Best High frequency transducer

[tesla]

I know we all have our opinions, but, (regardless of brand or age), what is your favorite tweeter?


And, what is your favorite design?



Why?

[frank23]

I always come back to the combination of the 2420 and 2344 horn. Have tried many other compression drivers and some tweeters, but in the end, the 2420/2344 combo from 1600Hz is what does it for me.

[rudy sesztak]

The JBL077 is fantastic, might be as good ,as the much more expensive JBL Be tweeters.They are more efficient to. Many people on this forum love the 077.- RUDY

[Mannermusic]

The JBL077 is fantastic, might be as good ,as the much more expensive JBL Be tweeters.They are more efficient to. Many people on this forum love the 077.- RUDY

Yep!;) Ideal for DIY.

[4313B]

Yep!;) Ideal for DIY.True enough.

might be as good ,as the much more expensive JBL Be tweeters.For sound reinforcement definitely.

For home hi-fidelity Prenta's 045 design sporting the Ti, Mg, and Be diaphragms is quite superior. But then, that was the intent. :)

[SEAWOLF97]

I know we all have our opinions, but, (regardless of brand or age), what is your favorite tweeter?


And, what is your favorite design?



Why?

I have some yamahas with Be tweets that are quite good ....have had 077's and they did very well. Current favorite is the ESS AMT (it does mid work too)

[HCSGuy]

For home hi-fidelity Prenta's 045 design sporting the Ti, Mg, and Be diaphragms is quite superior. But then, that was intent. :)

I'll agree - I was blown away when I heard the HF detail in my 800 Arrays - much better than any of the other horn loaded JBL's I've had (too bad the bottom can't keep up with either of the horns on my Arrays).

I've also been really impressed with the tweeter in the TiK series (025Ti) - It's my favorite JBL dome, and really blows away the 035tia, which makes me wish I could retrofit it into my dad's 250Ti's...

Non-JBL, I do most of my listening through Sonos Faber Auditor Monitors, and their ring-radiator is really good, though they implement it better in some models than in others.

[Mannermusic]

True enough.
For sound reinforcement definitely.

For home hi-fidelity Prenta's 045 design sporting the Ti, Mg, and Be diaphragms is quite superior. But then, that was intent. :)

You know, the biggest improvement I've ever experienced with those old rings was to get 'em on a separate amp (had a tri-amp years ago). Timbers worked up a scheme for this using a hybrid passive input into a small chip amp. Much simpler approach. Remember that?

[4313B]

Current favorite is the ESS AMT (it does mid work too)I want to order a pair of those soon.
Remember that?Yes I do. :)

[SEAWOLF97]

I want to order a pair of those soon.

hope you are serious. Have read that since the patents expired, they are in production again and featured in some higher priced speakers .

Mine are the large silver ones in the 2 way 10b. the sweet spot is huge. mellow, but can be rather sharp depending on settings. I prefer them to the 077. People who have heard them all have the same question ....
"how much do you want for 'em " ???

I've always been fond of L26's, but these (2 way , 10 inch w/10 inch PR just blow those JBL's away) ..the drivers are all cast .. nice quality.

old original AMT* drivers still sell for abt $300 pr. (*air motion transformers)

[BMWCCA]

hope you are serious. Have read that since the patents expired, they are in production again and featured in some higher priced speakers . . . old original AMT* drivers still sell for abt $300 pr. (*air motion transformers)


Check Parts Unlimited: http://www.parts-express.com/term/heil?srch=heil

[SEAWOLF97]

Check Parts Unlimited: http://www.parts-express.com/term/heil?srch=heil

OKAY..they are on sale for abt $350 each ..

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=264-600#Reviews

I had some old Jantzen electrostats ...the HF was incredible, BUT the sweet spot was like an inch wide ...the AMTs is very wide. Don't know how they stayed off my radar for so long ..:dont-know:

[tesla]

I too have some ESS tweets. They sound nice with my AMT-1's.
But, like anything else, the design is flawed. My L65's have superior bass. The later ESS's attempted to fix the problem by adding a passive woofer, haven't heard one, so I don't know how it went.



QUOTE=SEAWOLF97;341511]I have some yamahas with Be tweets that are quite good ....have had 077's and they did very well. Current favorite is the ESS AMT (it does mid work too)[/QUOTE]

[MikeBrewster77]

The later ESS's attempted to fix the problem by adding a passive woofer, haven't heard one, so I don't know how it went.

