D.C. Metro area meet up. [Archive] - Lansing Heritage Forums

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rusty jefferson

12-05-2015, 05:36 PM

I was able to host a small listening session for a few members of LH today, and (I think) a good time was had by all. It was nice to meet some new people with whom we have a common interest. Apologies for not putting out a general call on the forum, but my room is really only big enough to fit 4-6 people comfortably. If other members in the area are interested in visiting sometime, send me a pm and we'll work something out as our schedules permit. I invited 6 members I knew, or knew of in the area, but only 3 were available today to visit. We had a little food and drink, listened to some great music, and ran 1 interesting experiment.

My system uses a pair of UREI 813C monitors and a pair of 2245h subs in 8 cubic foot cabinets. I know there's not as much love for the UREIs as there is for the 43xx large format monitors, but to my ears this combo performs better than the 43xxs. Please don't misinterpret that statement. I'm not saying they are better, just to my ears preferred. :) Ugly I know, but I can live with ugly.

I'd like to thank the folks who started and maintain this forum. It's been a great resource for information, and now that I have a system up and running, I'm making friends with it's members. A special shout-out for OLDMICS is in order. His help was indispensable from helping me store (okay, hide) the UREIs from my better half for a couple years, to performing beautiful recone work on my drivers, to helping rebuild and measure the crossovers, to wading in deep to help answer questions. I sincerely appreciate all the help and advise he supplied. If you live in the Balto/DC metro area and need JBL help, you should know him.

Hope to see/meet some more of you in the future.

hjames

12-05-2015, 08:38 PM

Thanks again for opening your home to us, for the audio fun and the awesome demo of wires and sound.
Great time, fantastic sounding pair of speakers, and you renewed my enthusiasm for big UREIs all over again!
The pure dynamics were fantastic, and the level of sound with low power and high efficiency monitors - amazing!

Its late and I have an early morning - but I wanted to thank you before I headed to bed!

Take care!

BMWCCA

12-05-2015, 10:44 PM

Sorry I missed it!
We should all live long enough for me to not have to work on a Saturday, again!

svollmer

12-06-2015, 06:33 AM

Jim's system was simply fantastic. The Urei's were very clean, punchy, and had a beautiful extended range with none of the honkiness one sometimes hears from horn drivers. The soundstage had great depth and his custom-built 2245H subs blended very well and went infrasonic when required by the program material.

The fun experiment he refers to was the classic cable swap. I'm not big on cables, but I do like quality built stuff (mechanically strong) and use some nice, but not expensive, cables. I've never heard differences in cables, but I've not done many comparisons either thinking that mine were good enough.

Jim uses Mapleshade interconnects and speaker wires. They look very flimsy, even somewhat cheap to my eye. He swapped them out for some Esoteric brand and some 14 gauge zip cord wires for the speakers and subs and some studio-quality Mogami interconnects. I was expecting (and afraid for Jim) that I would hear no difference.

It it only took the first few notes of the music for all of us to hear a dramatic, and I mean DRAMATIC, difference. The soundstage collapsed. The high frequency extension disappeared. The music sounded compressed with limited dynamics, and it sounded like blankets had been placed over the speakers.

It it was simply amazing to all of us. The Mapleshade stuff isn't ridiculously expensive like many other cables, but wow what a difference we heard. I will be doing some more research on them and hope to try a set after the holidays. They have a 30 day money-back guarantee. Note: I have no affiliation with Mapleshade, Jim, or any other audio manufacturer or reseller.

So, all in all, it was a great day and I'm glad we were invited over. Those big Urei's and the rest of his system was really wonderful.

hjames

12-06-2015, 05:11 PM

I should specify - I heard Jim's system about a year ago and it was the impetus that got me started on my whole UREI kick.
Sadly, I only have the small 809A coax system - 2 pair for my home theater room.
Jim's 813C (dual 15 gear with 15 coax and JBL 15 "helper" in the cabinet) and the 18" sub is amazing
and has a sound I can only describe as superb ... and desirable!

sauri55

12-06-2015, 06:33 PM

I was at Jim's yesterday with Heather and Steve and his system is pretty amazing. It really made the music come alive! I have heard Heather's Urei's and they are great as well. The 18" subs completely fill the space. I was also surprised as to how much the system changed when we went from the maple shade cables, ic's, speaker and coax to the otHer cables, it was if someone had put a blanket over the speakers to tame the high frequencies.

jim, thanks again for being a gracious host and for the great music and sounds!

wilfredo

I should specify - I heard Jim's system about a year ago and it was the impetus that got me started on my whole UREI kick.
Sadly, I only have the small 809A coax system - 2 pair for my home theater room.
Jim's 813C (dual 15 gear with 15 coax and JBL 15 "helper" in the cabinet) and the 18" sub is amazing
and has a sound I can only describe as superb ... and desirable!

hjames

12-07-2015, 04:17 AM

Note that I am NOT SELLING ANYTHING - I have no $$ in this game.

Honest, I used to be one of the worst critics of the magic wire crowd -
but I cannot deny it was a HUGE AUDIBLE difference when Rusty swapped out the wires in his system.
I heard a significant change - and that's always my personal bottom line for auditioning gear.

The speaker wire test involved a comparison between mogami (?) audiophile cables
And the mapleshade audio cables and foil/ribbon interconnects

He A/Bed a couple tracks - one of which was "Diamonds on the soles of her shoes" from the
Japanese remastered CD (mini-LP form) of Graceland which is a gorgeously lush recording -
and frankly - it lost all the charm and depth on the Mogami wires.

Rusty demoed Mapleshade Audio Speaker wires and Interconnects. I'm still considering the funny looking interconnects -
But the Mapleshade speaker wires appeared to be twisted pair enamelled magnet wire, which, if memory serves,
was a big recommendation of Scott Fitlin.

So I ordered a 100 foot spool of 18 gauge magnet wire from Amazon last night, so I'll make up a pair of them and I'll try it myself.
http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0183EL7FQ

rusty jefferson

12-07-2015, 09:36 PM

Thanks very much for the kind words about our system! I appreciate it very much. Honestly, it's worked out better than I thought it would when I started on the project.

I do know much of the performance is being delivered by the cabling from Omega Mikro/Mapleshade. I also know whether cabling can make an audible difference is an often argued topic. The folks who visited Saturday were all indifferent about cables effecting performance. Just for the record, I don't receive anything for mentioning my preference for this particular (or any) brand of cables. I've simply found that in my systems, and for my listening preferences, they improve performance dramatically, at not an unreasonable amount of money compared to other audiophile cables. Considering many here spend hundreds, or thousands of dollars for other parts of the audio chain like amplifiers, beryllium diaphragms, or expensive crossover capacitors, they seem downright reasonable.

Before everyone arrived, I installed my least expensive amplifier, a $300 Parasound bipolar output Z Amp. Part of what I wanted to demonstrate was what really (or also) matters in the audio chain. We listened to music for a couple hours with it and the OM/Mapleshade wires. Everyone gave their impressions of the performance. When we changed the wires to ("normal quality") Mogami ICs and stranded (zipcord type) speaker, performance fell off a cliff. It would be easily repeatable, blind or double blind. When Heather asked how much I had tied up in cables, I told her about $1k. That's a lot of money, I know. But I asked if anyone there thought if I installed a $5k Pass amp (or any brand) or spent $3k more on a DAC, would the quality come back to where it was. No one believed it would possibly have as much effect as the wires made. It was that dramatic. I'll be happy to demonstrate it for others.

Sorry I missed it!
We should all live long enough for me to not have to work on a Saturday, again!

Sorry you couldn't make it this time. Let me know when you can get over this way and I'll be happy to demo it for you. I have a lot of flexibility with my schedule in the winter months, including weekdays.

Here's an image of the system:

68614

Mr. Widget

12-08-2015, 09:38 AM

Very cool system... I would love to hear it!

On another thread, Rusty said he didn't want to say that the Ureis were better than 43XXs. Better is subjective, but I do remember back in the day hearing both contenders in direct comparisons and the Ureis had my vote, and it would seem they received Harman's vote too as they bought the company. :D

I'm going to dive into the cable discussion... while OT from the initial post, I think the point of the original post has been covered and this is an extension of the thread. We could spin it off into it's own thread, but I for one don't see the need. If there is a call for that let me know and I can extract some posts and create a new thread.

