adding a subwoofer to a 2 channel system?

[husq2100]

Hey all,

Some more newb questions from me.

I have JBL S4600, mostly listen to 2 channel music. These will also become the fronts in a basic HT setup. Im considering adding a sub for both HT and music listening. SO, seperating the 2 for the moment, would adding a subwoofer to the S4600 give me any real listening benefit in 2 channel/music?

If so, what size and type (ive only been looking at the JBL pro and Sythesis models as far as size and design go) I have no idea about subs???

Is there a big difference in the type of sub used for music vs HT?

how do you drive the non powered subs ? are there specific amps?

my room is aprox 2500 cu ft with 2 x 42sp ft openings in 2 walls ( a bit open plan so to speak)

cheers
Serg

[Ed Zeppeli]

I think adding a sub will add to your music experience and will definitely add to the HT aspect. Musically, you'll have more headroom by alleviating low-end duties from your S4600 woofers. This benefit will mostly be realized if you like to listen at higher levels.

A fifteen or eighteen inch sub would probably complement your speakers nicely. Let us know which one you decide on and then we can recommend amplification. I've tried my DIY 2242 (18") sub with just a 120 watt amp and it still kicked butt.

Regards,

Warren

[husq2100]

thanks for your reply Ed.

Ive been doing a little reading, still no clue on the subject but have come to the following. Feel free to correct or offer different opinions:

perhaps easiest and maybe even best would be to buy one or more Array 1500. They are ready to go. Problem is a new one here would cost about as much as a car! (6k for the Array 880 center!) Finding any second hand would be ni impossible. That goes for pretty much any decent JBL sub.

That got me to thinking DIY? I can build the cabinets no problems. I can even make them match the S4600 :). I read a few of the threads on the s1s-ex and the 4645c (?) ANd while the majority of the data, and its meaning was over my head, I took away that:

they are both good subs, they both use the same driver 2422H, the 4645 is a structually better built cabinet, the s1s-ex is smaller cabinet and may be better suited to home use/size rooms?

I have no clue if one 18 would sound better than 1 or 2 15s? But 1 sub is better than none I guess lol. SO at this stage im thinking 1 18 sub, DIY

I also looked at the newer SUB 18 they match to the M2, but I think that driver a little out of my league, and no point really making/spending more on a sub than the S4600 are if that makes sense?

Back to electronics. I will need a amp to power the sub, and im guessing another "box" (not sure if you refer to it as external crossover or other") to send the correct signal to sub and others ? is that correct?

currently I run NAD M51 dac/pre into a NAD power amp. I have a basic NAD HT receiver for HT duties.

I appreciate any opinions and info here guys and girls

cheers
Serg

[Ed Zeppeli]

People around here rave about the 1500 but if it's out of your range I don't think you'll be unhappy with the 2242H box. I basically replicated the 4645C design and put some legs on it. see here...

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?35255-So-I-made-a-new-coffee-table-for-the-wife&p=374978&viewfull=1#post374978


If your NAD HT receiver has a sub out you could put that to use for crossover duties. Run the RCA out to a power amp and then to your sub!

Good luck,

Warren

[UreiCollector]

You're going to need some type of active crossover...the old Outlaw Audio ICBM would have been perfect...but they haven't been made for some time now. There may be something from Marchand Electronics that would fit the bill. Basically you'll need to strip off the low end from your main channels, sum the low pass section and drive an amplifier along with the sub you decide to go with.

[husq2100]

thanks Urei.

Some of the brands you guys are familiar with may not be available here in Australia, and we are 240v. Thats ok Im sure there will be many options, electroincs wise, and when I get a chance ill speak to my friend who use to be in Hi-fi. I just need to get my head around my requirements and what different options change different things

Still keen to hear others thoughts on sub choice

cheers
Serg

[husq2100]

still talking DIY, what are thoughts on the W1500h driver? would it be more "user friendly" in a ~ 2500cu ft room? Are they hard to come by? (my quick searching has found 2422H but not much else)

cheers
Serg

[husq2100]

maybe im not asking the right questions?

Since ive been talking DIY I have had a couple suggest a sealed enclosuer over ported. So that begs the question, whats the difference?

