2241 for HIFI use?!

[Kalle]

I have 2 clones of JBL SR 4719x. Is it possible to build som smaller well sounding of the 2241 18" or is it better to sell them and search for mor suitable speakers? One problem is that the 4719 cabinetts are huge. Is it possible to build smaller boxes for them? Even thou I only have one of the boxes in my cellar my GF don`t approve:DRegardsKarl

[JUNGLECATGEORGE]

my wife figures my hartsfields are too big...tough darts!

[Lee in Montreal]

JBL 2441 are defintely great comp drivers suitable for hifi. They can be used with a very large selection of horns, depending on your project. I had them on some 2397, 2350, 2360, 2395. You can fit stock JBL diaphragms, or aftermarket Radian or Truextend.

It is the 2241 woofers in your cabinets that are not really hifi as they will lack the last bottom octave. To reduce the cabinets' volume by half, you could use them in isobaric configuration. Two motors for the volume of one drivers. That would be like using one driver with twice the volume.

http://www.eng.hifi.pl/1gfx/dict/isobaric.gif

[Mr. Widget]

JBL 2441 are...I was going to post virtually the same thing. Not sure about Isobarics with those beasts though.

I'd sell 'em and start over.


Widget

[Lee in Montreal]

And yes, sell those boomy 2241. Definitely not hifi.

One interesting project that would be hifi, and would be big not THAT big, and would sound impressive, would be an 18" 2245 woofer in 10-12cft enclosure (2ft x 2ft x 3ft wide) for the 20Hz-350Hz region, and a 2241 comp driver on a 2360 horn, with CD correction. You'd get a "compact" two-way system that would sound great. You'd need one amp for the bass and another for the midrange/highs, as well as a digital crossover. To please your wife, you could make that cabinet with a curved back section so that it looks nice, and cut on static waves.

If I could find another 2245, that's what I would do. ;-)

59876

[Kalle]

Ok. I think they are quite easy to sell to the PA-people. They do play loud:D Then I try to sell them and look for better options.
The 2245 18" is quite hard to find i`we notised. I have looked att the 2360 but i think they are to big. Mabye I should think of them again. I now have 2447 and 2381 but I think they sound hard and a little harsh. (I shall try with more settings and messurements)
In Sweden it is hard to find god horns. I`we searched för the 235x for a while... Any suggestions on where to look? I have 2447 drivers.

My speaker setting now is per speaker:
1x2205
1x2447
1x2381
2x2206
In sealed boxes

One sr 4729x as sub.

I`we read about people using the car woofer JBL 1514 GTO as subwoofer with success. http://www.jbl.com/resources/brands/jbl/products/productrelateddocuments/en-us/boxesandparameters/gto1514td.pdf
Can that be an option for sub use or is it better to try for a easier setup as a 2-way as you suggest? Honestly I have some problems configure the system and a 2-way should be more easy than a 4-way I quess.

/Karl

[ivica]

I have 2 clones of JBL SR 4719x. Is it possible to build som smaller well sounding of the 2441`s or is it better to sell them and search for mor suitable speakers? One problem is that the 4719 cabinetts are huge. Is it possible to build smaller boxes for them? Even thou I only have one of the boxes in my cellar my GF don`t approve:D

Regards
Karl

Hi Kalle,

may be I do not understand your hesitation: do you think about 2241H, bass driver, or about 2441 compression driver.
In the mentioned SR4719x, there is a pair of 2241 bass drivers.
I think that such 2241 can be used in the 250Lit box, tuned about 40Hz, and I would expect almost the same response as 2245 mounted in the same size box tuned at about 28Hz. Yes, 2245 would "go" lower several Hz.....
For either of the mentioned bass driver it would be important to use separate amplifier (to drive the 2241) with appropriated network 'in-front' of the amplifier in order to reduce negative influences of the passive networks elements to the bass driver operation.....

regards
ivica


regards
Ivica

[Kalle]

Hello!

Yes it is the 2241 18". Now I see that I have wrote 2441. But you think it is ok for HIFI? I have separate amps and digital crossing for all speakers.

/Karl



Hi Kalle,

may be I do not understand your hesitation: do you think about 2241H, bass driver, or about 2441 compression driver.
In the mentioned SR4719x, there is a pair of 2241 bass drivers.
I think that such 2241 can be used in the 250Lit box, tuned about 40Hz, and I would expect almost the same response as 2245 mounted in the same size box tuned at about 28Hz. Yes, 2245 would "go" lower several Hz.....
For either of the mentioned bass driver it would be important to use separate amplifier (to drive the 2241) with appropriated network 'in-front' of the amplifier in order to reduce negative influences of the passive networks elements to the bass driver operation.....

regards
ivica


regards
Ivica

[Maxwelhse]

Hi Kalle, may be I do not understand your hesitation: do you think about 2241H, bass driver, or about 2441 compression driver. In the mentioned SR4719x, there is a pair of 2241 bass drivers.