I know digital vs. analog, tube vs. solid state, and cables can all be contentious topics. My hope is that this time it won't be.

Widget

Mr. Widget

12-08-2015, 09:43 AM

While I have heard "differences" in cables, I have remained a cable skeptic. I don't disagree that in some cases there can be synergistic relationships between certain components and certain cables, but if the cables are anything other than textbook, there is an equal likelihood of the cable doing harm so experimenting with cables can be a perilous journey.

With that in mind, many years ago Rusty sent me a couple of sets of his gossamer MapleShade unbalanced interconnects. I'm not sure how long he had been using them at the time, but he was certain that they were a superior sounding cable and he generously offered to let me try them out. When the box arrived and I opened it I found very carefully packaged and very fragile looking (unique and odd also come to mind) cables that I expected to go one way or the other as they were far from being a traditional design.

At this point I do not remember what components were in my system or even what speakers I was using at the time, but I inserted his cables into my system and was shocked to hear no difference at all. It is possible that my system wasn't resolving enough or my bias too strong, but these were rather odd cables and I wouldn't have been surprised if they sounded "different"... but during the few hours of comparisons I made in that system at that time, I heard no change over what ever I was using then.

As far as incredible improvements to systems with very subtle and likely unmeasurable changes, over the years I have experienced this quite a lot in group and demo settings. One theory I have is that if the presenter really believes in his product or the tweak it can affect the listening experience of the group. I've seen this phenomenon at CES and at friend's homes and it can be quite compelling. Last year there was a fellow transmitting low level RF in his CES room claiming that it recreated the "quiet" of late night listening. Really? There was no way that there was a measureable change to the system when he turned on or off the RF source, yet there did seem to be differences.

Alternatively, maybe Rusty is on to something and his collection of cables is the ticket. I really can't say, but it is certainly a very interesting topic to me.

Because these cables are so odd, I thought I'd post a pic.

Widget
.

hjames

12-08-2015, 11:00 AM

Yep - they are fragile and funny looking, that's for sure. They make me think of unwound capacitors.
But they offer 30 day money back guarantee, which is some comfort for $135 interconnects (!).
I've been using some nice quality RCA cables I got from Seawolf97 a few years back. He got a closeout deal somewhere
and kindly offered them to us at a very greatly reduced price, and I happily bought a few pairs. They've worked very well.

So, when the Mapleshade pair arrives, I plan to drop them in place between my Audio Alchemy DDE3 DAC and the preamp stage of the Jolda and see if I can capture a bit of the magic we heard Saturday. I ordered a raw spool of Magnet wire that should arrive early next week & I'll make a pair of speaker wires for testing to see if that works any magic either alone or in tandem with the Mapleshade wires.

Either way - I'll let you know what I hear.

(They arrived at 5PM today)

68624

While I have heard "differences" in cables, I have remained a cable skeptic. I don't disagree that in some cases there can be synergistic relationships between certain components and certain cables, but if the cables are anything other than textbook, there is an equal likelihood of the cable doing harm so experimenting with cables can be a perilous journey.

With that in mind, many years ago Rusty sent me a couple of sets of his gossamer MapleShade unbalanced interconnects. I'm not sure how long he had been using them at the time, but he was certain that they were a superior sounding cable and he generously offered to let me try them out. When the box arrived and I opened it I found very carefully packaged and very fragile looking (unique and odd also come to mind) cables that I expected to go one way or the other as they were far from being a traditional design.

At this point I do not remember what components were in my system or even what speakers I was using at the time, but I inserted his cables into my system and was shocked to hear no difference at all. It is possible that my system wasn't resolving enough or my bias too strong, but these were rather odd cables and I wouldn't have been surprised if they sounded "different"... but during the few hours of comparisons I made in that system at that time, I heard no change over what ever I was using then.

As far as incredible improvements to systems with very subtle and likely unmeasurable changes, over the years I have experienced this quite a lot in group and demo settings. One theory I have is that if the presenter really believes in his product or the tweak it can affect the listening experience of the group. I've seen this phenomenon at CES and at friend's homes and it can be quite compelling. Last year there was a fellow transmitting low level RF in his CES room claiming that it recreated the "quiet" of late night listening. Really? There was no way that there was a measureable change to the system when he turned on or off the RF source, yet there did seem to be differences.

Alternatively, maybe Rusty is on to something and his collection of cables is the ticket. I really can't say, but it is certainly a very interesting topic to me.

Because these cables are so odd, I thought I'd post a pic.

Widget
.

Alobar

12-08-2015, 02:15 PM

rusty jefferson

12-08-2015, 04:08 PM

Very cool system... I would love to hear it!
Widget

Thanks! Next time you're in DC, let me know.

...I'm going to dive into the cable discussion... while OT from the initial post, I think the point of the original post has been covered and this is an extension of the thread. We could spin it off into it's own thread, but I for one don't see the need. If there is a call for that let me know and I can extract some posts and create a new thread.

I know digital vs. analog, tube vs. solid state, and cables can all be contentious topics. My hope is that this time it won't be.

Widget

I'm fine with continuing the cable discussion in this thread as it's such an important part of the system. I just don't want it to devolve into an argument.

I haven't had a serious system in my home for many years as we were doing a diy house renovation that took all my spare time. I mention this because I haven't done the OM/Mapleshade cable "switch" in my own system since roughly the time I sent you those cables to demo. I demoed them in my previous sytem and at a friend's home, and had similar results to what we experienced Sat. Clear and obvious change, he and I both felt was an improvement. I was very surprised you heard no difference in your system when you installed the whole set. I do feel it's important to change all cables to a given brand, and not just insert them Willie-Nillie. If there's a bottleneck in the system, opening valves upstream does no good. If we had time, we could have slowly replaced each cable, one at a time and listened. Inserted the next cable, and listened. I have yet to ever do this. It could be most of the improvement is coming from a particular piece, I don't know.

On Sunday, I had a couple people from our local DIY audio club come over to check out the sound, and then reinserted the OM/Maple cables. Most of them being engineers and component designers/builders, there was some nervous surprise at the extent of the difference. Anyway, a date was established after the holidays for inserting a differential amplifier and bringing over test equipment to measure both sets of wire to see if there is a measurable difference.

Aculous

02-18-2016, 02:54 PM

So I am in the DMV area, talked to Rusty and Tom already but I was wondering if anyone was planning another meet-up anytime soon? Would love to get to talk to some of you face to face, I would love to heard some speakers and do some listening or just grab a beer or something.

I'd be more then happy to help or do the logistics if need be. Anyway let me know who all would be interested I am going to be in town for the next couple of months instead of on travel like I thought so I am trying to squeeze in some stuff before the gapping maw that is work overcomes me again!

Oh and I'm Ed by the way, and I hail from Fredericksburg, VA.

rusty jefferson

02-18-2016, 07:36 PM

Hey Ed,

I'm available Saturday (2/20/16) if you'd like to make the trip over. There is also a scheduled meet up here Wednesday (2/24/16) assuming there's not a snow storm, if you'd like to make that. Anybody else in the area who'd like to meet up, send me a pm. If those dates don't work, let me know what's good for you.

svollmer

02-19-2016, 06:47 AM

Aculous

02-19-2016, 08:05 AM

SEAWOLF97

02-19-2016, 10:59 AM

svollmer

02-19-2016, 11:50 AM

with all these endorsements of Mapleshade cables, how many people actually switched over to them ?

someone had purchased magnet wires to make clones .. how did that work out ?

Personally, I read Pierre's "everything sounds better on top of a piece of maple" statements and cringe. That rather poisons the rest of his comments TO ME. :blink:

I made all of my racks and platforms out of 1.5" thick maple because it's strong and I like the look. Sound different? I don't know. I lifted my CD player off of the rack while it was playing and it didn't sound different to me on the maple or up in the air. It probably wouldn't on the carpeted floor either. Maybe it would if it was on a springy floor and I was playing music real loud? :dont-know:

hjames

02-19-2016, 12:44 PM

Hiya guys! I'm one of the Fairfax folk - closest to svollmer and Opimax!

