JBL 4345 build

[quindecima]

I am getting ready to build the cabs for my speakers and was looking over the plans submitted by Mr. Reissen. At the bottom of the thread he adds that all joints are factory locking miter but I don't see that in the plans the joints are rabbited. I don't have access to a 10in. table saw and if I am off just a small amount those miter joints are not going to fit whereas the other joints will be more forgiving Since I am going to cover with veneer anyway what the heck. Any input on these joints?

These are my tools........Skill77 with a very good blade, good straight edge, clamps, good router, good skills, glue and screws.

[roadkingbluzs]

I am also looking to build this cab, sometime in the future?? There is a router bit that does the joints you are looking for. Another option is to have a cabinet builder do the joints. I will try and find the make/model # of router. Good luck to you!

[quindecima]

There are a bunch of locking miter bits that can be used, it's probably best to pick out the single bit instead of two. (cheaper) All you need to do is change the direction of the cut and you have the miter.

[quindecima]

So far today. baffles cut out, sides, tops and bottoms and ends mitered. Not too happy with ply, should have gotten the MDF with the plywood facing it makes better miters but when they are glued and clamped no one will know.

[Challenger604]

So far today. baffles cut out, sides, tops and bottoms and ends mitered. Not too happy with ply, should have gotten the MDF with the plywood facing it makes better miters but when they are glued and clamped no one will know.

Don't worry about the plywood. You will sand it before painting. Way much better than MDF. When done, you'll be so happy!
C

[speakerdave]

Looking good. :thmbsup:

[quindecima]

Thanks Dave, I had hole saws for everything but the large drivers so I scribed them out with large dividers and used my Bosch Jigsaw with new blades and took my time cutting them out and sanded them, you have to look close to see any difference between that and routing.

[Challenger604]

Thanks Dave, I had hole saws for everything but the large drivers so I scribed them out with large dividers and used my Bosch Jigsaw with new blades and took my time cutting them out and sanded them, you have to look close to see any difference between that and routing.

Only you will know!
C

[quindecima]

Got that right and hopefully I won't lose any sleep over it. :D :D I did the bases for the cabinets tonight and at the moment am swilling down a flagon of the grape and listening to chicken Shack on Pandora. I'll be real glad to get these puppies assembled and hooked up to a pair of kick butt amps. :bouncy:

[quindecima]

Today my router bits came so I routed out the holes for the tubes and rabbeted the sides for the 2123 enclosures and glued the crap out of them. I couldn't find a bit that was the same thickness as the cardboard tube wall so I blue taped up the bearing until it was close and it worked fine. The 2123 enclosures turned out to be somewhat of a bitch, if you don't have as table saw be real careful and check everything BEFORE you glue them up. I have a good saw, blades and straightedges and NOTHING takes the place of a 10in or even better a 12in table saw. Make sure you locate the holes for the drivers before you cut them out it will benefit you greatly. I frustrated the crap out of my self on the 2123 enclosures but my wife made me two tacos and opened a nice bottle of the grape, I have almost recovered. The only hard part left is to route out the baffle on the back side for the enclosures. I am going to build a jig for that.

[Challenger604]

Today my router bits came so I routed out the holes for the tubes and rabbeted the sides for the 2123 enclosures and glued the crap out of them. I couldn't find a bit that was the same thickness as the cardboard tube wall so I blue taped up the bearing until it was close and it worked fine. The 2123 enclosures turned out to be somewhat of a bitch, if you don't have as table saw be real careful and check everything BEFORE you glue them up. I have a good saw, blades and straightedges and NOTHING takes the place of a 10in or even better a 12in table saw. Make sure you locate the holes for the drivers before you cut them out it will benefit you greatly. I frustrated the crap out of my self on the 2123 enclosures but my wife made me two tacos and opened a nice bottle of the grape, I have almost recovered. The only hard part left is to route out the baffle on the back side for the enclosures. I am going to build a jig for that.

The key of all of that is patience!

[quindecima]

Today is the day. I routed out the back of my baffles and routed them for the 2123H enclosures. The jig I made was only about a 1/16 off so I only had to move it a little bit and they fit perfectly, I had to tap them into place with a hammer to seat them. The middle pic shows the jig I made, nothing hi tech but it served it's purpose. I rabbeted the sides of the enclosures with a 5/16 bit.

[quindecima]

I got these in the mail today, we are moving along nicely

[quindecima]

Cabs 95% done, only have to cut the backs, bracing and install batting. I made two mistakes. The driver above the mid is off by 3/8in from center, so is the other speaker. I think I measured wrong (no kidding) and didn't allow for the trim at least they are the same on each one. The bottom bracing is also off, not e4nough reveal in the front and I didn't notice until I set the base on it. It was already glued and screwed and I wasn't about to take it apart 2 days later, I will compensate for that with a 1in.x3/4 Walnut trim.

