fuzzy FM

[Fort Knox]

During daytime I get fair FM signal...
At night it's ...like ..outstanding by comparion
Is there some FIX I can do??:crying:

[hjames]

During daytime I get fair FM signal...
At night it's ...like ..outstanding by comparion
Is there some FIX I can do??:crying:

Need more melody - tell us more.

Location in Maryland?
Location in building?
Equipment in use?
Station desired?

I grew up in Burtonsville, halfway between the DC and Baltimore market and got LOTS of FM radio stations from a simple T wire antenna that came with my yamaha CR400 receiver - tho I did notice an improvement with a movable pair of bunny ears. Later on a rooftop antenna and rotor brought an even larger & amazing improvement!

I'm down in Fairfax, VA these days - but pretty much still in the same market.

[Fort Knox]

I got roof antenna (old TV )
Coax cable w/converter at either end
It's pointed at Wisconsin ave area
ant. mast..mtd on an old vent stack w/coat hanger wire.
I cleaned all the connections..and it helped some
but ...

[Hoerninger]

It is a question of distance, height and antennas directivity.
But first of all it should be an antenna for the FM radio band (87,5 - 108 MHz?).
____________
Peter

[hjames]

Is this an old existing antenna that has been up there and you cleaned it up, or something you installed yourself?

Peter is right tho - you are better off with a FM-specific antenna from radioshack than some do all TV antenna

The FM band is between Low VHF chan 6 and high VHF chan 7 - not the HD channels (most of which are in the UHF band!)

I don't know how much you want to spend on an antenna, but something like this Radio Shack
VHF and FM antenna is probably a good start and pretty cheap at $30

https://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=11113386

They don't actually list gain or show polar plots for its reception,
but if you point the short end towards NW DC its a start.

One issue is, if I recall, Camp Washington is rather low, if I recall, with a lot of woods in the way,
and you are looking quite a ways across town.

Which stations are you trying to get?




I got roof antenna (old TV )
Coax cable w/converter at either end
It's pointed at Wisconsin ave area
ant. mast..mtd on an old vent stack w/coat hanger wire.
I cleaned all the connections..and it helped some
but ...

[Baron030]

If you thinking of upgrading your FM antenna than here is a link to one of the better ones.

http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD6055P.pdf
(http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD6055P.pdf)
Baron030:)

[Fort Knox]

I listen to Rock, Hip hop, country and blues
I receive alot of FM, but the big stations seem overmodulated
don't they turn it down at night...maybe
I read somewhere that ones hearing changes during the day..
but ...my FM tuner seems to distort .in any case .during some weather
A good FM Ant.. would certainly help..

[hjames]

I don't know, but a lot of the stations these days use (syndicated) satellite feeds with corporate playlists and hire local announcers to give a local feel. look up Clear Channel FM and that sort of thing.
Lots of stages of compression to get maximum punch on commercials and music and it can be overmodulated.

Not sure a better antenna will get improvements with that.
Usually FM sound is pretty consistent once your receiver gets a signal above threshold and locks into FM stereo mode. You may have great signal strength on a lousy sounding audio feed.

I listened to a lot of stations when I lived near Laurel in the 70s and 80s ...
Morgan State, Howard U, WGTB, WHFS, WPFW, and low power stations like WMUC (Md U) or WCVT (Towson). When a lot of the alternative stations went away, I mostly switched to web radio sources.

Other than an occasional bit of NPR for news or celtic/folk/jazz on the weekend, my home tuner is off.


I listen to Rock, Hip hop, country and blues
I receive alot of FM, but the big stations seem overmodulated
don't they turn it down at night...maybe
I read somewhere that ones hearing changes during the day..
but ...my FM tuner seems to distort .in any case .during some weather
A good FM Ant.. would certainly help..

[Fort Knox]

One issue is, if I recall, Camp Washington is rather low, if I recall, with a lot of woods in the way,
and you are looking quite a ways across town.

I'm surprised.. but your right....Camp Springs MD ..200 ft Fairfax Va 400 ft ASL

[hjames]

One issue is Camp Washington is rather low, if I recall,
with a lot of woods in the way, and you are looking quite a ways across town.

I'm surprised.. but your right....Camp Springs MD ..200 ft Fairfax Va 400 ft ASL
Course Burtonsville, Md where I did most of my heavy listening,
was higher than either at 489 foot.

But I'm thinking the forest between you and DC may have something to do with it as well -
trees leaf out and fill with moisture, signals get attenuated. Your best season may be winter.

[NickH]

Physic's suck some times. Check out your modes of propagation. Everything changes from day to night. Signals lose the ability to travel as far for certian frequencies. Others go farther. Has to do with the suns effect on the ionosphere. Its been a very long time since Ive go over the stuff. You might have good luck looking at a american radio relay league handbook before you buy a new antenna since it might not help. Cleaning the antenna will do nothing at these frequencies. Unless you had an alumium foil storm recently.

