Turntables , Vinyl , Welcome back!

[SEAWOLF97]

same arm (but a 3009/3) , you are paying $900 extra to go with the Linn over a Rega Planar 3 ?

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4529064689.html

[macaroonie]

same arm (but a 3009/3) , you are paying $900 extra to go with the Linn over a Rega Planar 3 ?

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4529064689.html

And rightly so. Rega is no more than a slab of particle board with a plastic hub and a glass platter. No suspension worth talking of. It's about the least , sparest design you could come up with to get a record spinning.
Rega does at last have some new decks with some sensible desin ideas in them , twenty years late.
Me no a fan !!

[Mr. Widget]

My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300. It has the best suspension of any table I've ever owned. You can tap violently on the plinth and virtually no sound comes through the system. I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

I've never been able to make my Denon DP-60L skip, nor the double sprung Pioneer PL-530 , and I've really tried.

Just not getting the obsession with the Linn/SME . Some jazz fan in japan recommends it , there are just so many variables in this equation (gear, room, source, etc.). I'll bet that combo can be made to sound terrible in the wrong environment.

"Knowing" Mac , I'd be inclined to further investigate that Oracle Alexandria.

here's another interesting TT, tho not a Linn

http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4535170444.html

(http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/ele/4535170444.html)

[pyonc]

Some jazz fan in japan recommends it.


Yea, that's why I've been looking for it as an avid jazz listener myself for very long.
Lots of serious jazz fans there, including owner of Japan's most famous jazz club Basie, love this combo.
As it's very hard to find one, though, I'm turning to Linn/Ittok combo...

[pyonc]

My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300. It has the best suspension of any table I've ever owned. You can tap violently on the plinth and virtually no sound comes through the system. I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.


Widget

Beautiful TT! I see one in nice condition on ebay. Shipping is very expensive..

[pyonc]

And rightly so. Rega is no more than a slab of particle board with a plastic hub and a glass platter. No suspension worth talking of. It's about the least , sparest design you could come up with to get a record spinning.
Rega does at last have some new decks with some sensible desin ideas in them , twenty years late.
Me no a fan !!

Hi Mac,

Thanks a lot for your insight on Linn turntables.
I think many in this Forum including me have come to learn useful things from you through this thread. :applaud:
If you look at the product history of Linn, there were numerous upgrades and changes for the past 50 years.
I see Linn serial numbers in particular are directly related to upgrades and changes.
So, it's hard to find which is better than which, unless one is a specialist like you or very knowledgeable.
For those looking for a Linn turntable, would you recommend some useful points when they buy one?
Personally, I'm very interested in which serial number zone, say 70,000 to 80,000, you think is the best possible choice, given all the upgrades and changes.

[macaroonie]

Hi all , this is a split from the thread in the general marketplace. I've had the Boss open up this as a separate thread to allow a more open and full discussion of turntables , vinyl and so on.

We have been talking about variants of Linn LP12 , I'll do a summary of that soon but feel free to pitch in impressions of others as you see fit.

Later on I have a wee project in mind that might fly , or not depending on the interest from the community.

[pyonc]

Hi all , this is a split from the thread in the general marketplace. I've had the Boss open up this as a separate thread to allow a more open and full discussion of turntables , vinyl and so on.

We have been talking about variants of Linn LP12 , I'll do a summary of that soon but feel free to pitch in impressions of others as you see fit.

Later on I have a wee project in mind that might fly , or not depending on the interest from the community.

I'm delighted to find this new exciting thread on turntables.
Personally I've used Linn with BasikPlus, Thorens TD160, and Technics SL-D2.
And these are some of the questions that I have had cor long:

1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
3. Is there any turntable more appropriate for particular music such as jazz, pop and classic?
4. Do expensive cartridges and stylus really matter for better sound?
5. Which type sounds better in playing jazz records, MM or MC?
6. Just like amplifiers have S/N ratio, do turntables have it?
If so, what's the turntable with highest S/N?
7. What's the dominant factor that affects the true fidelity of sound reproduction on turntables?

Any thoughts on these points, Mac?

[SEAWOLF97]

1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?



1. sometimes, NOT always. many many threads on this topic available.
2, depends on a lot of factors ..Thorens legendary ? Have gone through 3 or 4, no keepers, some newish ones are made in Poland (after '93).

You can find a thousand different answers to these questions. Mac is by far the most knowledgeable on this forum, and I take his advice often, but have disagreed and been correct very occasionally. (but again, it's all about perceptions)

as for using certain carts with certain arms, my TT has solved this by supplying 2 interchangeable arms, straight & "S"

>>The DP-60L has a head shell integrated into the arm tube, with its connector portion located at the base of the tube. The tube is a replaceable S-shaped arm tube with standard 4P connector.
By replacing the low mass arm tube with the S-shaped tube, virtually all head shells or integrated cartridges can be utilised.
By having the ability to use the widest selection of cartridges, your audio enjoyment will be significantly broadened.


If you are going to spend a lot on a TT, do your homework , find out all you can in advance. These are moving mechanical devices and each wears out in particular areas.

As for a Japanese jazz club owner with a TT that he likes, so you must get one:
There are many fine TT's/cartridges made in Japan that may be superior.
I've traveled a lot in Asia and found it's very stylish to have US/Euro gear, especially if you are publicly showing it off. And conversely, not so "in" to have domestic equipment. Where is JBL's biggest customers for their high end products ?

There are lots of good forums on the web. Try http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml


(http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml)

[4313B]

My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300.Ok, I'm impressed. :yes: One of my all time favorites.
I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.Those loudspeakers aren't bad either! ;)

[macaroonie]

Quickly :

1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
Generally yes if the front end is mid fi or better. CD was such a compromise when digital sound was in it's infancy , it has never moved on since that day ( 1983 ) despite there being a huge increase in data handling available to designers.

2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
Not necessarily. Nowt wrong with VPI and Technics have made some classics

3. Is there any turntable more appropriate for particular music such as jazz, pop and classic?
Nope

4. Do expensive cartridges and stylus really matter for better sound?
Generally yes if adjusted correctly

5. Which type sounds better in playing jazz records, MM or MC?
IMO MC but not always.

6. Just like amplifiers have S/N ratio, do turntables have it?
Yes , a combination of electronic noise , hum and hiss , plus any mechanical input from the deck plus suface noise from the disc. Depends how you want to quantify it.

If so, what's the turntable with highest S/N?
SME , Teres etc Practically no mechanical noise at all. The rest is down to the arm and cartridge.

7. What's the dominant factor that affects the true fidelity of sound reproduction on turntables?
Price probably

[macaroonie]

Ok, I'm impressed. :yes: One of my all time favorites.Those loudspeakers aren't bad either! ;)

Indeed , that Luxman and other Micro Seiki decks addressed many of the desirable design points very well indeed. The vac system is very effective and there is a significant isolation system built in too.
Lovely construction.

They were very pricey in the UK

[pyonc]

Quickly :

1. As they say, does vinyl sound better than CD? If so, why?
Generally yes if the front end is mid fi or better. CD was such a compromise when digital sound was in it's infancy , it has never moved on since that day ( 1983 ) despite there being a huge increase in data handling available to designers.

2. Do legendary turntables like Linn and Thorens necessarily sound better than other brands, say, VPI or Technics?
Not necessarily. Nowt wrong with VPI and Technics have made some classics

3. Is there any turntable more appropriate for particular music such as jazz, pop and classic?
Nope

4. Do expensive cartridges and stylus really matter for better sound?
Generally yes if adjusted correctly

5. Which type sounds better in playing jazz records, MM or MC?
IMO MC but not always.

6. Just like amplifiers have S/N ratio, do turntables have it?
Yes , a combination of electronic noise , hum and hiss , plus any mechanical input from the deck plus suface noise from the disc. Depends how you want to quantify it.

If so, what's the turntable with highest S/N?
SME , Teres etc Practically no mechanical noise at all. The rest is down to the arm and cartridge.

7. What's the dominant factor that affects the true fidelity of sound reproduction on turntables?
Price probably

Thanks for your clear-cut answers! Re #7, I see price tags for some high-end TTs well over tens of thousands dollars, also some cartridges well over several thousands dollars. As I've never listened to them in person, I have no way of comparing them with legendary but affordable TT such as Linn Sondek LP12 and Thorens TD124. What do you think is the main difference between such expensive TTs and other brands, except for the production material?

[pyonc]

As for a Japanese jazz club owner with a TT that he likes, so you must get one:
There are many fine TT's/cartridges made in Japan that may be superior.
I've traveled a lot in Asia and found it's very stylish to have US/Euro gear, especially if you are publicly showing it off. And conversely, not so "in" to have domestic equipment. Where is JBL's biggest customers for their high end products ?

There are lots of good forums on the web. Try http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml


(http://www.vinylengine.com/library.shtml)

Thanks. Yea, I'm trying very hard to get one, but it looks like an almost impossible job.
I was almost done by a scammer after placing an ad for Linn with SME3009 on Canuck the other day.
Without the timely intervention of macaroonie, our forum member here, I would have lost $1,500 for his scam item!
I see some Linn ads out still there, but stayed away from them since then.

[hjames]

Yea, I'm trying very hard to get one, but it looks like an almost impossible job.
I was almost to have been done by a scammer after placing an ad for Linn with SME3009 on Canuck the other day.
I didn't know innocent users like me on Canuck was vulnerable to so many scams like that!

There are lots of folks on the web that will sell you almost anything you wish to buy - and if you tell them what you want it gets even worse.
be careful - you have very specific ideas of what you want, be they JBL Energizer amps or Linn Turntables or ...
You have to be more careful, especially if you have a wad of money ...

Internet scammers like wads of money!

[pyonc]

There are lots of folks on the web that will sell you almost anything you wish to buy - and if you tell them what you want it gets even worse.
be careful - you have very specific ideas of what you want, be they JBL Energizer amps or Linn Turntables or ...
You have to be more careful, especially if you have a wad of money ...

Internet scammers like wads of money!
Yea, internet scammers even in this audio market! Beware of them on the popular Canuck audio mart. Their favorite online bank seems to be Western Union. The scammer who tried to dupe me insisted on it ...

[Odd]

I am very pleased with my Sony TTS-3000 with SME 3009 and DIY plinht with built in RIAA with line level out.

62489

Also have another Sony TTS-3000 built for broadcast use with a very good RIAA. Pick-up arm built in Norway for the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation.

62490

[SEAWOLF97]

Without the timely intervention of macaroonie, our forum member here, I would have lost $1,500 for his scam item!

I'm not sure it would have been a $1,500 loss, if it was an Ariston. It had the arm that you want, has a beautiful plinth, and seemed in good shape. Certainly it did have some good value. Just maybe not the full value for the amount that you were paying. :dont-know:

[macaroonie]

[/QUOTE]62489

Also have another Sony TTS-3000 built for broadcast use with a very good RIAA. Pick-up arm built in Norway for the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation.

62490[/QUOTE]

Lovely , bet it sounds good. Is that a Penny & Giles fader on the pre amp ?

Sub set factoid. Levinson uses P & G faders ( or did ). Made in Wales from coal and tin , best you can get bar none. Same as in Neve desks

[pyonc]

I'm not sure it would have been a $1,500 loss, if it was an Ariston. It had the arm that you want, has a beautiful plinth, and seemed in good shape. Certainly it did have some good value. Just maybe not the full value for the amount that you were paying. :dont-know:

Well, I'm sure the pics he sent me are fake, maybe taken from internet or somewhere else. When I asked for the pic showing the serial no. on the back to double check authenticity of the Linn plinth, he just reacted emotionally, refusing to send. What made me suspect he's a scammer was that the name he used for this deal was not the same as his real name on the bank account no. he informed me for money wire. He must have made it hastily for the sole purpose of taking my money and closing it. In hindsight, I'm sure he's a typical scammer intent on ripping off someone like me. Actually I was approached by another scammer who solicited me to buy his JBL SE400S. I checked his pics with those on the internet, and they were actually taken from the internet! In both cases, I placed an ad on Canuck, the popular free audio mart for US and Canada. As it turned out, this site is swarmed with this kind of cunning scammers, where lots of people complain about their cases of scams. I feel ebay and PayPal with buyer protection are the most safe as far as auction and online payment are concerned.

[Odd]

62489

Also have another Sony TTS-3000 built for broadcast use with a very good RIAA. Pick-up arm built in Norway for the Norwegian Broadcasting Corporation.

62490[/QUOTE]

Lovely , bet it sounds good. Is that a Penny & Giles fader on the pre amp ?

Sub set factoid. Levinson uses P & G faders ( or did ). Made in Wales from coal and tin , best you can get bar none. Same as in Neve desks[/QUOTE]

Yes there is a Penny & Giles, but it is not JBL monitor speaker.

[SEAWOLF97]

Well, I'm sure the pics he sent me are fake, maybe taken from internet or somewhere else....

There are so many net scams , + TT's are hard to ship, + you really need to check bearings/movement so that to be fairly sure of what you are getting, a road trip seems the best solution.
There must be some in the high pop east coast that are within a days drive. I think that the ability to "hear/feel/touch" outweighs the inconvenience of a drive.. and you've had a Linn before and know what to look for ?
Many of us have found the speakers that we desire and rarely are they located in our neighborhoods.
And shipping, unless packaged by a pro, can be difficult for a TT , there are many shipping horror stories.

Why did you let the old Linn go ?

[pyonc]

There are so many net scams , + TT's are hard to ship, + you really need to check bearings/movement so that to be fairly sure of what you are getting, a road trip seems the best solution.
There must be some in the high pop east coast that are within a days drive. I think that the ability to "hear/feel/touch" outweighs the inconvenience of a drive.. and you've had a Linn before and know what to look for ?
Many of us have found the speakers that we desire and rarely are they located in our neighborhoods.
And shipping, unless packaged by a pro, can be difficult for a TT , there are many shipping horror stories.

Why did you let the old Linn go ?

Thanks for your tip. Yea, I'd be willing to drive within the radius of Greater Washington area...
Why did I let my old Linn go? Well, when I bought it years ago on ebay, I was not so aware of the importance of the tonearm.
Actually the seller was an English gentleman in London, and I paid about $1,200, plus $150 shipping.
Mine was fitted with BasikPlus, not Ittok or SME 3009, etc. The sound was okay from this BasikPlus Linn, with Shure V15/SuperTrack stylus combo, but I just wanted to hear the "improved" sound from an upgraded tonearm. So, early this year I sold it on ebay at a much lower price that I paid. And now I'm coming back to find one, this time one with Ittok or SME tonearm.

[macaroonie]

Anyway , to get back on track with this thread , I reckon it's time to examine what's going on these days in the turntable world. There is no questioning the fact that there is a resurgence in Vinyl. Quality vintage decks are getting sold for prices that make my eyes water.
We have been talking about SME recently , I'm seeing good used ones going for 3 and 4 times what they were at retail when new. Amazing.
Along side this there are some extraordinarily expensive top end turntables on the market. Telephone number prices that in no way reflect the production cost. There must be some folks taking their vinyl very seriously indeed.

Coming back to the real world it has generally been the case that in the US market the emphasis has been more on the amplification and speakers than on the turntable. CD players don't count , they have ' perfect sound forever ' ( Phirips circa '84 ).
So lets have a look at why this happened.
Back in a n hour .........

[SEAWOLF97]

Thanks for your tip. Yea, I'd be willing to drive within the radius of Greater Washington area...
Why did I let my old Linn go? Well, when I bought it years ago on ebay, I was not so aware of the importance of the tonearm.
Actually the seller was an English gentleman in London, and I paid about $1,200, plus $150 shipping.
Mine was fitted with BasikPlus, not Ittok or SME 3009, etc. The sound was okay from this BasikPlus Linn, with Shure V15/SuperTrack stylus combo, but I just wanted to hear the "improved" sound from an upgraded tonearm. So, early this year I sold it on ebay at a much lower price that I paid. And now I'm coming back to find one, this time one with Ittok or SME tonearm.

yes, I have a V-15/T3 on my everyday TT , and a V-15/VXLM on my best one. I too, really like the V-15 (from 3 on up) family sound. There is an ex-Shure employee making pretty good replacement styli and sells on eBay. http://www.ewsaunders.com/

In 20/20 hindsight, it seems you should have kept the old Linn and have the arm of your choice fitted and only sell the then replaced arm ?

I drove to Canada for my 250Ti's and many here have driven further for their chosen gear.

[hjames]

Absolutely, I completely agree with Seawolf -
I drove to Philadelphia for my JBL 4320 Monitors, drove to York PA for my 4341s,
and I drove to Ephrata PA for the Vandersteen 3As I got last month.
I get to meet interesting people when I buy them, I get to check them out in person before money changes hands,
I am comfortable making sure they are cushioned in the car (so no shipping damage possible), its a great list of pluses and no negatives!
When Emma goes along we stop for a nice meal in the town where we buy the gear - thats always fun!
Oh, and after I get home I think of the trip and the people whenever I use that piece of gear!

Highly recommended!


yes, I have a V-15/T3 on my everyday TT , and a V-15/VXLM on my best one. I too, really like the V-15 family sound. There is an ex-Shure employee making pretty good replacement styli and sells on eBay.

In 20/20 hindsight, it seems you should have kept the old Linn and have the arm of your choice fitted and only sell the then replaced arm ?

I drove to Canada for my 250Ti's and many here have driven further for their chosen gear.

[SEAWOLF97]

Why did I let my old Linn go? Well, when I bought it years ago on ebay, I was not so aware of the importance of the tonearm.
Mine was fitted with BasikPlus, not Ittok or SME 3009, etc. The sound was okay from this BasikPlus Linn, with Shure V15/SuperTrack stylus combo, but I just wanted to hear the "improved" sound from an upgraded tonearm.

I buy records and send to my son in Chicago, who sells on http://www.discogs.com/seller/pdxpunk52 . If an LP is good enough, I dub it to minidisc first. The dubbing TT is a Pioneer PL-530 with what was one one of their audiophile arms at the time of production. It has the V-15/T3.
Was dubbing this AM and currently playing back the MD before letting go of the LP.
Got to admit that the MD sounds as good or better than many CD's I've heard. Sure I started out with a NM vinyl (but made in 1977), but Wow :applaud: , and this on a TT that I paid $45 delivered to my door. AND on a T3 that was OEM on my old Dual 701 (circa 1971) . It should have worn out decades ago, but just keeps on sounding fantastic. :D

[SEAWOLF97]

here's one you kinda asked about http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thorens-TD-125-MK-II-Turntable-SME-3009-Tonearm-Shure-V15-Type-III-Cartridge-/390866152552?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5b01702c68

and if I recall correctly, the seller MAY be a LHF member :bouncy:
contains arm that you want and cart too. NEW TT, never sold.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/thorens/td125.shtml

[pyonc]

here's one you kinda asked about http://www.ebay.com/itm/Thorens-TD-125-MK-II-Turntable-SME-3009-Tonearm-Shure-V15-Type-III-Cartridge-/390866152552?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item5b01702c68

and if I recall correctly, the seller MAY be a LHF member :bouncy:
contains arm that you want and cart too. NEW TT, never sold.

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/thorens/td125.shtml
Thanks! I saw that listing, too. Very attractive item. I've been torn between the rare Linn with SME, my priority, and Thorens with SME that comes on ebay often like this. Looks like Thorens with SME tonearm used to be mainstay. By the way, how do Thorens TT compare with Linn in terms of sound fidelity?

[SEAWOLF97]

I left the USN in '72 ...bought my stereo system (sight unseen) from a PX catalog . Pioneer receiver & speakers and a Garrard TT. (:eek:)

It wasn't till '76 that I was able to upgrade anything. Walked into a thrift store and saw a pristine TT across the room. Went over and it was a Dual 701 with owners manual and nary a scratch anywhere , and had a V-15T3 mounted. No price on it.
I had grown up with nice German Leica's & Rollei's. .... and could see the quality aura around it.
Took it up to the register and in my best redneck voice asked "Whadda want for the RECORD PLAYER" ?? In an equal voice the clerk replied "TWO DOLLARS AND 99 CENTS" . I hurriedly ripped out my $3 and got started on the upgrade path.

The 701 was Duals TOTL TT at the time. I think their first DD. It was big and heavy and beautiful. Built in leveling bubble, adjustable angle strobe , fully auto and quiet as can be.
I used it up till about 10 years ago until the PS died. parts NA. sold it for a couple hundred to a Dual rebuilding house , they even paid boxing and shipping. I gave them the sled, but kept the V-15
That cart is still playing in the PL-530. For all my time , it has been running through the MM inputs on receivers/preamps.
Just recently I acquired a ROTEL phono EQ. Am not going to do the "veil is lifted" routine , but the result in surely better. The setup sounded nicer than it ever has.
If you don't already have one, when you do get that dream TT , an outboard preamp/eq may be a worthy addition.
I looked up the model ...RQ-9708X . You can get a nice one for not too much, but there are many other choices available.
A good location for finding V-15/T3's is defunct Philips TT's. It was the OEM cart. Just add stylus and away you go.