[tjm001]

Looking good!

Tom

[Challenger604]

Cabs 95% done, only have to cut the backs, bracing and install batting. I made two mistakes. The driver above the mid is off by 3/8in from center, so is the other speaker. I think I measured wrong (no kidding) and didn't allow for the trim at least they are the same on each one. The bottom bracing is also off, not e4nough reveal in the front and I didn't notice until I set the base on it. It was already glued and screwed and I wasn't about to take it apart 2 days later, I will compensate for that with a 1in.x3/4 Walnut trim.


Nice! If you want to do a 30 degrees angle trim on front, you will need to take the base off or pre-cut the trim...
C

[quindecima]

Taking the base off is NOT going to happen. :eek: I am going to order a 30 degree router bit and I have figured out how to use it without any problems of tipping the router.

[Challenger604]

Taking the base off is NOT going to happen. :eek: I am going to order a 30 degree router bit and I have figured out how to use it without any problems of tipping the router.

You could do from the front but that could be challenging. The german guy who build the 4355's like a tank had to rip all of his bases off! Hard to watch :crying:!

I could put a board on the baffle (speaker on his back) of the same thickness of your edge. I would do all around to avoid steps on corners...

[Challenger604]

Taking the base off is NOT going to happen. :eek: I am going to order a 30 degree router bit and I have figured out how to use it without any problems of tipping the router.


Here is the demolition! LOL!

http://www.holgerbarske.com/page/5/

[quindecima]

Not the way I am going to do it but Nice turntable!

[quindecima]

Another day in my so called wood shop. I thought I would take a few pics. I got the interios and baffle fronts done yesterday and today. I couldn't find any into on the angle for the uprights on the grill fronts so I just too a guess and used 5 degrees, anything else looked too much of an angle. Now for some sanding, paint, veneer and install my networks that are being done by one of the members here and I will be styling. I would say next weekend.

[quindecima]

I just got done putting all my saws and tools away sweeping, blowing and cleaning up the garage. Moved the wife's car in and was admiring my work and saw that I had forgotten to attach the piece across the middle of the front of the grills. :( Oh well, tomorrow is another day.

[Challenger604]

I just got done putting all my saws and tools away sweeping, blowing and cleaning up the garage. Moved the wife's car in and was admiring my work and saw that I had forgotten to attach the piece across the middle of the front of the grills. :( Oh well, tomorrow is another day.


Very nice! Congrat! Getting closer!!

[quindecima]

Todays progress. I primed and painted the backs and the fronts, install most of the batting and made the supports for the 2425J's. :bouncy: I'm not happy with the blue but they said they made it a to the code I gave them. Am I going to cry, Hell no, these aren't original JBL's and I am more interested in how they sound.

[Challenger604]

Todays progress. I primed and painted the backs and the fronts, install most of the batting and made the supports for the 2425J's. :bouncy: I'm not happy with the blue but they said they made it a to the code I gave them. Am I going to cry, Hell no, these aren't original JBL's and I am more interested in how they sound.


Do you want the code of mine? It's from Home Depot. Few were very happy!
c

[quindecima]

RAL 5007 is the same wherever you go it's all in their paint computers. It looks a lot better this morning in the light than it did last night!

[Challenger604]

RAL 5007 is the same wherever you go it's all in their paint computers. It looks a lot better this morning in the light than it did last night!

Yes! You have a big difference between day and night lights!
But in case here it is!

[quindecima]

Today I have gotten the Walnut veneer installed, I picked up gelcoat contact cement by mistake but it turned out to be pretty nice to use, you have to remember to put 2 coats on the plywood. I used paper back veneer. I'm off to the hardwood store to get some Walnut trim.

[quindecima]

I have the trim on, glued, brad nailed, 30 degrees. I am styling now. a little counter sinking and some Walnut fill, I bought a 50 gallon drum just in case. some sanding and the finish. some touch up on the paint where the finish router bit touched the paint and I will be done except to install the drivers & Network. Whoops, I forgot I have to spray the grills and order the grill cloth.

[Challenger604]

[QUOTE=quindecima;386290]Today I have gotten the Walnut veneer installed, I picked up gelcoat contact cement by mistake but it turned out to be pretty nice to use, you have to remember to put 2 coats on the plywood. I used paper back veneer. I'm off to the hardwood store to get some Walnut trim.[/QUOTE


Perfect!! You did the exactly the right thing!
C

[BMWCCA]

:applaud:You're doing one heck of a nice job! Can't wait to hear what you think of them.

