8"), 2105H (5"), and 2405. Crossover was a 3114A.

It's my understanding that the woofer enclosure is 91L (3.2 ft^3), ported, tuned to 60Hz. The mid range and high drivers are in separate, smaller sealed enclosures.

I'm an avid DIY-er, but I'm no speaker expert. I suppose my bottom line question is this:

Is there some combination of relatively available drivers that would make sense and perform well in this cabinet configuration, or am I on a fools errand here?

Appreciate any help / insights!

Many thanks,

Bob

[speakerdave]

Not a fool's errand; it's a special little four-way which I have only heard once but liked--for a party speaker. I have not seen a good pair of 2203's come up for sale for ages, but the 2108 pops up now and then.

The short answer to your question is, no, there are no substitutes for the 2108 and 2203 that would give you the same impact. And why bother with an approximation? The readily available upper drivers are the least successful part of the design.

But you could: If you find some 2108's, a pair of Le14-1's or -3's might well replace the 2203's, and in fact would give you deeper bass though not the same punch, I believe. You would need to build different cabinets for the sake of a larger baffle and a scosh more room for the woofer. The 3114A crossover would be nice to have for the upper two splits. I would biamp the woofer/ 2108 handoff.

[hjames]

Go for a different Monitor cabinet ...
Some would say a big 4 way of that era 4343 or 4345 ...
Some would say a "bookshelf" style monitor like a 4313B would be the perfect touch for the vintage studio ...
some would say get out of the 43xx era, and go to the newer 44xx
And some would say go to something more contemporary, since those old speaker are mostly pre-CD technology and out of date ...

What are YOU feeling comfortable with ...?
And not to be snarky, but how well heeled are you -
since studio gear tends to be on the pricey side anyway!


First a little background. I'm prepping to build out a residential studio next year. I've got something of a mid-late 70s thing going, having already restored an Auditronics Console and Scully Tape Machine from that era. After a lot of consideration, I'd like to use something in the vein of vintage JBL for the main monitors in the control room. They would be soffit mounted, and I've been eyeing the 4315s as a set of decent sized, but sill somewhat humble set of monitors (which fits my overall aesthetic).

Long story short, I found a pair of empty 4315B cabinets (with crossovers) I'm considering picking up. It's my understanding that the drivers in these things are basically unobtainium. The original drivers would have been 2203H (12"), 2108H (8"), 2105H (5"), and 2405. Crossover was a 3114A.

It's my understanding that the woofer enclosure is 91L (3.2 ft^3), ported, tuned to 60Hz. The mid range and high drivers are in separate, smaller sealed enclosures.

I'm an avid DIY-er, but I'm no speaker expert. I suppose my bottom line question is this:

Is there some combination of relatively available drivers that would make sense and perform well in this cabinet configuration, or am I on a fools errand here?

Appreciate any help / insights!

Many thanks,

Bob

[bldozier]

I myself couldn't axe perfect cabinets, its your money. Just plan for added expenses, and good luck.

[bjoneson]

Thanks for the info! I did a bit more reading and research tonight, and found an old transducer replacement chart where JBL lists the following as "equivalent" to the original drivers:

Low: 2203H -> 128H
Mid: 2108H -> 2118H
High: 2105H -> 104H
Ultra High: 2405 -> 2405H

All of those replacement drivers look relatively easy to aquire. Would there be any obvious issues with just using those JBL recommended replacements?

[speakerdave]

Thanks for the info! I did a bit more reading and research tonight, and found an old transducer replacement chart where JBL lists the following as "equivalent" to the original drivers:

Low: 2203H -> 128H
Mid: 2108H -> 2118H
High: 2105H -> 104H
Ultra High: 2405 -> 2405H

All of those replacement drivers look relatively easy to aquire. Would there be any obvious issues with just using those JBL recommended replacements?

Oh, do let us know how it sounds!

[Lee in Montreal]

Woofer : http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/woofers/nrx/12-sb34nrxl75-8/

And JBL 2118s are a dime a dozen on eBay.

[Flodstroem]

I have the 124H which is the consumer version of the 2203H in very good condition (refoamed jan. 2016, with Rick Cobbś foam surrounds) I also have the 112A and 2108A one of each.
I havnt made a decision for to sell the 8" midrange but the woofers are for sale (not listed anywhere yet)
However my location is Norway so there will be a relative high shipping cost :blink:
If this is of any interest, throw me a PM...........

