Help needed with K2 S5800s from Harman Store

[Dave_72]

Ok, I tried to order a pair and I got only one. I couldn't order another. They became out of stock after my first order.

Should I cancel the order? Or have them (cust. service) try to locate another one?

Or keep this one speaker and wait until they get some more in?

I also contacted a JBL rep to see if he would be of any assistance.

Any comments or suggestions are most welcome.

I really want the speakers and hate to cancel the order.

Thanks for your time.

-Dave :cool:

[MikeBrewster77]

As absolutely fantastic of a speaker as it is, and given the bargain pricing, I can understand why you'd be tempted to let the order go through and hope for the best. That said, I've followed Harman's bargain basement, everything must go, we can't offer these deals all day tent sale pretty closely, and have seen a year+ lapse without an additional unit of a given model show up. Unfortunately, I'd have to recommend canceling, and as someone who's done quite well buying direct clearance items from them, that's a difficult thing to say, but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking the chance if it were I.

[Dave_72]

As absolutely fantastic of a speaker as it is, and given the bargain pricing, I can understand why you'd be tempted to let the order go through and hope for the best. That said, I've followed Harman's bargain basement, everything must go, we can't offer these deals all day tent sale pretty closely, and have seen a year+ lapse without an additional unit of a given model show up. Unfortunately, I'd have to recommend canceling, and as someone who's done quite well buying direct clearance items from them, that's a difficult thing to say, but I wouldn't feel comfortable taking the chance if it were I.

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I hear ya. Since they did not respond to my emails, I called and they have no idea when they'll be getting more in. So yeah, looks like a crapshoot. I haven't heard back from the JBL rep, either. It's gonna be interesting to see what he's gonna say.

This is frustrating, and looks like there's not much I can do about it at the moment.

Anyway, life goes on, and I'll keep everyone in the loop as to what happens.

-D

[Dave_72]

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, I hear ya. Since they did not respond to my emails, I called and they have no idea when they'll be getting more in. So yeah, looks like a crapshoot. I haven't heard back from the JBL rep, either. It's gonna be interesting to see what he's gonna say.

This is frustrating, and looks like there's not much I can do about it at the moment.

Anyway, life goes on, and I'll keep everyone in the loop as to what happens.

-D

Well, the order was cancelled because it turned out they didn't have any in stock. Anyway, the JBL rep has forwarded my case to another dept. Just waiting to hear back from them. In the meantime, I have this 15 percent off coupon good for 6 months @ the Harman store.

[MikeBrewster77]

In the meantime, I have this 15 percent off coupon good for 6 months @ the Harman store.

VERY COOL! Hopefully they'll have something in stock worth spending it on shortly! :cool:

[Dave_72]

VERY COOL! Hopefully they'll have something in stock worth spending it on shortly! :cool:



Thanks. I've got my fingers crossed. By the way, the JBL rep was of no help. He tried to push the current line on me and then said the S5800s are not for sale here in the US.

That's basically the conversation. I'm not saying whether this is good or bad, just letting all of you know...

[4313B]

Well, the order was cancelled because it turned out they didn't have any in stock.They aren't real big on keeping score like that.

I can't tell you how many times something has been listed as being in stock and available only to vaporize.

My absolute all time favorite was the 180 DX-1's listed as in stock and immediately available. The PRESIDENT of JBL Consumer offered this forum a deal on as many as we wanted only to find out that they had all been tossed into the trash at some point. :rotfl:


Thanks. I've got my fingers crossed. By the way, the JBL rep was of no help. He tried to push the current line on me and then said the S5800s are not for sale here in the US.

That's basically the conversation. I'm not saying whether this is good or bad, just letting all of you know...It's just different. It's a whole other company now. It doesn't generate a whole lot of passion that's for sure.

[Dave_72]

They aren't real big on keeping score like that.

I can't tell you how many times something has been listed as being in stock and available only to vaporize.

My absoluite all time favorite was the 180 DX-1's listed as in stock and immediately available. The PRESIDENT of JBL Consumer offered this forum a deal on as many as we wanted only to find out that they had all been tossed into the trash at some point. :rotfl:

It's just different. It's a whole other company now. It doesn't generate a whole lot of passion that's for sure.

Sheesh, that's pretty bad...I see I'm not the only one. They (the harman store) had me goin' crazy there for a while!

Yeah, I see that. Sad but true?