[quindecima]

There is more than meets the eye in building a pair of these. I have 5 + full days spent and that does not count the assembly of the sides. There is a lot of work into these and a lot of it is pretty precise stuff. I'm going to pour some more BV and fire up a Cohiba (Cuban).

[quindecima]

Got the first coat of finish on today. I'm going to use two coats of gloss poly and one coat of Satin.

[Challenger604]

Got the first coat of finish on today. I'm going to use two coats of gloss poly and one coat of Satin.
Very nice!

[Amnes]

Lookin good.

[NWCgrad]

Nice work!

[quindecima]

I'm done! I just have to mount the drivers and hook up the network which unfortunately I don't have yet otherwise I would be listening to some Chicken Shack, Jefferson Starship and Spanish Guitar by Carlos Montoya. I painted the back a tan, the same color as my walls. I don't know how that is going to work out but easily changed.

[Earl K]

Fabulous !

:)

[quindecima]

I just opened the MA15 kit to mount the woofers and am not that enthralled with them. First the screws are way too long and drilling a hole and sucking the pronged backs into the plywood isn't my idea of neat. I'm thinking of cutting the bolts off and installing inserts instead. Has anybody done that?

[Challenger604]

I just opened the MA15 kit to mount the woofers and am not that enthralled with them. First the screws are way too long and drilling a hole and sucking the pronged backs into the plywood isn't my idea of neat. I'm thinking of cutting the bolts off and installing inserts instead. Has anybody done that?

You should not care about the length of the screws! Did you get cork gasket though?

[quindecima]

Yes, I have the gaskets. Mostly I don't like the pronged inserts.

[Challenger604]

Yes, I have the gaskets. Mostly I don't like the pronged inserts.

Isn't it the way it's supposed to be?

[quindecima]

Yes, that's what JBL used but I don't care for them. I guess I'll use them anyway. :crying:

[Ed Zeppeli]

Yes, they dig into the fascia a little but luckily they always cover them up as well. The only time you should see them is the driver is out.

Just make sure you place them nicely the first time you torque down on the screws so that you don't end up with multiple scars.


Warren

[speakerdave]

I think its worthwhile to pre-torque the T-nuts into place using a couple of washers and a small piece of solid wood with the edges softened and maybe even something between the wood and your nice new baffle to prevent marring. Use a dab of flexible glue to hold the T-nuts in their final position so they cannot accidentally become dislodged. This is less important when using the clamps, but I found it very worthwhile when mounting the squircle style woofers.

[srm51555]

These look great.

[quindecima]

I took SPEAKERDAVES advice I drilled the holes and then on the back drilled 1/4 deep with a drill bit just a bit smaller than the nut shank. I then drilled a clearance hole in a 1x3 and put the mounting bolt thru that and sucked the nuts in thereby leaving no marks on the baffle. Next time I am going to install captured nuts. sucking those puppies in needs a big Phillips. :(

[quindecima]

So I grab mu foilcals and head over to mount those puppies up.......WTH one hole on each side is off enough to make it look like poo poo when mounted. What to do? I look thru my stuff and find some small dowelling from a previous job and head over to the drill cabinet and find a drill that is within a few thou. of the diameter and drill out the offending hole. I then cut the dowelling and Titebond the crap out of it and tap it into place. When it's dry I will redrill and be O.K. A man has to rise to the occasion. :eek:

[Altec Best]

I just love these build threads ! :D Great Job on the build, very nice ! :applaud:

Looking forward to when you get all the components installed and thumping ! :bouncy:

[quindecima]

Done with grills.

[speakerdave]

Lookin' store-bought, dude!

[quindecima]

Well, The corners did not turn out as well as I wanted. I couldn't figure out how to pull it up and not have a giant bunch at the top without cutting. It irks me to no end.

[quindecima]

No more pics until I get my networks. Everything is done until then.

[rbnjr]

Cabs 95% done, only have to cut the backs, bracing and install batting. I made two mistakes. The driver above the mid is off by 3/8in from center, so is the other speaker. I think I measured wrong (no kidding) and didn't allow for the trim at least they are the same on each one. The bottom bracing is also off, not e4nough reveal in the front and I didn't notice until I set the base on it. It was already glued and screwed and I wasn't about to take it apart 2 days later, I will compensate for that with a 1in.x3/4 Walnut trim.

If this pair do not meet your quality standards i will be happy to buy them from you for what you have into them.. my favorite speaker.

cheers!

[quindecima]

I have pretty much gotten over my mistakes and as soon as I get the networks installed I'm going to be a happy camper.