Btw, I also have the 2405 slot in a new condition (new JBL original dias) :D

[Flodstroem]

Regarding swapping the 2108 to 2118, check the T/S parameters for those drivers A huge difference I think it is :(

[BMWCCA]

Thanks for the info! I did a bit more reading and research tonight, and found an old transducer replacement chart where JBL lists the following as "equivalent" to the original drivers:

Low: 2203H -> 128H
I think that should probably be the 128H-1.

[bjoneson]

I think that should probably be the 128H-1.

Isn't the only difference between them the color of the cone, or is that incorrect? (128H vs. 128H-1?

[BMWCCA]

Isn't the only difference between them the color of the cone, or is that incorrect? (128H vs. 128H-1?Yeah, but the -1 will likely be easier to find and newer and cheaper than the white cones. And it's the one the substitution chart calls for!

[bldozier]

Never thought about the ceramic version over the alinco, where is this comparison chart.
Fs qms qts qes vaf eff pe xmax re le. sd bl. Mms flux
2108 40 0.17 4.5 0.18 36.8 1.2 75 1.52 5.8 0.5 0.018 13 20 1.02
2118H 85 0.35 2.4 0.4 14.2 2.1 100 3.05 5.5 0.6 0.021 11 17 1.05

[BMWCCA]

Never thought about the ceramic version over the alinco, where is this comparison chart.Is this what you're looking for?
http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Transducer%20Replacement%20List/Transducer%20Replacement%20List.pdf

[bjoneson]

Woofer : http://www.sbacoustics.com/index.php/products/woofers/nrx/12-sb34nrxl75-8/

And JBL 2118s are a dime a dozen on eBay.

Out of curiosity, what caused you to recommend that driver?

Many thanks,

Bob

[Lee in Montreal]

Out of curiosity, what caused you to recommend that driver?

Many thanks,

Bob

Compare the T/S specs

[bjoneson]

Compare the T/S specs

Ah.... yes, I see now. Thanks for the lead!

[bldozier]

Out of curiosity, what caused you to recommend that driver?

Many thanks,

Bob

Audience maybe wider

[bjoneson]

Well, looks like this is happening. Going to pick up the cabinets Friday. He's going to include a pair of original 2105s, along with the crossovers, so that at least gets me started. Looks like the 2405s are relatively easy to find, so that gets me half way.

Unfortunately, he sold off the 2203s and 2108s, so going to have to figure something else out. Right now I'm planning on using the 128H as a replacement for the low driver, as they're relatively easy to aquire, and 2118s for the mids unless I can find a better match to the original 2108s. I'm hoping none of this will require modification to the crossover.

Excited to get these things rolling!

[bjoneson]

Pulled the trigger on a pair of beat up 128H-1s on eBay. Going to attempt a recone on them with the aftermarket kit from simplyspeakers.

[Flodstroem]

Ah, so it was you who purchased that baskets. I too looked at them but couldnt decide if I should purchase them or not. Now they are gone. God luck with the cabinets. Looking forward to here about your restoration...... :)

[bjoneson]

Ah, so it was you who purchased that baskets. I too looked at them but couldnt decide if I should purchase them or not. Now they are gone. God luck with the cabinets. Looking forward to here about your restoration...... :)

Aww, now I feel bad. ;)

Got the kits ordered, hopefully will be able to give the re-coning a go next week. Will probably get some 2218s next. Looks like plenty are available.

I'm also keeping an eye out for a Crown dc300a to try driving them with.

[BMWCCA]

I'm also keeping an eye out for a Crown dc300a to try driving them with.I own several DC300A-II amps and would suggest you search for the PS-400 instead, if you can find one in the condition you want. Several nice updates compared to the DC300A-II. :dont-know:

[bjoneson]

I own several DC300A-II amps and would suggest you search for the PS-400 instead, if you can find one in the condition you want. Several nice updates compared to the DC300A-II. :dont-know:

Appreciate the tip. Will definitely take a look!

[bjoneson]

Considering options on the ultra high transducers. The last pair of 2405Hs just sold on eBay, which led me to find the Beyma CP21/F. Has anyone had any experience with these drivers? They look like a straight replacement for the 2405s, and the price is right.