Nick

[Fort Knox]

If you thinking of upgrading your FM antenna than here is a link to one of the better ones.

http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD6055P.pdf
(http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD6055P.pdf)
Baron030:)

I'm only about 10 mi from Antenna Central in Wash DC
But this big old tv Ant I'm using has obviously got issues......

[Baron030]

I'm only about 10 mi from Antenna Central in Wash DC

Hi Fort Knox
I didn’t realize that you lived that close to the transmitters.
You are right the Winegard HD-6055P would be over kill.
So, you might want to look into one of their other models.
Years ago, I lived in a house about 20 miles from the transmitters here in Chicago.
And for a while, I was using nothing more than indoor wire dipole that came with my Kenwood receiver.
But, I later upgraded to a Radio Shack equivalent of the Winegard HD-6000.
And the difference was night and day between the indoor wire dipole and the FM antenna with 4 active elements.
It was like taking off several blankets from in front of my old JBL 030 speakers.
And what was the most dramatic change was the improvement in the stereo channel separation.
This was something I totally did not expect.
I am speculating that the tighter polar pattern on the multi-element antenna was eliminating the audio equivalent to television ghosting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosting_(television (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghosting_(television))

http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD-6000.pdf (http://www.winegard.com/kbase/upload/HD-6000.pdf)

Baron030 :)

[Ruediger]

It is an antenna made from cable. The upper part of the "T" measures lambda/2, which is about 1.5 meters in FM band.

The directivity depends on the way You mount it. You can make it omnidirectional or dipole.

http://www.radiostore.de/images/wurfantenne-kopie.jpg

Ruediger

[Baron030]

Pictured below is the polar pattern of a simple wire dipole antenna.
If the antenna axis is set vertically or the two leads are curved, you will get an omnidirectional pattern.
Keeping the two leads straight and setting the axis horizontal and you will get a figure 8 dipole pattern.
So, for maximum gain and noise rejection the antenna axis should be horizontal and it's axis should be set at a right angle to the FM station transmitter.
The advantage of a multi-element antenna is that it is much more directional than a dipole.
So, it can reject more noise and reflected FM signals.
In Fort Knot’s case, a simple wire dipole antenna should provide more than enough gain.
So, I think gain is not the issue here, it is the strong reflected FM signals. (ghosting)
From my own experience, a multi-element FM antenna did make my stereo sound a whole lot better.
So, that is why I am recommending a multi-element antenna instead of the dipole design.

Baron030:)
58544

[hjames]

Pictured below is the polar pattern of a simple wire dipole antenna.
If the antenna axis is set vertically or the two leads are curved, you will get an omnidirectional pattern.
Keeping the two leads straight and setting the axis horizontal and you will get a figure 8 dipole pattern.
So, for maximum gain and noise rejection the antenna axis should be horizontal and it's axis should be set at a right angle to the FM station transmitter.
The advantage of a multi-element antenna is that it is much more directional than a dipole.
So, it can reject more noise and reflected FM signals.
In Fort Knot’s case, a simple wire dipole antenna should provide more than enough gain.
So, I think gain is not the issue here, it is the strong reflected FM signals. (ghosting)
From my own experience, a multi-element FM antenna did make my stereo sound a whole lot better.
So, that is why I am recommending a multi-element antenna instead of the dipole design.

Baron030:)
58544

Agreed - an antenna with a narrow beam width is a good thing - but even as close as he is,
if there are reflections present, he may need a rotor or some other way to rotate the antenna
to hit the desired node of the signal for best reception.

[Fort Knox]

It is an antenna made from cable. The upper part of the "T" measures lambda/2, which is about 1.5 meters in FM band.

The directivity depends on the way You mount it. You can make it omnidirectional or dipole.

http://www.radiostore.de/images/wurfantenne-kopie.jpg

Ruediger
Well....I got up on the windy roof...unhooked the big old TV Ant..
Found an old 60" peice of old TV Flat cable (still stuck to the house )
tip tied both ends ...taped it across the big old Ant...
hooked up the down feed.. to it......and oh.. what a differance it made!!
wow ...clean sound:) (even on the worst stations..thanks for all the help..guys

[Fort Knox]

Now I'm having trouble getting a "Stereo" signal from Baltimore:dont-know:

[Hoerninger]

trouble getting a "Stereo" signal from Baltimore:dont-know:
What about turning the antenna to the most beloved and/or weakest station?