[gibber]

... There is a lot of work into these and a lot of it is pretty precise stuff. I'm going to pour some more BV and fire up a Cohiba (Cuban).

This sounds so much of a "forbidden fruit" comment from a secluded dictatorship country.
Sure Your'e not referring to something equivalent of "...exchange of body fluids (sex)" here ?

That said, keep up the fantastic work, it sure looks great; considered some 2243 for bass duty in this one?
Not all has to be 1:1 (i'd think) when doing replica stuff with hindsight (and knowledge what came after)

Best of success
Ralph

[quindecima]

Good news!!!!!!! I will have the networks by the end of next week :bouncy: :bouncy: I am going to head out to the local electronics store for some hook up wire for the speakers and L pads. I will post new pics probably next weekend.

[Challenger604]

Good news!!!!!!! I will have the networks by the end of next week :bouncy: :bouncy: I am going to head out to the local electronics store for some hook up wire for the speakers and L pads. I will post new pics probably next weekend.


Oh no please don't! Just kidding!
Have fun shopping!
C

[quindecima]

I found some nice supple #14 in Red and a Green with a White stripe I am going to use.

[Challenger604]

I found some nice supple #14 in Red and a Green with a White stripe I am going to use.

Any pix?

[quindecima]

Yep. nice stuff .30c a foot

[Challenger604]

Yep. nice stuff .30c a foot

Oh yeah! Pretty cool!

[quindecima]

Instead of twisting it together I have waxed 6 cord and am going to tie it like used to be done in the old radios, I have done that before and it looks pretty swift. I'll post a pic when I start loading the cabs.

[quindecima]

This is how you tie wire together. Anything else indicates a total lack of commitment on the part of the assembler he he. :eek:

[Challenger604]

This is how you tie wire together. Anything else indicates a total lack of commitment on the part of the assembler he he. :eek:
I hope it's just plastic!
that's gonna look good!
C

[quindecima]

Nope, it's waxed nylon 6 cord. I used it when I was into skydiving for rigging on my parachutes.

[Challenger604]

Nope, it's waxed nylon 6 cord. I used it when I was into skydiving for rigging on my parachutes.

Oh cool! I see what you mean!

[quindecima]

I received the networks I ordered today and am working on assembling them. The quality is underated to say the least, these are works of art and well worth the wait.

BTW I had no idea they were so involved

[quindecima]

I have one finished.

[quindecima]

O.K. I'm finally done. They are bitchin sounding, I regulated the L100's for the TV. It's been a long journey to get them done but it was worth it. There are some imperfections in the cabs, ie... I couldn't figure how to get the corners of the grill cloth pulled up without it bunching up but I finally figured out how to do it (too late) The HF is 3/8 too far to the side as a result of not using the same measuring point but they are both the same so it looks O.K., The base it too far forward but not noticeable unless you are looking. I should have used the speaker center point for the speaker bolt holes and marked them before I cut out the holes. These are minor imperfections that will be addressed on my next pair. My opening album was "The Best of The Doors" at obscene listening levels :bouncy:

[Challenger604]

O.K. I'm finally done. They are bitchin sounding, I regulated the L100's for the TV. It's been a long journey to get them done but it was worth it. There are some imperfections in the cabs, ie... I couldn't figure how to get the corners of the grill cloth pulled up without it bunching up but I finally figured out how to do it (too late) The HF is 3/8 too far to the side as a result of not using the same measuring point but they are both the same so it looks O.K., The base it too far forward but not noticeable unless you are looking. I should have used the speaker center point for the speaker bolt holes and marked them before I cut out the holes. These are minor imperfections that will be addressed on my next pair. :bouncy:


Congratulation Larry!
We don't see anything from here!!
Good work man!!
C

[Krunchy]

Agreed, they look very nice indeed, great job. :applaud: Enjoy !

[quindecima]

I am using Adcom GFA555ii's but I don't think 200 watts per side is enough for these Dudes.

[Wagner]

Where did you get the networks?

Lovely job, just stop talking "mistakes", no such thing with hand built custom cabinet work.............

They are in production/creation changes of which you reserve the right to make

Very nice, I would like to have something that fine

Thomas

[Challenger604]

Where did you get the networks?

Lovely job, just stop talking "mistakes", no such thing with hand built custom cabinet work.............

They are in production/creation changes of which you reserve the right to make

Very nice, I would like to have something that fine

Thomas

Right on!

[Mr. Widget]

O.K. I'm finally done.Congratulations! Well done!