It went fairly well if memory serves. I had a pair of the PS-5s with a 10" LF driver and the rear passive radiator in the 90's; I recall them being quite nice, and still count them among the few I kick myself in the ass for letting go. Picked 'em up for $8.00 at an annual charity sale in a rather affluent neighborhood. Replaced the blown passive rads, and was on my way. That said, my frame of reference for quality sound was a lot different then than it is today and I'm working from a nearly 20 year old memory; if I heard them today I might feel differently. Agree that the tweeter was pretty amazing though - that much I do solidly recall.

[SEAWOLF97]

I too have some ESS tweets. They sound nice with my AMT-1's.
But, like anything else, the design is flawed. My L65's have superior bass. The later ESS's attempted to fix the problem by adding a passive woofer, haven't heard one, so I don't know how it went.

did not care for the L65 bass ... on stands or on the floor,
it never sounded right TO ME


Yeah JBL tried to get the bass right on that model three different times. It never really worked out. It's unrealistic to expect a driver with that kind of bottom end to sound very good with that much boundary reinforcement (close to the floor).

Like others have said, get them up off the floor so the slot is near ear level and they start to sound more normal.

Coupled with the grille I think it is a very nice looking box. The boxes make great subwoofer boxes with the right drivers.

the ESS AMT 10b has a 10 inch passive on the rear and the bass seems more realistic to me ....one forum member was telling me abt an ESS college tour in the 70's where they had blind testing between the 10b (bigger cab, but smaller LF driver) and L100's. The story goes that the AMT was the clear winner.

from Wiki:

Nelson Pass, currently of Passlabs (an amplifier builder) was employed by ESS during the production of the early amt-loaded speaker designs incorporating 10-inch woofers

5 separate patents for the production and licensing of the Air-Motion Transformer (including any and all upgrades to its pleated membrane) expired sequentially in:
Jan. 1, 2002 Aug. 2, 2007 Nov. 1, 2007 Aug. 15, 2008 Jul. 10, 2009

There are a couple of companies producing Air-Motion Transformer style systems: Precide (Switzerland) who calls their version the AVT (Air Velocity Transformer), ELAC (Germany) who calls their version of the transducer JET or PI, ADAM (Germany), FAL (Japan), or ETON.



Agree that the tweeter was pretty amazing though - that much I do solidly recall.

“SOUND AS CLEAR AS LIGHT”

and still made in USA

http://www.essspeakersusa.com/

[Mr. Widget]

Hey "Wolf" thank you for the PE and ESS links... very interesting.

Like I need one more unfinished speaker project in my life!

I do remember being impressed by the AMT-1s back in the day. As I recall they were a bit more expensive than most other similarly sized speakers, but they did sound pretty good blasting out Rock and Roll.


Widget

[ivica]

The JBL077 is fantastic, might be as good ,as the much more expensive JBL Be tweeters.They are more efficient to. Many people on this forum love the 077.- RUDY

I can agree with RUDY, but the price for the real-good pair of JBL077 is sometime a problem.
May be for the experiments:
Beyam CP21-F, or BMS 4540 can be acceptable, or even BMS4590P

Regards
Ivica

[RKLee]

Just curious what is the price range of a 075, 076, & 077?

I have a pair of old EV T350s. I bought them back in 1975 because they were cheaper than the JBL 077s. I believe the 077s cost $150 each NIB. The T350 were like $80 each.

[Mr. Widget]

Just curious what is the price range of a 075, 076, & 077?

I have a pair of old EV T350s. I bought them back in 1975 because they were cheaper than the JBL 077s. I believe the 077s cost $150 each NIB. The T350 were like $80 each.You made a good investment. :D Today depending on condition the JBLs can be as much or more than the EVs ($200pr-$1000pr), but because the JBLs were produced in much higher numbers the EVs are more scarce and typically command prices as high or higher than the JBLs.

I think the JBL prices directly correlate to production numbers and not sonic quality. In mint condition, the 076 tend to go for the highest prices and the 075s tend to go for the lowest. The pro variants of all JBLs tend to be less valuable on the used market.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

The pro variants of all JBLs tend to be less valuable on the used market.
Widget

why ?

[Mr. Widget]

why ?Less valuable in terms of resale price... not intrinsic value. My guess is that it is primarily due to market ignorance. Many people know about LE15As but not about 2215Bs... as an example.

There is also the cosmetics... many feel the 077 looks cooler than the 2405... and then there is the fact that a hard driven road weary PA driver will likely be in far worse shape than a home speaker that was rarely pushed. They can both look brand new if they were only mounted once and carefully removed... but the pro piece may be far from spec.