[audiomagnate]

It sounds like their crazy parts department. I think the whole company is on acid or drunk or maybe both.

[hjames]

It sounds like their crazy parts department.
I think the whole company is on acid or drunk or maybe both.

Dope, or got an attitude!

[Dave_72]

It sounds like their crazy parts department. I think the whole company is on acid or drunk or maybe both.

Seems like it! :confused:

[Dave_72]

Seems like it! :confused:

Ok, here's the email I got from cust. service...


"We no longer have any additional K2 S5800 speakers available and it is not likely that we will have any more stock on this model going forward. We can discuss that further when you are available. Please let me know if there is a specific phone number and time I should contact you instead. Thank you!"



Sincerely,





HAROLD KEVELOS

Technical Support

Harman International

Lifestyle Division


I'll keep you guys posted.

[JeffW]

You don't have any, you aren't getting any more. What's the discussion, Harold?

[Dave_72]

You don't have any, you aren't getting any more. What's the discussion, Harold?

Well, maybe they'll notify me right away when they get more K2s in?

Anyway, if he calls I will be chatting with him @ noon PST.

[MikeBrewster77]

I have three messages into various Harman divisions at the moment:
Just a plain old parts request - nothing actually broken for once, just an enquiry into a replacement component
The HK990 for which I paid full retail when it first hit the market now produces static for about a half an hour after it's first powered on - and that's a relatively new development aside from the intermittent dropping of certain display elements that I'd sadly learned to live with rather than deal with HK "service" and the warranty process.
And last, but certainly not least, the LE14H-3 in one of PS1400s I just received only a few short days ago has a nasty, nasty VC rub I discovered after driving myself batshit insane trying to figure out what in the #$%& was vibrating so annoyingly in my room. I should point out that this was after waiting 5 business days to receive them though having paid $145 extra for "next day" shipping. Come to think of it, since I never did hear back from the "supervisor" (translated: someone - probably any old schlep in fact - who's not in India) who was supposed to call me after I requested a refund for the "overnight" shipping charges, I guess I technically have four calls into Harman service at the moment.
In short, I'm tired of this shit. Every single item I've ever ordered from Harman direct has been an issue: First the Ti10Ks, then the HK990, and now the PS1400s. That of course doesn't include the FL8350 and FL8380 I bought from authorized retailers - each of which remarkably died just outside of the two year warranty period. Seriously, essentially every f-cking thing I've owned from this company since about say 2001-2 has either arrived in shambles or has broken within an unreasonably short period of time. And the sad part is I take exceptionally good care of shit - I still own audio equipment I bought secondhand as a damned pre-adolescent that sees daily use to this day. Shit, the Akai receiver in my bedroom that gets used every night is actually older than I am and I've owned it more than half its life. My parents' first CD player - an RCA circa the mid 80's - has been in my care (and also sees more use than it probably should) since the early 90's. I'm the furthest thing I know from someone who is hard on things!

So yeah, I will send EVERYTHING back to Harman that is even remotely flawed at this point. If they're going to unload shit on consumers, then I'll keep throwing the shit right back at them until they can get it right.

And then without a doubt, I'll be taking my audio dollars elsewhere the next time I'm considering an upgrade. Once bitten, twice shy is one thing, but this is just getting out of f-cking hand.

/end rant

[hjames]

That's rich heh heh heh!
When they get more in at the closeout prices, he he he!

Good luck on that ...


Well, maybe they'll notify me right away when they get more K2s in?

Anyway, if he calls I will be chatting with him @ noon PST.

[MikeBrewster77]

When I pulled the LE14H-3 out of the PS1400 to be completely certain that it was in-fact the VC rubbing (I already knew, but I was hoping against hope) I literally said out loud when I got a look at/feel of it "GodDAMN they sure can build a driver!"

I was so impressed I had to remind myself before I fired off the e-mail to customer service that I was mad as hell and I wasn't going to take it anymore. Seriously, it is one remarkable piece!

[hjames]

Gotcha Mike - after that "Top of the Line" high-priced AVR-7300 I had died, and through a huge ordeal I got it repaired
and within 6 months it died again ... !! I swore I never trust HK on anothe big buck purchase.
I tried a few of the lower-end refurbs AVR for use as front ends in its place, but they were ridiculous,
so I gave up on the new HK sheet ... from HK brands its either vintage or no sale.