[Beeman]

My current turntable is a Denon RP53 idler drive made in 1962. Refurbished & mounted in a plinth.

[SEAWOLF97]

.
unfortunately it doesn't get used enough . It and the 250Ti's are in the living-room and I'm just not out there often. :(

OBTW ..the record weight is an old TT counter weight with a 45 adapter glued to the bottom , works great. ;)

[pyonc]

.
unfortunately it doesn't get used enough . It and the 250Ti's are in the living-room and I'm just not out there often. :(

OBTW ..the record weight is an old TT counter weight with a 45 adapter glued to the bottom , works great. ;)

Looking at the record, it has Impulse label, major jazz brand.
Do jazz LPs sound good on your turntable in terms of details and bass?

[SEAWOLF97]

Looking at the record, it has Impulse label, major jazz brand.
Do jazz LPs sound good on your turntable in terms of details and bass?

That's Ray Charles - Genius + Soul = Jazz

I wouldn't really call it Jazz tho , more like BIG BAND . but...with RC doin' his thang on a B3, and YES ...it sounds wonderful

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genius_%2B_Soul_%3D_Jazz

[wpod]

was even making turntables way back then. And a Fi X to power it with, that is one sweet system! Don Garber is the Man! . Ps. - What are you using for a phono preamp ?, I'm always looking for suggestions in that regard. Paul, Providence, RI

[SEAWOLF97]

I got my V-15 VXLM here (thx Mr.W) ....it has an interesting setup helper.

it includes a template (for lack of better term) ... that doubles as a secure holder when in the box and a great guide.
You mount the cartridge in the headshell , but don't tighten down the securing bolts. Remove stylus and snap cart into the guide/template. The other end has holes that go over the spindle.
One for inner tracks and one for outer.
You place the guide over the spindle and it rotates and sets overhang for the cart. Then tighten down the bolts/screws , remove guide and reinstall stylus.

it set mine just a little non-parallel with the side of the shell , and sounds perfect.

I found a pic on ebay:

[chris21]

yes, I have a V-15/T3 on my everyday TT , and a V-15/VXLM on my best one. I too, really like the V-15 (from 3 on up) family sound. There is an ex-Shure employee making pretty good replacement styli and sells on eBay. http://www.ewsaunders.com/

In 20/20 hindsight, it seems you should have kept the old Linn and have the arm of your choice fitted and only sell the then replaced arm ?

I drove to Canada for my 250Ti's and many here have driven further for their chosen gear.

I have a v15 t4 on my empire 598. I too like how it sounds. Im using an sas stylus but will look at your link.

[SEAWOLF97]

I have a v15 t4 on my empire 598. I too like how it sounds. Im using an sas stylus but will look at your link.

I had an extra T4 that needed a stylus and a friend in OZ who needed one.
Checked with Ed (you do get personal replies from him) .... looks like there wasn't
a separate T4 specific one ... it uses the T3 , and sounds great too.

Keep thinking about getting a new whizbang cart, but the old V-15 sounds too good to replace.

Santa Cruz ? Beautiful place. I went to school in Monterey and got up to SC whenever possible. My kids loved a day at the boardwalk and UCSC ? Oh, WOW.

[chris21]

I had an extra T4 that needed a stylus and a friend in OZ who needed one.
Checked with Ed (you do get personal replies from him) .... looks like there wasn't
a separate T4 specific one ... it uses the T3 , and sounds great too.

Keep thinking about getting a new whizbang cart, but the old V-15 sounds too good to replace.

Santa Cruz ? Beautiful place. I went to school in Monterey and got up to SC whenever possible. My kids loved a day at the boardwalk and UCSC ? Oh, WOW.

I was just looking at eds ebay stuff and he has a t4 for 99 usd. The sas I bought was more like 130.

[pyonc]

And rightly so. Rega is no more than a slab of particle board with a plastic hub and a glass platter. No suspension worth talking of. It's about the least , sparest design you could come up with to get a record spinning.
Rega does at last have some new decks with some sensible desin ideas in them , twenty years late.
Me no a fan !!

Hi Mac,

Your mailbox is full, so I can't send you a PM with the Linn pics...
So, check my email with the pics:

https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?hl=en&source=navclient#inbox/1481ea3f4f53a063

[SEAWOLF97]

Somebody has taken a 530 like mine , added a V15T3 (like I did) and added a very nice wood base (like I'd like to) and made a rather nice auto TT .. :D

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4643875096.html

[hjames]

Absolutely - What a gorgeous looking TT.
Beautiful wood ... thanks for sharing!

63026


Somebody has taken a 530 like mine , added a V15T3 (like I did)
and added a very nice wood base (like I'd like to) and made a rather nice auto TT .. :D

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/4643875096.html

[Wagner]

And rightly so. Rega is no more than a slab of particle board with a plastic hub and a glass platter. No suspension worth talking of. It's about the least , sparest design you could come up with to get a record spinning.
Rega does at last have some new decks with some sensible desin ideas in them , twenty years late.
Me no a fan !!


Sometimes that's all it takes and to each his own

The LP12 is nothing more than an outdated mediocre design at best, by today's standards

During the days of the 1200 series Duals and the like it was a definite upgrade to the standard fare and one of the better decks available to the masses, but today? And that mainly thanks to simply being a belt drive in a rim drive world and using a better than typical arm which Linn did not even manufacture.

Finicky, aggravating antiquated sprung deck that is a real money maker for good old Ivor with the ENDLESS stream of mods and upgrades not to mention the parts that wear out.

LP12 reminds me of the 1990s Frank Sinatra. No one had the balls to tell him it was time to hang it up. Thing is though, the LP12 has never sounded as good as Frank did, in either one of their heydays.

Funny too that today even Linn sells a REGA clone!

I'll take a properly set up REGA with a nice cartridge over a Linn LP12 any day of the week

Except if someone gave it to me and I could sell it

[SEAWOLF97]

Absolutely - What a gorgeous looking TT.
Beautiful wood ... thanks for sharing!

63026

I emailed the seller with my complements and asked about his methods.
Kind reply was:

"Tom, Hi and thanks for the interest. I am always happy to help.

In my ad the plinth was the original for the turntable. I did the wood veneer myself. The turntable has to be stripped down first and the 530 can look a little intimidating but it’s pretty straight forward. (be careful of the tonearm wires and the tone arm mounting. The plastic tone arm base is a little delicate.) After the turntable has been stripped down you just need to remove (peel off) the original veneer(a hair dryer can help to loosen the glue), sand the particle board base (repair any damaged edges or corners) and then cut out and apply the new veneer. Prior to applying the new veneer you need to make a template for all the cutouts and mounting holes because you have to drill the holes and cutout the mounting areas after the new veneer is applied. After cutting out the holes and mounting areas the veneer can then be finished. I usually use tung oil or Danish oil. The type of finish is entirely up to you. There are some on ebay that sell this service but it’s much cheaper to do it yourself.

For the covers I use the Novus plastic polish system.
How scratched and/or scuffed up the cover is determines where/how I start. Either steel wool (0000, or 000) and/or wet/dry sanding (start with 1500 grit and finish with 2500 grit). If you must start with the steel wool do not skip the wet sanding sequence.
After sanding I use the Novus #3, then move on to #2 and finish with #1. Occasionally I will use McGuire’s plastics polish (sold as a headlight polish). It tends to give the cover somewhat of a “wet look”.

If you have any questions just let me know.
Thanks,
Paul

[Wagner]

I got my V-15 VXLM here (thx Mr.W) ....it has an interesting setup helper.

it includes a template (for lack of better term) ... that doubles as a secure holder when in the box and a great guide.
You mount the cartridge in the headshell , but don't tighten down the securing bolts. Remove stylus and snap cart into the guide/template. The other end has holes that go over the spindle.
One for inner tracks and one for outer.
You place the guide over the spindle and it rotates and sets overhang for the cart. Then tighten down the bolts/screws , remove guide and reinstall stylus.

it set mine just a little non-parallel with the side of the shell , and sounds perfect.

I found a pic on ebay:


Hello,
Do you know if SHURE continued to offer this style of set up jig for the V15 Type-IV as well?

Thank you

[SEAWOLF97]

Hello,
Do you know if SHURE continued to offer this style of set up jig for the V15 Type-IV as well?

Thank you

I do NOT believe that they did. The type V is a little smaller and fits into it's jig like a molded piece of clay. Someone else relayed that it didn't even work on the type V's , but only on the later VX.. series. Not positive, tho.
Sure wish there was one for T3's , but I've been pretty successful just doing it by sight, I think.

The Denon DP-60L included an overhang gauge , and that helped. Better to check with the forums at http://www.vinylengine.com/tools.shtml

[Wagner]

I do NOT believe that they did. The type V is a little smaller and fits into it's jig like a molded piece of clay. Someone else relayed that it didn't even work on the type V's , but only on the later VX.. series. Not positive, tho.
Sure wish there was one for T3's , but I've been pretty successful just doing it by sight, I think.

The Denon DP-60L included an overhang gauge , and that helped. Better to check with the forums at http://www.vinylengine.com/tools.shtml


That's what I thought as well unfortunately.

I have tried many advanced protractors and methods over the years, including the popular arc types. Sometimes the very simple seems to work out best overall.
Never had very confidence inspiring results with my old Geo Disc but I have had excellent results, especially with inner groove playback when using the incredibly simply Technic's "52mm and keep it straight" technique on Technic's arms of course. Another little plastic user friendly set up jig.

That is why the prospect of such a minimalist approach would be very attractive to me to give a go with my Type IV if such a gauge existed.

[pyonc]

Hi Mac,

These are the pics. Wish I posted enlarge ones but couldn't.

[SEAWOLF97]

. I have had excellent results, especially with inner groove playback when using the incredibly simply Technic's "52mm and keep it straight" technique on Technic's arms of course. Another little plastic user friendly set up jig...

Oh I understand. Generally I put on a clip-on overhand gauge and then make sure I "keep it straight",
but the T-5 jig gave it a 2 or 3 degree yaw. (to the inside)

[Wagner]

the T-5 jig gave it a 2 or 3 degree yaw. (to the inside)

As will any number of the arc protractors

Takes a little getting used to, looks so unnatural. I've had good results with some, not so much with others

In the instance cited regarding my Technics it did not sound as well, the protractor which also gave me that "yaw", but that is just one table and one arm

Still, I just seem to feel better about things when all is nice and square

I know it makes no absolute objective point, but one's psychological state can have a dramatic effect on perceived sound quality! :)

Glad there are more than one set of alignment points to choose from! ;)

[NickH]

Over on vinyl engine they have plenty of print out protectors that work just as good and are free, lol. That's what I use.

I've heard many a table old to new, cheap to over 20 grand. I'll keep my thorens td124. Its not the quietest table in the world but it sure sounds good. I removed the suspensions springs and mounted it to a 50 pound mdf plinth. No problems there. I use a audiomods tonearm on it. I'm set for life with it. As for cartridges I has a obsession with shibata stylus carts. I currently run a nagaoka tonar 555. Its not a fancy lomc, just a uncool moving magnet. But the cantilever is made of carbon. Even the stylus is made of silicon carbide. I can't recommend the cart enough. Also if your looking for a relatively cheap phono preamp that sounds good, look at a rek-o-kut professional phono pre. Its less then 100 bucks. Its fully discrete architecture. Its sounds way better then it should for being around $75.

One day I do plan on spend some real money on a phono cartridge, something on par with the table I have. I plan on putting a London Decca super gold on it. It fits the vide of the table, like an old triumph motor cycle. They need some work to get the running right but when they do, they really do.


I only use 2 sources, vinyl and a emotiva cd player. The cd player doesn't see much action though. I've already gone through a couple oil changes on the table though. Its got over 100000 miles on it and still going strong, lol.

Nick

P.S. If you need a stylus cleaner don't spend big bucks on the audiophile junk. Go and buy yourself a mister clean magic eraser. I was amazed at how well they work. I examined the stylus before and after cleaning under a microscope and was quite surprised. You use the eraser dry and just lightly run it across the need in the same direction the record spins. No residue and no grime left. And all for a couple bucks.

[SEAWOLF97]

Still, I just seem to feel better about things when all is nice and square I know it makes no absolute objective point, but one's psychological state can have a dramatic effect on perceived sound quality! :) Glad there are more than one set of alignment points to choose from! ;)

well, you could just get a "P-mount" cartridge/table and be done with it all. B4 you say "yeah, but there ain't no good P-mounts", I did have a P mount Technics M2 , a close cousin of the SP-10 ..AND (at a different time) had a V15P. The rare P version of the V15T3. It came with the CD4 adapter and was used as a CD4. :blink: (and thus completely negating the advantages of P mount)


Over on vinyl engine they have plenty of print out protectors that work just as good and are free, lol. That's what I use. I've heard many a table old to new, cheap to over 20 grand. I'll keep my thorens td124. Its not the quietest table in the world but it sure sounds good. I removed the suspensions springs and mounted it to a 50 pound mdf plinth. No problems there. I use a audiomods tonearm on it. I'm set for life with it. As for cartridges I has a obsession with shibata stylus carts. I currently run a nagaoka tonar 555. Its not a fancy lomc, just a uncool moving magnet. But the cantilever is made of carbon. Even the stylus is made of silicon carbide. I can't recommend the cart enough. Also if your looking for a relatively cheap phono preamp that sounds good, look at a rek-o-kut professional phono pre. Its less then 100 bucks. Its fully discrete architecture. Its sounds way better then it should for being around $75. One day I do plan on spend some real money on a phono cartridge, something on par with the table I have. I plan on putting a London Decca super gold on it. It fits the vide of the table, like an old triumph motor cycle. They need some work to get the running right but when they do, they really do. I only use 2 sources, vinyl and a emotiva cd player. The cd player doesn't see much action though. I've already gone through a couple oil changes on the table though. Its got over 100000 miles on it and still going strong, lol. Nick P.S. If you need a stylus cleaner don't spend big bucks on the audiophile junk. Go and buy yourself a mister clean magic eraser. I was amazed at how well they work. I examined the stylus before and after cleaning under a microscope and was quite surprised. You use the eraser dry and just lightly run it across the need in the same direction the record spins. No residue and no grime left. And all for a couple bucks.

Lots of good points there , Nick.Thanx

I have my Denon DP-60L on a slab of marble now. Oh yes, all 3 of my CD players have been replaced by Panasonic DVD players that have the 24/192 DAC's. Really perks up red book.

[Wagner]

well, you could just get a "P-mount" cartridge/table and be done with it all. B4 you say "yeah, but there ain't no good P-mounts", I did have a P mount Technics M2 , a close cousin of the SP-10 ..AND (at a different time) had a V15P. The rare P version of the V15T3. It came with the CD4 adapter and was used as a CD4. :blink: (and thus completely negating the advantages of P mount)



Lots of good points there , Nick.Thanx

I have my Denon DP-60L on a slab of marble now. Oh yes, all 3 of my CD players have been replaced by Panasonic DVD players that have the 24/192 DAC's. Really perks up red book.


I'm not such a bigot (or snob) as to discount any deck simply because it's arm just happens to be a "P" mount. On the contrary, the theory behind "P" mount is very sound. Just not that many high quality decks built that employed the design as you have already inferred. Another excellent idea that never saw it's true potential realized thanks to bad concurrent development (timing) with the CD. :(

The tables, and their arms, I already own all just happen to be the industry standard 1/2 inch types and I am very happy with them all.

No plans for any new acquisitions in the "P" mount turntable department unless I stumble upon some fantastic deal such as a thrift store or garage sale orphan for next to nothing. A.K.A. a bargain hunter's "home run" type legendary score.

My complaints with some more specialized, or less common, alignment schemes' results as they work out with various arms that I just happen to own are divided roughly 1/2 and 1/2 as I have mentioned, between actual performance and the other simply aesthetic (psychological). I can live with Baerwald and manufacturer specific schemes well enough when I have to! :)

As long as the sound is nice. :bouncy:

Even when theoretically better alternatives are available.

[DavidF]

Here is a short video covering the experience of a Tower Records store on Sunset Blvd., 1971. Vinyl everywhere, of course. Oh, and some 8-Tracks. I didn't have anything like the size of Tower in that time frame back in Louisville but I can still relate to the imagery. Long side burns, loud stripes on pants, Schwann record & tape catalogs, and the smell of fresh vinyl. Among other aromas.

I have to give credit to veteran poster canyonman at the Klipsch forum for the original head's up on this video.


https://archive.org/details/casacsh_000018

[SEAWOLF97]

Here is a short video covering the experience of a Tower Records store on Sunset Blvd., 1971. Vinyl everywhere, of course. Oh, and some 8-Tracks. I didn't have anything like the size of Tower in that time frame back in Louisville but I can still relate to the imagery. Long side burns, loud stripes on pants, Schwann record & tape catalogs, and the smell of fresh vinyl. Among other aromas.

I have to give credit to veteran poster canyonman at the Klipsch forum for the original head's up on this video.


https://archive.org/details/casacsh_000018

thanx for that DF. I'm still digging through stacks of vinyl, but it's not as cheap or varied or condition as that in the flick. 1972= Long side burns, YUP, loud stripes on pants YUP plus my Harness boots (tho I did cut the rings & straps off)

Our Portland Tower is now a mattress store, guess Tower didn't need that much room to store digital downloads today :dont-know:

[Wagner]

Here is a short video covering the experience of a Tower Records store on Sunset Blvd., 1971. Vinyl everywhere, of course. Oh, and some 8-Tracks. I didn't have anything like the size of Tower in that time frame back in Louisville but I can still relate to the imagery. Long side burns, loud stripes on pants, Schwann record & tape catalogs, and the smell of fresh vinyl. Among other aromas.

I have to give credit to veteran poster canyonman at the Klipsch forum for the original head's up on this video.


https://archive.org/details/casacsh_000018


Hard to pin down EXACTLY when that film was made, '70 or '71 despite what the page indicated (I loved it, thank you!)

"All Things Must Pass" came out sometime in late November; I remember it well as it had been postponed numerous times and I was dying for it! Right on the heels of the Beatles breaking up officially and during the period of denial "they'll get back together".

That store in the video seemed to have plenty of copies! But I notice no signs of Christmas marketing? My point/question is that judging from the number of copies they were unboxing and the fact I could see no signs of Christmas anywhere I'm going to assume one of two things.
I've forgotten how it was to live in a world where the Halloween stuff isn't already out on display in August and or that particular location of Tower must have sold a shit load of that album!

That sure looked like an initial, "new release" order of an ex-Beatle title to me and "McCartney" was still out in large supply (released April of 1970)

Didn't notice "Ram" either, released May of '71

"All Things Must Pass" released November 27, 1970.........just in time for Christmas

"No Dice" is also in one scene, another November 1970 release.............?

I just can't get over the number of copies they had in what appears to be a single order of "All Things Must Pass" is all.

And the fact that this reminded of some time the likes of which we will probably never see again! Can you believe all the classics that were all out on the shelves, in QUANTITY from that variety of artists and styles, all at the same time!

Would love to know exactly when it was

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/clt/4677241067.html

[Wagner]

.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/clt/4677241067.html

And you know what? He'll probably get that or at least close to it and I'll be damned if I know why.

A friend of mine who owns a pawn and loan business gave me a DP-62L back in the '90s

It was flawless except one of the (4) counterweights was missing in action and I was able to find that (was still available back in the '90s new, from authorized parts suppliers) Tri-Tronic I think it was.

Anyway, it came with ALL of the arm wand options, owners manual, box and foam inserts, everything

A time capsule

For starters, those gorgeous wood bases are just veneered pieces of whatever, they are NOT as solid as the illusion would have you believe (and that veneer is VERY fragile); very cheaply made except for the skin. The bottom of the table was nothing more than a very thin piece of press board held in place with tiny wood screws, just one big resonator..........my point is that even though the DD part of those table may have been "state of the art" at the time and some may go for the flying saucer aesthetic, the build quality isn't even that of a Technic SL-xxxx series deck.
The base is VERY reminiscent to those found on the old Garrard Type "A" and similar tables; just a lightweight hollow box, '50s style.
But more aggravating than that was the fact that I could never get my example to sound worth a damn. I followed Denon's set-up to the letter, then after that fiddled and fiddled, tried (3) different cartridges and finally just sold the thing (got a good price) to the Sound Well in Berkeley and bought myself my first REGA.

I know a LOT of people LOVE those decks and maybe the one I had was just a bad example. But whether is was or it wasn't, it was in brand new condition. I see some folks mount them in heavy do it yourself plinths like the "301" crowd. Maybe that's the answer, but too much work for me.
AND that table has about 20 ICs in it.

The SONY'S from that same time period will trounce the Demons sound quality wise, just don't have the cool look and all the space age buttons and logic circuits

Those Denons bring GOOD money though? Maybe I was just too stupid to figure out how to set one up? :o:

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/4780248846.html

I'll copy text for posterity //

Well, this is a weird turntable that will need some explaining so I'll do my best.

This is a Sota Gem turntable. Sota still makes high-end turntable. Their "cheapest" current model is $750 though most are between the $3k to $10k range.