With Emma's new schedule its hard to find a good weekend to host a meet-up ...
She's usually writing on a Saturday - so I can get away for a listening party elsewhere then, but Sundays are out for quite a while ...
besides - my gear is pretty settled out right now.

Hi Ed,

There are a few of us in the Fairfax area and there's Phil in the Richmond area. I know I'm busy the next few weekends, but will keep watching to see if something is worked out and if I can make it.

I'm happy to host also once it gets warmer. My room is windowless and it's nice to be able to go outside for breaks, cold ones, and talk.

If there are others in the DC/Md/NoVa area; chime in!

Steve

rusty jefferson

02-19-2016, 06:29 PM

with all these endorsements of Mapleshade cables, how many people actually switched over to them ?

someone had purchased magnet wires to make clones .. how did that work out ?

I have 2 audio interested friends (not members here) who heard the cable switch here. They each then borrowed my wires and demoed them in their systems, and they both switched to the Omega Mikro/Mapleshade wire. One of them replaced standard ICs and zip cord wires. The other replaced Groneberg "audiophile" wire, and ended up a couple hundred dollars ahead after selling it.

Of the 4 Lansing members to visit so far, I think just Heather has purchased the wires to try in her system. I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I believe she and her partner felt there was a reasonable improvement in performance, but ultimately they were concerned with how fragile the wire and connectors are, and returned them. Same, I believe with the magnet wire (not what Mapleshade uses) also. The solid core wire and thin insulation can easily be damaged and is quite unruly.

I think Wilfredo was concerned about the wire fragility from the get-go and purchased (I believe) a set of Anticables. They are philosophically similar to OM/Mapleshade in that they use thin dielectrics and solid core wire. Last we spoke about it, he was happy with the improvement.

Steve and Tom have not mentioned experimenting with it.

......Personally, I read Pierre's "everything sounds better on top of a piece of maple" statements and cringe. That rather poisons the rest of his comments TO ME. :blink:

I know the OM/Mapleshade philosophy is unusual. I've come to look at it analogous to religion. Some folks buy in a little, some buy in a lot. You get out of it what works for you. This concept of "vibration reduction" has nothing to do with isolating gear from room vibrations (footfalls, or woofers), it's about "draining" electromechanical energy out of electronics, and motional energy out of speakers, by "coupling" it to a substrate. Some say wood is best, others say Delrin or some other material.

I've noticed recently that members here, including Greg Timbers, are promoting the importance of "coupling" speakers via "footers" to the floor to obtain the best performance. Just a few years ago, few if anyone here would have bought into this. Mapleshade has been promoting this for 20+ years.

I have met both Pierre Sprey and Ron Bauman, and have recently had the opportunity to visit their demo system. If you read their sales materials or speak with them on the phone, you'll see their emphasis/goal is to recreate a musical performance recorded in a live acoustic space. In my opinion, they've succeeded in that goal better than any system I've heard. That doesn't mean it's the best system I've heard, for my taste. It has limitations as do all systems, but it is spectacular at putting you "there" at the live event like nothing else I've heard. It's experiential. I have to conclude their wire, and coupling techniques have something to do with it, or all systems would create a similar experience.

hjames

02-21-2016, 03:19 PM

I made twisted pair magnet wires from scratch, and while there was a change in sound, Emma (who has better ears that I do) felt it wasn't a positive change - she says there was almost a resonance or something there. I thought they seemed "dry" somehow, not necessarily bad, just a change - but since I was nervous about the fragility of single strand wire, I wound up removing them and going back to large gauge stranded copper dual speaker wires (not a name brand).

The Mapleshade ribbon type audio interconnect wires did have a positive sound improvement- but the wires are expensive and I felt the wires were fragile.
Since they were on my tube system that sits on top of a shelf, and the whole minirack moves when I swap a component,
I could see a possible chance where the ribbon cables might snag something and pull apart - and I didn't want to gamble on that.
I had also bought a mapleshade digital ribbon for my Oppo to DAC coaxial path - that wire had mechanical issues and seemed intermittent (The RCA end was an overly tight fit to the coaxial RCA connector on the Oppo disc player). So although the mapleshade ribbon interconnect pair worked well, due to the high price of the 3 cables, I sent them all back for the refund.

After Wilfredo and his wife's positive comments, I also bought a pair of anticable interconnects and they are in the system now.
The mapleshade wires had a 30 day money back guarantee, but since time was closing in, I sent them back quickly without a thorough A/B test.

If that gear had been out in the middle of the room, or on a lower shelf/rack with easy access to the back and the connectors,
perhaps I would have kept them, but I did not want to gamble on pulling apart any or all of 3 wires that cost roughly $230.
But - the ribbon audio interconnects DID sound better than the standard conventional interconnects I was using before.

I have 2 audio interested friends (not members here) who heard the cable switch here. They each then borrowed my wires and demoed them in their systems, and they both switched to the Omega Mikro/Mapleshade wire. One of them replaced standard ICs and zip cord wires. The other replaced Groneberg "audiophile" wire, and ended up a couple hundred dollars ahead after selling it.

Of the 4 Lansing members to visit so far, I think just Heather has purchased the wires to try in her system. I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I believe she and her partner felt there was a reasonable improvement in performance, but ultimately they were concerned with how fragile the wire and connectors are, and returned them. Same, I believe with the magnet wire (not what Mapleshade uses) also. The solid core wire and thin insulation can easily be damaged and is quite unruly.

I think Wilfredo was concerned about the wire fragility from the get-go and purchased (I believe) a set of Anticables. They are philosophically similar to OM/Mapleshade in that they use thin dielectrics and solid core wire. Last we spoke about it, he was happy with the improvement.

Steve and Tom have not mentioned experimenting with it.

I know the OM/Mapleshade philosophy is unusual. I've come to look at it analogous to religion. Some folks buy in a little, some buy in a lot. You get out of it what works for you. This concept of "vibration reduction" has nothing to do with isolating gear from room vibrations (footfalls, or woofers), it's about "draining" electromechanical energy out of electronics, and motional energy out of speakers, by "coupling" it to a substrate. Some say wood is best, others say Delrin or some other material.

I've noticed recently that members here, including Greg Timbers, are promoting the importance of "coupling" speakers via "footers" to the floor to obtain the best performance. Just a few years ago, few if anyone here would have bought into this. Mapleshade has been promoting this for 20+ years.

I have met both Pierre Sprey and Ron Bauman, and have recently had the opportunity to visit their demo system. If you read their sales materials or speak with them on the phone, you'll see their emphasis/goal is to recreate a musical performance recorded in a live acoustic space. In my opinion, they've succeeded in that goal better than any system I've heard. That doesn't mean it's the best system I've heard, for my taste. It has limitations as do all systems, but it is spectacular at putting you "there" at the live event like nothing else I've heard. It's experiential. I have to conclude their wire, and coupling techniques have something to do with it, or all systems would create a similar experience.

NWCgrad

03-04-2016, 12:23 PM

Hi Ed,

There are a few of us in the Fairfax area and there's Phil in the Richmond area. I know I'm busy the next few weekends, but will keep watching to see if something is worked out and if I can make it.

I'm happy to host also once it gets warmer. My room is windowless and it's nice to be able to go outside for breaks, cold ones, and talk.

If there are others in the DC/Md/NoVa area; chime in!

Steve

I am in the DC Area, live in Frederick, MD and work in SE DC at the Naval Research Laboratory. My current setup is mostly DIY (4 Pi LCR with 2226H drivers and B&C DE250 CD; DIY Eminence 10" coaxial surrounds) with an Oppo 103 bluray, Marantz AV7702 AVP, and assorted Adcom, QSC, and Crown amplification.

Been a long term lurker, Zilch lured me in back a few years ago.

tjm001

03-04-2016, 07:30 PM

Even though I've PO'd a few old timers:)
Tom

Aculous

03-06-2016, 01:01 PM

I have 2 audio interested friends (not members here) who heard the cable switch here. They each then borrowed my wires and demoed them in their systems, and they both switched to the Omega Mikro/Mapleshade wire. One of them replaced standard ICs and zip cord wires. The other replaced Groneberg "audiophile" wire, and ended up a couple hundred dollars ahead after selling it.