There are some folks at Harman who truly do give a hoot - but the inertia of the rest of the place isn't worth the ordeal.

I don't have friends in Northridge to give me a hand getting through Customer Circus -
and frankly I have no desire to reward such ignorance with further purchases.

Happy with what I've got and I'll shop elsewhere if/when the need for new gear occurs.




I have three messages into various Harman divisions at the moment:

Just a plain old parts request - nothing actually broken for once, just an enquiry into a replacement component
The HK990 for which I paid full retail when it first hit the market now produces static for about a half an hour after it's first powered on - and that's a relatively new development aside from the intermittent dropping of certain display elements that I'd sadly learned to live with rather than deal with HK "service" and the warranty process.
And last, but certainly not least, the LE14H-3 in one of PS1400s I just received only a few short days ago has a nasty, nasty VC rub I discovered after driving myself batshit insane trying to figure out what in the #$%& was vibrating so annoyingly in my room. I should point out that this was after waiting 5 business days to receive them though having paid $145 extra for "next day" shipping. Come to think of it, since I never did hear back from the "supervisor" (translated: someone - probably any old schlep in fact - who's not in India) who was supposed to call me after I requested a refund for the "overnight" shipping charges, I guess I technically have four calls into Harman service at the moment.

In short, I'm tired of this shit. Every single item I've ever ordered from Harman direct has been an issue: First the Ti10Ks, then the HK990, and now the PS1400s. That of course doesn't include the FL8350 and FL8380 I bought from authorized retailers - each of which remarkably died just outside of the two year warranty period. Seriously, essentially every f-cking thing I've owned from this company since about say 2001-2 has either arrived in shambles or has broken within an unreasonably short period of time. And the sad part is I take exceptionally good care of shit - I still own audio equipment I bought secondhand as a damned pre-adolescent that sees daily use to this day. Shit, the Akai receiver in my bedroom that gets used every night is actually older than I am and I've owned it more than half its life. My parents' first CD player - an RCA circa the mid 80's - has been in my care (and also sees more use than it probably should) since the early 90's. I'm the furthest thing I know from someone who is hard on things!

So yeah, I will send EVERYTHING back to Harman that is even remotely flawed at this point. If they're going to unload shit on consumers, then I'll keep throwing the shit right back at them until they can get it right.

And then without a doubt, I'll be taking my audio dollars elsewhere the next time I'm considering an upgrade. Once bitten, twice shy is one thing, but this is just getting out of f-cking hand.

/end rant

[MikeBrewster77]

Totally agreed Heather! I remember the debacle you went though with that mess.

You are definitely right that there are some truly phenomenal service folks left stateside (or at least there were the last time I had a go-round with them; I hope they've managed to keep their jobs with all of the "developments" over the past year+.) Build quality and quality control, however, seem to be absolutely flat out abysmal these days, dependability is (as you well know) downright rotten, and while I can give a lot of allowances for clearance items and shipping f/ups, when your FLAGSHIP, self-described audiophile quality "most muscular amplifier ever to carry the Harman Kardon® name" falls apart after < two years of moderate duty, extremely minimal power cycles, and exceptionally delicate care, then yeah ... it's game over man. Maybe if it was a one off, but this is now three brand new, current model components of theirs I've had fail within ~ 2 years of purchase.

Like you, I'm happy with what I have (when it works.) My thought is to get the service I deserve within the warranty period and enjoy things from there. As long as GT is still working his magic and thus I know there is something left of the old company, I'll not wholly rule out JBL moving forward if and when I have the opportunity/urge to take the next audio step. The rest of Harman however ... well it wouldn't be polite in mixed company to say what I think they can go do to themselves.

[Dave_72]

That's rich heh heh heh!
When they get more in at the closeout prices, he he he!

Good luck on that ...

And you know this how?

I as a customer, can buy at a bargain or pay full price.

I prefer a bargain.

I know these speakers and any speakers are not worth full retail.

I know how this gear depreciates.

Thanks.

[MikeBrewster77]

And you know this how?

I think Heather's point is (and as you hang around a bit you'll see this as a recurring theme) that much of the passion that used to be behind the company we're all here because we love(d) is gone. There are still a few truly phenomenal folks working at JBL who are exceptional at what they do and whose dedication to their craft is entirely obvious, but that's become far more of the exception than the rule. And as Giskard mentioned, they're not great at "keeping score" on inventory, etc. Their put-items-on-clearance while still current/compete with their own retail partners/discontinue current models without promoting them market approach doesn't lend itself to the notion that they'll helpfully contact you in the event that an item you'd like to purchase becomes available. In short, the laugh out loud idea is that they'd do anything but simply throw whatever they happen to uncover in a warehouse on their clearance site or eBay (untested and poorly packaged as it may be) - or worse yet, destroy it for the loss/write off/playful "accounting."