When I first acquired the turntable four or five years ago, the drive motor was a tad loud. I contacted Sota to see if they sold repair parts and they couldn't find the turntable in their records. After a few days I got a call from their head technician and after describing the TT to him he said it was probably one of (or maybe the first) model they ever sold. Someone contracted them to manufacture the turntable for them. This was before they had their own line of turntables. It's probably a little piece of Sota history.

So it definitely is an audiophile turntable and as such is probably best at home with a person who knows about setting up and maintaining high end turntables. It's a bit finicky and needs to be set-up whenever it's moved, but it you've done that before you know it's not a bit deal.

It has a new motor (maybe 20 hours on it) and is dead silent. The old built-in RCA and ground cable has been removed and replaced with RCA outputs which is definitely an upgrade. It is belt driven and the actual turntable is completely isolated from the base by springs which suspend it from the main body. The table is not affected AT ALL by bumps or loud speakers in the room. No feedback. No hum. No nothing. It has a Grace tonearm (not sure what model. Hopefully you can identify from the pics) and an Oyster Blue cartridge/stylus. The tone-arm drop is the most dampened drop I have ever seen. It has a finicky 33 to 45 RPM switch that physically moves the drive belt to a different step on the platter to change speeds. It doesn't work great, but I never used it so it didn't bother me. It does work however.

[LowPhreak]

Cool link, DavidF. If it was late '71, I would have been 10 then. When it was still fun to go to a record store. :)

[loach71]

thanx for that DF. I'm still digging through stacks of vinyl, but it's not as cheap or varied or condition as that in the flick. 1972= Long side burns, YUP, loud stripes on pants YUP plus my Harness boots (tho I did cut the rings & straps off)

Our Portland Tower is now a mattress store, guess Tower didn't need that much room to store digital downloads today :dont-know:

You mean CIVIL WAR boots!

YeeeeHAWWW!
The South Shall Rise Agin!
:banghead:(did I just say that??):banghead:

[SEAWOLF97]

You mean CIVIL WAR boots!

YeeeeHAWWW!
The South Shall Rise Agin!
:banghead:(did I just say that??):banghead:

Hey now ....
furthest South I've been is Sandy Eggo , (or IV corps ...depending on your perspective :blink:)

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://best-turntables.com/

[pyonc]

Hi all , this is a split from the thread in the general marketplace. I've had the Boss open up this as a separate thread to allow a more open and full discussion of turntables , vinyl and so on.

We have been talking about variants of Linn LP12 , I'll do a summary of that soon but feel free to pitch in impressions of others as you see fit.

Later on I have a wee project in mind that might fly , or not depending on the interest from the community.

After a long wait and search, I've come to get hold of Linn LP12 fitted with SME S2 Improved (cartridge Shure V15 type iii).
Please see attached pictures. The deck is in excellent condition, with its serial 50648, and very rare afromosia wood.
Professionally examined and set up by an authorized Linn dealer, it sounds just great from my JBL 4343.
I've chosen this particular LP12 and SME tonearm because it's such a great match with jazz, my favorite music.
Thanks a million, Mac, for your continued support and advice on my pursuit of this great turntable!

[SEAWOLF97]

After a long wait and search, I've come to get hold of Linn LP12 fitted with SME S2 Improved (cartridge Shure V15 type iii).

http://best-turntables.com/shure-v15-series-explained/

[pyonc]

http://best-turntables.com/shure-v15-series-explained/

Thanks for the info.
For the same reason I use only this particular cartridge and stylus (MM), though there are very pricy high-end brands.

[SEAWOLF97]

Thanks for the info.
For the same reason I use only this particular cartridge and stylus (MM), though there are very pricy high-end brands.

I use the V-15T3 daily. Also have a V-15VXLM (?) on the big Denon DP-60L. I like V-15's too.
a Denon DL-160 high output MC on the Denon DP-45F.

Had a MC DL-103 (on Mac's recommendation) , it's quite nice too. :)

[pyonc]

I use the V-15T3 daily. Also have a V-15VXLM (?) on the big Denon DP-60L. I like V-15's too.
a Denon DL-160 high output MC on the Denon DP-45F.

Had a MC DL-103 (on Mac's recommendation) , it's quite nice too. :)

Glad to know we have something in common here!:)
On Mac's recommedation, I've also purchased DL-103R like you, but haven't tested it yet.
I'm waiting for a phono preamp (Parasound Zphono) to test this high-end cartridge in the near future.

[macaroonie]

Well it's been a long road but your Linn looks really nice , clean and square all over. I bet you are delighted.
Enjoy !!

The Dl103 and variants is a fairly heavy cartridge , you will want to add some mass to the counterweight to bring it closer to the pivot. There is an added mass SME weight but you will struggle to find one . The simple solution is to add a £2 coin to the back of the std counterweight using fresh Blu Tack.
Using the SME tracking force proceedure , set static balance and then set downforce as required. OR use scales.

You will not find a bad review of the 103R , poor man's Koetsu. All those 103 Denons have superb bass.

Nice pics BTW

M

[SEAWOLF97]

The Dl103 and variants is a fairly heavy cartridge , you will want to add some mass to the counterweight to bring it closer to the pivot. There is an added mass SME weight but you will struggle to find one . The simple solution is to add a £2 coin to the back of the std counterweight using fresh Blu Tack.
Using the SME tracking force proceedure , set static balance and then set downforce as required. OR use scales.

You will not find a bad review of the 103R , poor man's Koetsu. All those 103 Denons have superb bass.

M

I got my DL103 from a guy in Spain on eBay ...he was fast & cheap.

Don't recall where I read it ..enclosed sheet or where, but recommended was to set tracking force at 2 grams and anti-skate the same. After abt 6 months of bliss, I noticed the stylus was canted to one side and in an attempt to fix that, well ... I un-fixed that , permanently. A re-tip would cost as much as a new cartridge.
While I was contemplating my options, Mr. W's V-15VXLM came along and I grabbed it and so never returned to the 103 problem. And then that system is out in the livingroom and seldom used. My bedroom system (room is 14x24) with the V-15T3 (and a/d/s towers) gets most playing time.

moral ... set anti-skating at 0 (zero) if at all possible.

[loach71]

I have used SME tonearms since the early 1970s. They have always served me well. I did find one upgrade that made a large improvement in sonic quality when using the SME tonearms -- the SME F. D. 200 fluid damper kit. For your perusal, I have attached an Adobe Acrobat PDF file which contains the scan of the F. D. 200 fluid damper kit user's manual.

The F. D. 200 is available on EBay and from SME.

[pyonc]

Well it's been a long road but your Linn looks really nice , clean and square all over. I bet you are delighted.
Enjoy !!

The Dl103 and variants is a fairly heavy cartridge , you will want to add some mass to the counterweight to bring it closer to the pivot. There is an added mass SME weight but you will struggle to find one . The simple solution is to add a £2 coin to the back of the std counterweight using fresh Blu Tack.
Using the SME tracking force proceedure , set static balance and then set downforce as required. OR use scales.

You will not find a bad review of the 103R , poor man's Koetsu. All those 103 Denons have superb bass.

Nice pics BTW

M

Thanks, Mac. Yes, I'm delighted. :D
As for the DL-103R, it's certainly one of the best MC with rave reviews, and I bet your recommendation is quite correct.
For the time being, I am going to enjoy with Shure V15, but when I switch to DL-103R, I'll certainly keep in mind your advice here.

[pyonc]

I have used SME tonearms since the early 1970s. They have always served me well. I did find one upgrade that made a large improvement in sonic quality when using the SME tonearms -- the SME F. D. 200 fluid damper kit. For your perusal, I have attached an Adobe Acrobat PDF file which contains the scan of the F. D. 200 fluid damper kit user's manual.

The F. D. 200 is available on EBay and from SME.

Glad to know you're a SME lover like me.
Aside from your mention of FD 200 fluid damper, which is new to me,
I keep reading some improvement in sound when you replace nylon knife-edge bearing with a steel or bronze one.
I'm not sure if it's true... Have you anything to say on this?

[pyonc]

moral ... set anti-skating at 0 (zero) if at all possible.

Hummmm.... I'm puzzled. Can you explain why you set it at 0?
The Linn dealer recommends setting it to 1, which corresponds to the current tracking force of Shure V15 fitted into the tonearm.
According to the SME manual, it actually says "Place the nylon loop in the groove corresponding to the tracking force used."

[macaroonie]

I got my DL103 from a guy in Spain on eBay ...he was fast & cheap.

Don't recall where I read it ..enclosed sheet or where, but recommended was to set tracking force at 2 grams and anti-skate the same. After abt 6 months of bliss, I noticed the stylus was canted to one side and in an attempt to fix that, well ... I un-fixed that , permanently. A re-tip would cost as much as a new cartridge.
While I was contemplating my options, Mr. W's V-15VXLM came along and I grabbed it and so never returned to the 103 problem. And then that system is out in the livingroom and seldom used. My bedroom system (room is 14x24) with the V-15T3 (and a/d/s towers) gets most playing time.

moral ... set anti-skating at 0 (zero) if at all possible.

I've had dozens and dozens of these pass through my hands and never seen that. :blink:
Those things are built for cueing as in scratching , tough as old boots.

[SEAWOLF97]

I've had dozens and dozens of these pass through my hands and never seen that. :blink:
Those things are built for cueing as in scratching , tough as old boots.

I guess it couldn't have happened then .

[macaroonie]

That's not quite what I was getting at. If the diamond had come loose as the result of lateral force exerted by the anti skate as you suggest then it would be a candidate for warranty replacement.
Ordinarily the diamonds are stuck fast on to the cantilever. It is more common for the cantilever to bend or snap than for the diamond to come loose.. For example if you had caught the ' needle ' on the edge of the record when cueing manually.

[SEAWOLF97]

It is more common for the cantilever to bend .....

that's what I was trying to say.

and set anti-skate at zero to start and give it the bare minimum
to work correctly.

[loach71]

Glad to know you're a SME lover like me.
Aside from your mention of FD 200 fluid damper, which is new to me,
I keep reading some improvement in sound when you replace nylon knife-edge bearing with a steel or bronze one.
I'm not sure if it's true... Have you anything to say on this?

The SME tech folks say the knife-edge bearing upgrades are merely snake-oil.
My SME tonearms are box-stock -- and have been so for over 40 years.

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-32925-watch_a_portland_studio_cut_vinyl_on_one_of_the_mu sic_worlds_rarest_machines_%28video%29.html

[pyonc]

The SME tech folks say the knife-edge bearing upgrades are merely snake-oil.
My SME tonearms are box-stock -- and have been so for over 40 years.

Couldn't agree more. Why don't you show us your beautiful turntable fitted with SME 3009?

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://lpcoverlover.com/

[LowPhreak]

.
http://www.wweek.com/portland/blog-32925-watch_a_portland_studio_cut_vinyl_on_one_of_the_mu sic_worlds_rarest_machines_%28video%29.html

It figures that Fremer (analog "guru" [shill] of Stereophile) got his nose stuck in it. :blah:

[macaroonie]

Aaaaaaaargh , the F word :eek:

[SEAWOLF97]

It figures that Fremer (analog "guru" [shill] of Stereophile) got his nose stuck in it. :blah:


Aaaaaaaargh , the F word :eek:

Mikey helped drive me away from Stereopile mag :( (along wif Dud and a few others)

[LowPhreak]

Me three. I could name a few of the other usual suspects as well. It's been a lot of years and I don't miss it.

[SEAWOLF97]

.
yeah, it's on the F's site, but ...

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/tone-arm-geometry-101

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://vinylnirvana.com/ar-turntable-history/a-photo-comparison-of-a-new-and-old-ar-xa/

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/5088986761.html

[macaroonie]

I had one of those pass through the shop some years ago. Stunning build quality , perhaps a shade blingy in the styling. As I recall it was a first class performer.
Certainly will not wear out on you and pound for pound something of a bargain actually when compared to some of the inflated prices that some turntables command.

[SEAWOLF97]

I had one of those pass through the shop some years ago. Stunning build quality , perhaps a shade blingy in the styling. As I recall it was a first class performer..

One passed thru my hands a while back. You are right about build quality . HEAVY platter.
Many are thrashed and some have a surface crazing on the anodizing. I never got a belt short
enough and the connecting cable under the arm was wrong pins.
Traded the Technics M2 for it and later moved it off on CL. Saw it again for sale (at nearly this ad's price) about a year later (that owner had not got it going either)

[Wagner]

Styling (and Direct Drive) may not be for everyone, but build quality is hard to beat
Tonearm is superb and allows for VTA and Bias adjust on the "fly"
SHOULD BE RE-CAPPED if you like and plan on keeping it
My favorite out of the series is the "60"; the convenience of automatic but without all of the ICs and extra "features" of the "70" (you'll never find service parts for a "70" if it breaks down or needs and IC (it has that electric motor controlled tonearm lift that was popular during this period with several manufacturers)

This series of deck, when re-capped properly, should easily see another 35 years of trouble free operation; that is how well they are built
Enough of them still floating around that you can find one for small change if you are vigilant

Guy on the local "craigslist" was having trouble realizing $200 for a nice one here about a month ago (but his problem was his ad, not the deck) Wish I had printed that one out; a "craigslist" ad for all times) I have had absolutely no problems seeing $500 and up for the 3 I have re-capped and sold, with NO cart

Originally supplied with an auxiliary counterweight. "SONY" branded 45 adapter and set down adjustment "key"; these are often lost unfortunately, but I have been lucky and all 3 of mine had theirs! Dutiful owners all taped these bits to the plinth with masking tape?!

The sound quality of this table is VERY good and you can use any catridge you choose and not have to worry about it, the arm is that good:
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X60.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaH2kHSmlM

[SEAWOLF97]

I had one of those pass through the shop some years ago. Stunning build quality , perhaps a shade blingy in the styling. As I recall it was a first class performer.
Certainly will not wear out on you and pound for pound something of a bargain actually when compared to some of the inflated prices that some turntables command.

I started getting serious about the Empire ...seller replied:

Hi ,
the Empire sold , it was a ADC XLM cart.
Sincerely,
Kara

Like I really needed another TT ?? but would add bling to the LR.

[SEAWOLF97]

yesterday & today I've been falling into audio deals. Among them was a Dual TT (1268).

On first glance I saw the strobe markings on the platter and speed adjustment ... hmmm , has to be DD
as I've never seen a belt drive with those features. WRONG.

they call it a "vario belt system" who knew ? it's the ULM series (ultra low mass) with Ortofon cart.
Pretty huge & solid. quiet performer. No spots for more, so .....

[SEAWOLF97]

http://www.nbcnews.com/nightly-news/vinyl-records-see-comeback-during-musics-digital-age-n435806

[SEAWOLF97]

RARE-MINT!! ACOUSTIC RESEARCH AR-XA TURNTABLE WITH SUPERB REGA RB-300 ARM!! EC!!

RARE LEGENDARY COLLECTORS ITEM!!

ACOUSTIC RESEARCH [UK]......

AR-XA TYPE BELT DRIVE TURNTABLE!!

Time left: 5d 21h
Price:
AU $1,195.00

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-MINT-ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-AR-XA-TURNTABLE-WITH-SUPERB-REGA-RB-300-ARM-EC-/221900347894?

Wow, I've had 5 or 6 of these (but with standard arm) ... added together, they don't total even half of this. :(

[SEAWOLF97]

In the last batch of 3 turntables I received, there was one that I did not want to invest any time into. Did checkout the cart.
It's an Empire 880 p .

did some research on it and seems very well liked. Anybody know about it ? Mac ?

[macaroonie]

Don't think I've encountered that one. Prob give the Shure V15 a run for it's money. Neither Empire or Pickering had strong representation in the UK

Take a macro of the diamond , you should be able to get an idea if it is in good shape

http://www.vinylengine.com/library/empire/880p.shtml

[4313B]

http://www.nytimes.com/slideshow/2015/09/15/business/tk-tk/s/VINYL-slide-JLS7.html

[Wagner]

In the last batch of 3 turntables I received, there was one that I did not want to invest any time into. Did checkout the cart.
It's an Empire 880 p .

did some research on it and seems very well liked. Anybody know about it ? Mac ?
Was and still is a heavy hitter on the right arm (better than the SHURE M3D which is a pretty damn good cart if you've ever heard one) but without the need to tack at 3 and above grams
Heavy cart, weighs in at around 10 grams
The final and finest version was the 880 PE
The "PE" was an elliptical stylus, .0002 x .0009 RD (0.2 x 0.9 Mil), 15 degree vertical tracking
VTF could be set very low (especially for the day)
Could easily track at 1.5-2 grams, Empire claimed an optimistic 1/2 gram was possible
Frequency response published for the conical (first) version was 6 - 30,000 cycles!
I have a brand new, NOS 880PE stylus that's never been installed on a cart if you decide to do anything with it
I did some research on the 880 series some time back but can't locate my notes at the moment
If you decide you DON'T want to use it with anything, throw it up on eprey; the 880s will bring some decent coin

[Wagner]

In the last batch of 3 turntables I received, there was one that I did not want to invest any time into. Did checkout the cart.
It's an Empire 880 p .

did some research on it and seems very well liked. Anybody know about it ? Mac ?
Was and still is a heavy hitter on the right arm (better than the SHURE M3D which is a pretty damn good cart if you've ever heard one) but without the need to tack at 3 and above grams
Heavy cart, weighs in at around 10 grams
There were three versions of the cartridge (achieved with stylus changes by Empire as new models or the end user with a stylus change, same as what SHURE did over time with the M3D, V15s and others)
The first was a heavy tracking conical similar to the SHURE M3D with a white plastic bit
Secondly came the most common 0.6 Mil conical which tracked much lighter as mentioned with a green plastic bit and finally, the 880PE elliptical with a black plastic bit on the shank
The final and finest version was the 880PE
The "PE" was an elliptical stylus, .0002 x .0009 RD (0.2 x 0.9 Mil), 15 degree vertical tracking
VTF could be set very low (especially for the day)
Could easily track at 1.5-2 grams, Empire claimed an optimistic 1/2 gram was possible (same was claimed with the .06 Mil conical, green shank)
Frequency response published for the conical (green) version was 6 - 30,000 cycles!
I have a brand new, NOS 880PE stylus that's never been installed on a cart if you decide to do anything with it
I did some research on the 880 series some time back but can't locate my notes at the moment
If you decide you DON'T want to use it with anything, throw it up on eprey; the 880s will bring some decent coin
I need to do the same with this stylus as all of my Empires disappeared ages ago

[SEAWOLF97]

Was and still is a heavy hitter on the right arm ....

Thanx for the detailed info TW. May mount it in a spare shell and give it a go. (sure is pretty :) )

mine is the green.

[Wagner]

Thanx for the detailed info TW. May mount it in a spare shell and give it a go. (sure is pretty :) )

mine is the green.

You have to actually look at the end inside the cart to be sure which stylus you have
The plastic you can see on the outside only coincides with whatever model designation it started life as

[Wagner]

RARE-MINT!! ACOUSTIC RESEARCH AR-XA TURNTABLE WITH SUPERB REGA RB-300 ARM!! EC!!

RARE LEGENDARY COLLECTORS ITEM!!

ACOUSTIC RESEARCH [UK]......

AR-XA TYPE BELT DRIVE TURNTABLE!!

Time left: 5d 21h
Price:
AU $1,195.00

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RARE-MINT-ACOUSTIC-RESEARCH-AR-XA-TURNTABLE-WITH-SUPERB-REGA-RB-300-ARM-EC-/221900347894?

Wow, I've had 5 or 6 of these (but with standard arm) ... added together, they don't total even half of this. :(
I understand and appreciate the importance of the AR turntables, the early ones really do represent a milestone product, primarily for consumers (people who wanted to play records and have them sound better than the Grind-O-Matics, Stack-O-Matics that most folks had) And to be able to play them at least a few times before needing another copy! :p

That being said, I cannot for the life of me understand the money people pour into those shit decks today and when they are done (the full blown route, a la the "Vinyl Nirvana" and others) they've changed every piece of it. THOUSANDS of dollars can be spent on those things. Even the Teledyne era tables.

I mean, if building's your thing there are easier (and much better to begin with) ways to do it.

To each his own I guess. I had and sold and maybe would like to have again an original, but more for nostalgia than anything else. With a lot of my pressings starting at $40 bucks a pop and upwards, the AR deck and arm just doesn't inspire in me a whole lot of confidence.

NOT knocking "Vinyl Nirvana" or anyone else; just don't see it (or hear it). I've heard one of the late models with handfuls of money thrown at it...................like I said, don't get it.

People still love them though, that's for certain. Personally I think it's a lot to do with the cult of personality. Any of the top drawer Jap DDs will kick it's ass (for under a grand).

The Teledyne ownership did a good job of creating an illusion of high performance (read: "hi-fi") there towards the end (just sell ANY deck without an arm and you'll have legions of fans)
But what's THAT tell ya?