Of the 4 Lansing members to visit so far, I think just Heather has purchased the wires to try in her system. I don't want to put words in her mouth, but I believe she and her partner felt there was a reasonable improvement in performance, but ultimately they were concerned with how fragile the wire and connectors are, and returned them. Same, I believe with the magnet wire (not what Mapleshade uses) also. The solid core wire and thin insulation can easily be damaged and is quite unruly.

I think Wilfredo was concerned about the wire fragility from the get-go and purchased (I believe) a set of Anticables. They are philosophically similar to OM/Mapleshade in that they use thin dielectrics and solid core wire. Last we spoke about it, he was happy with the improvement.

Steve and Tom have not mentioned experimenting with it.

I know the OM/Mapleshade philosophy is unusual. I've come to look at it analogous to religion. Some folks buy in a little, some buy in a lot. You get out of it what works for you. This concept of "vibration reduction" has nothing to do with isolating gear from room vibrations (footfalls, or woofers), it's about "draining" electromechanical energy out of electronics, and motional energy out of speakers, by "coupling" it to a substrate. Some say wood is best, others say Delrin or some other material.

I've noticed recently that members here, including Greg Timbers, are promoting the importance of "coupling" speakers via "footers" to the floor to obtain the best performance. Just a few years ago, few if anyone here would have bought into this. Mapleshade has been promoting this for 20+ years.

I have met both Pierre Sprey and Ron Bauman, and have recently had the opportunity to visit their demo system. If you read their sales materials or speak with them on the phone, you'll see their emphasis/goal is to recreate a musical performance recorded in a live acoustic space. In my opinion, they've succeeded in that goal better than any system I've heard. That doesn't mean it's the best system I've heard, for my taste. It has limitations as do all systems, but it is spectacular at putting you "there" at the live event like nothing else I've heard. It's experiential. I have to conclude their wire, and coupling techniques have something to do with it, or all systems would create a similar experience.

Finally got to hear a set of studio monitor JBLs! Jim was kind enough to give me a little listening session of his setup and he graciously dealt with some unusual picks in music :) Spent a couple of hours going through a couple of different types of music and sources.

I told him I would give some impressions of the UREI/831 and 2245 sub stage.

First Impression:
Wow, they definitely have a presence in the room. Sitting on what looked like hard maple standoffs and tilted slightly downward they (813s) are a beautiful piece of gear sitting there in the room on top of ported 2245 enclosures. A couple feet into the room they are probably better suited for a larger room and some distance but nevertheless a listen would inform that thought a bit and argue against that initial impression. (Of course "beauty" is in the eye of the beholder, to me engineering is beautiful, pipes/wiring exposed elegance is a good thing. The best thing about works of art like the pagani zonda is the engine bay and suspension)

Listening:
I usually like silk dome tweeters that don't add anything, well I have found compression drivers can do a better job than a silk dome with less distortion. This was immediately apparent when listening to the concentric horn. It has a very precise and almost laser sweet spot which I usually don't like but I found with these speakers the accuracy and transparency lets you forget about the sweet spot and just enjoy what you are listening to, its a fleeting. (since this was earlier this week I'll have to go off of memory for most of this overview) Initially I asked little about source as I saw the PS Audio DAC and Cary cd player. This became a interesting item of note later on.

1. First thing we listened to was a nice organ selection, I felt it before I heard it which was a nice start to the session. The bass notes and pedal tones start off and pressurize the room and then the nasal reeds came in later which struck me because reeds seem to be something hard to reproduce for most loudspeakers, very realistic and reminded me of listening to my father in a church with a real organ. The quality of the recording was not perfect and so some "artifacts" were noticeable but overall a very nice "story arch" or bell curve build in the piece stirred the senses, a very nice choice that highlighted some of the interesting things about this setup.

(sorry Jim I should have wrote this stuff down...)

The next couple pieces I noted a couple of intricacies of the system.

Female Vocals/Decay:
The female vocals on one of the pieces we listened to were delicate and in your face all at once which was strange and something that I have experienced in a couple of different horn based systems. I think it has something to do with their high sensitivities maybe? Not sure. At the same time the distraction at the louder passages gave way to the passage once they got quieter it was a really nice and controlled roll-off and the "decay" was magical. I am going to use the word decay a lot, these speakers don't have a echo or reverb quality its a decay the sound falls off quickly and controlled right after a passage which gives the passage or the song weight. Its something really nice that most speakers don't have, it allows whatever is being played to have a realistic quality that a driver or system that abruptly stops a cone movement may not have. Not sure, it was a really interesting thing that struck me in just about every track I listened to. Interesting I guess another word I could use I have heard more from a musicians point of view and that is "sustain" its something I have not looked at in other speaker systems but I have a feeling I will moving forward.

HF:
I felt like the horns were a little too forward, I think thats why I was more sensitive to louder passages then softer passages. Simply from a pragmatic standpoint they most likely arrived more quickly. Given about 6-8 feet more of space between the speaker and the listener I think that may have helped a bit. Also the horn is extremely noticeable apartment from the other components, (could be psychosomatic since its friggin BLUE! but still...) reason I mention this is because it did not blend as well as I would have liked with the midrange. But I think this also has to do with what Jim was poking and prodding me on to do which is "turn it up, you're not going to hurt them". :) Gotta love that, reference level I am going to call it things smoothed out a lot and the Highs melted away a bit, my guess is these things love power and at the lower levels I was trying to listen to them at it really is not natural for them and they cannot shine.

Midrange:
Here is where I am probably going to be the most critical, I believe midrange is extremely important and is where most of music resides. Now we listened to some really nice tracks on the PS Audio DAC that sound really clear but some of the "midbass" workout tracks that we listened to later on in the session lacked the punch I was expecting and some of the classic guitar and acoustic tracks that were played just lacked midbass entirely. I think with the somewhat in your face highs and luscious bottom end the midrange driver was left behind and the crossover may need to be tweaked to calm the horns and bring out the midrange a bit. I am not sure really what it was but on some tracks I didn't even notice the midrange drivers at all and melted nicely into the mix but most I noticed a definite lacking which I have experience in a multitude of other systems. This may be personal preference, it was something I was thinking about on my long ride home. Also it could be room dependent as well, but it colored the sound enough for me that some of the tracks I am used to listening to lacked some pretty prominent sections and sounded totally different. Which also highlighted the fact that I brought some source material with me that was mixed on bass heavy system I am guessing, the KRK RokIT crowd...So this factor also begs the question was it the midrange in these units truly or the source material? So I would have to listen a lot more and do some measurements to really get an idea of what is going on.

Low End:
...for lack of a better words. Fuck yes. Low, tight, unassuming bass. The dual 2245s(I think) in ported cabs are just what the Dr. ordered. I can't say enough about these subs. The low end was the type of titanic but controlled bass that I love. It wasn't the skull crushing annoying bass that slaps you in the face over and over and yells at you that its there like a milwaukees best drinking frat boy at the bar, no this was a "little" more refined. A deep low bass that enveloped the room. In the organ track it pressurized the room which in all honestly felt a little uncomfortable but an amazing experience nonetheless. It added to each track with a seamless transition which I really appreciated, in the other tracks you couldn't hear the transition between midrange and bass which was nice as well. Just a joy to listen to.

Source:
I am a computer guy...but I choose to listen not from a FLAC track but a CD or vinyl (I have FLAC backups). I am not a big fan of DACs as I have found many I don't like and only a couple that I do. I was really surprised that this setup really was the type that to the speakers credit I think you can really discern the difference, easily, in sources. And moreover I was struck over and over at the mix of the cds we were listening to as I think this system is extremely sensitive to them. If the source material was mastered badly or if it was given some type of curve you know it right away. So when I was listening I thought the DAC was actually going to be far and away worse than the CD player (personal bias once again) but that was not the case at all. Over and over again I was reminded of just how much the source plays in the whole playback chain. Some of the DAC only tracks or digital tracks sounded the cleanest of even the cds. It was a strange realization, usually I automatically expect that a 16-bit 44.1 CD mastered as the artist intended will always be the most faithful and transparent selection to listen to. I think some of the tracks played through the PS Audio DAC sounded far and away better than the cds some were very different than I was used to and it was my music I was realizing this on. I should have done a A/B test but we didn't get to it. Really interesting, I am not sure whether the PS Audio DAC is adding something to the sound or its just a higher quality recording that made the difference. Not sure. But it was interesting to note. I think it gets back to a good system is just that, a system the sum of its parts and must be judged or listened to and evaluated as such.