[JeffW]

2405s show up all the time, the problem is what condition the diaphragms are in. A pair of diaphragms, even with the recent price reductions, will set you back dang near $400. (http://www.simplyspeakers.com/jbl-2405-replacement-speaker-diaphragm-d16r2405.html)

[bjoneson]

2405s show up all the time, the problem is what condition the diaphragms are in. A pair of diaphragms, even with the recent price reductions, will set you back dang near $400. (http://www.simplyspeakers.com/jbl-2405-replacement-speaker-diaphragm-d16r2405.html)

Thanks for the info. May be more reason to take a closer look at the Beymas. It does look like a baffle modification would be needed as the diameter is slightly larger.

Hmmm... will need to noodle on this one.

[Flodstroem]

Aww, now I feel bad. ;)

Got the kits ordered, hopefully will be able to give the re-coning a go next week. Will probably get some 2218s next. Looks like plenty are available.

I'm also keeping an eye out for a Crown dc300a to try driving them with.

Oh no problems, I couldnt decide if I wanted them.......... ;)

If you could, please post some pictures of the re-coning job. Interesting to see how an aftermarket kit looks like and fit to the 128 basket........ :D

[bjoneson]

Just picked up the cabinets. Was a 6 hour drive from Omaha to St. Louis, but think it ended up worthwhile.

He threw in a pair of 2118s, and a pair of 2105s. Which was awesome. So Cabinets, crossovers, 2118s, and 2105s for $400 and a day of driving. I feel pretty good about all that.

The 128Hs and new cone kits should be in Monday or Tuesday. Still mulling over the ultra high transducers, but think I'll have these up and running way sooner than I thought!

[bjoneson]

Pulled the trigger on a pair of original Alinco 2405s from a guy in Canada. Recone kits for the 128H-1s came in today. Working on cleaning up the frames. Should have all the drivers I need now. The 2105s have dust cap dents. Would really like to get those fixed up at some point.

[bjoneson]

75267

There's the cabinets. Foilcal on one needs attention.

[mech986]

You did well for $400 with the crossover, mids, and midbass drivers included, some have paid that much for just the crossovers. In the seller's pics, the alnico 2405's were still there, also, the seller seems to have some 2405 diaphragms for sale too. Did he have the grilles?

the 2118H (8 ohm) is fairly plentiful, especially out here in SoCal from an ebay seller named either tubejunkie or salesbaron so for anyone looking for those or other models, they can be a source. No affiliation, they just seem to clean out a lot of speakers.

[JeffW]

2405s show up all the time, the problem is what condition the diaphragms are in. A pair of diaphragms, even with the recent price reductions, will set you back dang near $400. (http://www.simplyspeakers.com/jbl-2405-replacement-speaker-diaphragm-d16r2405.html)

I was on a different site than I normally use, for some reason.

You can get them Here for $34/ea cheaper (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/jbl-2405-d16r2405-diaphragm/)

[Lee in Montreal]

I'd say that usually, a 2405 without original diaphragm is worthless. Even with Chinese diaphragms, they are only just as good as paperweights... :eek:

[bjoneson]

Recone of the 128H-1s is done, and I think I did alright. Tested them out on a signal generator. Just waiting on the 2405s to get here and I'll have all the drivers I need. The 2105s have dents in the dust caps which is bothering me. Not sure how easy it is to replace the dust caps.

75300

[JeffW]

I'd say that usually, a 2405 without original diaphragm is worthless. Even with Chinese diaphragms, they are only just as good as paperweights... :eek:

Yeah, most people don't want to spend what a pair of new diaphragms would cost on a complete pair of drivers. I recently sold a NIB pair of 2405Hs and the buyer had to think about it for a while - and I barely got more than what a pair of diaphragms was going for at that time - they've come down a good bit since then.

Then again, I would consider any used complete drivers as shells needing diaphragms, so there's just no easy answer it seems.

[mech986]

Do you still have the original neoprene foam front gaskets for the 128H-1's instead of the replacement cardboard interlocking units (they sit a bit tall too)? The OEM look would favor the original neoprene, or you can get replacement front gaskets from an Ebay seller. Sorry if I seem a bit OCD about it.

[bjoneson]

Do you still have the original neoprene foam front gaskets for the 128H-1's instead of the replacement cardboard interlocking units (they sit a bit tall too)? The OEM look would favor the original neoprene, or you can get replacement front gaskets from an Ebay seller. Sorry if I seem a bit OCD about it.

No, I don't. Theye were pretty trashed. I just rolled with what they sent me with the kit.