Oh thank God... As the owner of an SR4719A box housing to 2241Hs, I thought I was going insane reading this thread! :)

-----

I have no clue about how the drivers will react to different volumes or cabinet designs. However, mine are quite musical at "insane" volumes and I'm completely impressed at how well they play for such large drivers.

For home theater, combined with a suitable poweramp, I would describe it as "effortless" in its sound and function. It's also an amazing system if you straight up want to romp on something.

I have two recommendations, assuming that the above quotation is true:

1. Sell me the SR4719 and I will cry about how awesome it is, and how someone gave it up, until time stops, You can replace it with a system that occupies 1/10th it's size and produces 1/20th its output (and it DOES output... At great length).

2. Do what I did.. Buy new furniture (optional... in a way) and order enough extra material, that matches said new furniture, to have a slip cover made so it doesn't look so much like a chest freezer sitting behind your couch...

I vote for option 1 as I'm sure Lay-Z-Boy will sell me more fabric... How much cash do you need out of it? I LOVE mine and would like to have another!!!!

-------------

My entirely sarcastic tone above is meant to bring you to the realization that you've accidentally hit the jackpot. Maybe not everyone appreciates what the 4719 does, or the massive amount of space that it requires (perfection requires sacrifice), but I certainly do. I would sell every speaker I own before parting with mine. Even one of my single sets of measly Control-1s sound amazing (Really... Sitting on top of my disconnected L100Ts and 240Tis, those little Control-1 speakers blew my mind) with the SR4719 behind them. Playing the Control-1s, with an SB-2, AND the 4719A, I felt like a total fool for spending $3k on the L100Ts and 240tis (restored prices). So... There's a double endorsement for the Control-1 and SR4719X.. ;)

[more10]

Hi Kalle

The JBL SR 4719x is a double 18" cabinet. I believe a single 18" per side is quite enough. The new boxes will be smaller.

Mårten

[badman]

59894

I don't get why there's the coupling volume in the "A" diagram- space between drivers should be minimized to maximize the distortion cancellation of this arrangement. When properly clamshelled, this is the best arrangement for subs, the others have too much air between to couple properly. The downside is the ugly magnet side facing the room, and the low-pass characteristics of using the frame side (if you need HF from an isobaric pair... you're doing it wrong).

[Kalle]

Is the JBL 2242 a better driver than the 2241 for HIFI or is it just a better PAdriver than the 2241? In Sweden it is wery hard to get the 2245 that would be the best. I have a offer to buy 2242 for reasonable money. (mabye I also can get 2243) Is it possible or a good ide to add some eq on the bottom for the deepest frequencies?

Any alternatives that is not JBL? It would be great if they is available at http://www.thomann.de/gb/index.html

Regards Karl

[Maxwelhse]

Is the JBL 2242 a better driver than the 2241 for HIFI or is it just a better PAdriver than the 2241?

You are correct.. The 2242 is a superior driver to the 2241. In my case, it was a budget and authenticity concern to have 2241s playing...

That said, earlier this evening I watched the movie "Oblivion" on my H/T (SR4719A cab w/ 2 2241s playing + Crown XLS-2500) and it was mind numbing (not an exaggeration... It literally is an insane amount of subwoofer for that application). In the typical 0.1 role, they play a pretty much "1-tone" sub role... LOTS of rumble, very little nuance...

Fast forward 1hr 45minutes, I decided to fire up some VidZone on the PlayStation 3 and check out some music videos (VidZone is LOTS of fun, but the sound quality is terrible, in general). The SR4719A rocked the socks off of whatever it had to offer and was quite musical! No more single tone bass with actual music, despite the terrible source medium (VidZone does sound like crap, but it's still a boatload of fun! Check it out if you have a PS3).

Notable mention, for VidZone's crappy audio quality:

David Guetta (ft. KiD CuDi_ - Memories (Pounds like crazy... Blew out my 15A 110V breaker, AGAIN!!! That 15A 110V is only on my Sherbourn 5-200, NOT my XLS-2500 running the 18s)
Adele - Rolling in The Deep (My lowly 2241s can just barely recreate the "water rumbling in glasses" scene at about 1 meter from the cab... But it feels WAY cool trying to make it happen. One of my new life goals is accurate recreation of that video!)

Punchline?: 2241s are not to be trifled with and are are not, in any way, pansy speakers... Mine play HARD and would be considered "insane" by "most" home theater enthusiasts. If you play them "nice" (under 500w/RMS EACH), they are shockingly detailed and refined (even in my absolutely huge, ported, enclosure).... Playing them "nice" is a rarity for me though (outside of casual TV watching and gaming)... I paid the money, though a discount to the 2242. because I wanted a "monster in the closet"...

I got it...

I just wish I had another 2 or 4 to make my H/T beyond all reason... I will in time...

Consider your location, this is a long shot, but you're welcome to audition my setup at any time and I would be happy to do so... Moving past VidZone and movies, they're dead insane (will literally take your breath away without being overbearing) with Daft Punk, Genesis, Rage Against The Machine, TOOL, Everything But The Girl, and $100US bet against anything else you'd like to play.. 2241 = WIN! 2242? Probably even better?