All in all I was extremely impressed with the system. As noted there were some things that I noticed that were different then what I personnaly like but the system was set up well and the music choice was very nice. Its always better to listen to something that you are familiar to do a evaluation however it was nice to hear Jim's selection and mine and really see where the system shined.

My own personal journey or trying to put together a set of studio monitors will be informed by this experience.

rusty jefferson

03-06-2016, 09:13 PM

Hey Ed,

Thanks for coming over to check out the system last week and for taking the time to share your thoughts. I appreciate the honest feedback, as I like to know what others hear in my system.

For those wondering about the sources, I store uncompressed FLAC (.WAV) files on a NAS and use a DLNA renderer (essentially an Ethernet to S/PDIF (or i2s) converter) over my home network to feed the DAC. The Cary CD player also feeds the DAC via S/PDIF. So, both sources feed the same DAC, but the renderer does sound better than the transport IMO, and I think in your opinion also if I understand your comments.

As we discussed last week, I'm convinced source is everything. It's the reason I demo the system with an inexpensive amplifier. I think these 35 year old monitors do a good job showing us what's on a recording (including low frequency never heard on the small monitors used in some studios), it's mostly whether we like what's on the recording. My demo tracks cover the spectrum from live recordings in an acoustic space like NAIM Records, MA (Thanks Clark), and Mapleshade, to live studio ensemble, to multi-track close miced popular music. The image and soundstage moves based on the recording. Some have incredible depth and or width, and some feel like the singer is sitting on your lap and the band is trapped narrowly between the speakers. Some things have killer slam and midbass, while others seem weak or thin. It can be annoying, especially when our favorite records don't give us the joy we're after. My taste in music has been moving toward better quality recordings that are emotionally engaging, and away from old favorites that were poorly recorded/mastered.

I have a couple friends with good systems. One of them has a system that always sounds good no matter what we play on it including 78s, but nothing sounds great. The other has a system more like this one, in that it shows more of what's on the record. Some things sound great, some terrible. When he wants to listen to the Who or the Stones, he grabs a couple CDs and goes for a drive cause he can't stand how they sound on his system but loves how they sound in the car. Stereo systems are indeed compromises. :)

Ducatista47

03-07-2016, 04:32 PM

As we discussed last week, I'm convinced source is everything. It's the reason I demo the system with an inexpensive amplifier. I think these 35 year old monitors do a good job showing us what's on a recording (including low frequency never heard on the small monitors used in some studios), it's mostly whether we like what's on the recording. My demo tracks cover the spectrum from live recordings in an acoustic space like NAIM Records, MA (Thanks Clark), and Mapleshade, to live studio ensemble, to multi-track close miced popular music. The image and soundstage moves based on the recording. Some have incredible depth and or width, and some feel like the singer is sitting on your lap and the band is trapped narrowly between the speakers. Some things have killer slam and midbass, while others seem weak or thin. It can be annoying, especially when our favorite records don't give us the joy we're after. My taste in music has been moving toward better quality recordings that are emotionally engaging, and away from old favorites that were poorly recorded/mastered.

I have a couple friends with good systems. One of them has a system that always sounds good no matter what we play on it including 78s, but nothing sounds great. The other has a system more like this one, in that it shows more of what's on the record. Some things sound great, some terrible. When he wants to listen to the Who or the Stones, he grabs a couple CDs and goes for a drive cause he can't stand how they sound on his system but loves how they sound in the car. Stereo systems are indeed compromises. :)
Nice (and interesting) information, Jim. I am also familiar with systems that are forgiving and others that are not. I have both here too, and have heard a few (:D) others as well. What follows is in no way intended to be a criticism of anyone, but rather to point out something I feel sneaks up on us without our realizing it. Or perhaps I am full of crap!

It is certainly true that source recording quality informs - or defeats - nearly everything else. This is all less important to me in the great scheme of things than it is to many of the hobbyists here, as far as I can tell. We run all the way from audio equipment as furniture to not caring what it looks like as long as it sounds great, and from craving perfect reproduction from the best recorded music to getting the same level of satisfaction from laser accurate systems and IPods both.

The one thing that always informs what I do with the listening pastime is that for me it is truly all about the music. I find that the brain - the mind if you will - fills in missing information from our experience and ignores most noise (old listeners like me can remember when vinyl and shellac were all there was, we didn't hear the pops, clicks and other record noise) - IF YOU LET IT. If you fixate on the quality of reproduction, that is what is in the forefront of your experience. It has always been this way with perception of soundstage and imaging too. Why is it that with sound, musical or not, we can isolate one conversation or the stereo from a noisy party in our room, but cannot focus on music from our rigs if we sense distortion or anything else competing with it for our attention. I'll tell you why. In pursuing the music reproduction hobby, we have trained ourselves to hear reproduction quality instead of music. Before there is an outcry that you can do both at the same time, see my last paragraph.

At this point we allow technical considerations to become more important than the music the artists have created for us to enjoy. Like the other choices of the way we construct and listen to our gear, this is also a choice. One I hope I will never choose, because for me it is all about the music and I find I can enjoy just about any music source on any system because it is. Either it is all about the music and it informs what sounds good to you, or your taste in equipment and recording quality informs what sound good to you.

I personally think one can enjoy seeking better reproduction as a hobby without influencing what music we choose to listen to. I would like to think I am succeeding in this. It is clear not all of us are doing this. I say, to each his own but what a shame. IMO, of course.

One preemptive strike. Can you pay complete attention to music while simultaneously noticing how it being reproduced? No, you cannot. You may think you are, but it is not possible. Our goal is to have the equipment disappear, but if we are noticing how it is doing it has not disappeared. The act of critically listening to the equipment is still present.

rusty jefferson

03-07-2016, 10:14 PM

....... Either it is all about the music and it informs what sounds good to you, or your taste in equipment and recording quality informs what sound good to you.

I personally think one can enjoy seeking better reproduction as a hobby without influencing what music we choose to listen to. I would like to think I am succeeding in this. It is clear not all of us are doing this. I say, to each his own but what a shame. IMO, of course.......

Hey Clark, good to hear from you.

I don't think it's so cut and dry, however. Just as my taste in food, books, and art have expanded and evolved, so has my taste in music. There was a couple years in the mid/late 70s when I listened pretty much exclusively to 7th-8th generation bootleg cassette tapes of Grateful Dead shows, and LOVED them. You couldn't pay me to listen to those things now. I still appreciate what that band did, and always will, but I won't ever need to hear those tapes again to do so. :dancin:

Some knowledgeable friends are exposing me to new music that not only sounds wonderful, but was also wonderfully made. Best of both worlds.

tinpan

03-12-2016, 06:57 AM

hjames

03-12-2016, 09:50 AM

Well, looks like I am getting back on my feet again. After a year with no yob man...I am finally employed again.
Course, first week on the job and I have a really bad cold... go figure. Anyway, give me a couple weeks to get caught up on a few yard chores,
rid of my cold and I 'll be happy to have some folks over for a listening session. I'm in Fredericksburg,
I have a couple JBL systems, and my favorite speaker wire, when I can run it is 47 Labs OTA Storatos Cable which you can see at the bottom of the page here:
http://www.sakurasystems.com/store.html (http://www.sakurasystems.com/store.html). Mostly I run 300b tubes.

Awesome, thanks for the invite -

Of course, I am out of work now, as of yesterday -
but hopefully a new contract will come through and that ill get sorted before April.

Anyway, as long as we do this on a Saturday, I'll be able to make it!
Emma was called to become the main pastor in our church now,
so my Sundays are booked there ...

dkalsi

06-12-2017, 06:44 AM

I had the pleasure of listening to Jim's system recently and I must say I was thoroughly impressed.

We didn't do any cable swapping tests so I cannot comment on that. But in regards to the system overall, it was really a treat to listen to. I've been to few Hi-Fi shows in the last couple years and can confidently say Jim's system would easily rank at the very top (in my opinion).