Widget

[focalguy]

Larry, I too have just finished my 4345 build but I have gone the full active crossover route again ... using the new dbx 360 venu..it just awesome...you have to experience it .. passive is old tech that audiophiles cant get let go...yes its a bit more involved but active embraces the dsp, digital world..Remember gents the M2's that everybody wants..... they are active.





720887208972090
O.K. I'm finally done. They are bitchin sounding, I regulated the L100's for the TV. It's been a long journey to get them done but it was worth it. There are some imperfections in the cabs, ie... I couldn't figure how to get the corners of the grill cloth pulled up without it bunching up but I finally figured out how to do it (too late) The HF is 3/8 too far to the side as a result of not using the same measuring point but they are both the same so it looks O.K., The base it too far forward but not noticeable unless you are looking. I should have used the speaker center point for the speaker bolt holes and marked them before I cut out the holes. These are minor imperfections that will be addressed on my next pair. My opening album was "The Best of The Doors" at obscene listening levels :bouncy:

[Krunchy]

NIce job, they look great, go enjoy the heck out of them.

[DES-1]

Larry, I too have just finished my 4345 build but I have gone the full active crossover route again ... using the new dbx 360 venu..it just awesome...you have to experience it .. passive is old tech that audiophiles cant get let go...yes its a bit more involved but active embraces the dsp, digital world..Remember gents the M2's that everybody wants..... they are active.




Very nice - please consider posting a thread about your active 4345 setup. Thanks for the pic of the rear panel, full active is the route I hope to go.

[NWCgrad]

Larry, I too have just finished my 4345 build but I have gone the full active crossover route again ... using the new dbx 360 venu..it just awesome...you have to experience it .. passive is old tech that audiophiles cant get let go...yes its a bit more involved but active embraces the dsp, digital world..

This is nice to read, I am leaning towards the Venu360 for a big build scheduled in the next year or so. Likely to be a 4345-inspired (not a clone due to expense and difficulty of obtaining original drivers) speaker system.

[Challenger604]

This is nice to read, I am leaning towards the Venu360 for a big build scheduled in the next year or so. Likely to be a 4345-inspired (not a clone due to expense and difficulty of obtaining original drivers) speaker system.

Not too difficult to find parts...

[focalguy]

This is nice to read, I am leaning towards the Venu360 for a big build scheduled in the next year or so. Likely to be a 4345-inspired (not a clone due to expense and difficulty of obtaining original drivers) speaker system.

I will be trying the venu 360... a dealer here has one that has a faulty screen but i will be using the Mac or ipad so it doesnt matter. i will let you know how it goes or sounds. cheers

[NWCgrad]

I will be trying the venu 360... a dealer here has one that has a faulty screen but i will be using the Mac or ipad so it doesnt matter. i will let you know how it goes or sounds. cheers

That's really cool news!

[focalguy]

Well gents just configured the DBX venu 360 and the results are spectacular ! the auto eq feature has made this the only way to go. Throw the passive xovers away! I can change anything on the fly... xover points, slopes, polarity, room eq etc... you just keep tweeking your build. Definitely the best money i have spent on this hobby thus far.

I have used it as a 3way stereo xover configuration ...2x6 and plugged the last two outputs into a behringer to take care of the lows.. ie.. the 10 and 18. The wizard takes care of it all.. gain, levels etc..7259772598. Imaging is great , the sound floor is super quiet. The RTA mic takes 4 measurements in the room and the processor does its thing. And the best thing... I do it all on my Mac Air or Ipad. My dac runs directly into the DBX.

cheers,

[focalguy]

72599
The CNC lenses where tough to make but i think they turned out well, cut enough for 3 sets for all my 43xx.

[1audiohack]

Super cool!

Barry.

[berga12]

so you have an 8ch amp or you have some hidden amp?

I also would like to try this DBX and maybe keep Tubes and passive just for the MF and UHF

with USB connection he is working as a DAC? you also use in Analog with double conversion?

[NWCgrad]

Great reading that the DBX worked so well. I currently have a Peavey VSX 26, which serves its purpose but will be moved to subwoofer duty once I get the DBX unit next year.:bouncy:

[boputnam]

Well gents just configured the DBX venu 360 and the results are spectacular ! the auto eq feature has made this the only way to go. Certainly a step-up from that Behringer unit there. But, I'm wary of anything "auto"... :eek:

Did you do one side at a time?
Can you post screenshots of the before and after settings?
Were there any adjustments made for phase?

:skeptical:

[srm51555]

Nice rc cars on the shelves:)

[ARMED]

this makes me want to start building my own set....like soon.....
thats beautiful:applaud::applaud:

[pioneer]

72599
The CNC lenses where tough to make but i think they turned out well, cut enough for 3 sets for all my 43xx.

Lenses look great!!!
how did you attach them to the 4345?

