Seeking Comments from folks using Crown K1 or K2 on Home audio systems

[hjames]

I'm looking for an amp with a bit more power than the usual 150-200w/ch gear I've had laying around,
and when I asked Phil about Crown amps, he suggested I might consider the K series Crown Amps.
He said had no personal experience with those models, but I know some of you have and I thought I'd ask for specifics.

I used the JBL/UREI amps (6230 and 6260), and later paired Adcom GFA-555s when I was biamping those JBL 4341 monitors,
but more recently I've been using the B&K amps (ST202+) and am pleased with their sound (and price) ...

I just got a pair of Vandersteen 3As and they seem a bit more power hungry than speakers I've had before -
I believe they are best with high-current type amps, so I thought I'd ask you folks about the Crown K series ...

Thanks in advance for your feedback!

[svollmer]

I've mostly heard of people using them for subwoofer amps in home applications; not for mains. But, they may be fine. :dont-know:

If you get one, let us know how you like it. One more option may be a Bryston. I've heard they are high current and sound pretty darn good.

[hjames]

I've mostly heard of people using them for subwoofer amps in home applications; not for mains. But, they may be fine. :dont-know:

If you get one, let us know how you like it. One more option may be a Bryston. I've heard they are high current and sound pretty darn good.
Its a possibility, but I'm hoping to get into this under a grand - (there is always that budget thing ...)
I suspect the Bryston and Perreaux stuff (and Mark Levinworth, etc) will quickly exceed that threshold ...

[JuniorJBL]

Hi Heather

I have used the K2's on my 250's but the sound quality was not as good as my other amps. Unfortunately they were the other amps you stated as breaking the budget. I still think the adcom will sound a bit better than the Crown.

My friend used 2 555’s and only ran one channel each (not bridged) because of power supply size and they worked really well.

The K2’s will do great things on the sub though!

Hope this helps.

:)

[grumpy]

80's vintage 300w/ch (measured) Perreaux isn't necessarily out of your budget.
Shipping could be a stinker.

Watch out for the power switch (esp older units like 2150B ... they -will- fail) and
understand that the original lateral Hitachi mosfets are no longer made.

Pro versions are often less, but the usual caveats re pro gear (often take a beating) apply.

This doesn't look like too bad a deal (no connection to seller, under $500 when I looked):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perreaux-PMF1850-180-Watt-X-2-Dual-Channel-Power-Amplifier/321412466624

[BMWCCA]

This doesn't look like too bad a deal (no connection to seller, under $500 when I looked):

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perreaux-PMF1850-180-Watt-X-2-Dual-Channel-Power-Amplifier/321412466624

Just looking at the specs, they don't appear to be that powerful for what Heather's looking for. :dont-know:

The Crown PS400 specs out stronger, and that's what I use with my 4345s.

[hjames]

Just looking at the specs, they don't appear to be that powerful for what Heather's looking for. :dont-know:

The Crown PS400 specs out stronger, and that's what I use with my 4345s.

Thanks - you are correct.
I've already got the B&K ST202+ - specs out at 200w/ch into 8 ohms (and the vandy 3A is typically 6 ohm load)
it's a much warmer amp than the Adcom GFA-555s or the 6260 JBL/UREI amps I had before.
I was thinking stepping from 200w/ch to something like 300+ w/ch - not that I need to crank it stupid loud (I don't)
but just to have power in reserve from drum transients and such ...

But thanks to everyone who has offered suggestions -
no slights are meant to anyone - all suggestions are heard!

[grumpy]

I think that one specs at 180/ch, but nearly doubles
that into 4ohms and has 2dB of dynamic headroom
(higher than needed supply rails, but not regulated).
So ~285w/ch on peaks into 8ohms...

Not a full-time sub amp though.

But I doubt the issue is watts, and more likely a
low impedance high phase angle load (usually
what "difficult to drive" means).

I'd probably wait for a bigger brother version,
but at $500, this looked interesting.