I was only sitting may 7 or 8 feet away from the speakers but the imaging was just so impressive. They are massive speakers, but when it comes to their sound they truly disappear. In my opinion, the most impressive part of the overall system was the absolutely seamless integration of the 813s with the 2245 subs. They integrated well at low volume and high volume setting. The bass was not boomy or overwhelming in any way. I now understand why the 2245s have a cult following. In my opinion, they are better sounding than many large JBL studio monitors.

Also, even though it was not over the top, I could tell that Jim spent at least some time in tweaking speaker placement and utilizing sound treatment. I, unfortunately, don't have a dedicated listening room where I could pull the speakers away from the walls and put sound treatment around the room. That being said, I do believe it is one of the most effective ways to achieve better sound. I think is one aspect of audio very few audiophiles seem to focus on.

Overall - excellent system and since thanks for Jim inviting me to listen to it.

hjames

06-12-2017, 09:22 AM

Yes yes, time for another meetup somewhere before the end of summer 2017!
The last one I managed to get to was at svollmer's place April 29th!
I'd host one, but nothing's really changed much at my place in a while ...

rusty jefferson

06-12-2017, 04:25 PM

Thanks for the nice comments, Dhar. It was great to see you again, and to meet your wife. If there's anyone else in the DMV that would like to hear the system let me know, I'd be happy to host. Made a couple nice improvements since the last meet here with Heather, Steve, and Wilfredo. I missed that meet at Steve's house in April, but am looking forward to hearing his new speakers.

Riley Casey

05-07-2021, 04:33 PM

I gather this DC group fizzled out long before the pandemic. Any plans to rev up again after the world turns?

rusty jefferson

05-08-2021, 05:01 AM

Hey Riley, we are all definitely looking forward to getting together to listen to music again. No meets since 2019 and not everyone is necessarily running JBL if that's important, though there's undoubtedly some in the house. My UREI/sub system is apart right now during an ongoing diy remodel but I hope to get it back up and running later this year or next winter. PM me and we'll keep you posted about what we're planning. - Jim

hjames

05-08-2021, 05:31 PM

I gather this DC group fizzled out long before the pandemic. Any plans to rev up again after the world turns?
Near as I know the DC audio pals are still on the go! I've had 2 shots and so has my wife Emma, but have not had any audiophiles in the house for well over a year -Got to do some housecleaning, at the least.

Don't have a lot of JBLs here - 2 pair of (JBL coaxial-based) UREI 809s in the Multichannel rig downstairs,
got the modded Heath/Altec- Valencias upstairs - but the regulars have all heard my stuff!
Well, except for the Raspberry Pi streaming system I added to the upstairs system.

I think the last audio-bash I attended was with Wilfredo at Tinpan's place to hear his VOTT system
and a number of other high efficiency system. Bit of a drive but very nice!

So - what do you have to share Riley?

Riley Casey

05-13-2021, 04:32 PM

Neither my JBLs nor my Altecs are particularly presentable other than a very nicely turned out subwoofer enclosure that was gifted to me by a nearby forum member. My other speakers are old 4827 stage monitor boxes or very utilitarian locally made studio monitor enclosures for Altec 601s and 604s. The oldest are from the seventies and the newest are probably from the 90s. I just didn't know the flavor of the local group thus my question.

hjames

09-03-2021, 12:43 PM

Riley Casey

09-04-2021, 05:44 AM

Just riding my bike everywhere and setting up sound for a few outdoor events. We have an indoor wedding to set up this weekend and I have misgivings. Too bad that listening parties don't lend themselves to outdoor settings. My biggest project right now is deciding how to move ahead with building enclosures for my 14" B&C coax drivers that I initially bought to test as replacements for all my stage monitors and then decided I liked them better than my Altec 604s. Sold the 604s just in time for Covid to hit and turn everything upside down. How are you holding up in all this?

And 4 months later we are still holding off on listener parties at my house -
so, how are you making out, Riley?

hjames

09-04-2021, 09:03 AM

Changed jobs twice as contracts ended but I'm still 100% telework. I'm the tech lead for our small local church, so I got us online with Facebook live via iPad last March, then when a facebook update broke that in June, I did some updates with a gifted macbook and Logitech webcam and we've been using that for the last couple months. Mostly online but we do have a dozen or so folks in attendance now, limited numbers to preserve safe distancing.

My wife (Rev) Emma was the officiant at her niece's (indoor) wedding in Richmond last month - big deal with lots of family and friends for the weekend - but we've been vaccinated for a while now, and did mask in the densest part of the event. We were looking forward to our annual trip to Richmond end of October for the Highland Games and festival - Celtic games, music, food, beer and whiskey tastings. And drums and pipers! But at the end of August they decided to cancel it again this year, as the Delta variant is ramping up. Ah well ...

In the interest of downsizing again, clearing the clutter in our living room - I have 4 large pairs of speakers in there and basically gave away some Optimus speakers I refurbed,
and I have decided to sell off the Heath/Altec Valencias I refurbed over the last couple years to free up room there.

I did get some new old speakers (JBL L212) due to a crazy great deal, and have been enjoying music with them ...
Like Weasel on WTMD 9-Mid Friday nights & replayed Sat Noon -3PM! - https://wtmd.org/radio/sample-page/weasel/

Just riding my bike everywhere and setting up sound for a few outdoor events. We have an indoor wedding to set up this weekend and I have misgivings. Too bad that listening parties don't lend themselves to outdoor settings. My biggest project right now is deciding how to move ahead with building enclosures for my 14" B&C coax drivers that I initially bought to test as replacements for all my stage monitors and then decided I liked them better than my Altec 604s. Sold the 604s just in time for Covid to hit and turn everything upside down. How are you holding up in all this?

Riley Casey

09-04-2021, 02:18 PM

hjames

09-04-2021, 05:46 PM

Sounds like you and your Reverend landed sticky side up in this brave new world. I wondered what happened to Weasel.
He was doing a show on WOWD for a time but I haven't heard him since the plague started. Glad he landed somewhere. Being an ex Takoma Park hippie my Mac Mini stream machine is tuned to WOWD 24/7.
Closing my shop gave me lots of spare 12 year old Macs :blink: for permanent media boxes.

I heard John Paige (Abstractions show on WGTB back in the day) is now on Monday afternoons WOWD TK Park - tho I keep forgetting to dial him in while I'm at work.
Got a 2009 macPro for my main machine here - hacked a bit (was Quadcore-now 3.33 hexCore Xeon), flashed the chips, and currently running Mojave on it,
tho I'm hesitant to try to run Catalina or Big Sur on it - I've heard the newer OSX security settings makes it less "open" for such hacks, and I don't want to brick it!
I have a Raspberry Pi4 microcomputer on my main system running Volumio as a neat little digital streamer -
its set for some internet radio stations as well as Grateful Dead Radio, Paradise Radio, and Qobuz.
Nicely replace the Airport Express in that location.

BMWCCA

09-05-2021, 06:00 AM

Got a 2009 macPro for my main machine here - hacked a bit (was Quadcore-now 3.33 hexCore Xeon), flashed the chips, and currently running Mojave on it,
tho I'm hesitant to try to run Catalina or Big Sur on it - I've heard the newer OSX security settings makes it less "open" for such hacks, and I don't want to brick it!
I'm running a "Mid-2012" MBP that I had to update to Mojave just to be able to do my taxes on TurboTax this year. Got an ominous warning from TurboTax that I'd need a newer machine to continue to use TurboTax next year. Never has my poor MPB run slower or become more touchy than it has since "updating" to Mojave. It takes forever do to anything like open a new tab, or anything simple. Can't wait to go with a newer machine but my accumulation of files over the last four MacBooks will require larger storage than most of the new ones offer for a reasonable price. Hate to lose all my old conversations with Internet friends, and photos and JBL technical specs that are no longer accessible from LH links.

Riley Casey

09-05-2021, 03:02 PM

Mojave OS was designed with the expectation that the computer it runs on has an SSD. If you still have a spinning drive it's going to be onerous. Installing an SSD and moving the old internal drive to an external case for file storage will make a 2012 MBP work just as fast at most operations as a 2018 MBP. Or so my 2012 MBP tells me.