[BMWCCA]

The wood lenses on my 4345 clones are attached with Velcro, though i did have to us a staple at either end of the strip on the baffle to keep the Velcro from pulling away. The self-adhesive glue wasn't enough for the weight.
:thmbsup:

[berga12]

Someone sell walnut lenses?

[BMWCCA]

My wooden lenses were supposedly made in Japan for Kenrick. They came to the previous owner with the Kenrick cabinets. At one point they had them listed on their website.

I believe Heather got a pair from the same folks who were making the L100 foam grille reproductions at one point. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?25864-Looky-what-I-just-got-Walnut-lenses-for-my-horns

I found this in a Google search, not a recommendation: http://dreamsound.biz/lenses.html

More, mostly out of date, information and some pretty pictures here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?8635-2308-Lens/page3

[focalguy]

Did you do one side at a time?
Can you post screenshots of the before and after settings?
Were there any adjustments made for phase?

the autoeq was done all at once for all the drivers. I set the gain using pink noise to match the lowest efficiency driver .. the 18 at 95db. Set the gain for each channel with a db meter at 1khz at 95 db. Then just hit the auto eq and it was done. Have not had a chance to check the phasing but it sounds much much better than the behringer. The imaging is awesome. I have a friend coming with a sound analyzer to look at phase timing etc... it is a $22k sound analyzer, figured i would let him find the flaws.
Thus far no disappointments.

yes , I collect vintage R/c cars.. those are Kyosho Optima Series from the 80's. I have the entire series with tons of NIB stock.

[focalguy]

Lenses look great!!!
how did you attach them to the 4345?

The Lenses have velcro on the back attached onto the wet silicone bead during the assembly process.

[lordoflight]

Can you explain how you connect the DBX to the speakers? Do you use 2 DBX and how many amplifiers? I imagine 8 channel amplifier? And the TWO DBX are connected to each other ? How do you feed the signal?
A schematic would be great!

Thank you.

[boputnam]

A schematic would be great!You can get a schematic (block diagram) from JBL, but you don't need that. What you (and we ;)) need is your signal path. It seems you are running 4-way stereo?

The DriveRack VENUE360 is 3 In, 6 Out. So, er, uh, yes - you will need two. :eek:

Without knowing your signal path, you will need to Y the L/R inputs into each DriveRack VENUE360.
Unit 1 DriveRack VENUE360 will provide (2x) LF, MF and HF
Unit 2 DriveRack VENUE360 will provide (2x) UHF

The reason I'd do it that way, it expecting you can copy and paste settings (L to R) for each pass band within each unit.

But hell - just step-up and get a proper DSP - the xta DP448 (http://www.audiocore.co.uk/products/4-series/) could do this in a cinch, and it sounds amazing... You've spent so much getting into orbit, why skimp on the quality of the DACs and filters. :dont-know: The xta software is free, and incredibly powerful. I use it every show, every where. My goal in life is to bypass every Galileo I come across (and yes, I carry their Compass software on my laptop too, but there is no comparison in my book).

[focalguy]

You can get a schematic (block diagram) from JBL, but you don't need that. What you (and we ;)) need is your signal path. It seems you are running 4-way stereo?

The DriveRack VENUE360 is 3 In, 6 Out. So, er, uh, yes - you will need two. :eek:

Without knowing your signal path, you will need to Y the L/R inputs into each DriveRack VENUE360.
Unit 1 DriveRack VENUE360 will provide (2x) LF, MF and HF
Unit 2 DriveRack VENUE360 will provide (2x) UHF

The reason I'd do it that way, it expecting you can copy and paste settings (L to R) for each pass band within each unit.

But hell - just step-up and get a proper DSP - the xta DP448 (http://www.audiocore.co.uk/products/4-series/) could do this in a cinch, and it sounds amazing... You've spent so much getting into orbit, why skimp on the quality of the DACs and filters. :dont-know: The xta software is free, and incredibly powerful. I use it every show, every where. My goal in life is to bypass every Galileo I come across (and yes, I carry their Compass software on my laptop too, but there is no comparison in my book).

hello all,
the signal goes from my MacAir into the dac ... XLR to the NAD m3 and then to the dbx.... output 1,2 is the HIGHs 3,4 is the horns.... 5,6 is fed to the behringer dcx 2496 ( which takes care of the 10 and 18. this way the dbx can use the auto eq for all 8 channels and set the levels .
It cost me nothing to get into orbit... hobby feeds itself. Its just fun trying new things.... where would we all be if we stopped trying new setups , amps, dacs, speakers etc... its the nature of the hobby..... does the xta dp448 have the ability to be controlled by an ipad and autoeq?