[audiomagnate]

I understand and appreciate the importance of the AR turntables, the early ones really do represent a milestone product, primarily for consumers (people who wanted to play records and have them sound better than the Grind-O-Matics, Stack-O-Matics that most folks had) And to be able to play them at least a few times before needing another copy! :p

That being said, I cannot for the life of me understand the money people pour into those shit decks today and when they are done (the full blown route, a la the "Vinyl Nirvana" and others) they've changed every piece of it. THOUSANDS of dollars can be spent on those things. Even the Teledyne era tables.

I mean, if building's your thing there are easier (and much better to begin with) ways to do it.

To each his own I guess. I had and sold and maybe would like to have again an original, but more for nostalgia than anything else. With a lot of my pressings starting at $40 bucks a pop and upwards, the AR deck and arm just doesn't inspire in me a whole lot of confidence.

NOT knocking "Vinyl Nirvana" or anyone else; just don't see it (or hear it). I've heard one of the late models with handfuls of money thrown at it...................like I said, don't get it.

People still love them though, that's for certain. Personally I think it's a lot to do with the cult of personality. Any of the top drawer Jap DDs will kick it's ass (for under a grand).

The Teledyne ownership did a good job of creating an illusion of high performance (read: "hi-fi") there towards the end (just sell ANY deck without an arm and you'll have legions of fans)
But what's THAT tell ya?


You answered your own question: "but more for nostalgia than anything else." I bought one new back in high school for chump change - $78 sticks in my mind - and even stuck a Transcriptors Vestigal on it and had some fun with it. Let's just say I moved on a long, long time ago, but to each his own. I have close to $40k invested in a 48 year old BMW coupe that can be beaten on the track by a $2,000 Miata, but I love the hell out it and will probably keep it till I die. It makes no sense, but neither does most of what goes on in this world from my point of view. Live and let live. FWIW, I stream most of my music from the cloud these days, mostly it 24 bit no less, but I have seriously downgraded my turntable to an automatic Sony PS-X5 for when I want to play a record (I refuse to use the term "vinyl") and enjoy the heck out of it.

[Wagner]

You answered your own question: "but more for nostalgia than anything else." I bought one new back in high school for chump change - $78 sticks in my mind - and even stuck a Transcriptors Vestigal on it and had some fun with it. Let's just say I moved on a long, long time ago, but to each his own. I have close to $40k invested in a 48 year old BMW coupe that can be beaten on the track by a $2,000 Miata, but I love the hell out it and will probably keep it till I die. It makes no sense, but neither does most of what goes on in this world from my point of view. Live and let live. FWIW, I stream most of my music from the cloud these days, mostly it 24 bit no less, but I have seriously downgraded my turntable to an automatic Sony PS-X5 for when I want to play a record (I refuse to use the term "vinyl") and enjoy the heck out of it.
There was no question.
My point was is that when some of these guys are done, there's nothing left to be nostalgic over?
They've replaced every piece of it except the name, and even then!
Wasn't trying to "make sense" of it or anything; I have old equipment too that I love.

Sorry to hear about the BMW :D

[LowPhreak]

... for when I want to play a record (I refuse to use the term "vinyl")

Buy that man a beer! :cheers:

[SEAWOLF97]

A Guide to Portland Record Stores
In Portland, every day is Record Store Day. This is a guide to all of them.

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-24387-a_guide_to_portland_record_stores.html

[Wagner]

You answered your own question: "but more for nostalgia than anything else." I bought one new back in high school for chump change - $78 sticks in my mind - and even stuck a Transcriptors Vestigal on it and had some fun with it. Let's just say I moved on a long, long time ago, but to each his own. I have close to $40k invested in a 48 year old BMW coupe that can be beaten on the track by a $2,000 Miata, but I love the hell out it and will probably keep it till I die. It makes no sense, but neither does most of what goes on in this world from my point of view. Live and let live. FWIW, I stream most of my music from the cloud these days, mostly it 24 bit no less, but I have seriously downgraded my turntable to an automatic Sony PS-X5 for when I want to play a record (I refuse to use the term "vinyl") and enjoy the heck out of it.
I hear what you are saying and that's cool too; I'm the same way, but to my mind, nostalgia is a love or longing or want for things to be the way they used to be and that certainly extends to inanimate objects.

BUT, when you bastardize the inanimate object to the point that the inanimate object is barely a shadow of it's former self and subsequently the memory................well, that's another "passion" altogether, at least for me.

Have to be careful too with audio equipment as we all know, it's very very easy to get too carried away and you wind up spoiling what it was that you loved or changing it in some not so happy and satisfying way.

Another angle to it all is how many guys heavily modify whatever it is: piece of audio gear, car what have you and 10 - 20 years down the road an all ORIGINAL example is worth bank. It's definitely something to think about as we go about our feeble attempts to hold onto what we love from the past. Already happened to me a couple of times (I'm old enough), especially with electric guitars.

Same as with refinishing old wood pieces, it's all about preservation for me mixed in with a good dose of moderation. But clearly, especially with electronics, there are some areas where you have no choice (like power supplies).

I'm just into preserving most things as close as possible to, and respecting the beauty of the original design, warts and all. But I understand with automobiles, that can definitely be another story, especially if you're into high performance or competition, I respect that passion.. Still, it makes me pretty sad when I see what's been done to too many '36 Fords and chopped and dropped Mercs. Anyway, I digress.

As for the term "vinyl", what really irks the shit out of me is the currently popular moniker "vinyls" as in "we're going to spin some vinyls" or "how many vinyls do you own". Hate to admit it but just hearing it pisses me off, so I'm +2 with you on that one.

And my other favorite douche phrase: "needle drops". When I hear that one I just want to boot somebody in the ass! http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/thinkfast.gif

[Hoerninger]

In Portland, every day is Record Store Day.

And I've always thought, Portland is Bicycle Land

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Portland,_Oregon
:) :) :)
__________
Peter

[SEAWOLF97]

And I've always thought, Portland is Bicycle Land

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycling_in_Portland,_Oregon
:) :) :)
__________
Peter

Portland doesn't excel at things in life that are essential , only the fluff. Bikes, records, coffee, beer and now ..POT.

It's becoming a "Berkley North" . Everything that happens offends someone , and instant lawsuit. It's been taken over by the minority gangs and the hipsters , both parties will never be employable. Protests against everything any authority does.

Cable TV has a show about our city called "Portlandia". It's truer to life than is comfortable. diners at a restaurant order chicken, but then want to know the history of that particular chickens life , before ordering they have to take a field trip to the farm where it was raised and play 20 questions with the farmer .."Was it a happy chick ? ..etc..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ErRHJlE4PGI

The tagline for the show is "Portland, where young people go to retire" and "A weekend wasted is a weekend well spent." and "The Dream of The '90s is Alive in Portland."

https://www.google.com/search?q=youtube+portlandia&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

I'm glad I lived here when it was a vital place, now it's just silly.

[LowPhreak]

I'm a little left of Che Guevara ;) but...that kind of stuff makes me want to slap those kids and say knock it off & get real. :bash:

[SEAWOLF97]

I'm a little left of Che Guevara ;) but...that kind of stuff makes me want to slap those kids and say knock it off & get real. :bash:

you just don't know how aggravating this place can be. Our City council is a bunch of clowns. There is NO accountability.
REALLY , motorists kill cyclists and get tickets. Every kind of bizarre behavior is tolerated and even celebrated. Activist headquarters. But we do get surplus JBL's from California refugees. :)


Portland doesn't excel at things in life that are essential , only the fluff. Bikes, records, coffee, beer and now ..POT.


fortunately, Bikes, records and coffee play well with retirement. :)

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/scenes-internet-lp-buying

[Wagner]

.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/scenes-internet-lp-buying
I read the piece; as for presentation, yes, photos are nice, but with Lps still meaningless. ANYONE who claims they can give an Lp a proper (and reasonably safe and accurate as to playing condition) visual grading by a photo, on ANY site, is full of shit.
Even when I've held them in my hands and had to buy based solely on visual grading I've been burned, although not too often after handling them for more than 45 years.

[SEAWOLF97]

Even when I've held them in my hands and had to buy based solely on visual grading I've been burned, although not too often after handling them for more than 45 years.

You ain't the Lone Ranger Tom. When buying, I usually find a stack of candidates and a place to sit and inspect them. They get the reflective test, the flatness test, the fingernail over perceived scratches test..and I've been burned. :(
But also brand new, straight new from unopened shrink has yielded pops/clicks.

Last year one that I'd been looking for presented itself , so I was extra cautious. I did everything BUT check the label.
Got it home and cued it up and said "that sounds like fuggin Glen Campbell" :( :( . Yeah, perfect shape, but wrong record in the jacket.

My son , who sells records on the web runs into the grading problem a lot,,,,,, looks great , but doesn't play that way. So he tells prospective buyers that he will "play grade" on request, before purchase. Very few request that.

I got these 2 yesterday. The QUAD plays perfectly, they always do :)

[SEAWOLF97]

,
http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-releases/diggers-delight-londons-8-best-secret-record-shops/

[SEAWOLF97]

Was and still is a heavy hitter on the right arm (better than the SHURE M3D which is a pretty damn good cart if you've ever heard one) but without the need to tack at 3 and above grams
Heavy cart, weighs in at around 10 grams
VTF could be set very low (especially for the day)
Could easily track at 1.5-2 grams, Empire claimed an optimistic 1/2 gram was possible (same was claimed with the .06 Mil conical, green shank)
Frequency response published for the conical (green) version was 6 - 30,000 cycles!
I did some research on the 880 series some time back but can't locate my notes at the moment
If you decide you DON'T want to use it with anything, throw it up on eprey; the 880s will bring some decent coin
I need to do the same with this stylus as all of my Empires disappeared ages ago

so I said to myself "self, you've got lots of good TT carts, good as the Empire looks ..might as well stick it on CL" . So if you put up a V-15T3/4/5 , it sells quickly. The 880p just sat there , ignored.
had some time and so mounted it in a shell *, the TF was set at 2g. (I play some iffy vinyl at times and looks like the last played must have had some warp) ..I left it at 2.

Wow :) , just as enjoyable as the Shure (but I perceive better bass) . Just to honor TW , I auditioned the cart with a NY record. Nice highs & mids. Think I'll gradually decrease TF as far as possible.

found this on AK .."I would expect it to kick the Shure up and down the field. The Empire cartridge range form the late 60's- early 70's were VERY good moving magnet cartridges. There is a reason Benz Micro bought Empire.."

Now it's worth more to me than the unrealized CL bux :) and it's ad is history.

* just a Q&D job, just slid it up to the shell stops.

I pulled pretty hard on the stylus housing to get stylus out before wiring the cart and bolting down ..it wouldn't budge , so I was forced to leave it in ...sure makes the wiring/bolting process a lot higher stress operation. :(

[Wagner]

I pulled pretty hard on the stylus housing to get stylus out before wiring the cart and bolting down ..it wouldn't budge , so I was forced to leave it in ...sure makes the wiring/bolting process a lot higher stress operation. :(
You have to take the body shell apart to change the stylus, the single screw.
Also, try it with the heaviest arm you've got.
What Neil Young track? "Needle and the Damage Done"? http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/wink.gif
I'm glad you at least tried that thing before you offed it:

880P with the 880P stylus:
http://auctions.c.yimg.jp/images.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/image/ra219/users/7/1/2/7/gyao582-img574x486-1428935903uj1yjv25031.jpg

880 with an 880P stylus:
http://www.coralreefecosystems.com/forum_images/_Z8A4922.jpg

[Wagner]

I can't remember 100%, but I don't think you can see and thus know for sure what's in there unless you open it up
If you decide you want to sell, your best bet is to hook up with the LENCO guys or *epay

*just did a cursory search, the action is down right now dollars and cents wise, BUT they're all "cores" like yours (good cart, tip quantity undetermined)

[SEAWOLF97]

You have to take the body shell apart to change the stylus, the single screw.
Also, try it with the heaviest arm you've got.
What Neil Young track? "Needle and the Damage Done"?


Yeah, afterwards I got to thinking that the screw and removing the case is the only way that makes sense, but had never seen that situation before. Wish I had seen your posted pic.

Never the less, I got it up & going w/o destroying the stylus. With these old non-close focusing eyes, that was a major accomplishment. The Empire seems a good match for my Rotel phono preamp.

Quite impressed with it's sound. I put the other shell with the V15T3 away in a safe place for a while.

will it really track down to 1/2 g ? It's just in the "S" arm on the PL-530. I think it's a slightly longer than normal one tho.

NY ? comes a time.

[Wagner]

will it really track down to 1/2 g ? It's just in the "S" arm on the PL-530. I think it's a slightly longer than normal one tho.

IF it's got the right stylus in there (the "P") then theoretically yes
Your housing plastic is green, so that's what should be in there but you can't know for sure until you do (know for sure)
I'll look up that arm, but it's still going to be a medium to low mass if I remember
1/2 would be awfully light (that's a pretty heavy cart)
Try it, but just not on a record that is too valuable
I'd be fine at 1 1/2 if it tracked the whole side well

[Wagner]

Took a look at the Pioneer's owner's manual
I think a 1/2 would be pushing it
Where's your counterweight now? Hanging off the ass?
Pioneer suggests using the aux weight for anything over 9.5 grams and that arm is built for being able to take on high compliance carts..............so
Assuming you have the original head shell, I'd set it at 1 1/2
Do you have the auxiliary weight?

[Lee in Montreal]

http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/discount-supermarket-aldi-to-sell-vinyl-records/

[SEAWOLF97]

Took a look at the Pioneer's owner's manual
I think a 1/2 would be pushing it
Where's your counterweight now? Hanging off the ass?
Pioneer suggests using the aux weight for anything over 9.5 grams and that arm is built for being able to take on high compliance carts..............so
Assuming you have the original head shell, I'd set it at 1 1/2
Do you have the auxiliary weight?

you were right. it's been so long since I'd read the manual & had a heavier cart loaded that I'd forgotten about the aux weight.

A used TT with all the accessories ? In my dreams only. (tho my Denon DL-60L did ..box, both arms/weights, all manuals and overhang guide, etc.)

So I tried to find something to screw in there to act as weight supplement, but no joy. Then I remembered my graveyard of parts from tables that were beyond repair from the past.
I found another Pioneer counter weight the right diameter and seemed a bit heavier. OKAY, then search out "my hidden for safety" gram scale.
The pl-530 original was 450g and the newly found was 490. Swapped them out and now the arm balances the 880P at 1.5g with no problems or aux weight.

Thanx for the bump in the right direction :)

[Wagner]

you were right. it's been so long since I'd read the manual & had a heavier cart loaded that I'd forgotten about the aux weight.

A used TT with all the accessories ? In my dreams only. (tho my Denon DL-60L did ..box, both arms/weights, all manuals and overhang guide, etc.)

So I tried to find something to screw in there to act as weight supplement, but no joy. Then I remembered my graveyard of parts from tables that were beyond repair from the past.
I found another Pioneer counter weight the right diameter and seemed a bit heavier. OKAY, then search out "my hidden for safety" gram scale.
The pl-530 original was 450g and the newly found was 490. Swapped them out and now the arm balances the 880P at 1.5g with no problems or aux weight.

Thanx for the bump in the right direction :)
Sounds good
I wasn't saying you HAD to use an aux weight, was wondering if you had needed to was all (if your main weight was hanging off the ass)
The thread and pitch slips my mind right this second, but the Technics arms accept a machine screw thread you can find at any hardware store, most Jap arms do and you can make them up if you ever need/want to
Your weight in a good spot now? Before?

How's it sound at 1 1/2?

[SEAWOLF97]

Sounds good
I wasn't saying you HAD to use an aux weight, was wondering if you had needed to was all (if your main weight was hanging off the ass)
The thread and pitch slips my mind right this second, but the Technics arms accept a machine screw thread you can find at any hardware store, most Jap arms do and you can make them up if you ever need/want to
Your weight in a good spot now? Before?

How's it sound at 1 1/2?

well yes, with the long arm and the heavier cart, the counter weight was barely hanging on the 'ass end" . I did a 10 minute search thru a bolt collection for just some raw weight bolt, but nothing fit. Remembering the old pile of TT parts hadn't crossed my mind. finding a correct diameter and heavier CW was a long shot that came thru. :)

Stupidly, when I mounted the 880p and attached in arm , looked at the 2g already set on CW and thot it was fine ...duh. Was so happy to get it in the shell w/o breaking stylus that I forgot the balance was NOW completely wrong : IE ..it was sure tracking at a lot more than 2g. :(

Anyway, after I'd regained my senses (prodded by your post), I tried re balance but was running out of arm. Guess I could have added washers or something, but that wud have been an ugly mess.

I do have a little adjustment room now, tho hope to never need it.

Shud prolly get a scale in there to double check, but I'm pretty sure it's at an accurate 1.5g now. YES , it does sound good and I'll give the V15T3 a vacation for a while and enjoy the Empire. :)

[Wagner]

Stupidly, when I mounted the 880p and attached in arm , looked at the 2g already set on CW and thot it was fine .
You know, when I first read your story it kind of came across that way and I started to post a "you do know, right?" sort of question just to make sure.
Then I though, nah, this guy knows what's up and'll think I'm just being a wise ass
But it kind of nagged at me because I didn't know how literally to interpret this:

..I left it at 2.
Glad the needle conversation stimulated the memory
Kind of shit is happening to me more and more lately too; sometimes not so fun

[SEAWOLF97]

Kind of shit is happening to me more and more lately too; sometimes not so fun

Just an increasing common CRS attack :(

My big living room system with the 250ti's has a complex wiring situation. last week a CL buyer
asked if he could get a demo. I tried for 3 minutes, couldn't remember how to power it all on .. :( :( :(

BUT, I can remember my phone number from when a 7 y.o.

got that TT running right now, sounds good. I like the big Denon DD tables, but this 530 sounds
just fine and a full automatic is a good fix for "not always steady" hands.

The bedroom/mancave system is the Pioneer TT , 2 minidisk decks, an ARCAM CD running through an ADCOM pre into an ADCOM GFA-555 into ADS L-1290 towers (and 2 10 inch subs) in a 14x24 room.

or alternatively , BD and DVD players thru a Denon AVR to same speakers.

[Wagner]

Just an increasing common CRS attack :(

My big living room system with the 250ti's has a complex wiring situation. last week a CL buyer
asked if he could get a demo. I tried for 3 minutes, couldn't remember how to power it all on .. :( :( :(

BUT, I can remember my phone number from when a 7 y.o.

got that TT running right now, sounds good. I like the big Denon DD tables, but this 530 sounds
just fine and a full automatic is a good fix for "not always steady" hands.

The bedroom/mancave system is the Pioneer TT , 2 minidisk decks, an ARCAM CD running through an ADCOM pre into an ADCOM GFA-555 into ADS L-1290 towers (and 2 10 inch subs) in a 14x24 room.

or alternatively , BD and DVD players thru a Denon AVR to same speakers.
I had a DENON flying saucer deck, a DP-62L, beautiful table with the servo arm
I sold it, too much electronics on those DENONS
I'd rather have your "60" than a "62" but even that "60" has more crap on it than I like
I might have kept my DENON if it had the conventional S arm like yours
I like those servo DDs (no quartz lock, like first generation Technics) or the SONY system with only one or two chips on the boards
This one's a winner, it's a "60" too! I snagged it for peanuts at the local thrift (wouldn't work and the arm lift was frozen)
You could tell it was an original owner donation
Came with a SHURE V15 Type IV
One of the rare ones, set down adjust tool, 45 adapter and aux weight all still with the table
I re-capped the boards last Summer when I re-capped my Son's Technics
It's perfect except the original owner's DL# is engraved right on the front fascia trim piece............dumb ass
I love it, not too hot and not too cold with all of the electronic bull shit. I am happy it was this one and not the TOTL just above it (motorized arm lift and all of that happy horse shit to cry over when it stops working and the parts are NLA)

http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X60.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaH2kHSmlM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaH2kHSmlM)

[SEAWOLF97]

I'd rather have your "60" than a "62" but even that "60 has more crap on it than I like
I might have kept my DENON if it had the conventional S arm like yours

Mine came with 2 arms (and matching CW's) ... everybody kept telling me how the straight arm
sounds so much better, so I put an identical cart in that and gave it a listen. Ended up going back
to the "S". But that's in the LR system that I can't remember how to power up :(

I upped the 880p to 2g ..seems happier there . On a VG+ LP it was sticking, like on a scratched surface.
At 2 , it doesn't.

[Wagner]

Mine came with 2 arms (and matching CW's) ... everybody kept telling me how the straight arm
sounds so much better, so I put an identical cart in that and gave it a listen. Ended up going back
to the "S". But that's in the LR system that I can't remember how to power up :(

I upped the 880p to 2g ..seems happier there . On a VG+ LP it was sticking, like on a scratched surface.
At 2 , it doesn't.
Nice stuff
On your Pioneer/Empire combo you should really try to find a scale to make sure it's "OK"
Did the heavier counterweight pick it up (the extra mass) by being longer or having a larger outside diameter?
At 1 1/2 grams that thing shouldn't be getting hung up on top of the groove (unless old age has made the compliance like rock hard) How about the bias? Where you got that?

You set the overhang or just eyeball it?