I only have experience with three of the perreaux
units over the last 20+ years, and no crown amps
for critical listening, so while I certainly honor your
experience(s), I can offer no subjective listening
comparison.

I would hope that me pointing to an eBay link
would be interpreted as a point of interest, not
an endorsement or admonishment to buy.

I'm just some dude on the Internet :)

[JeffW]

I'm just some dude on the Internet :)

Uhh...

THE Dude. Or his Dudeness, Duder, or Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.

[grumpy]

Is this where I refer to you as Donny? ;)

Seriously, there's lots of good hardware out
there. Looks like those steens need an amp
with huevos in the bass dept as well as a nice
top end.

[JeffW]

Is this where I refer to you as Donny? ;)

.

Or you could just come right out and tell me to shut the fuck up.

You guys carry on.

[grumpy]

Lol. Not needed, but the setup was irresistible. :)

looks like stereophile was happy driving
model 3's with a 100w McCormack amp
or a 300w Krell... It will be interesting to
hear how this tale proceeds (so I'll STFU now)

[BMWCCA]

Might be time for a Mid-Atlantic Amp Shoot-out at Heather's soon! :hurray: :banana: :duel:

I'm in for at least one Crown PS400 (we can bridge 'em for fun) and one Studio Reference-II. Might call for new shocks in the old car though.

Are you bi-amping the Vandies?

[1audiohack]

Might be time for a Mid-Atlantic Amp Shoot-out at Heather's soon! :hurray: :banana:

Do it!

Hi Heather;

I use them. I have the 4430's in the shop and the 4435's in the office on K2's. The 4350's are quad amped with three K2's and a K1 with a D45 on the rings. The power density for a convection cooled amp is one of the main reasons I like them but they do need some air movement, just a little. When they are in still air they get hot, like can't hold your hand on them hot. Having no cooling fins and little surface area they don't radiate much heat into the room however. They are pretty gutsy and the sound is agreeable to me but I have better amps on he Arrays in the main home system.

For what you can buy them for currently is probably just as easy to buy and try.

All the best, Barry.

[martin2395]

I had two 6260's and liked them a lot except that the transformers were always running at near meltdown temperature while the heatsinks were barely warm.
It had something to do with 220-230V differences and very narrow tolerance of the transformer in the amp.

I also have a K2 and tried it full range on a pair L100S Titaniums. Very powerful sound but too synthetic and aggresive highs. Personally, I wouldn't use it above 500Hz.
Yes, the K2 run hot even while idling but that's the price for having a convection cooled 500W at 8 Ohms ;)

No personal experience with Perraux gear but I heard mixed things about their reliability and unobtainium parts.

[Baron030]

Hi
Over the years, I have owned several crown amps. The first being a Power-Tech 1, my impression of the Power-Tech 1 was that it was designed for DJ systems and while it had a very clean sound. The dynamics were not at all linear. It tended to exaggerate the dynamic range, almost like it had an expander circuit built into it. DJs must like it because it makes everything sound real loud. But, it’s not a “HIFI” kind of sound.

In upgrading to a K1 and I found that the sound to be much more natural, with a much more linear dynamics. At the time, it was driving my old 030 system and surprisingly the K1 had a much wider frequency response the Power-Tech 1 amp. More bass and more high end as well. The very high damping factor of the K series provides for a very tight and punchy bass sound, with excellent control over the drivers. And a K2’s higher voltage drive and power handling tends to tighten things up a little further.

I have since upgraded to a much larger quad amplified speaker system. And I am currently using a K2 to drive 15” woofers, a K1 to drive 10” mid-bass drivers and an array of 3 crown D-75A amps the for HF and UHF drivers.
I can recommend the K series amplifiers for driving sub-woofers, woofers and mid-bass drivers. But, I really can not recommend them for HF and UHF drivers.