I'm running a "Mid-2012" MBP that I had to update to Mojave just to be able to do my taxes on TurboTax this year. Got an ominous warning from TurboTax that I'd need a newer machine to continue to use TurboTax next year. Never has my poor MPB run slower or become more touchy than it has since "updating" to Mojave. It takes forever do to anything like open a new tab, or anything simple. Can't wait to go with a newer machine but my accumulation of files over the last four MacBooks will require larger storage than most of the new ones offer for a reasonable price. Hate to lose all my old conversations with Internet friends, and photos and JBL technical specs that are no longer accessible from LH links.

BMWCCA

09-05-2021, 08:58 PM

RMC

09-06-2021, 12:34 AM

Possibly not your thing since it ain't Apple, but a year and a half ago purchased an HP Notebook 15-DA2027CA, Win 10, has two drives plus optical drive on board (DVD Writer). Pretty fast Intel core i 5 10th gen, 8 GB Ram.

128 GB SSD mostly to run Windows and programs (using 42% of space), and for storage the other is 1 TB SATA. Enough space for a while. No complaints yet...

BMWCCA

09-06-2021, 04:26 AM

Possibly not your thing since it ain't Apple, Thanks for the suggestion but, having started with an Apple IIe and purchasing the 3rd Mac sold in my town decades ago, I hope when I finally retire from my job I'll never have to touch another Windows box for the rest of my life! I know, that's short-sighted. It's just the way it is . . .

Riley Casey

09-06-2021, 07:13 AM

In 1986 I walked into a small computer store on Rockville Pike to buy a computer to use for my business. The sole salesman was busy with another customer so I spent some time poking around on the two computers on display that were powered on. The Apple Mac had a mouse with a button and pictures of file folders and documents on it's greyscale screen. The IBM had a black screen with a blinking green dash on it. Having never before operated a computer more complex than a pocket calculator I nonetheless managed to open some sort of readme document on the Mac and once having done that I figured out how to drop menus down that was about it. I discovered that I could type characters on the IBM but that was about it. When it was my turn with the salesman I said " I'll take the Apple one since the IBM seems to be broken". ;)

Didn't even try again with anything MS based until Win 95 was available as one of the early corporate events my company provided a sound system for was the roll out of Windows One for the federal government also in 1986. The company rep gave a speech and walked everyone thru the operations of the new OS on the big multi image screen and then the assembled government computer geeks were turned loss on the twenty or so workstations throughout the Ontario Theater. Within an hour the audience had largely drifted away as all the computers had locked up. :crying:

Thanks for the suggestion but, having started with an Apple IIe and purchasing the 3rd Mac sold in my town decades ago, I hope when I finally retire from my job I'll never have to touch another Windows box for the rest of my life! I know, that's short-sighted. It's just the way it is . . .

hjames

09-06-2021, 10:17 AM

Mojave OS was designed with the expectation that the computer it runs on has an SSD. If you still have a spinning drive it's going to be onerous. Installing an SSD and moving the old internal drive to an external case for file storage will make a 2012 MBP work just as fast at most operations as a 2018 MBP. Or so my 2012 MBP tells me.
Yep, I swapped my main HDD to a SSD, and installed a Firecuda 510 (500GB) M.2 PCIe ($100) and card on the motherboard. MUCH Faster.
That and upping to a NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 2GB graphics card made a huge difference in my ancient 2009 Mac Pro. And maxing it at 32 Gig RAM. ;)

So - I did start with a home-assembled 286-20 and Dos 3.1. When I swapped it for a 386 I added multitasking with DesqView and QEMM and stood up a BBS on it in the late 80s. By mid '96 I was moving from BBSs to ArpaNet. I bought a G4 power Mac around 2000, and moved away from Windows machines about then, except for what I used at work. We also had linux servers at work, so after a while I had my hand in all of the above ... Had a mac Mini for a while, then bought the Quadcore Mac Pro in 2010, and started hacking it around 2016 - first with an expanded processor board, then newer Wifi card, ram, etc. I do have 8 drives tied to it - 4 in an external case - roughly 12TB these days.

RMC

09-06-2021, 05:31 PM

As part of my hoarding kept the 1990 DOS manual that came with my first computer in 1991, i think it was a 286. That manual has 506 pages! of commands to type along with explanations for each one. Pretty well made. Still pure madness though.

Manual says DR DOS is a Disk Operating System designed to work on micro-computers based on Intel microprocessors 8088, i386, i486 or compatible.

No doubt that folks with an Apple had it easier...

8949589496

rusty jefferson

10-25-2022, 03:43 PM

So, in spring 2019 my wife and I decided to make some changes to our little house to make......well, old age a little more comfortable. Sadly, the loser in this arrangement was the UREI 813C and 2245h subwoofer large format monitors. We converted the listening room to other needed living spaces and the speakers went into storage.

After much procrastinating over the last few years, Friday morning the UREIs/subs got packed into a U-haul trailer to make the trip to a new home. We wish the new owners well and hope the system brings them many hours of musical enjoyment.

DerekTheGreat

10-26-2022, 08:13 AM

Those new owners would be me and the Mrs in Southeast Michigan! Glad Rusty came across my "Looking for subwoofer recommendations to pair with my XPL200's" thread. Because yep, got some subwoofers alright. :D Rusty and his wife are wonderful people, had a great time. Should be said that Rusty went above and beyond, because of him every piece of kit ended up in that trailer very well packed. I mean, he made custom jigs for us to keep them in place during transit! Not to mention all the time he took to school me on things, to dismantle the speakers and load them in the trailer with me. He even threw in his Carver amp, that blew me away. Truly a stand-up guy. Almost forgot, Mrs Jefferson got dougnuts for the listening party! Wish we could have stayed longer to B.S., but the road was beckoning and we were working off of one hour of sleep..

Here they are in their new home, aka Derek's shit shack, of which Mrs DTG helped unload and put in place. She loves the look:
91224

Mr. Widget

10-26-2022, 01:12 PM

Congratulations!!!

Rusty, sorry for your loss, but I understand.

Widget

hjames

10-26-2022, 03:19 PM

Yes, Rusty and the Mrs are very fine people to deal with!
Nice to know where those amazing UREI speakers & subs went!
Listening to them was an awesome experience!

DerekTheGreat

10-27-2022, 03:55 AM

Cool picture of you jamming, Heather!

Very awesome indeed, I am digging them. Saw your thread as well, seems the experience sent you in search of some UREI's as well. :bouncy: I LOVE how efficient these are! (Amidst other things..) When funds allow, I will certainly be exploring the Aquaplas coated diaphragms. :)

hjames

10-27-2022, 05:16 AM

rusty jefferson

10-27-2022, 06:05 AM

Great picture Heather. Almost forgot how big they are until I set them up in the basement for Derek to hear!

I'm very happy they went to a good home with plenty of space, an understanding (soon to be) spouse and a member here who is also much younger than me. Gotta get/keep the younger folks into the Lansing Heritage.

Derek, many of the purists prefer the Altec UREIs to the JBL UREIs, but I think the E-145 is just an excellent midrange woofer, and now that Ken (Edgewound) is putting Aquaplas on the titanium diaphragms (something unavailable to me) these speakers will hopefully bring many years of happy listening and even better sound than I had.:bouncy:

DerekTheGreat

10-27-2022, 09:28 AM

Thanks, but it's not about me - these speakers are legendary!
Opimax shot the picture, and the room is well lit
so you can see all the details of these amazing speakers here.

Besides, who doesn't love quad 15s with 2 18s for reinforcement. :D
It's not overkill - Rusty had them dialed in beautifully!

They impressed me enough that I found a pair of the 811B single 15" UREIs
and went to WV to buy them. My job ended immediately afterwards (!)
and I panic-sold them ... :( Just too big for me.
But I love the 3 pairs of 809A UREIs I own now.

I can see why. I love the quad 15 arrangement! Looks killer, and really slams. The 18's are magic as well. Although I see I have them arranged upside down compared to rusty's arrangement... Was a pain to set them up! LoL if it matters though, I'm sure my fiancée will help me swap 'em around. I've got them too close to the rear wall anyway, can't get back there like I intended. But I'm having so much fun with them I don't want to go through the rig-a-marole that is moving stuff around..

I understand the panic.. Waaay beyond my original subwoofer budget but this was one of those opportunities I just couldn't pass up. Glad I didn't and glad rusty made them available to me.

Great picture Heather. Almost forgot how big they are until I set them up in the basement for Derek to hear!