[SEAWOLF97]

well, that brings up the Q ?

is the gram scale on a CW valid for a different arm ?
the g markings are closer together than the OEM CW.

as I'm typing this ,,, thinking most likely not ?

I don't like Pioneers method of weighing ... go to MANUAL
then put arm off the lift -over platter- then pull the power plug so rotation stops,
and now you can put scale on platter. (since rotation starts auto when arm moves over it)

[Wagner]

well, that brings up the Q ?

is the gram scale on a CW valid for a different arm ?
the g markings are closer together than the OEM CW.

as I'm typing this ,,, thinking most likely not ?

I don't like Pioneers method of weighing ... go to MANUAL
then put arm off the lift -over platter- then pull the power plug so rotation stops,
and now you can put scale on platter. (since rotation starts auto when arm moves over it)

You should check out my SONY if the Pioneer bugs you (but at least I have a switch up top, don't have to unplug, although I do ANYWAY just to make damn sure I don't an oops moment)

As far as that weight? That's why I asked. I really shouldn't speculate as I have no way of knowing what the other arm had going on. But I've set up enough tables I could tell pretty close if I were there to actually lay hands.
Japanese tables (and especially within a specific brand's model line-up, you know, the groupings) were pretty good about sharing the basic specs but it would be irresponsible and foolish of me to even pretend to answer that question

As for your gram scale, as it should be, 'cause it's a heavier weight; doesn't have to move as much to apply as much (or counteract depending on your point of view). And it probably does translate just fine BUT the only way to confirm that is going to be with a scale; again, I have no idea what that weight was counterbalancing in it's former life

It should be close IF you zeroed out the arm well BUT I have no way of knowing with the information I (don't) have

I'm going to shame you now, why the hell don't you have a SHURE balance beam? It's $20 bucks

And don't let 'em bull shit you into a chinese piece of shit digital scale, that old SHURE balance beam is just fine

Fine as wine and smooth as silk (and it doesn't require batteries)

Those digital scales that everybody just loves, the hot ticket? Well they ain't worth their weight in shit in my world unless they come supplied with a CERTIFIED calibration weight with which to check and zero the scale, and preferably TWO weights.
Anybody that ever owned a Harbor Freight DVOM (I've got TWO) knows that. Then there's the matter that most of them make no provision or tell the customer how and where to set the scale up and take the measurement ('cause most of the ones I've seen are just labelled for the use (tonearm), just re-purposed cheap crap...............so, get your ass on Amazon or somewhere and order up that beam dude!:)

You know, I only have one. I wish I had bought a few and just put them away. I think the price has gone up a bit with the Vinyl Revival goin' on. Used to be $20 bucks out the door until not too long ago
Been around for about a million years, now all of a sudden "everybody" says it's no good. Fine then, anybody have one that doesn't want it, please forward one to SEAWOLF97 ASAP and the rest to me. Thank You!:
http://www.amazon.com/Shure-SFG-2-Stylus-Tracking-Force/dp/B00006I5SD

[grumpy]

And don't let 'em bull shit you into a chinese piece of shit digital scale, that old SHURE balance beam is just fine

At least not the $120 version that you can easily get for $12... with a cal weight...
Even if not particularly accurate, they are nice when keeping track of small changes
(especially for more extreme, line-profile type stylii). El cheapo I bought
has the measuring surface at close to record surface height, which makes me happy
(some arms change VTF with VTA).

Nice to have both scale types.

[SEAWOLF97]

As for your gram scale, as it should be, 'cause it's a heavier weight; doesn't have to move as much to apply as much (or counteract depending on your point of view). And it probably does translate just fine BUT the only way to confirm that is going to be with a scale; again, I have no idea what that weight was counterbalancing in it's former life

It should be close IF you zeroed out the arm well BUT I have no way of knowing with the information I (don't) have

I HAD 2 of them. A Shure and original AR. Loaned them to friends in need ... you know how that goes ... never saw them again.

The arm was static balanced before VTF adjustment, but I answered my own Q.

Since last post I redug the electronic scale and now from reading the manual (duh) , I know that the TT has to be in play mode and then cut power. I did. So what the CW said was 2g actually measured at 3g on the digi scale.

but yeah, gonna have to get something better. I'm tempted by these

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Digital-Turntable-Precise-Jewellery/dp/B00BSP48HC/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1447369840&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=Digital+Turntable+Stylus+Force+Scale+Gaug e

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Precise-Digital-Turntable-Jewellery/dp/B00KMJXEBQ/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1447369840&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Digital+Turntable+Stylus+Force+Scale+Gaug e

[grumpy]

Right. Someone silkscreens a name on it and it adds $100 value? Not to me.
One I have is probably one of those you've listed.

[Wagner]

At least not the $120 version that you can easily get for $12... with a cal weight...
Even if not particularly accurate, they are nice when keeping track of small changes
(especially for more extreme, line-profile type stylii). El cheapo I bought
has the measuring surface at close to record surface height, which makes me happy
(some arms change VTF with VTA).

Nice to have both scale types.
You are right about that, they are also useful for matching
That's why I have the Harbor Freight cheapo DVOM&C :) meters for capacitance checking up to 20uF
Probably not accurate for shit but good enough for MATCHING

I'd be willing to bet that ALL arms change VTF with changes in VTA! :bouncy:

[Wagner]

Right. Someone silkscreens a name on it and it adds $100 value? Not to me.
One I have is probably one of those you've listed.
Exactly (that's the con job I was saying to avoid)
The Michael Fremer approved piece of chinese shit

[SEAWOLF97]

I HAD 2 of them. A Shure and original AR. Loaned them to friends in need ... you know how that goes ... never saw them again.

The arm was static balanced before VTF adjustment, but I answered my own Q.

Since last post I redug the electronic scale and now from reading the manual (duh) , I know that the TT has to be in play mode and then cut power. I did. So what the CW said was 2g actually measured at 3g on the digi scale.

but yeah, gonna have to get something better. I'm tempted by these

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Digital-Turntable-Precise-Jewellery/dp/B00BSP48HC/ref=sr_1_cc_2?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1447369840&sr=1-2-catcorr&keywords=Digital+Turntable+Stylus+Force+Scale+Gaug e

http://www.amazon.com/Professional-Precise-Digital-Turntable-Jewellery/dp/B00KMJXEBQ/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1447369840&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=Digital+Turntable+Stylus+Force+Scale+Gaug e

so I had forgotten an Amazon 'cash back' credit and decided to use it on a scale. Came in yesterday. I verified it with the supplied 5g weight . It measures to 1/1000th gram.

When I was shooting for 1.50g VTF on the 530, it actually measured at 1.75 , 1/4 gram off wasn't too bad. So it's now set at a measured 1.5 and sounds good (the 880p).

Will double check the other 3 TT's around the house now.

[Wagner]

so I had forgotten an Amazon 'cash back' credit and decided to use it on a scale. Came in yesterday. I verified it with the supplied 5g weight . It measures to 1/1000th gram.

When I was shooting for 1.50g VTF on the 530, it actually measured at 1.75 , 1/4 gram off wasn't too bad. So it's now set at a measured 1.5 and sounds good (the 880p).

Will double check the other 3 TT's around the house now.
Sounds like a happy ending
Which scale did you settle on?
Glad you like the old Empire

[quindecima]

I need a turn table, I don't want to spend more than $600 bucks. What should I look for? Stanton 150?

[Wagner]

I need a turn table, I don't want to spend more than $600 bucks. What should I look for? Stanton 150?
I would avoid any of the current "Super OEM" tables if possible (for a number of reasons)
Some are nice and some are better than others but NONE are as good as a decent deck from the days when The Lp Was King
Clean vintage Japanese tables the closer to the top of their respective lines the better (the line as in "SL-1xxx" series Technics for example etc)
In my opinion, the simpler models the better as well (fewer ICs with the direct drives)
Th real sleepers are the high end SONY models; still under the radar but people are catching on
All built excellent tables: KENWOOD, SONY, Technics. DENON etc
As I am certain you already know, even with the Jap tables, some brands command a premium over the others even when there is no OBJECTIVE basis to warrant it

Buy a very nice well built "higher up" Direct Drive (or belt drive if that's your preference), re-cap it complete and scrub and lubricate it immaculate and be good for another 40 years or more or trouble free, high quality Lp playback

You cannot go wrong with ANY of the good Japanese tables from this era, build quality, reliability, fit and finish and SOUND quality............AND there are high quality AUTOMATICS that do not involve machinery which degrades the arm's capabilities..................so the best of all worlds! Automatic is where it's at, if you properly service the machine; at least a semi

The "high-end" snobs knock on them today, but the fit, finish, build quality and most importantly SOUND from the better level Japanese machines makes most of today's "high end" offerings look, and sound, like toys

Many folks like the DUALS and other suspended decks and they do and can sound nice (I've owned a couple and they are very capable), but I still believe your best bet is with a solid plinth, non-changer machine. Too busy for me, but that is just my opinion. As good as a few of them are, I just do not believe the typical DUAL arm to be nearly as good or as versatile as the typical medium to higher up in the line Japanese offering either.

Same brands also made fine belt drives as well, and there's always REGA, which on the used market could be easily had within your budget

This sort of thing; I just acquired and rebuilt this one (re-capped):
http://www.thevintageknob.org/sony-PS-X60.html
https://theturntableshop.com/tag/sony-ps-x60-turntable/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duaH2kHSmlM

I'm not just yapping and I have no hidden agenda; I wouldn't sell this table now that I've gone through it for less than $2,000. Sounds better than any table currently in the house and there are some nice ones; like I said, sleepers

If you take your time and LOOK CLOSELY you can find this table in excellent condition for $200 or less. I will be so bold and proclaim that you would HAVE to spend several thousand dollars or maybe even more on something new today that has the potential to sound so good or that is built as well

I REALLY like, almost love, the Technics SL-1200; it is a very nice and good sounding turntable. In stock form, this SONY makes the SL-1200 sound like a different format. The arm is just that good.

There's lots of VERY good tables out there if you study up a bit and take your time

Good luck
Thomas

[quindecima]

Good stuff here, I'll keep my eyes open. I couldn't find the Sony anywhere but there are some Technics around.

[SEAWOLF97]

Good stuff here, I'll keep my eyes open. I couldn't find the Sony anywhere but there are some Technics around.

http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Turntable


http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/11/09/a-beginners-guide-to-buying-your-first-turntable/

[Wagner]

Good stuff here, I'll keep my eyes open. I couldn't find the Sony anywhere but there are some Technics around.
SONY wasn't a "got to have it" recommendation, just a good one for now as their TOTL stuff still flies under the radar as far as pricing goes
Just a good candidate to keep in mind as the same snobbery against SONY's higher priced offerings when it was new still holds true today with a lot of their vintage stuff, especially their turntables............although as I mentioned, that's changing as of late
They made a lot of good models

[Wagner]

Good stuff here, I'll keep my eyes open. I couldn't find the Sony anywhere but there are some Technics around.
SONY wasn't a "got to have it" recommendation, just a good one for now as their TOTL stuff still flies under the radar as far as pricing goes
Just a good candidate to keep in mind as the same snobbery against SONY's higher priced offerings when it was new still holds true today with a lot of their vintage stuff, especially their turntables............although as I mentioned, that's changing as of late
They made a lot of good models
Can't go wrong with a good Technics either although there are a few models I would suggest you avoid (the ones with lots of plastic parts) like the SL-1900; those are good players but suffer a lot of old age pattern failures (i.e.: parts that break which you can no longer source except from donor units) like the cue assemblies

If you pick the right model(s), going vintage should be a trouble free and rewarding experience

[Wagner]

Sorry for the redundant posts above; the edit function doesn't seem to be working

[Wagner]

http://www.wikihow.com/Choose-a-Turntable


http://www.artofmanliness.com/2012/11/09/a-beginners-guide-to-buying-your-first-turntable/
I know the intent of this post was to be helpful but not real crazy for any of the 3 they recommended for the buying NEW in the $300-$500 price range
Many (as in too many) quality control issues with all of them
I would avoid them unless I could buy it from a brick and mortar seller and even then there's better ways to spend $500 bucks on a table

I own 3 REGAs (120V models from the 1990s) so I am not a REGA basher, but their new stuff, to be perfectly honest, sucks as far as consistency ss concerned (and I am well aware there are plenty of guys who got lucky and got a good one)

It just shouldn't be an experience where you have to hope to get a good one, even at that price point and I'm not talking their infamous speed/pitch complaints, I'm talking wobbly platters and poorly assembled arms (which they've upped the ante on the plastic content significantly on their current lineup)

They've done what a lot of folks have done; cheapened out at every turn and called it "new technology" like their 24 volt motors (my opinion)

REGA ain't what is used to be; stick with the older ones when they still called them "Planar" 2, 3, 9, 25 etc

[Wagner]

Sorry for the typos folks, can't fix, still no edit function here at Lansing Heritage, just a little beach ball going 'round and 'round

[SEAWOLF97]

Hey wag ..

today I picked up an Empire 888 VE with the pink stylus housing.
Looks like the tip is completely worn off. Are good replacements obtainable ?

Is it worthwhile getting it going again ? I'm fairly happy with the 880P.

[Wagner]

Hey wag ..

today I picked up an Empire 888 VE with the pink stylus housing.
Looks like the tip is completely worn off. Are good replacements obtainable ?

Is it worthwhile getting it going again ? I'm fairly happy with the 880P.
They sounded good, pretty darn good
I have never heard any Empire that was bad although towards the end of their life they were making some pretty boring low price stuff (during the ultra low mass years)
I have not actually heard one in 40 years or so (the "888") but I do honestly remember them as being very good
Like everything Empire, there is always a myriad of styli that were made for the motor over time and I do know that finding one for the 888 or any of these older models isn't easy

I can tell you this; any of the EVG aftermarkets marked "Made in Japan" come of of the JICO factory and are very decent needles
I have seen them for the "888" (I had a chance to pick one up) ranging from around $10 to $30 bucks but they give no real useful info so I passed on the project
Try LP Gear, Needle Doctor, any of the usual suspects
As of late I would AVOID the Swiss made Pfanstiehls, they have all sucked for me
(that's why you have to ask as they source from all over now)
You'll need to shoot them an email to get some specifics, they seldom provide many details for the old timers
Just go with any of the Jap replacements and you'll be fine and remember that when "JICO" is written on the package the price triples or more

I am NOT recommending this particular one, just that you contact them and find out what they can supply. I have never used them myself but I have heard from people I believe that their customer service and knowledge is good:
http://www.lpgear.com/product/EMPS0888VE.html

[SEAWOLF97]

.
https://theturntableshop.com/rare-turntable-museum/

[macaroonie]

John Michell was one of the nicest fellahs you could meet. A true gent and one of the best in the UK Hi Fi Industry. A man you could trust and rely on Sadly passed on in 2003.

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/history/


Interesting point WRT the reference hydraulic ( in the pic above ) , you can see the small knob at the right hand side of the platter. It is at the end of a piano wire rod with a small right angled paddle that dips into an annular bath of silicone fluid that rotates with the platter.
It's primary purpose is to effect a measure of speed control. I have a pet theory that it also gives a constant pre load to the motor. Those decks had a much better sound quality than current thinking would give them credit for.
Stunning to look at. John used to do some specials in anodized finishes with bronze mirror on the base , and variations by request. Just for grins of course but now highly collectible.
Since they make ALL the parts in house except the plexiglass you are never going to be stuck for spares. If they don't have any they just make some. Nice old school way of doing things.

If you ever see one grab it.

[SEAWOLF97]

John Michell was one of the nicest fellahs you could meet. A true gent and one of the best in the UK Hi Fi Industry. A man you could trust and rely on Sadly passed on in 2003.

http://www.michell-engineering.co.uk/history/

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/norman-pickering-rip

A pioneer of high fidelity audio, he invented the Pickering phonograph cartridge. He was one of the founders of the Audio Engineering Society and its first Secretary.

[Odd]

68536

[Lee in Montreal]

68536

Ah, ah, ah. And wait until hipsters call it a "lifestyle"... ;-) ;)

[SEAWOLF97]

Ah, ah, ah. And wait until hipsters call it a "lifestyle"... ;-) ;)

OKAY ..I'll see your vinyl toon ...... and raise you one :)

[Wagner]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCyHn5XRzTg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRBEgCf5h44

http://store.acousticsounds.com/ (http://store.acousticsounds.com/)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Sounds,_Inc (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acoustic_Sounds,_Inc).

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/15/business/media/a-vinyl-lp-frenzy-brings-record-pressing-machines-back-to-life.html?_r=0

http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/new-vinyl-pressing-plants-open-up-in-america/ (http://www.thevinylfactory.com/vinyl-factory-news/new-vinyl-pressing-plants-open-up-in-america/)

http://gottagrooverecords.com/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HncMUQWCTgI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HncMUQWCTgI)

World class studio that the "trend" built:
http://www.blueheavenstudios.com/

This is just the tip of the iceberg, there are many many more (stories), all recent, all good money and growth wise

[Wagner]

http://www.jvc-america.com/about/company.aspx

http://www.techwaredist.com/wordpress/index.php/taiyo-yuden-to-discontinue-manufacturing-of-cd-dvd-recordable-media/

http://www.myce.com/news/victorjvc-media-shutting-down-in-december-76342/


http://www.discogs.com/label/275005-Mediamotion
Mediamotion
MediaMotion was a Dutch CDs and DVDs replication company.
It was founded in 2003 by the merger of former Record Service Benelux (http://www.discogs.com/label/484886-Record-Service-Benelux), Cinram (http://www.discogs.com/label/264131-Cinram) (former Polygram Manufacturing) and Metatec Corporation (http://www.discogs.com/label/128348-Metatec-Corporation).

In 2004, MediaMotion took over EMI Manufacturing Europe and became the exclusive producer and distributor for EMI Records (UK & Mainland Europe).

A year later kdg Netherlands B.V. (http://www.discogs.com/label/329476-kdg-Netherlands-BV) was also acquired and integrated into the MediaMotion Group, followed by Care4Data (http://www.discogs.com/label/362713-Care4Data) in 2005.

2006 saw further acquisitions for the Group in the UK (Workflow UK Limited) and in France (Digital Valley SA).

In 2008 EMI ended their exclusivity contract with MediaMotion. As EMI was MediaMotion's biggest customer, MediaMotion went bankrupt at the end of 2008. Parts of Mediamotion continued under a new name: Promese (http://www.discogs.com/label/447776-Promese). This included Workflow UK Ltd. aswell.

[Wagner]

Lps will still be around long after CD has followed suit with the Compact Cassette
Sorry guys, that's just the way that it is, and like Fremer says (and I can't stand him either), it's better to a lot, a lot of people, and why folks think it's better, I DON'T CARE

The current numbers and paradigm shifts are proving it (a GENERAL abandoning of physical media with two rather pronounced exceptions: Lps and printed books, real ink on paper ones!); LOTS of people prefer vinyl, will take it any day over a CD AND even the kids are getting in on it (or the "hipsters" if you want to continue to be a denier/insist this is only a trend or a blip)

It ain't just middle aged pot bellied men grasping for their youths and punks; TOO MUCH MONEY'S BEING THROWN AT BRINGING IT BACK and by smart people, some who've been in the retail music game for a long time. That's why all the story sharing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPP7IDR-iPw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RlBsaB1Bc9k

[SEAWOLF97]

The current numbers and paradigm shifts are proving it; LOTS of people prefer vinyl, will take it any day over a CD AND even the kids are getting in on it (or the "hipsters" if you want to continue to be a denier/insist this is only a trend or a blip)

My son supplants his income selling vinyl online , http://www.discogs.com/seller/pdxpunk52/profile ,
and he grew up here in Hipsterville, but records are a permanent part of his life. The only source on his L-100 based system is vinyl.

On my daily bike rides, I keep a lookout for records for him to sell. His family visited us (from Chicago) last week . He raided my archives and mailed home two 50 pound boxes of surplus LP's.

Chris specializes in PUNK. Until i started buying for him, did not realize how extensive the genre was. Expected white sleeved minimal presentation releases, but most most have original artwork and sometimes stickers or even patches. A black Flag 45 that I bough 2 months ago has a current resale value of 500 . That surely isn't for music value, but collectors valuation.

I don't buy for collect-ability , but for the actual music.....weird, huh ??

Many that I buy for him I audition first. If they are good, I'll dub to minidisk first before mailing to him.

When buying new: If CD and vinyl are nearly the same price, I'll always take the LP. It has resale value whereas the CD depreciates to zero quickly. :(

Oh yeah: MANY of his online sales go to Europe, Japan or South America (Chile). He has 2 record stores there that can buy from him (prices are reasonable) , then pay for Priority Air International shipping and still sell at a profit in Santiago.

[Wagner]

My son supplants his income selling vinyl online , http://www.discogs.com/seller/pdxpunk52/profile ,
and he grew up here in Hipsterville, but records are a permanent part of his life. The only source on his L-100 based system is vinyl.

On my daily bike rides, I keep a lookout for records for him to sell. His family visited us (from Chicago) last week . He raided my archives and mailed home two 50 pound boxes of LP's.