For a very brief period, I did try to use a K1 to power JBL 2446H drivers. And surprisingly the K1 had grainy, almost metallic like sound. It was almost as if I could hear the switching of the transistors, it had an odd pixelated kind of sound. And the other problem that I encountered is that the amplifier wanted to go into sleep mode. The sleep mode issue is never a problem with lower efficiency drivers like woofers. But, with the 2446H’s 113db per watt efficiency, they just did not use enough power to keep the amp awake. So, the HF horns would not cut in for the first few seconds of a song.

For the HF and UHF drivers, I have found that the Crown D series amps have a much smoother and cleaner sound than the K series. And considering how rarely the green “signal present” light turn on in the D-75A amps, I suspect that the D-75As are actually running in a pure “Class A” mode and they are only switching over to their “Class AB” amp mode during the loud passages, which might be another reason why the Crown D-75A amps sound so much better than the K series.

So, I don't think switching amps and HF and UHF drivers are a good mix.

Baron030:)

[martin2395]

Baron030, I fully agree!
The K are simply subwoofer powerhorses with no finesse at all...

I'm now seriously considering the biggest Macro-Tech 5000VZ or 5002VZ...why the biggest ones you might ask?
Simple, they are the only Macro's I know with normal fans and they are temperature controlled.
(The older Macro-Techs have moto-fan that also produced low voltage for some sections of the amp, without the fan they wouldn't even power up)

Finally, yes the Vandersteens will soak up power like a sponge with their 87dB effiicency and 4 ohm minimum impedance but me thinks that 250W @ 4 Ohms would be plenty ;)

[gferrell]

Heather,
I have been buying older Ashly amps. When I first heard one hooked up to my XPL 200' s I decided I would stick with these forever. Plus you can pick them up for $100 or so. Or you can find them being sold out of theaters or churches. I have had many amps but these are the best mosfets I have heard. FET-or FTX models if you can find one. The fans are fairly quiet or you can modify the amp or just take the lid off. I put thermal switches on mine that cycle the fan on and off so they don't run at start up and when the music is playing I cant hear it. The specs. are very impressive and they still support these at the factory and they even kept enough Hitachi Lateral Mosfets to service these amps for a while longer.

[hjames]

Interesting - thanks.

At the moment I am not biamping them. I have them connected to a B&K ST202plus (200w/ch) using the MIT Terminator 2 Biwires I got last year off CL.
Richard Vandersteen recommends biwiring over biamping - and since I got those fancy cables cheap, seems to work fine.

But if I got a second B&K St202plus, I might try vertical biamping ... (I don't think you can bridge those amps)

I haven't pulled the HK Citation off its bridged subwoof duties, but I probably will at some point ... just to see how that works ...

I'll more likely get another B&K than I am to find an affordable Krell or some such ...

But I'll keep an eye out for a PS400 or 2 ...





Might be time for a Mid-Atlantic Amp Shoot-out at Heather's soon! :hurray: :banana: :duel:

I'm in for at least one Crown PS400 (we can bridge 'em for fun) and one Studio Reference-II. Might call for new shocks in the old car though.

Are you bi-amping the Vandies?

[JayH]

What is the old adage, double the power, gain 3 db. Maybe you should think about at least 400 watts per channel, and it that doesn't work then think about a good active crossover to bi-amp with. Yes, MR. Vandersteen wouldn't recommend it but that's because it can be done wrong, and you would be placing his hard work to build that crossover into the dumpster! (yes the rest of the crossover will still be used) To do it right you will need to use his crossover points for starters, but remember his is a passive and reacts with the drivers differently even with the same slope and crossover points. The woofer will love you for going active as it will see the amp directly instead of having miles of wire in front of it, you will find much more control over the cone. I won't go into all the advantages and disadvantages here and it will provoke a fight if I did as there are two camps to that idea. Have fun, all you can do is learn from it all.

[hjames]

For the newcomers - I ran a fairly extensive biamp system when I had a pair of JBL 4341 4 way monitors, first with JBL/UREI pro amps,
and later with a pair of 1st gen Adcom GFA-555. Since then I have uncomplicated the system greatly, and while I still have an Ashly active crossover
on hand and could set it up easily enough, I am trying for another approach here.