[ARMED]

Can you explain how you connect the DBX to the speakers? Do you use 2 DBX and how many amplifiers? I imagine 8 channel amplifier? And the TWO DBX are connected to each other ? How do you feed the signal?
A schematic would be great!

Thank you.yeah this would be great, im the visual type of guy :).....

[toddalin]

My wooden lenses were supposedly made in Japan for Kenrick. They came to the previous owner with the Kenrick cabinets. At one point they had them listed on their website.




Have you ever had the occasion to compare (A/B) the wooden lenses to the stock plastic lenses? Obviously wood is thicker and blocks more of the opening than the plastic, but is more rigid. And you have fewer plates.

I can just as easily cut wooden lenses as I can acrylic lenses on the laser. ;)

Also, I was concerned that my test lenses would be 1/8" rather than 1/16" thick, like the stock pieces, and what I am ultimately shooting for. But the Kendric plastic lenses also appear to be 1/8" and the wooden lenses are even thickerer. And, I was a bit concerned about the shape of my plates, but I see shapes "all over the map."

[grumpy]

the kenrick -plastic- lens plates are thin (like JBL 2308).

Seems like one would want to go as this as possible until stability(warping) or resonance ruined the party.
Both were addressed somewhat with the inter-plate touch points or with thin wood strips (older jbl).
The self-damping of wood or plastic seems like a good idea (vs metal, ala mccauley).

[Ian Mackenzie]

As long has the material does not resonate l think wood versus plastic is cosmetic

If someone can measure and compare no lens, wood and plastic that would provide some fact otherwise you are listening with your eyes.

Our friend in Romania has some metal lens made just like the JBL lens.

My own view is dusting makes a difference (damps the live nature of these systems) and the Tad 2002 makes a big improvement in clarity and transparency.

Ken messed a lot with the DEQX. The latest models are far better than the early production models.

I would take Bo's lead on the digital way.

[BMWCCA]

Have you ever had the occasion to compare (A/B) the wooden lenses to the stock plastic lenses?

I have not. I've never owned the stock plastic lenses.

The provenance of my 4345 "clones" is cabinets from Rick (KenRick) to NoRealTalent (Dave Katz) who installed the NOS and rebuilt drivers and CC crossovers, then to New Zenith who dabbled in beryllium, then to me with "stock" drivers.
:dont-know:

[toddalin]

the kenrick -plastic- lens plates are thin (like JBL 2308).

Seems like one would want to go as this as possible until stability(warping) or resonance ruined the party.
Both were addressed somewhat with the inter-plate touch points or with thin wood strips (older jbl).
The self-damping of wood or plastic seems like a good idea (vs metal, ala mccauley).

No, I don't think so. This does not look to be as thin as the JBL offering. Note the rough texture of the edge, indicating ABS sheeting whereas the JBL edges are smooth. In fact, there are only 10 plates here and JBL uses 11.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=14824&stc=1&d=1144812878

[ARMED]

do you mind sharing the CNC program for the lenses? Id like to try it...:)

[toddalin]

I didn't do it in CNC (G-code).

I did the 3D renderings in DesignSpark Mechanical because I wanted to do this on the 3D printer. DesignSpark generates STL (3D), PDF, and Autocad DRW files. But the laser doesn't read 3D files. So, I select a 2D view and output a drawing file of that profile and save it.

The laser runs raster-based and vector-based programs. But all cutting requires vector-based programs. For example, you can do a graphic, but not cut using Photoshop, which is raster-based. So I have to import the drawing file into a program (Inkscape), often cleaning up superflous lines, and save the file as a SVG (vector) file.

The Corel Draw program drives the laser and can read the SVG file to cut the pattern once I import it, scale it, and position it.

[grumpy]

Hmm... That doesn't look -at all- like my kenrick lenses. I'll check when I get home re thickness. Perhaps there was a redesign after the initial run. Not that it matters much, just curious.

[grumpy]

So... different mfg runs on a design iteration, perhaps.
I know the reject rate on the initial run (warped plates) was high... (years ago!)
thicker plates may have been their solution.
72895

[toddalin]

Or..., maybe these aren't Kendrick, even those that's what the post said they were.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=14824&stc=1&d=1144812878

[grumpy]

Ah. Those were the Image Communications product... Model L-10 or 11. Makes more sense now :)

[BMWCCA]

On Kenrick's web page and on Ebay theirs have 11 plates:

http://www.jbl43.net/img/lenses1.jpg

[ivica]

do you mind sharing the CNC program for the lenses? Id like to try it...:)
Hi ARMED,

May be this file can help.

regards
ivica

[toddalin]

Hi ARMED,

May be this file can help.

regards
ivica

"By measurement, the plates are 1/16" thick and spaced 1/4" apart."