Chris specializes in PUNK. Until i started buying for him, did not realize how extensive the genre was. Expected white sleeved minimal presentation releases, but most most have original artwork and sometimes stickers or even patches. A black Flag 45 that I bough 2 months ago has a current resale value of 500 . That surely isn't for music value, but collectors valuation.

I don't buy for collect-ability , but for the actual music.....weird, huh ??

Many that I buy for him I audition first. If they are good, I'll dub to minidisk first before mailing to him.

When buying new: If CD and vinyl are nearly the same price, I'll always take the LP. It has resale value whereas the CD depreciates to zero quickly. :(

Oh yeah: MANY of his online sales go to Europe, Japan or South America (Chile). He has 2 record stores there that can buy from him (prices are reasonable) , then pay for Priority Air International shipping and still sell at a profit in Santiago.
And he's only able to do all that because they suck so much, right? That, or the hipsters have taken over the World.

Congratulations on your Son's success, I wish him more of the same; take a look at my bud Chad; that is essentially how he got his start, with a box of closeout MoFis he picked up at a K-Mart after their first bankruptcy (Mo-Fi's, not K-Mart's) and selling used records mail order out of his shitty apartment

[Wagner]

I don't buy for collect-ability , but for the actual music.....weird, huh ??

Nor do I, but it sure as hell "pays" in more ways than one to learn as much as possible, especially if you go on regular digs

When I bought my Son's last table upgrade, the creepy little dude had a milk crate of Lps he'd have probably taken whatever I would have given, he was moving and over boarding everything he could...............I passed (he was a young party age gay dude and a lot of the shit was techno-dance 12" mix sort of crap) and it was a sort of "all or nothing" proposition

BUT, there was also the entire first pressing vinyl output of " The White Stripes" there too; I was aware of who they were, some of their music, and that it was Jack White's noise due to the fact that I had at the time a late teens daughter still in the house................but I passed on the crate............

Check price trends for original White Stripes' stuff today :(.....................live and learn

[SEAWOLF97]

BUT, there was also the entire first pressing vinyl output of " The White Stripes" there too; I was aware of who they were, some of their music, and that it was Jack White's noise due to the fact that I had at the time a late teens daughter still in the house................but I passed on the crate............

Check price trends for original White Stripes' stuff :(.....................live and learn

Chris actually introduced me to WS "Elephant" . I like the classic Jimmy Page and Jack channels that passably well.

I've chopped out a couple of cuts and put it to my Nano, was enjoying that late yesterday on the homeward bound leg of my day trip/ride*.


* 4 PM , starting to get dark, mostly uphill , 35 degrees, battling headwinds gusting to 25, light drizzle,
tired legs, but good tunes pumped thru the helmet can detach me from the miserable conditions. :)

[Wagner]

I like the classic Jimmy Page and Jack channels that passably well.

You're not alone, glad you enjoy him
I can't stand the prick
Every time I hear his stuff I am reminded of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0aSDFA0Vk0

And I don't worship at the alter of Zeppelin either!

[SEAWOLF97]

You're not alone, glad you enjoy him
I can't stand the prick
Every time I hear his stuff I am reminded of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0aSDFA0Vk0

And I don't worship at the alter of Zeppelin either!

enjoy reading your posts, Wag. you don't pre-filter them b4 posting like I do,
or wud have in earlier days. :)

Now I'm so fuggin PC (in public) that sometimes don't recognize my own posts :(

[Wagner]

enjoy reading your posts, Wag. you don't pre-filter them b4 posting like I do,
or wud have in earlier days. :)

Now I'm so fuggin PC (in public) that sometimes don't recognize my own posts :(
I consider you a friend and a fun poster to read with a hell of a lot of "life experience", so feel free to tell me what you really think
I'm "grown", I can handle it! ;)
Won't hurt my "feeeeeeeeeelings" or how I think about you!

THAT'S "diversity" (and you know all about that from having served)

Thomas

[Wagner]

Hey wag ..

today I picked up an Empire 888 VE with the pink stylus housing.
Looks like the tip is completely worn off. Are good replacements obtainable ?

Is it worthwhile getting it going again ? I'm fairly happy with the 880P.
Did you order/decide on a nail for this one, or is the project still pending?

Try a $10 one and just road test it on something not so rare or valuable; might not be the best way to judge all that it's capable of, but it'll surely give you some idea of if it's worth pursuing with something more refined (read: pricey)

Only problem I saw with the $10 options is that they appeared to all be the heavy trackers............still?

I think it might be worth a shot. Do you do any 78s? Wire it for MONO with a big conical and I bet it'll blow your socks off

[SEAWOLF97]

Did you order/decide on a nail for this one, or is the project still pending?

Try a $10 one and just road test it on something not so rare or valuable; might not be the best way to judge all that it's capable of, but it'll surely give you some idea of if it's worth pursuing with something more refined (read: pricey)

Only problem I saw with the $10 options is that they appeared to all be the heavy trackers............still?

I think it might be worth a shot. Do you do any 78s? Wire it for MONO with a big conical and I bet it'll blow your socks off

haven't had the time to try it , but wondering IF the stylus from the 880p wud work for testing in the 888 ve ?

78's ? have you been following me ? yesterday I had a stack of "like new" 78's in sleeves , Tex Ritter and other cowboys and some Japanese works from the 50's. Musta been 15 pounds of them. I'm just not up on what's got value in 78's and so did not buy.

I do have an Ortophon OM78 cart with great stylus, but no real media to use it on ... so off to CL.

[Wagner]

haven't had the time to try it , but wondering IF the stylus from the 880p wud work for testing in the 888 ve ?

78's ? have you been following me ? yesterday I had a stack of "like new" 78's in sleeves , Tex Ritter and other cowboys and some Japanese works from the 50's. Musta been 15 pounds of them. I'm just not up on what's got value in 78's and so did not buy.

I do have an Ortophon OM78 cart with great stylus, but no real media to use it on ... so off to CL.
Two different designs entirely, one being a "captive" fit, the other the more traditional friction fit

Who knows? Might work, as in good enough to try (and make noise), but no way no how anywhere close to being the right stylus

With SHUREs there's a lot of tips that can be made to fit with a little trimming of the plastic etc as the working parts and magnet placement are the same, but with these two model Empires up for discussion I wouldn't try it, but IF you do, definitely only with a sacrificial disc in case things go south

Problem is, if it pulls out or otherwise, you might ruin your working stylus being a cheapskate and then you're dead in the water with both of 'em

We're talking $10 bucks dude, I think Voice of Music has a Pfanstiehl heavy tracker for 9 and change:
http://www.thevoiceofmusic.com/catalog/part_detail.asp?PNumberBase=232&SearchType=MfgNameNeedles&MfgName=Empire&Categories=

Gary's a good guy and he'll tell you straight up if it's worth a shit (with these oldie goldies they're not all the current problematic Swiss made copies; those apply primarily for the more advanced profile SHURE type cuts)

[SEAWOLF97]

Anybody looking for the 1973 JBL two disk LP release of "Sessions"
here is a reasonably priced copy. Yes, I know the seller. He's good.

http://www.discogs.com/sell/item/294873271


Tracklist
Loudspeaker Definition Test
A1 –Larry Phillips Insight
A2 –Rosmini* / Ruskin* Patriarch And Blind
A3 –Unknown Artist Insight
A4 –Alex Harvey (2) Devil On My Shoulder
A5 –Unknown Artist Insight
A6 –Alex Richman It Doesn't Have To Be Wrong

Loudspeaker Coloration Test
B1 –Unknown Artist Low Frequency Demonstration
B2 –Unknown Artist High Frequency Demonstration
B3 –Paul Parrish Popular Insturments (Drums - Bass + Bass Drum - Piano - Guitar) / Piano Theme
B4 –Unknown Artist Symphonic Insturments (Bass - Cello - Viola - Violin - Tympani - Bass Flute - Alto Flute - Oboe - English Horn)

Studio Insight - 16 Track Recording
C1 –Various Set-up
C2 –Various Balance & Rehearsal
C3 –Various Take 7
C4 –Various Playback

Studio Insight - 16 Track To Stereo Mixdown
D1 –Unknown Artist Individual Tracks, Drum, Guitar
D2 –Unknown Artist Bass, Piano, Vocal
D3 –Unknown Artist Equalization
D4 –Unknown Artist Echo
D5 –Unknown Artist Stereo Balance
D6 –Hoyt Axton Captain America
D7 –Hoyt Axton Joy To The World

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ringo-starrs-personal-white-album-sells-for-world-record-910-000-20151205

[Wagner]

.
http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ringo-starrs-personal-white-album-sells-for-world-record-910-000-20151205
Yeah, there's been some pretty amazing Beatle's relate auctions as of late
Yoko Ono has been cashing in on a lot of John's shit the past couple years or so (all in the name of "charity")

As for the "White Album" ("The Beatles") I know of at least 4 that are all legit that have the No. 1 embossed on the cover; I think that more than a few were made. Don't know about Ringo's (I'm sure it was a U.K. Parlophone pressing) but here in the states there was no logic or sequential numbering of the title thanks in large part to the the fact that Capitol had several pressing plants and at least two vendors to fill demand around this time. Also, each U.S. pressing plant had a different "prefix" so the same number(s) can be found, albeit with a different prefix)

The suppliers of covers actually became a bone of contention with the Beatles, and if you take notice, "Abby Road" was the first and only cover not supplied with two board covers joined with the paper wrap which had been the norm up and until then

Like stamp collecting, you can make a hobby acquiring all of the "Abby Road" cover variations, including but not limited to the cover graphics (centering of the photos and ink tint) and print on the back (track listings)

Trying to locate the article now about all the cover(s) hubbub

[SEAWOLF97]

As for the "White Album" ("The Beatles") ...

As a Beatles appreciator (lesser level than fan) , the "WhiteAlbum" is more of a single than double to me.
One of the disks (forget which) has such poor content (actually both did) , that I never really gave entire disks play time. Unknown as to why it's such a milestone ?

About about half the tracks are listenable (to me) , but did make OK comp tapes.

NOT MINE !!!!

Lenco L78 Record Player Turntable Used - $260 (n.e. portland)

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5342548030.html

[Wagner]

As a Beatles appreciator (lesser level than fan) , the "WhiteAlbum" is more of a single than double to me.
One of the disks (forget which) has such poor content (actually both did) , that I never really gave entire disks play time. Unknown as to why it's such a milestone ?

About about half the tracks are listenable (to me) , but did make OK comp tapes.

NOT MINE !!!!

Lenco L78 Record Player Turntable Used - $260 (n.e. portland)

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5342548030.html
You are definitely a one of a kind, there ain't but ONE that's for sure

I'm a hardcore Beatles fan and personally think "The Beatles" is one of the finest records they ever made (of course they never did make a bad one) It clearly demonstrates on 4 sides just how diverse and gifted those guys could be together, even in the middle of a nasty divorce (if there was ever any doubt)

Those guys could do it all

Next to "Abbey Road", I think it's the best of the bunch with "Rubber Soul" and "Revolver" coming pretty damn close (but from two different times in their development as a band)

Not unlike the sacred Jazz cow "icon", Coltrane's "Love Supreme", "Sgt, Pepper's" is the one I could really give a shit for; I could easily live without it...........and this coming from a "fan boy" who owns probably a least 4 pressings of everything they ever did and who grew up with them

[SEAWOLF97]

I'm a hardcore Beatles fan and personally think "The Beatles" is one of the finest records they ever made (of course they never did make a bad one) It clearly demonstrates on 4 sides just how diverse and gifted those guys could be together, even in the middle of a nasty divorce (if there was ever any doubt)

you listen to: ?

Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (they purchased it and as a group detested it)
Wild Honey Pie (yuk)
The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill (WOT)
Rocky Racoon (another WOT)
Why Don't We Do It In The Road?
Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey
Helter Skelter
Honey Pie
Revolution 9

yeah man, that's fine stuff :(


"Rubber Soul" and "Revolver" coming pretty damn close (but from two different times in their development as a band)

those 2 albums came out of the same sessions

[Wagner]

you listen to: ?

Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da (they purchased it and as a group detested it)
Wild Honey Pie (yuk)
The Continuing Story Of Bungalow Bill (WOT)
Rocky Racoon (another WOT)
Why Don't We Do It In The Road?
Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except Me And My Monkey
Helter Skelter
Honey Pie
Revolution 9

yeah man, that's fine stuff :(



those 2 albums came out of the same sessions

Not 100% sure what "WOT" is supposed to mean, but if you dislike, or even have disdain for those tunes you listed then all I can say is, that in my OPINION, your taste in music pretty much sucks http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/duck.gif ..................regardless, you definitely ain't no Beatles fan (unless you're just into the Mop Tops/Fab Four) output

I'll give you a pass on Revolution #9, but being a "song" wasn't the point of that one anyway

But I still love you though regardless! http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/smile.gif


those 2 albums came out of the same sessions

Not exactly true/accurate, but so what? Common practice back during a time when record companies actually still called the shots, especially with their cash cows, The Beatles being no exception at that time. '65 - '66 was back in the day when double albums were a hard sell as far as the guys in the grey suits were concerned and the Brit releases had a different track listing than ours on top of that; Capitol Records managed to milk 3 albums out of it (the two)

The level of sophistication that evolved between just those those two master pieces (inside barely a year) is a degree of talent in "Pop"/"Rock"/"Folk" (or whatever you choose to call contemporary music) the World hasn't seen in a long long time and probably never will again, both musically and production wise

That's he beauty of the Beatles; no two albums were alike as was the case with so many bands of the day (and in so short a period of time) How many bands have done what they did in what was essentially 6 and 1/2 years?

I agree with John Lennon; "The Beatles" was arguably the best record they ever made, despite it all, musically speaking. It's got it all. Only "Abby Road" comes close if not as good or better (and for me, it's a tie but for different reasons)

Like particular titles or not, it really is an amazing thing that arguments and discussions can be had about a band that NEVER made a BAD, non new ground breaking record period. Pretty cool in my book.

And that doesn't even include the singles of stellar quality like "Revolution" (the original), "Old Brown Shoe" and "Lady Madonna" (plus about an album's worth of others)
THAT'S another whole kettle of fish!

[Wagner]

Unknown as to why it's such a milestone ?

You're not the Lone Ranger with that opinion of the record (and I understand, and respect that, the why of it, I just don't share the view); lots of folks have a problem with it musically, for one as it demonstrated for the first time, beyond ANY doubt, that the Beatles were actually FOUR very talented individuals in their own right and not just some homogeneous, cookie cutter "show biz" act "everyone" had come to expect of them (beyond the obvious developing signature sounds that let anyone with ears recognize who the principle song writer was on any given track) as is obvious readily apparent on "Rubber Soul" and "Revolver". By 1968, this "individuality" was beyond depute and it caused a lot of grief for a lot of fans (and dick heads at the record label as well) I think a whole lot of folks just felt as if the "Mop Tops" would go on forever. Works for giants like Sinatra (rarely), but no so much (well seldom anyway) for "bands"

But despite the musical differences between them and the personal frictions developing (and the fact that they were all approaching their 30s), they could still turn out some of the finest Rock and Roll records ever committed to vinyl when they put their minds to it, hands down; good, bad or ugly, those four guys were the consummate professionals when it came to making good records (and more importantly MUSIC) Broke a lot of new ground and created a lot of things never heard on a "pop" record, or in the studio, before, not deliberately, but just being the small squad that they were with George Martin as the first lieutenant

So for me, "The Beatles" was a breath of fresh air, not that there were any flies on any of their others. Just a shame that there was so much drama attached to it.

People (other "artists") have been stealing their ideas for decades now and I don't really see any end in sight for that ever not being the case any time soon

Kind of sad that all of this talent didn't quite carry over in the same fashion when they all went "solo"; not to the same, and consistent degree anyway

[SEAWOLF97]

"Sgt, Pepper's" is the one I could really give a shit for; I could easily live without it..........

From the same-ish time period , I prefer the much maligned TSMR over SP. "2,000 Light Years from Home" resonates with me. That's about how far from home I was during those years. Another that resonates is Grand Funk's "Closer to Home/I'm your Captain". My nano seems to usually play it on the homeward bound legs of my bike outings.

I don't care if you disagree about tunes/groups, but no need to inject attacks.

[Wagner]

I don't care if you disagree about tunes/groups, but no need to inject attacks.
Just now saw this
Was not aware that I had "attacked" you?
I did rag on you with one line that concluded with a "smiley face"
Best I can do on the internet to let you know I was only pulling your leg
If I gave you the impression that I was on the "attack" then I am sorry for that
Was only jiving (I don't "attack" people for what they do or don't like musically)
Sorry for any misunderstandings

Thomas

[SEAWOLF97]

along with vinyl prices, the gougers are trying to make rent off TT's :(
isn't that WAAYYY higher than new ?

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5391544371.html

Awesome Technics SL-1650 Direct Drive Turntable
ADC K8 cart

Works and looks excellent

some very minor scuffs on lid
previous owner name engraved on rear
probably ready for a new mat

Has original box and styrofoam

$400

[Wagner]

along with vinyl prices, the gougers are trying to make rent off TT's :(
isn't that WAAYYY higher than new ?

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5391544371.html

Awesome Technics SL-1650 Direct Drive Turntable
ADC K8 cart

Works and looks excellent

some very minor scuffs on lid
previous owner name engraved on rear
probably ready for a new mat

Has original box and styrofoam

$400
Too much for the "1650" unless you're hot for a changer (in this condition)
(I love AND own the models in this NON quartz-lock series)
Takes a moderate amount of effort and at least $100 bucks to get them in "top" shape
These ALMOST always need feet too
I believe the "16xx" models enjoyed a suspended design versus the solid plinth like the "1300", "1400" and "1500" did, so the footer comment may not apply (not sure what the feet are like); Technics made a lot of variations on the basic design of the original "1200" over the years

Several of the incarnations had bad cue/lift assembly design issues (read: TOO MUCH PLASTIC) and are difficult at times to repair; another reason I like the earlier versions (they seldom have an arm lift issue beyond needing new damping lubrication)

My son's SL-1300 is beautiful now, sitting on some SL-1200MkII footers I stumbled across new at only $10 bucks a pop last year! That'll never happen again! I went through the whole machine, caps, cables et al................

All that said? If he has the accessories and long spindle he could very well realize $400 for that one, but more realistically, unrestored, rough, engraved AND dirty?, around $150-$200 tops

They are some damn fine sounding tables with a little effort

I had a bunch of Technics information (on all the consumer, "pro-sumer" variations) I accumulated while rebuilding two tables last year and of course I put it somewhere so I'd know where it was......................and now, can't find it

[SEAWOLF97]

http://www.oregonlive.com/music/index.ssf/2014/11/inside_the_vinyl_revival.html#incart_article_small


Inside Discogs, Beaverton's $100 million record store

http://www.oregonlive.com/music/index.ssf/2015/12/inside_discogs_beaverton_100_million.html#incart_r elated_stories

[SEAWOLF97]

.
SOTA STAR VACUUM SERIES V SME 309 VDH MC-10 SPECIAL - $2200

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5399517541.html

[Wagner]

They used to build SOTA tables right down the road from me
Went bankrupt in 1997 (or at least had some financial difficulties which forced them into a restructuring and relocation)
http://www.furious.com/perfect/vinyl93.html
The new/old ownership are very nice people and are very responsive to inquiry
I wrote them asking about the models appearing in the TV series "House"

I have had the chance to see more than a few and hear them as well, being so close to their original factory
They are certainly nice tables, but I think are a bit finicky and dated

They sound VERY good when they are working

I would never pay the prices they ask for a SOTA and I personally am not a fan of their high MDF content
It's one of those designs out of the late '80s - '90s that seemed like a great idea at the time

Nowadays, it's all about "high density polymers", Plexiglas and all sorts of other "high tech" materials, constrained layers etc et al......................which in my world just means, aka: PLASTIC

Note too, like almost every "high-end" company on the planet, they clone the REGA:
http://www.sotaturntables.com/newtables/moonbeam.htm
I'll take the real deal with the crummy float glass over the plastic, thank you very much

Not a fan of suspended decks in general with SOTAs being no exception. In all fairness, the new ownership (for some time now) does offer a lot of "up graded" parts and a "VPI" or "Linn like" endless up upgrade path as well. For me, a good turntable doesn't have to be such a complicated proposition. To each his own.

There was always at least one broken down example upon every visit to the "Analog Room" with something not working or warped, sagging or dragging

[Wagner]

shortly after I posted:


This posting has been deleted by its author.
(The title on the listings page will be removed in just a few minutes.)


maybe sold quickly ? not to me. Happy wit what I gots (unless a great deal happens along :) )

Not surprising (I checked your listing and saw too that it was gone)
They are definitely viable as far as I can tell (expensive too, both to buy and maintain), and clearly someone likes them
I'm just not amongst their ranks

[SEAWOLF97]

.
as part of an estate.

reading up on it, seems unique as it has a second, but counter rotating motor/platter. Anybody
ever heard of this ?