I'm very happy they went to a good home with plenty of space, an understanding (soon to be) spouse and a member here who is also much younger than me. Gotta get/keep the younger folks into the Lansing Heritage.

Derek, many of the purists prefer the Altec UREIs to the JBL UREIs, but I think the E-145 is just an excellent midrange woofer, and now that Ken (Edgewound) is putting Aquaplas on the titanium diaphragms (something unavailable to me) these speakers will hopefully bring many years of happy listening and even better sound than I had.:bouncy:

You know, when I first mentioned the speakers to her I had that hesitation type tone in my voice. Something akin to "This really awesome opportunity came up but I don't know if I can manage it.." And yet she was so eager and enthusiastic with her response it quickly changed my tune, "So we're going on a road trip???!!! Those look awesome and would be a shoe-in for the living room!"

I wish I could say my dad got me into Lansing stuff, and I guess he did.. He was always somewhat into audio, but not to the extent I've fallen into it. He's never done a preamp + amplifier arrangement, for example. To him, Bose makes good products.... But, it was when I got a set of Northridge 6" bookshelves to "compliment" the Bose 301's he got me for Christmas the year before that I realized how much better they were over the more expensive product. I then took notice of the brand and became fascinated with their history and immediately fell in love with the appearance of the L220's. I was probably only 16 at the time. Anyway, that's a long winded conversation but yes, I am trying to get her daughters into music and the equipment behind it. They're already well versed in bands like the Eagles, Alice Cooper, The Beatles and such. If I could part anything into them, it would be my love for music.

Hmm, all the reading I've done suggests the "C" variant to be superior to many. I can't say as I've never heard the early versions, but am digging these. I do love the midrange on them, something these do better than the XPL's. Although it is a bit "thick" if you will. Could also be that they just reveal poor source material like you said. Very eager to try the Aquaplas coated ti diaphragms, but I wonder what Ken wants for a set. Also curious to know what he does to get that stuff to stick to the ti. Being that my background is surface treatment and paint, I wonder if the vibrations over time will cause that stuff to flake off. Does he rough up the surface any before applying the Aquaplas?

hjames

10-27-2022, 09:50 AM

You know, when I first mentioned the speakers to her I had that hesitation type tone in my voice.
Something akin to "This really awesome opportunity came up but I don't know if I can manage it.." And yet she was so eager and enthusiastic
with her response it quickly changed my tune, "So we're going on a road trip???!!! Those look awesome and would be a shoe-in for the living room!"

Yep, Emma is much like that - she loves it when I am happy, and I am happy and blessed!
Having a spouse that supports our hobby, even a hobby as crazy as this, makes life grand!
And honestly, when we are happy, we're a lot more fun to be around, aren't we? :D

I've been sharing all the details of my newest speaker project with her,
the 2 or 3 way build with JBL 2216nd woofers with the JohnW wooden horns,
and I've been working towards a lower budget for the cabinet build, yet
she's encouraged me to go a high $ route to get them right & make sure they are keepers.

DerekTheGreat

10-28-2022, 04:07 AM

Yep, Emma is much like that - she loves it when I am happy, and I am happy and blessed!
Having a spouse that supports our hobby, even a hobby as crazy as this, makes life grand!
And honestly, when we are happy, we're a lot more fun to be around, aren't we? :D

I've been sharing all the details of my newest speaker project with her,
the 2 or 3 way build with JBL 2216nd woofers with the JohnW wooden horns,
and I've been working towards a lower budget for the cabinet build, yet
she's encouraged me to go a high $ route to get them right & make sure they are keepers.

Haha yes, we are much more fun to be around when we're on that happy high. Same goes for her. I'll admit that when I reflect on past relationships, I feel so fortunate that she is always laughing and smiling around me. It's been almost two years and I am still floored by that, love to see her that way. I mean, being an idiot mixed with goofball means I'm typically good for a chuckle here and there but never considered my company enjoyable to the extent she finds it to be. :bouncy: I also hadn't purchased anything audio related while we've been together. So when I brought those 813C's up to her I expected something along the lines of, "Hmm, those are overkill and they're really far away. How would we even get them here? What if you don't like them?" But her response blew me away and now here we are.

Glad your spouse is equally supportive. Sounds like a cool build, do you have a thread going for them?

hjames

10-28-2022, 12:28 PM

Haha yes, we are much more fun to be around when we're on that happy high. Same goes for her. I'll admit that when I reflect on past relationships, I feel so fortunate that she is always laughing and smiling around me. It's been almost two years and I am still floored by that, love to see her that way. I mean, being an idiot mixed with goofball means I'm typically good for a chuckle here and there but never considered my company enjoyable to the extent she finds it to be. :bouncy: I also hadn't purchased anything audio related while we've been together. So when I brought those 813C's up to her I expected something along the lines of, "Hmm, those are overkill and they're really far away. How would we even get them here? What if you don't like them?" But her response blew me away and now here we are.

Glad your spouse is equally supportive. Sounds like a cool build, do you have a thread going for them?
I haven't done much of a thread here on the Lansing site yet, but I have detailed some minutiae of the ongoing build on Audiokarma ...
Still collecting the parts for the main cabinet build - its a new cabinet build per Dhar and Jim.

I'm no longer planning to use L200B cabinet - too hard to find cheaply - and I want the woofer higher from the floor
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/need-some-jbl-dynamics-new-2-way-horn-project.1006912/page-6

Whoops, I've looked and found I mader comments in KCjblSound's thread here - didn't mean to derail their thread -
https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?43383-JBL-L200B-with-2216nd-LE85-H91-and-077-Crossover-recommendations

I really need to move my posts from his thread out into a new thread ...
Maybe Mr Widget can help move them to this new thread for me?

Okay, I just quick wrote 2 posts that give the basic idea and initial direction of this project ..
https://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?43476-Heather-s-2-way-3-way-2022-build

FWIW, I am retired these days- but I have other tasks and projects around the house,
so tho I may rush through parts of this like I did over the last month or so,
other times it may sit for a while as other things occur.

Mr. Widget

11-10-2022, 01:03 PM

Anyone in the DC Metro Area going to the Capital Audiofest? If anyone does, please look for and report back on the new Andrew Jones MoFi SourcePoint 10 speakers. I think they may be pretty great.

rusty jefferson

11-10-2022, 02:07 PM

I'll be going Sunday and will look for them.

rusty jefferson

11-14-2022, 08:12 AM

Anyone in the DC Metro Area going to the Capital Audiofest? If anyone does, please look for and report back on the new Andrew Jones MoFi SourcePoint 10 speakers. I think they may be pretty great.Well, I tried to write a short review of my thoughts of these speakers, but perhaps as part of the upload problem (?) I can't seem to create paragraphs. Needless to say, nobody wants to see a page like that. So, in short, the speakers are good and certainly worth the retail price. There's a lot of technology in those speakers for the cost. Custom drivers, faceted baffle to reduce diffraction, good time alignment, high efficiency (by today's standards), easy load to drive, nice wood veneer cabinet. As we would expect, they are very coherent and image beautifully. I really couldn't judge tonal balance because the dealer installed a BAT integrated amplifier (borrowed, not theirs) for Sunday, as there were comments the room was lean and maybe a little aggressive Friday/Sat using a Hifi Rose integrated. The BAT had luxurious midrange but rubbery bass. The dealer was quite open about the change. Dhar said he heard them on Friday and was surprised how poorly they sounded. In all fairness, it was a terrible room. Quite small, almost square, and filled anytime I tried to get in even though the show was quite slow in the morning. The marketing folks did a great job stirring up interest. The bass bloom could have been exaggerated where I sat but it has been my experience to date BAT amplifiers tend to be wooly on the bottom (no flames, just my opinion). Perhaps Heather or others made it in?

Mr. Widget

11-14-2022, 09:00 AM

If you follow Earl’s suggested settings, you will be able to create paragraphs as well as upload pictures.

It doesn’t fix everything, but it is better than the current alternative.

Widget

Mr. Widget

11-14-2022, 09:06 AM

From Earl.

rusty jefferson

11-14-2022, 09:07 AM

If you follow Earl’s suggested settings, you will be able to create paragraphs as well as upload pictures.

It doesn’t fix everything, but it is better than the current alternative.

Widget
Thanks, just found it and adjusted.