It's not right. 11 x 1/16" = 11/16" + 10 x 0.25" = 2.5" + 11/16" = 3.1875"

But the plate actually spans 3.85".

[ivica]

It's not right. 11 x 1/16" = 11/16" + 10 x 0.25" = 2.5" + 11/16" = 3.1875"

But the plate actually spans 3.85".

Hi toddalin,

Yes, but not to forget that , the angle of ABOUT 38 deg has to be included, as 1/cos(38) = 1.269,
so if can be said that (1/16+4/16)*10*1.269 = 3.96", may be 1/16" thickness or 1/4 spacing is not
absolute precise but it is very near the JBL 2308 lenses size.
If You want to be more precise, may be the thickness can be reduced from 1/16" to 1/20"
then it can be get:

(11* 1/20 + 10* 1/4)*1.269 = 3.87"

regards
ivica

[toddalin]

Makes sense.

I guess when one consideres the angle, that my spacing is actually closer together than I thought it was. I figured at ~0.35" vertical spacing (with 1/16" plates) it is good to beyond 19kHz but tighter spacing takes it out past 20kHZ, as if an 075 could go that high.

[ARMED]

I got these in the mail today, we are moving along nicelydo you mind sharing where you got these from?:D

[quindecima]

Those came from the Sign-Shop on Ebay. Expensive but the only source I know of.

[toddalin]

There is a pair of originals for $250 on the bay.

[richluvsound]

No, I don't think so. This does not look to be as thin as the JBL offering. Note the rough texture of the edge, indicating ABS sheeting whereas the JBL edges are smooth. In fact, there are only 10 plates here and JBL uses 11.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=14824&stc=1&d=1144812878
These are not like any Kenrick lenses I've ever seen , and I had a few pairs from him . Kenricks are exact copies of the originals .

[BMWCCA]

There is a pair of originals for $250 on the bay.

Hopefully you're referring to lenses, not knobs!

[toddalin]

Yes a pair of lenses for $250/OBO.

[grumpy]

These are not like any Kenrick lenses I've ever seen , and I had a few pairs from him . Kenricks are exact copies of the originals .

Right. Sorted out a page back. :)

[ARMED]

Those came from the Sign-Shop on Ebay. Expensive but the only source I know of.what are the diameters of the knobs..? will the ebay knobs work? or how big are the holes on the foilcal?

[quindecima]

You need to get your plans out and thoroughly read them to ascertain the correct building procedure for your speakers. All dimensions are listed in the plan details and everything fits as it should. If there were any problems with parts not fitting I guarantee you there would be a long thread about it on the forum.

Why did you shelve the 4333 build for one that has components that are extremely expensive/not obtainable? ie..2121, very difficult to come by, 2420, also hard to come by and expensive 2231A, I haven't seen one of those in a while and then you have to duplicate the 3143 network. This is you first major build right? Not to discourage you but I would have given more thought to easier to find components. 4-ways are nice but there is nothing bad about a 4333.

[richluvsound]

Right. Sorted out a page back. :)


Thanks Grumpy :D

[ARMED]

You need to get your plans out and thoroughly read them to ascertain the correct building procedure for your speakers. All dimensions are listed in the plan details and everything fits as it should. If there were any problems with parts not fitting I guarantee you there would be a long thread about it on the forum.

Why did you shelve the 4333 build for one that has components that are extremely expensive/not obtainable? ie..2121, very difficult to come by, 2420, also hard to come by and expensive 2231A, I haven't seen one of those in a while and then you have to duplicate the 3143 network. This is you first major build right? Not to discourage you but I would have given more thought to easier to find components. 4-ways are nice but there is nothing bad about a 4333.to save time and money...

[quindecima]

O.K., lets delve into this a little bit......it's not going to take you any longer to make up the 4333 cabs vs the 4343 cabs so time can't be a factor. 4333 networks are a lot easier to build vs the 3143 needed, so how is that proceeding? Have you got the 2131A's or the 136 equivalent? How about the 2121?, I'll bet you don't have those yet and then there are the 2420's, how are you saving money? I know you want to get into a high end pair of JBL's but I think you are starting with the hammer at half cock. If you want 4 ways why not go with the 4345's, I know you have the 2405's and 2123's the rest are pretty easy to come by and you could cross with a Ashly unit. I am trying to help you out here with a viable solution that will not end up costing you BIG bucks and a lot of frustration.