I did it this way living north of Hamburg /Germany with more than 20 different stations, but my antennas position under the roof is fixed.
____________
Peter

[hjames]

Now I'm having trouble getting a "Stereo" signal from Baltimore:dont-know:

Of course, Baltimore is a completely different direction from Broadcast Hill in DC.
SO - the EASIEST answer is a second antenna and run a second downlead with an antenna switch so you can toggle between Balt and DC feeds.
The other option is to get a rotator installed so you can dial in your station from the comfort of your music room!

[Audiobeer]

During daytime I get fair FM signal...
At night it's ...like ..outstanding by comparion
Is there some FIX I can do??:crying:

What tuner are you using. To me the older tuners always were stellar compared to the crappy new recievers.

[Baron030]

Well....I got up on the windy roof...unhooked the big old TV Ant..
Found an old 60" peice of old TV Flat cable (still stuck to the house )
tip tied both ends ...taped it across the big old Ant...
hooked up the down feed.. to it......and oh.. what a differance it made!!
wow ...clean sound (even on the worst stations..thanks for all the help..guys

It sounds like you took Ruediger’s advice and made yourself a wire dipole antenna.
In a way, I am not surprised that you are hearing a big improvement.
A lot of old TV antennas are not designed for FM radio reception.
And most combination VHF & UHF TV antennas have two sets of leads and then use a devise to combine the two sets of leads into a single down lead.
And that devise actually filters out FM signals to improve VHF picture quality.
While you could upgrade to a better combination TV antenna that has VHF, UHF and FM reception, I would still recommend going with a dedicated FM antenna.
A dedicated FM antenna is not a compromised design, and it may even be else expensive as well.
You might want to try one of the links below:
You just might find that some of the stations you want are a lot further away and have a lot weaker signal than you think.
So, that “Over kill” Winegard antenna may not be over kill after all.
Short of overloading the receiver’s input there really is no such thing as over kill.
All receivers will sound better with a nice strong clean signal.
So, treat yourself to a nice new antenna, wire it with some 75-ohm coax, and enjoy…

http://www.v-soft.com/ZipSignal/
http://www.radio-locator.com/

Baron030:)

[Fort Knox]

What tuner are you using. To me the older tuners always were stellar compared to the crappy new recievers.

Actually I'm using a Sony STR AV310 $35 bucks
from the thrift store..

[Ruediger]

A "good" antenna does have:
o the dipole to pick up the signal
o directors towards the sender, they increase the gain,
o reflectors behind the dipole, they suppress the reflections from behind.

When You have good reception with a dipole then there should not be strong reflections, so You can try to make Your antenna omnidirectional. And thus receive several stations from no matter where they are.

Take a disk of styrofoam, ca. 50 cm diameter. Attach the "upper part of the T" to the side of the disk. Your antenna should now be round.

Ruediger

[Baron030]

Actually I'm using a Sony STR AV310 $35 bucks from the thrift store..

Ruediger, you may be right and I am way over engineering this…$$$$
I like your idea of curving the leads on a wire dipole.
It sounds like a variation of the “S” curve (folded dipole).
Another option would be to make a second wire dipole, wire it in parallel, and then stack them vertically to form a turnstile antenna.
So, Fort Knox, you now have some more options to try.

Baron030:)
58577

[Fort Knox]

Of course, Baltimore is a completely different direction from Broadcast Hill in DC.
SO - the EASIEST answer is a second antenna and run a second downlead with an antenna switch so you can toggle between Balt and DC feeds.
The other option is to get a rotator installed so you can dial in your station from the comfort of your music room!

I like your resoursefullness with the "Baltimore Switch" That's kinda like my style;)
Who knows...I could make my roof look like Wisconsin Ave......

[Mr. Widget]

I solved my FM reception problem by using tunein. I use it through a Sonos Connect, which at $350 is pretty cheap considering all that it brings to the table. I plug it's S/PDIF output into my DAC... it may not be the last word in Hi-Fi, but it's pretty darn good. There are many other ways to access tunein, but with Sonos I can easily tune in New York, Paris, or the weak classical San Francisco station with excellent reception.


Widget

[Fort Knox]

I solved my FM reception problem by using tunein. I use it through a Sonos Connect, which at $350 is pretty cheap considering all that it brings to the table. I plug it's S/PDIF output into my DAC... it may not be the last word in Hi-Fi, but it's pretty darn good. There are many other ways to access tunein, but with Sonos I can easily tune in New York, Paris, or the weak classical San Francisco station with excellent reception.


Widget

I pulled up www.tunein.com (http://www.tunein.com) and it's pretty Rad Man.... clean too

[Fort Knox]

58605
I added another Ant.. for Baltimore/Wash DC w/ant. switch

However ..the switch didn't work ..too much interference..
The New Larger Ant, a Winegard Gr8050...however,....(pointed/Balt)
90 degrees from DC .. picked up everything
.....all over the place...