[Don C]

The sota turntables have a MDF sub-chassis. Since the platter assembly is very heavy, the sub-chassis warps over time, resulting in the platter and tonearm operating in different planes. It's a fundamentally flawed design. Not recommended. They do sound great when they are new.



.
SOTA STAR VACUUM SERIES V SME 309 VDH MC-10 SPECIAL - $2200

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5399517541.html

[Wagner]

The sota turntables have a MDF sub-chassis. Since the platter assembly is very heavy, the sub-chassis warps over time, resulting in the platter and tonearm operating in different planes. It's a fundamentally flawed design. Not recommended. They do sound great when they are new.
It is not the design that is fundamentally flawed, rather the execution

After a visit to their current site, it is readily apparent that every part on an elder SOTA now enjoys a new and improved replacement part option/incarnation for a price

I do not know the particulars but they MAY have addressed some of the original design's shortcomings materials wise

The late '80s thru '90s all acrylic suspended designs from makers whose names you'll never hear again (one was from the U.K. and escapes me now) suffered the same fate: sagging, warping and cracking over time

[SEAWOLF97]

.
as part of an estate.

reading up on it, seems unique as it has a second, but counter rotating motor/platter. Anybody
ever heard of this ?

well, I got busy today cleaning gutters and maint b4 next big rain storm , so instead of riding I tested out some of the gear from the estate I purchased yesterday.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?17712-Speaker-Safari&p=385853&viewfull=1#post385853

maggies = YES
ESS AMT's = YES
Sansui XP-99 = YES.

got the Sansui playing right now. Tho it only has an M91ED, that thing sounds pretty sweet. maybe there is something to that dual motor/platter system ? MITE be a keeper :)

[Wagner]

got the Sansui playing right now. Tho it only has an M91ED, that thing sounds pretty sweet. maybe there is something to that dual motor/platter system ? MITE be a keeper :)

DO NOT underestimate the SHURE M91ED
It is capable of giving plenty of moving coils costing thousands a run for their money with the right stylus

As for the Sansui? It's a winner but heavy on the chips (ICs)
It also employs an arm control belt

IF you are not willing to re-cap it and service the belt, AND everything is currently working as it should I would suggest you sell it; get it while the gettin's good

On the other hand, if you do decide to keep it, NOT re-capping it could prove to be a big mistake; once the electronics start getting wacky on those old Sansuis it can be a real bitch to get them back right again

You can re-cap that one with Panasonic "FC"s for less than $25 bucks easy

It is a very nice table (just a little on the light side due to base construction, like the similar DENONs from the same period) with a decent arm

Easy to work on too, thanks to the modular layout design with plenty of slack in the flying leads

The counter rotating platter allegedly negates the need for a super heavy plinth:
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQV-Xtt5Bk4KAILenmlCn43TGc4fYb6nSlrAcUNt2-8-6QCdTZL

[SEAWOLF97]

It is a very nice table (just a little on the light side due to base construction, like the similar DENONs from the same period) with a decent arm

It sat on my wifs lap on the trip home and she complained about how heavy it is. I looked it up on Vinyl Engine and they put it at 20 pounds. So not a lightweight, but a lot less than my 30 pound Denon.

Thanx for the info about the caps/IC's. I may get back to your when ready to do it.

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5415016731.html

[Wagner]

.
http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5415016731.html
No, they didn't
It's another contract job from the maker "CEC" like 95% of all the lower to middle of the road line up of tables from that period from just about EVERYBODY (think the Marantz "6100" as just one example)

Technics did a lot of contract work as well, most notably for J.C. Penney's MCS line and a few others, but nothing like "CEC"

So no, "BLOSE" didn't make turntables

http://www.cec-international.com/pages/s01.html

It was just a cheap "round out" product for their all in one "360" system. Bears a striking resemblance to the Pioneer PL12 except for the arm used (Pioneer used "CEC" too!)

http://worldwide.bose.com/productsupport/en_us/web/360/page.html (http://worldwide.bose.com/productsupport/en_us/web/360/page.html)

Micro Seiki was the primary contract supplier and OEM supplier for the higher up models............and again, in typical Jap style, for just about everybody

[Ducatista47]

This article is from last May, and I hope things are better now.

http://www.factmag.com/2015/05/07/pressed-to-the-edge-vinyl/

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://www.wired.com/2016/01/alastair-wiper-record-industry/?google_editors_picks=true#slide-1

[Wagner]

This article is from last May, and I hope things are better now.

http://www.factmag.com/2015/05/07/pressed-to-the-edge-vinyl/

Yet another bull shit, fluff piece article filled with half truths and clearly the all too not not so thinly veiled bias against the format

Talk about "couched" agendas; the "information" is not even accurate; there are viable alternatives to the acetates (lacquers) situation and the "problem" is currently being addressed...........so what? It is simply a matter of financial investment required to solve the problem and there are more than a few willing and able to do so (and more importantly, they are doing it). "Writers", bloggers and so called "journalists" are using the situation as it has (d)evolved over the past 30 years to somehow doom to failure the current and future resurgence of the format. Yes, it will take a few years to get a semi-dormant manufacturing process back up to speed, where's the "news" in that?

There just seems a lot of people who insist on denying the TRUTH, for whatever the reason; that the Lp NEVER went away and isn't going to do so for a long long time. I have no idea why this FACT just continues to give them so much grief.
It's almost as if some folks take it's staying power and popular appeal personally? For what ever the reason(s)
The Lp is going to outlive the CD, same as it did the Compact Cassette, the Mini Disc, DAT/R-DAT and all of the others. Like it or not, wish they may, wish they might, I'd be willing to bet the Lp's going to be good for at least another 50 years if not more

See page #11 (and others) of this thread for the links to other articles and videos regarding the useless LP versus CD discussion that dispel most if not all of this "article's" claims

And like I wrote, those are but a few, the "tip of the iceberg" as it were

The greatest (real) potential problem facing the resurgent Lp manufacturing business in this country is our own intrusive USELESS EPA (just ask the folks in Flint, Michigan about what a great job that regulatory bureaucracy does for the billions of dollars we pour into it)

Can't manufacture the vinyl pellets needed here anymore

That and meeting DEMAND, both from the independents AND the major labels

Got nothing better to do than troll? At least come up with a fresh topic

[SEAWOLF97]

Bull shit article filled with half truths and clearly the all too not not so thinly veiled bias against the format

yup.

If plating is the bottleneck, seems like the market will fill that void.




The Lp is going to outlive the CD, same as it did the Compact Cassette, the Mini Disc, DAT/R-DAT and all of the others. Like it or not, wish they may, wish they might, I'd be willing to bet the Lp's going to be good for at least another 50 years if not more

MDs still live & thrive around here. Great format that never really caught on.

When dubbing a CD to MD it can actually improve with the better DAC. When demoing my surplus pair of 250Ti's, I put on a MD dub of "V for Vendetta" ST. Buyer asked how I'd found a SACD of that to play for him :)

[Wagner]

MDs still live & thrive around here. Great format that never really caught on.

When dubbing a CD to MD it can actually improve with the better DAC. When demoing my surplus pair of 250Ti's, I put on a MD dub of "V for Vendetta" ST. Buyer asked how I'd found a SACD of that to play for him :)
Yeah, SONY has always done some weird shit when it came to new product launches, when and what it did and didn't promote, import and advertise for (like getting the word out about some really GREAT stuff)

They made some of the best top drawer turntables going (compared to those made by ANYONE at equivalent price points) there towards the end (right around the time of the birth of the CD, as in really taking over the market) You'd never even know some of those models even existed unless you were/are into SONY...................and a lot of their best stuff never even left Japan

Made some great tonearms, all "in house" stuff. They were doing VTA and Bias on the fly way before it was cool with the Audiophool crowd. I am lucky to own one

Made some killer integrated amps, pre-amps and receivers too that you rarely see or hear about today when compared to the silver faced Pioneers and Marantz product from the same time frame with build and performance quality over the top

They had a weird habit in the '80s too of launching competing products and formats that only really competed with themselves (and further confused the typical consumer market demographic)

For a company that excellent with the resources they had and the prowess they once enjoyed in the game (and name recognition), their timing on a lot of things really really sucked............as if at times they were struggling with just exactly what they wanted their identity to be and how to define it..........maybe too big, too fast?

Some of the best equipment I have ever owned was real, upper line, Made in Japan SONY from the late '70s through the mid '80s. One plus is that if you ever do luck up and come across any of it, it'll usually be cheap, as in "sleeper" cheap due to not enjoying all the hype like the big Pioneers etc

On the opposite end of that spectrum, all the thrift stores around here price anything ("new") SONY as if it were gold, including the cheap ass throw away black plastic crap stuff made today in Malaysia, china and Indonesia

[SEAWOLF97]

You'd never even know some of those models even existed unless you were/are into SONY...................and a lot of their best stuff never even left Japan

I spent abt 3 years in Asia* and have been back many times.

That's the funny part. The majority of hard gear that they produced never made it to the US. Some of it, well, the technology wasn't seen here until years later.
The downside was that many G.I.'s bought gear and sometime later needed repair. Fixer guys had never seen it or had access to schems.

I think the PX's were the most major customers for TEAC & Pioneer for a while.

Dad had funny habits for a doctor. He'd frequent pawn shops and being very observant, when nice gear was hauled in for prospective sale and declined, he'd follow the seller outside and make a better offer than the store made. worked often.

MD's ? Minidisks ? Absolutely love them. 80/160/320 minutes per disk (depending on compression) . Portables ? 52 hours playback on a single AA. 100,000 re-writes per disk..OKAY. Quality is great.

BUT, if you bought into L-cassette, mite as well open a museum. :(

*Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, Hong Kong, China, Philippians, Vietnam....

[Wagner]

I spent abt 3 years in Asia* and have been back many times.

That's the funny part. The majority of hard gear that they produced never made it to the US. Some of it, well, the technology wasn't seen here until years later.
The downside was that many G.I.'s bought gear and sometime later needed repair. Fixer guys had never seen it or had access to schems.

I think the PX's were the most major customers for TEAC & Pioneer for a while.

Dad had funny habits for a doctor. He'd frequent pawn shops and being very observant, when nice gear was hauled in for prospective sale and declined, he'd follow the seller outside and make a better offer than the store made. worked often.

MD's ? Minidisks ? Absolutely love them. 80/160/320 minutes per disk (depending on compression) . Portables ? 52 hours playback on a single AA. 100,000 re-writes per disk..OKAY. Quality is great.

BUT, if you bought into L-cassette, mite as well open a museum. :(

*Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, Hong Kong, China, Philippians, Vietnam....
Good stories, interesting post
KENWOOD was pretty good about making their top of the line stuff "sort of" interchangeable
The models as offered to servicemen over seas often looked VERY different cosmetically but had guts they could have serviced (straight across, the same insides) once back home
A LOT of the really good looking (better looking than U.S.A. and that says a lot, they made some handsome pieces) are fairly rare vintage KENWOOD equipment intended for sale only to servicemen

I always enjoy finding old pieces from the over seas "PX"s if they're good models as much of the time it also enjoys a better, and switchable, power supply to accommodate the different mains voltages

My eldest brother (two tours: Vietnam) bought his share; big ass Sansui electronics, ARs and the old Garrard "Zero 100" which was the shit back in '71-'72 or thereabouts

The Sansui was still at the house along with the ARs (the Garrard too, but broke down in the attic) when both my parents died in '98 (I had kept those going for my parents with Radio Shack drivers and homemade adapter rings for their three times a year record playing events) Didn't have/know about the refoam option back then.
AR-3a(s) ; - (
Really regret not shipping that one back "home" out here in Kalifornia and re-capping it; don't remember the model but I do know it was the biggest receiver they made the year he bought it, thing probably weighed in at 45-50 pounds with a shit load of those push button switches they used just begging for some DeOxit! My brother had no interest in it and said sure, take it if you want it. I didn't, left it behind in the care of my prick youngest brother who we basically gave the home place to for peanuts................

Ah well; sad part is, it's probably in a landfill now (long story, bad story, siblings, no will......................you get the picture)

[SEAWOLF97]

I bought a pair of AR3's at a sale (1972) . (couldn't afford $273 X2 for L-100's)

Made on East Coast, but, the box had shipping destination of PX, Nha Trang VN
so shipped to PDX from there.
Years later I shipped to a friend in ...OZ.

so they crossed the Pacific ....3x , in good condition too. :)

[Wagner]

I bought a pair of AR3's at a sale (1972) . (couldn't afford $273 X2 for L-100's)

Made on East Coast, but, the box had shipping destination of PX, Nha Trang VN
so shipped to PDX from there.
Years later I shipped to a friend in ...OZ.

so they crossed the Pacific ....3x , in good condition too. :)
Too bad you don't still have them, AR-3s in good to excellent original condition will easily bring 2 to 3x what L100s will on the used market today (if you were inclined to sell)! Especially if they are the "non a" version with the woofers with cloth surrounds.

[SEAWOLF97]

Too bad you don't still have them, AR-3s in good to excellent original condition will easily bring 2 to 3x what L100s will on the used market today (if you were inclined to sell)! Especially if they are the "non a" version with the woofers with cloth surrounds.

I've HAD 3's, 3A's, 2's, 4's, TRS's ..HAD being the operative word. The 3's, while having LOTS of bass, the highs were weak.

the pots were another weak spot. I ordered new ones and went to replace. They were not accessible except through the LF cutout. worked in there with an iron and light ...felt like a heart surgeon. ... . Drew out the wiring diagram on the first pot. No problem. BUT then the second one was wired completely differently. :(

Been very happy with my ESS AMT bookshelves. got a second pair this week. in the 70's they were $324 each. A good $50 more each than L-100's , and a 2 way 10 incher at that.

first pair of Century's were $4. Rehabbed and still running daily for my son :)

[Wagner]

I have posted it here before, but since you mentioned it:
If you, or anyone else, has any of those old 16 ohm Aetna-Pollak pots and they're giving you trouble, send them to me and I will happily make them as good if not better than new

No Charge (except postage)

That of course if abuse hasn't burned away the wiper or ham-fisted wrenching of the control to "clear things up" hasn't destroyed the wire windings

There are no comparable level controls available today, at least not for a reasonable sum (of which I am aware) that will work the same as the originals
Although substituting modern L-pads will work (I've had to do it a few times) using them WILL change the sound of the speaker

Always save the originals if possible when restoring old ARs; there are lubricants available today that when applied to these old pots will restore them in such a way as to give you years of reliable, smooth (and quiet) operation when properly cleaned and retensioned

[SEAWOLF97]

I have posted it here before, but since you mentioned it:
If you, or anyone else, has any of those old 16 ohm Aetna-Pollak pots and they're giving you trouble, send them to me and I will happily make them as good if not better than new

No Charge (except postage)

that's a gracious offer. I replaced those pots in the late 70's , before we even knew of refoaming
rather than replacing drivers.

AFAIR, bought them straight from AR .... $10 each/pair* ? Still have some of the tweets in a box ..somewhere.

* that was expensive when a new balance scale was only $1.50 from AR.

[Wagner]

I replaced those pots in the late 70's , before we even knew of refoaming
rather than replacing drivers.
AFAIR, bought them straight from AR .... $10 each/pair* ?
* that was expensive when a new balance scale was only $1.50 from AR.

Well take a look at this, don't think those true rheostats have ever been "cheap" (the closest sub I have ever found for the real deal):
http://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Ohmite/RHS15RE/?qs=DDepb57Y54aReF2Pkpnv1A%3D%3D&gclid=CMiD9fqqyMoCFYeBfgodq20ICQ

Now, take a look at what the "green" "RoHS" horse shit does for the price:
http://www.newark.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Search?catalogId=15003&langId=-1&storeId=10194&categoryName=All%20Categories&selectedCategoryId=&gs=true&st=RHS15RE

Save the f'ing world, one potentiometer at a time

Interesting too that typically with Mouser it's the other way round, the NON RoHS stuff is cheaper so they can move it out before it obsolesces, Newark punishes you!

[SEAWOLF97]

Awesome counterweighted Turntable Record Player - $100 (Milwaukie)

how awesome is that ? don't think I've ever seen a counterweighted one before ;)

http://portland.craigslist.org/mlt/ele/5421784165.html

Selling off an excellent condition American DJ counter weighted turntable with an Audio Technica cartridge. This table sounds just as good as my Dual CS 5000 table. It has been setup perfectly and ready to go. I also have a nice sounding vintage phono preamp I can throw in for an extra 20 bucks.
Serious buyers only.
$100

Oh wait, I can't answer his ad .... I'm NOT serious :(

[SEAWOLF97]

.
IMHO, this is the best of the local record shows :D

[BMWCCA]

Some of you may have had a passing interest in the AK discussion of the low-priced TEAC TN-300 turntable. Retail price is $399 in the US but recently a seller in Brooklyn has had the Turquoise model offered on Ebay for $229. After selling over 200 items, the price suddenly jumped to $279. Most likely after the sales pace dropped off, the seller must have realized the Turquoise was not the draw, but the price was. Now it's dropped to $199, including shipping, cartridge, switchable internal pre-amp, and USB output.

There was plenty of drama over on AK about the specs and the value, and even the provenance, but no one who has purchased one has complained. And now, at $199 even I took the plunge to use it in a system, somewhere, and to convert vinyl to digital files when the spirit moves me. Anyone needing a spare, or just getting back into vinyl, might want to have a look (http://www.ebayitem.com/311485990508).

Disclaimer: I have no connection with the seller or the maker, but I do like a good bargain!

[Wagner]

Rasputin likes it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LOZm-yFPpY

I was waiting for "dez onlee peez in plastick iz a d.....broken"

Yummy:
http://www.teac.com/content/downloads/products/930/tn-300_om_efsginlsv_ve.pdf

Available with an "S" arm:
http://teac.jp/product/tn-350/

Can't figure out this 47,700 chinese yuan price though! (¥ to usd converter):
(http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-TN-350-CH-TEAC-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B0%E3%82%BF%E3%8 3%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%86%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%E3%83%AB-%E3%83%81%E3%82%A7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC/dp/B00P2ABMJG)http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%86%E3.../dp/B00P2ABMJG (http://www.amazon.co.jp/%E3%83%86%E3%82%A3%E3%82%A2%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF-TN-350-CH-TEAC-%E3%82%A2%E3%83%8A%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B0%E3%82%BF%E3%8 3%BC%E3%83%B3%E3%83%86%E3%83%BC%E3%83%96%E3%83%AB-%E3%83%81%E3%82%A7%E3%83%AA%E3%83%BC/dp/B00P2ABMJG)

http://www.amazon.com/TEAC-analog-turntable-Cherry-TN-350-CH/dp/B00P2ABMJG (http://www.amazon.com/TEAC-analog-turntable-Cherry-TN-350-CH/dp/B00P2ABMJG)

[BMWCCA]

Price is now . . . $399! :eek:

[Wagner]

No :eek: here
That's what happens to the price of things (and loss leader pricing) when people run their mouths about them on the interweb

It goes UP (but in this instance I could care less)

As for this new TEAC piece of shit? It's a toy; I wouldn't pay $3.99 for it much less $399.00
(wait, I take that back, I would pay up to $20 for it, as long as that includes the shipping, to get the Audio-Technica cart off of it and then be able to drive over the rest of the thing with my old red '94 turbo brick) Maybe become a youtube sensation or something? Who the hell knows?!

Another chinese wall wart powered DC motor USB/on-board phono stage plastic piece of throwaway crap

And yet ANOTHER REGA clone

Only part of it worth owning is the old reliable Audio-Technica AT95E (and it's kin as found on 99% of all "TSO"s), the salvation of all the chinese peddlers of Turntable Shaped Objects, and even these guys (though it appears they're bowing under pressure from the GRADO piss poor tracking and hum job lobby with their "up grade" options):
http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/orbit-basic-turntable

(I'll take an Audio-Technica ANY day, God Bless their hearts)

What they can do today with the molding of plastic is INSANE, how they can make complex forms and shapes out of re-cycled milk jugs that actually looks amazing.................like most of the new econoshitbox cars

An illusion

I am certain they will sell them by the boat load (literally)

[BMWCCA]

It could also be the best value in a turntable in the under $500 class. But how would you ever know?

The reality is this firm first offered this table at $229, a $170 discount from list, sold over 200 from word-of-mouth driven by references on several audio forums, then raised the price to $279, then days later dropped it to $199. So, I'm not sure how your maxim applies here.

Over 250 individuals purchased from this vender alone. I doubt my running my mouth, or your verbal diarrhea, had any influence on Ebay sales rates. I personally thanked the forum member who brought the original sale to my attention. Is there a reason to keep it a secret? Just like the LSR305 deal in red I mentioned here, I hoped others would be able to have some fun with them. I don't really get what your problem is with that. But, of course, you had to comment, use your childish scatological language, and put your personal dislike for me over the enjoyment of everyone in this group. Why?

Respectable on-line retailers, some of whom also operate substantial brick-and-mortar outlets, have posted very favorable 100% five-star ratings from their customers on this table at the $399 price. At $199, shipping included, and with the 95e cartridge, it's a great deal for someone wanting an extra table, their first table, or the USB functionality offered.