Take for example the 1500 Array and the synthesis S2S-ex. Both use the same W1500H LF driver. The 1500 Array is not much smaller volume at about 4.8 external, vs the S2S-ex at 5 external(though i guess the amp and cross over take up some volume in the Array?). Amp and crossover aside, what are the designers trying to achieve with each of these? IS the sealed Array better for music type listening, intended to back up the smaller 800 and 1000 Array's and also compliments the 1400 and ht? where as the S2S-ex is more specificly for HT and maybe slightly larger rooms?

cheers
Serg

[bubbleboy76]

1500 Array Sub is not sealed.

[husq2100]

1500 Array Sub is not sealed.


haha, well that was a massive fail on my part!

I had googled as much as I could, infact, I still can not find a single image of the rear of the 1500 Array.

Still, the question could have been answered.

[Lee in Montreal]

To answer simply your question about connecting subs to your system, it can be done two ways.

1- Get one (or two) active subwoofers. They have their own amplifier and crossover. Members can suggest brands and models

2- You can also go passive. Simply build your own cabinet and fit your own driver (perhaps a JBL W15GTI if you intend to use it also for HT). Feed the sub w/ a power amp with integral digital crossover (Crown XLS family?). Signal comes from your pre-amp.

[husq2100]

Thanks Lee,

I dont know what all the number stuff means (reading other threads) But Im getting that can be dialed in with the external crossover. Are the recommendations (with the likes of my S4600) to leave them doing full duties and the sub compliments them, or take some of the LF out of the mains and get the sub to do that?

What does porting do to the enclosuer soundwise? (louder, differnet Fq?)

Are drivers designed for a type of enclosuer ?(sealed or ported)

If a driver could be used in either, does the volume of enclosure change (ported vs sealed)

What adjustability do you have with the likes of a 1500 Array sub (regarding controllable settings on the back?)

cheers
Serg

[Lee in Montreal]

Hi Serge

The only question I can answer is about keeping (or not) the main speaker as full range while adding a sub. Answer is yes. Keep them full range and only use the sub(s) from 50Hz down. All you need is to add some physical presence. Some punch to the music. You don't want to sense where the sound comes from. If you are into HT, then you can even place the subs behind your couch for maximum sensation. Because basically, you don't want to hear the subs. You want to feel them.

If you only need more bass form your S4600, the just eq them. If you have a digital eq, it is a simple bandpass at around 65/70hz. try Q=1

I f you still have questions in regard of sealed vs reflex cabinets, then your answers are all over the internet. :D
"10 Best subs" is a good start
http://home-subwoofers-review.toptenreviews.com/

Also, a huge part of our "hobby" is experimentation. Then just try stuff and report. Some will work. Some won't.
I am partial to JBL's 18" 2245 in a big vented cabinet. Building two more this summer. ;-)

[Radley]

People have some good advice here. I wouldn't get too caught up in subwoofer design or woofer size. You'll find many manufacturers have subs with all different kinds of design even from the same company. It's about your ears, what kind of music you listen to and of course, aesthetics.

I have run both single and dual subs and there wasn't a huge difference. My left & right mains don't need any low frequency extension so I listen to music with the sub(s) off. I find the overlap in the LF too tubby when the sub is on. However, 5:1 movies and the better tv shows really do shine with subwoofers. I've found there's some "film" composers who add extra note(s) that only comes out of having a sub. The guy who wrote for the tv show "24" was brilliant at that.

I would suggest if you borrow or audition some gear so you get an idea of what you like and which way to go. What I like might not be what you like.

[Ed Kreamer]

Question: Lee are you suggesting that the W15GTI, in the right box, is not good for music? If so why not? It looks like a pretty good VLF to me.

Ed

[Lee in Montreal]

Question: Lee are you suggesting that the W15GTI, in the right box, is not good for music? If so why not? It looks like a pretty good VLF to me.

Ed

Hey Ed

The W15GTI driver is indeed superb for VLF. No wonder it has been a favourite in car audio for a decade. For home duty (music and HT), as long as it is only used for the two bottom octaves, then it will shine. Just don't expect any decent midrange. The cone is so heavy you will get more mud than notes... ;-)

Lee

[Ed Kreamer]

Thank you Lee. I've been considering using 2 of them in the future and driving my Wife insane. My front speakers are 4410's and I run them as full range, or 40Hz switching over now and again. I currently use 2 ancient altec 411's for VLF duty.

[Lee in Montreal]

Several members here use some W15GTi at home for HT and music.