Widget

[SEAWOLF97]

and then there is the fact that a hard driven road weary PA driver will likely be in far worse shape than a home speaker that was rarely pushed.
Widget

yes, BUT ....in many cases (excluding JBL, I think ) isn't a lot of Pro gear much better built ?? ..... and designed to be used hard, if not 24/7 ?

many friends see the Pro market as the area for great deals , where the GP doesn't really understand what a particular model number means. ....look at all the forum traffic just used in discussing 43xx monitors.

(slight ramble..)

I remember an interview of a Hollywood star who shopped thrift stores as a hobby ..
when asked "why" ? her answer was "used quality is better than new junk"

in fact, isn't that mantra what drives most of LHF's members purchases (excluding the minority who buys new ... NTTAWWT :blink:) .... and that there is a much greater BFTB
in vintage JBL than in new BestBuy at the same price ?

[Mr. Widget]

yes, BUT ....in many cases (excluding JBL, I think ) isn't a lot of Pro gear much better built ?? ..... and designed to be used hard, if not 24/7 ?:blink:

BUT... we are talking about JBL.

Just so that we don't confuse those less knowledgeable about JBL drivers... in the past, JBL Consumer and Pro drivers were identical in most cases except for the color of the paint. These days, while there are a few examples of JBL Synthesis drivers where the home version is actually superior to the pro in most cases there are no longer identical drivers being used in both Consumer and Pro products and for the most part the Consumer line is nothing like the Pro in terms of build quality and durability.


Widget

[ivica]

You made a good investment. :D Today depending on condition the JBLs can be as much or more than the EVs ($200pr-$1000pr), but because the JBLs were produced in much higher numbers the EVs are more scarce and typically command prices as high or higher than the JBLs.

I think the JBL prices directly correlate to production numbers and not sonic quality. In mint condition, the 076 tend to go for the highest prices and the 075s tend to go for the lowest. The pro variants of all JBLs tend to be less valuable on the used market.


Widget

Expecting that the diaphragm for 2405/077 known as D16R2405 is over 150 usd per piece (here in Europe over 150 euro), so it can be expected that 400~500 usd per 2405 pair is something not unexpected, and for 077 even more.
For 076, no idea at all.

regards
ivica

[4313B]

JBL Consumer no longer makes their own transducers. They source everything from various vendors, one of which is Harman Audio de Mexico (formerly JBL Professional Manufacturing of Northridge, CA). Only the very best JBL Consumer systems use anything from HAdM.


yes, BUT ....in many cases (excluding JBL, I think ) isn't a lot of Pro gear much better built ?? ..... and designed to be used hard, if not 24/7 ?Legacy JBL transducers all came off the same lines with the same quality build.

What always made me chuckle was how some of the transducers were labeled specifically for Pro and some weren't. Consider the LE10H or 128H used in both Consumer and Pro with that same designation, someone was too lazy to give them Pro numbers? 2235H or 2245H in Consumer products? Again, no Consumer number? What's up with that? :p And what was up with the different return casings on the 124A and 2203A or the 136A and 2231A? Screwy! Was it really all that important to differentiate between Pro and Consumer by casting two differently shaped return casings? :rotfl:

There is still some parts interchangeability going on though it isn't anything close to what it was. 243x versus 435x for example. Heck, that's about the only example still in existance that I can think of.

Incidentally, as wonderful as that driver is, it is not a venerable LE85/2420/2421. If you look at it crosseyed that little dab of superglue holding the insanely powerful neo mag ring in place will fail and crush the voice coil. What is does have over the ancient LE85/2420/2421 is weight savings and JBL Pro is really on board with the diets. If the price of neo stabilizes we could very well see the demise of fifty pound drivers like the 1500AL in favor of drivers like the 2216Nd. And that's a good thing. While I certainly admire the sonic excellence of the 1500AL the weight is atrocious.

After hearing the 045's over a period of years I finally gave up on the ring radiators and recently gave my last pair of Northridge D16R2405's to another forum member. I wouldn't have been happy unless I'd been able to find a pair of pristine 077 or 076 cores anyway. :p And a cracked crystal in an 077 a few years down the road? Well, I just don't need that kind of heartache anymore. :rotfl:

Quite frankly, the 476Mg and 476Be do everything I want on the top end despite their larger apertures. The 045 in the DD66000 is superfluous for all intent and purpose. Only a teenager might be able to hear it (one that hasn't had iPod buds stuck in their ears for years) and they aren't the target demographic. :rotfl:


BTW... where are the Be diaphragms for the JBL 1-inch exit c.d.'s such as the LE85/2420/2421/2425/2426?? That's what we all really need.