You have every right not to buy one. I hope someone else here did have the chance. Mine arrived today, less than 60-hours after hitting the purchase button, double-boxed, factory sealed, and in perfect condition. The setup was easy and it's been playing quite nicely now for about an hour.

Please go rain on someone else's parade.




No :eek: here
That's what happens to the price of things (and loss leader pricing) when people run their mouths about them on the interweb

It goes UP (but in this instance I could care less)

As for this new TEAC piece of shit? It's a toy; I wouldn't pay $3.99 for it much less $399.00
(wait, I take that back, I would pay up to $20 for it, as long as that includes the shipping, to get the Audio-Technica cart off of it and then be able to drive over the rest of the thing with my old red '94 turbo brick) Maybe become a youtube sensation or something? Who the hell knows?!

Another chinese wall wart powered DC motor USB/on-board phono stage plastic piece of throwaway crap

And yet ANOTHER REGA clone

Only part of it worth owning is the old reliable Audio-Technica AT95E (and it's kin as found on 99% of all "TSO"s), the salvation of all the chinese peddlers of Turntable Shaped Objects, and even these guys (though it appears they're bowing under pressure from the GRADO piss poor tracking and hum job lobby with their "up grade" options):
http://store.uturnaudio.com/products/orbit-basic-turntable

(I'll take an Audio-Technica ANY day, God Bless their hearts)

What they can do today with the molding of plastic is INSANE, how they can make complex forms and shapes out of re-cycled milk jugs that actually looks amazing.................like most of the new econoshitbox cars

An illusion

I am certain they will sell them by the boat load (literally)

[Wagner]

It could also be the best value in a turntable in the under $500 class. But how would you ever know?
I don't really get what your problem is with that. But, of course, you had to comment, use your childish scatological language, and put your personal dislike for me over the enjoyment of everyone in this group. Why?
My comments were not tailor made or intended for you only, that's some presumption

I said what I said because I can SEE, and that table "is what it is" in every sense of the word, another Hanpin (or similar OEM) type, MTO chinese special

I would not play any Lps of value or worth on that deck with that arm (nothing that I cared about anyway) and what you think, or a 1,000 or a 1,000,000 other people think, or do or buy has anything to do with my reasons for not doing so

I MIGHT consider a deck like that to use for play grading $1 thrift store Lps and sub $10 in value records of unknown quantity, maybe, (as there are better alternatives even for that purpose out there, readily, and for far less than $300 bucks)

That thing is just another jumping on the bandwagon by a chinese maker to try and capture some of the loose money floating around thanks to the new discovery of vinyl by folks who don't know any better yet, vinyl playback neophytes, that, or folks who just never knew the difference to begin with...................OR, the middle aged wanting to play those old records in the closet and DO want something that at least LOOKS better than a Crosley and who haven't had a table in years (note how the carefully crafted crap all mimics the basic appearance of the tables from the best era of Jap tables, about 1975 thru about 1982-'83 or so)

It is possible to build (and buy) a decent low voltage turnatable motor, but you can bet you last dollar the TEAC doesn't employ one of them. It is the cheapest thing that can be had. Even the REGAs now going that route suck (as if their 120V mains motors weren't already weak enough torque wise but at least they were built well and last(ed) for decades............then there's the hanky matter of getting the built in pre out of the way completely (the signal path) if you only want to use it as a true cart level to PHONO stage manual table.............I just don't see the merit in products like this and they actually do piss me off (especially when trying to talk to some of my "clients")

You'll be tossing that thing in the trash before 2 or 3 years are up

The "best value" in a turntable to be had for under $500 dollars would be any of the Made in Japan middle to top drawer decks from when vinyl was KING, ie: a nice vintage turntable made of excellent materials with some real engineering behind it, good materials and a decent arm (more importantly, decent arm bearings)

I try to convince people who ask me what to buy to buy something they can sell themselves if they decide that vinyl isn't something they want to stick with............in other words, I encourage them not to piss away their money

Just because something is new doesn't make it good; I buy sell and handle dozens of decks a year and that TEAC, again, "is what it is"; JUNK at any price (I know, I've had more than a few brought to me for "repairs") Not THAT model TEAC but the same junk made from the same template, different badges

I am happy that you're happy with yours

Thomas

[BMWCCA]

Listening to this on the TEAC right now as I read the above post:

http://cdn.discogs.com/bElFN0p208F6WeOcvKTSuohbph4=/fit-in/598x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(96)/discogs-images/R-4264445-1360250419-9203.jpeg.jpg

Sounds lovely.

[Ducatista47]

What a wonderful piece of music!

Phil, after enjoying these forums and this website all these years, I have finally put a member on my ignore list. Given the placement of that sentence, you might guess who. All the ranting all these years on these pages, and I was not tempted to take this action, until now. Actually last week, to be precise. What a relief, and the best part is, any of his ranting replies to anything I, or anyone else post, I will never see. He can type his vitriol until his fingers bleed and I don't see it. Highly recommended.

PS I notice it works on Private Messages too.


Listening to this on the TEAC right now as I read the above post:

http://cdn.discogs.com/bElFN0p208F6WeOcvKTSuohbph4=/fit-in/598x598/filters:strip_icc():format(jpeg):mode_rgb():qualit y(96)/discogs-images/R-4264445-1360250419-9203.jpeg.jpg

Sounds lovely.

[BMWCCA]

What a wonderful piece of music!

A good first-album to play on a new turntable. Fitting also in that her trumpet-player on that and other albums has a standing Thursday evening gig at a local restaurant more famous for being where Dave Matthews used to bar-tend prior to forming his band.

John D'earth tonight, and Robert Jospe (with Dane Alderson on bass) tomorrow evening. Turntables are fun but live music is something else. Support it whenever you can!

[Alobar]

What a wonderful piece of music!

Phil, after enjoying these forums and this website all these years, I have finally put a member on my ignore list. Given the placement of that sentence, you might guess who. All the ranting all these years on these pages, and I was not tempted to take this action, until now. Actually last week, to be precise. What a relief, and the best part is, any of his ranting replies to anything I, or anyone else post, I will never see. He can type his vitriol until his fingers bleed and I don't see it. Highly recommended.

PS I notice it works on Private Messages too.


Simply ignoring someone you don't agree with, or dislike, or whatever is much better than the constant bickering that goes on. I wish more people would try it. . I don't get the need for the ignore list feature but if there is some compulsion to read posts from someone with whom you know before hand is just going to upset you than the list is fine. What I don't like to see is lobbying to get someone banned over personality conflicts. It does take two to tango as they say.

I read, or at least skim through Wagner's posts because he does know quite a bit about audio,far more than I do and I seem to be capable of valuing his audio opinion without taking on the rest. If that weren't the case I would ignore him too. Life is way too short! :)









:(

[Wagner]

Simply ignoring someone you don't agree with, or dislike, or whatever is much better than the constant bickering that goes on. I wish more people would try it. . I don't get the need for the ignore list feature but if there is some compulsion to read posts from someone with whom you know before hand is just going to upset you than the list is fine. What I don't like to see is lobbying to get someone banned over personality conflicts. It does take two to tango as they say.

I read, or at least skim through Wagner's posts because he does know quite a bit about audio,far more than I do and I seem to be capable of valuing his audio opinion without taking on the rest. If that weren't the case I would ignore him too. Life is way too short! :)
:(
For the nice, intelligent post
Yes, more than a few drama queens here who think that every post made stating a view, or position different from their own is somehow directed at them personally

Self-important and seemingly very fragile drama queens I should say

Kind regards,
Thomas Wagner

[quindecima]

Does anybody have any input on the Sansui 636 turntable? :confused:

[Lee in Montreal]

Well, I am glad that the milk crates that were used to carry records are now recycled into turntables (according to our resident bickerer). This is almost like reincarnation. :D . I don't mind if it is not the best TT in the world. It probably makes for a good intro device for people who will later buy a "better" turntable. What more can be asked in this world of iPods and earbuds? I bought my first turntable in 1980 (Pioneer direct drive PL300 - which I still have - in a box), and even if it was not the best one (far from it), it allowed me to discover and enjoy music. Therefore, if that TEAC turntable is not the top of range TT, who cares? Their owners will buy boxes of used records and discover artists they otherwise wouldn't have known. Thanks TEAC.

PS Mr Bickerer is also on my ignore list (and he actually is the only one there). It makes the LH experience more enjoyable... :D

[Wagner]

Well, I am glad that the milk crates that were used to carry records are now recycled into turntables (according to our resident bickerer).

PS Mr Bickerer is also on my ignore list (and he actually is the only one there). It makes the LH experience more enjoyable... :D
Tee hee tee hee........................you're such a Silly Billy!

I don't know what I can say to thank you enough for the (alleged) honor of being the only resident on your "ignore list" yet you continue to (mis)quote and mischaracterize my comments..............makes me wonder and a bit confused, how is that so? Maybe I'm just too stoopid to understand fully how the feature works?

Regardless, it was milk JUGS, that's JUGS, not crates

Thomas

[Wagner]

Does anybody have any input on the Sansui 636 turntable? :confused:
Very nice table, BUT, do not buy one for personal use unless you are willing to go through it and replace all of the electrolytics

I prefer and seek out the (upper line tables regardless of maker) Direct Drive models with the minimal chip count whenever possible (the most simple speed control systems, like SONY's XTAL-Lock is a favorite of mine) as well as trying to avoid those with motorized arm cues and such......................this going on the assumption that you want to buy to own and enjoy and not flip

I would also suggest avoiding any and all of the servo controlled arm types as well (unless you find one for virtually peanuts at a yard sale or something) I am certain there are plenty of folks who would disagree, but then they've probably never had to source parts to repair any of them either

The "636" is an excellent deck, in good to fine operating condition you would be very happy I would venture

Thomas

[quindecima]

Thanks Thomas, I sourced a SL 1200MK2 and there were two available that I had a choice on so I picked the best one (based only on cosmetics and condition of the parts) and so far all I have done is change out the RCA hookup but while I was perusing thru his selection I was drawn to the Sansui because of its condition. Thru research I was able to determine that it is close to an 838 but I am not sure of the difference. I'd like to have a spare so I think I will look further into it.

[quindecima]

Thanks Thomas for all the info on turntables, cartridges and tuners. I know diddly about that stuff and your knowledge is appreciated.

[SEAWOLF97]

.
http://www.stereophile.com/content/sme-3009-tonearm

[quindecima]

O.K., so what is this link for? People who already have one or are some available somewhere?

[quindecima]

So today I decided to check out two of my turntables. The third is a BL-3 Technics best regulated to a back room. I have a SL1200MK2 and a Sansui 636 Both are very nice TT nowhere near some of the stuff you see on Audiogon but I'm in a WAY lower income bracket . The TT has a Stanton cart and the Sansui has an Audiotechnica and to tell the truth I'm going to have to sit down with some grape and run a bunch of vinyl thru these to tell any audio difference. The TT has a much better shutdown, when you press stop it only takes a few sec for it to stop the Sansui takes longer but as far as smooth goes they are about the same. I like the tone arm drop and lift on the Sansui better and the Sansui is heavier. Both tonearms seem to be about the same quality.

[Wagner]

Thanks Thomas for all the info on turntables, cartridges and tuners. I know diddly about that stuff and your knowledge is appreciated.
Thank you for saying such a nice thing
I am happy if anything that I said was of help to you
You are more than welcome
I would have responded to your gracious remark sooner but I was "banned" yet again for another week, this one just past, for what I do not know
"Angry and disruptive" according to the anonymous notice

Thomas

[SEAWOLF97]

I would have responded to your gracious remark sooner but I was "banned" yet again for another week, this one just past, for what I do not know
"Angry and disruptive" according to the anonymous notice

Thomas

Well, I enjoy it when you make positive contributions. You have a lot of knowledge to share.

I got banned for life by a mod who couldn't click straight.

[Wagner]

So today I decided to check out two of my turntables. The third is a BL-3 Technics best regulated to a back room. I have a SL1200MK2 and a Sansui 636 Both are very nice TT nowhere near some of the stuff you see on Audiogon but I'm in a WAY lower income bracket . The TT has a Stanton cart and the Sansui has an Audiotechnica and to tell the truth I'm going to have to sit down with some grape and run a bunch of vinyl thru these to tell any audio difference. The TT has a much better shutdown, when you press stop it only takes a few sec for it to stop the Sansui takes longer but as far as smooth goes they are about the same. I like the tone arm drop and lift on the Sansui better and the Sansui is heavier. Both tonearms seem to be about the same quality.
Please do not apologize, you have two VERY nice tables and as for the Stanton? What model? With the right tip a good Stanton can be sublime, some of the best all around cartridges ever made.
Very euphonic and musical cartridges and still a lot of good stylus cuts to choose from today.
Unfortunately, their very best, the "Stereohedron" "EEE" as they called it was discontinued back in the '90s but JICO offers an alternative today that comes pretty close (but it is expensive)

But fret not, a Stanton will sound wonderful with a well made conical or just about any cut you choose if it's of any quality

Problem with them for many is that they didn't/don't cost enough to be as good as they are
They don't know what they're missing

The older the model the better (which factory)
Even the ubiquitous "DJ" models still available today can be elevated to better than average performance with the right stylus, but the older "reference" broadcast models are the most desirable (and best sounding)-truly "high performance, high fidelity" as well as being excellent trackers and easy on the grooves
Well worth the investment for a good tip
Take care with a good set-up and you will be rewarded

Thomas

[quindecima]

I don't know which Stanton it is because the numbers or name is hidden under the headshell. I an using the Sansui right now. I need another nice table to set the MK2 on so I can hook them both up.


Darn, I just looked at my preamp manual and there is only one Phono connection, bummer

[Wagner]

I don't know which Stanton it is because the numbers or name is hidden under the headshell. I an using the Sansui right now. I need another nice table to set the MK2 on so I can hook them both up.


Darn, I just looked at my preamp manual and there is only one Phono connection, bummer
What are you using for a PHONO stage?

[quindecima]

My phono stage is my Adcom preamp 565

[Wagner]

My phono stage is my Adcom preamp 565
Capable of handling a moving magnet and a moving coil? Or just moving magnet (or iron)?
You could buy, or better yet, build, a nice little switch box as one possible solution for "A-Bing"
Or pick up a cheapie just to get by for now so you can do your comparisons; I see them all the time at thrift stores from back in the VCR days (often the old ones intended for video use being well built compared to the plastic junk readily available today at typical retail outlets) heavy metal construction and good quality jacks and switches, minimal if any insertion loss
Some of them are actually quite decent and certainly good enough to give you an idea if you wanted to take it to a higher quality level
Common solution for those of us who run many of the old Fishers with only one straight "line in" if you don't want to fool with switching cables with every component input change, that, or don't want to use Fisher's MM PHONO section

It would (ideally) need to be a fairly decent one due to the extremely low signal level

If you decide you did want to be able keep/run either table at will, I would recommend building one yourself with the best quality parts you can practically source. It won't take much parts wise: a high quality switch, some good female RCAs and a very small length of good quality shielded cable to tie it all together.

[Wagner]

OR, to run 2 phonos on that preamp, you could:

get an external phono stage and run it on the AUX input and the 2nd TT on the standard PHONO input. That could allow the use of a MC cart too, since many of them are switchable.

I've noticed some reasonably priced ones on Audio Advisor.

OR just pick the best of the 2 TT's for that system and use 2nd TT for a second system.

Many just use 1 TT and switch out loaded headshells (if they are standard CD4's)

lots of options.
True, but I think the objective for now was comparison
As for "big bang for the buck PHONO stages, the old Rotel RQ-970BX is still a hard one to beat, accepts MM and MCs AND lends itself easily to tweaking if that's your thing, like going bat shit crazy with Burson type discrete op amps versus ICs......................and the best part? You can find an old 970 for easily under a $100 bucks.

Definitely not the final word in PHONO stages but a damn good performer: hard to beat

I gave one to my Son for his 16th birthday, he's almost 27 now and still uses, and loves it. Parts quality is over the top for mass produced equipment

[quindecima]

The pre is both MM and MC. I didn't think about a switch box that that is a good idea. I don't want to use the aux input because that bypasses the phono stage and the phono stage is the main reason I got this preamp.

[Wagner]

The pre is both MM and MC. I didn't think about a switch box that that is a good idea. I don't want to use the aux input because that bypasses the phono stage and the phono stage is the main reason I got this preamp.
Understood, that is what I thought

You can fabricate a VERY nice switch box for $25 bucks or less, something with very good positive sealed switch contacts like with a DIP or Mil-spec type (check what Bourns has to offer at Mouser)

Redco Audio also has an excellent assortment of high quality jacks, cable etc, charge ACTUAL shipping, no minimum order and their prices are the best that I have found:
http://www.redco.com/

[quindecima]

Horse poo poo Thomas, I have 50 bucks into this switch box using numero uno parts. A little too small on the box but it will work. Just now getting started on it.

[quindecima]

O.K., I'm done with it. Used mil spec flexible shielded cable and gold plated RCA plugs. and a high end DPDT on-on switch Now I'll get a Mogami turntable cable and I will be able to use two turntables without plugging and unplugging. I don't have much room for it but I plan on setting it on top of one of my 4345's. I'll put a black poster board down and a 3/8 in. semi hard rubber pad with a 1/4 smoked glass top on that then the turntable, that should damp any vibes, (I Hope)

[SEAWOLF97]

.
How to Get Started With Vinyl Records

http://gizmodo.com/how-to-get-started-with-vinyl-records-1708515307?google_editors_picks=true


dippy hipster=dipster ?

also interesting:

http://gizmodo.com/the-countrys-few-remaining-vinyl-record-factories-are-c-1670266936

http://gizmodo.com/amazon-sells-the-most-vinyl-records-not-urban-outfitte-1640859125

http://gizmodo.com/why-vinyl-is-the-only-worthwhile-way-to-own-music-1527750499

[Wagner]

.
How to Get Started With Vinyl Records

http://gizmodo.com/how-to-get-started-with-vinyl-records-1708515307?google_editors_picks=true


dippy hipster=dipster ?
I've skimmed it so far.............probably good he didn't post it here first for a trial run, and for me to take a shot at it! :p

Pretty good grasp of the situation though despite his cockiness (and ginormous pot holes of ignorance, (aka: youth/inexperience); at least he acknowledges (seems to know) the differences in table (a LOT of them don't)

I like what certainly appears to be the SL-1300 (original servo vesion) in the glamour shot, same table I just re-capped and tweaked for my Son, good table, with the M97xE as well

[Wagner]

O.K., I'm done with it. Used mil spec flexible shielded cable and gold plated RCA plugs. and a high end DPDT on-on switch Now I'll get a Mogami turntable cable and I will be able to use two turntables without plugging and unplugging. I don't have much room for it but I plan on setting it on top of one of my 4345's. I'll put a black poster board down and a 3/8 in. semi hard rubber pad with a 1/4 smoked glass top on that then the turntable, that should damp any vibes, (I Hope)
I just saw this, BEAUTIFUL!
Where'd you buy all your parts?
Regardless, that's $50 bucks well spent and you know what you have
Nice

Thomas

[Audiobeer]

[QUOTE=Mr. Widget;363263]My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300. It has the best suspension of any table I've ever owned. You can tap violently on the plinth and virtually no sound comes through the system. I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.


Widget[/QUOTE

thats one beautiful table......you need to ship it east!

[Wagner]

[QUOTE=Mr. Widget;363263]My current turntable is a Micro Seiki built Luxman PD-300. It has the best suspension of any table I've ever owned. You can tap violently on the plinth and virtually no sound comes through the system. I haven't cranked the DD66000s to crazy levels, but I have never heard any type of feedback even at pretty high SPLs... from my experience suspensions matter, even if only playing at moderate levels.


Widget[/QUOTE

thats one beautiful table......you need to ship it east!
Where (which) post is this?
Advanced search with user specified = no match?

[Mr. Widget]

.

[Wagner]

.
Didn't notice that the icon transferred with my re-post; wasn't in "Audiobeer"'s quote.......................regardless, I also see the same photo, elsewhere, in a bunch resulting from an image search.

Third row down, fourth image in from left if this doesn't take you straight to it:
https://www.google.com/search?q=Luxman+PD-300&biw=1680&bih=925&tbm=isch&imgil=kqRT-WxBRsDq3M%253A%253BKuLqYWDEc5DS1M%253Bhttp%25253A% 25252F%25252Fwww.vinylengine.com%25252Flibrary%252 52Fluxman%25252Fpd-300.shtml&source=iu&pf=m&fir=kqRT-WxBRsDq3M%253A%252CKuLqYWDEc5DS1M%252C_&usg=__QjCGym_fjhm7_wgP1nn6fDP3_Cg%3D&ved=0ahUKEwis0vXlsYjMAhUS5WMKHajmDYsQyjcIMA&ei=hooMV6z3KJLKjwOozbfYCA#imgrc=PYy-lcHUYD4j8M%3A

Wanted to know what arm that is, a Jelco? And are you Moonlighting as "futo"?