The system as is has been fine for watching movies and other multimedia fare, but when I play 2 channel music - it seemed a bit lacking.

Interestingly enough, I just added an Emotiva XDA-2 DAC to the system today, connected to the Airport Express I use for lossless file streaming through the house.
It has really done something impressive to the music - and even if its just added a couple db to the level, it seems enough to have woken up the system.

I ran out of time for further demoing today, but perhaps I can do more testing tomorrow, and see how much is improved.

62487

[BMWCCA]

I won't go into all the advantages and disadvantages here and it will provoke a fight if I did as there are two camps to that idea.

I realize this is your first post here but we don't fight . . . and many of us bi-amp already. :thmbsup:

Welcome.

[BMWCCA]

Interestingly enough, I just added an Emotiva XDA-2 DAC to the system today, connected to the Airport Express I use for lossless file streaming through the house.
It has really done something impressive to the music - and even if its just added a couple db to the level, it seems enough to have woken up the system.

You know I value your opinion—especially when it agrees with mine!

I'm very happy with my Emotiva XDA-2.

Now maybe you could try some JBLs in that system! ;) :rotfl:

[hjames]

You know I value your opinion—especially when it agrees with mine!

I'm very happy with my Emotiva XDA-2.

Now maybe you could try some JBLs in that system! ;) :rotfl:
I was debating on some museum fresh 250tis that popped up on my local CL,
but some out-of-towner rode in and took them away ... :D

I know, cash talks ...

[Robh3606]

Hello Baron, Heather

I have been using the PS series in my "big system" for years. I have PS-200's on the E-145's 2123's and 435Be's. I use a PS-400 on my pair of B380 clones. They sound better to me than the D series and are also old school power amps with no fans. I have never ever had the overload/clipping lights come on with music. Even at stupid loud levels where I could easily hurt myself. I have never used the mega watt crowns as I don't see the need for them in my set-up. I have an XTI 2002 for my HT subwoofers that's the most powerful Crown I own.

I agree about them staying in class A. With the sensitivity based on my E-145's I am looking at about 111 db from the pair with only 10 watts. Given that they are running at low power even at quite loud levels you don't have any issues with power compression from the speaker drivers as well. A win win combination.

I really like the XTI 2002 for HT subs. Nice DSP capability built in and really impressive control of the 2266 woofers. Same basic alignment as the B 380's without the BX-63. You can use the DSP to replace the Q2 26hz bump and roll off in the box.

Rob:)

[hjames]

Been looking around for PS400s - keeping an eye open but haven't seen any of them lately.
Lots of K2s and similar tho .. think I'll pass on that model - I already have the Citation 22 for the JBL sub.
So over the weekend a friend recommended the Crown PSA-2 amp -
tweaked up like the ShowCo amps of yore ... I don't have any first hand experience with larger Crown amps -
I did have a D75 way way back before I got the 4341s, but back then, it didn't have enough beans for any of the projects
I had going so I sold it off after a few months ...

Sounds intriguing, none-the-less ...

[BMWCCA]

Been looking around for PS400s - keeping an eye open but haven't seen any of them lately.
Reading between the lines on a pair of them on from the same seller on Ebay, looks like the ask was $365 plus shipping and one went for that and the other for a "best offer" (higher than mine!). Later versions. Looked nice.

Remember I'm a bottom-feeder (that was my "rank" here for quite some time, self-proclaimed). I like them for around $200. My nicest I bought for $100 off DC Craig's List a while back. I'll buy 'em all day long for that. Then I like them so much, I keep them all! Can't have too many spares. Makes it easier to loan them to Heather to try out, too! I can't even count all the PS200s I have. One fine amp.

A PS400 and a pair of L7s make a very nice $400 basis for a system. :bouncy:

[grumpy]

So over the weekend a friend recommended the Crown PSA-2 amp -
tweaked up like the ShowCo amps of yore ... I don't have any first hand experience with larger Crown amps -

iirc, Toddalin had at least one of those he was happy with.
hard to know how hard they've been ridden.