Everyone loves a bargain - just don't expect Harman to personally call you when one becomes available.

[Dave_72]

I think Heather's point is (and as you hang around a bit you'll see this as a recurring theme) that much of the passion that used to be behind the company we're all here because we love(d) is gone. There are still a few truly phenomenal folks working at JBL who are exceptional at what they do and whose dedication to their craft is entirely obvious, but that's become far more of the exception than the rule. And as Giskard mentioned, they're not great at "keeping score" on inventory, etc. Their put-items-on-clearance while still current/compete with their own retail partners/discontinue current models without promoting them market approach doesn't lend itself to the notion that they'll helpfully contact you in the event that an item you'd like to purchase becomes available. In short, the laugh out loud idea is that they'd do anything but simply throw whatever they happen to uncover in a warehouse on their clearance site or eBay (untested and poorly packaged as it may be) - or worse yet, destroy it for the loss/write off/playful "accounting."

Everyone loves a bargain - just don't expect Harman to personally call you when one becomes available.

I see. I didn't mean to come off as blunt. I apologize if I did.

I'll make a note of it.

I just feel cheated that I didn't get the speakers, was given the runaround by the JBL rep (for both North and South America!,) and what have you.

I suppose they don't care, but perhaps there's a small chance I can get somewhere with these people.

I'll try to remain optimistic.

I'll let you know what happens.

Have a blessed evening.

[MikeBrewster77]

I didn't mean to come off as blunt. I apologize if I did.

I just feel cheated....

No apology needed. As someone sitting here in total silence with a big ass, gaping 14" hole staring at me from an otherwise very inviting PS1400 enclosure, I feel your pain and frustration. It reminds me of another time where I was sitting staring at two much smaller holes in large, furniture grade Scandinavian sonic sculptures, but I digress....

Seriously, I wish you the best of luck. Hope you're not too disillusioned by what you've read hear, but Harman's overall shortcomings are just too damned common an experience these days and I suppose some of us have become a bit jaded. Maybe your experience will be different and I truly hope that it is.

Enough of this sitting in silence crap, though -- hmm, Ti10Ks, L46s or Control 10s to fill it.....? :p

[JeffW]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

There were some really good prices on speakers in the clearance store. These got cleared out pretty quickly, and Harman figured it out pretty quickly. Then it started being single speakers for what pairs were previously selling for, and what was shipped was wrong or broken. One guy got a pair of K2 5800s IIRC, and one of them had a flawed finish. I think he ended up getting a good replacement, and that was about the last decent clearance deal I remember being posted. That was a at least a year ago, probably longer. So if Harman did get any K2 5800s, it'd likely be a single posted on the clearance store page, and be gone about the time somebody thought they'd bought it. In short, I think the salad days of getting good deals off the Harman clearance site are wilted. Some of use have had epic experiences trying to buy stuff from Harman, like being on the waiting list for a year to get a busted driver shipped loose in a plain box with no packing. It's that bad. ( Note to Mike Brewster: Both my LE14H-3s came shipped loose in a plain box with no packing. They actually survived, the UPS guy was actually cradling the busted open bottom of one box as he brought it to the door)

So there is a fleeting chance that you can buy something from them and actually get it delivered undamaged. There's also a Powerball drawing tomorrow night with similar odds. I'm buying a couple of Powerball tickets.

The good news is that you can contact your friendly Harman dealer, there have been recent instances of them getting some really good prices on B Stock items that don't show up on the clearance page.

So don't give up, but don't get discouraged when things go horribly wrong when dealing with these folks.

[MikeBrewster77]

( Note to Mike Brewster: Both my LE14H-3s came shipped loose in a plain box with no packing. They actually survived, the UPS guy was actually cradling the busted open bottom of one box as he brought it to the door)

I'd expect nothing less (more?) The UPS guy delivering my Ti10Ks had to forcibly hold one of the flaps supporting the 110lb speaker closed while he and I wrestled it up to the house. That didn't turn out too great either, though I'm amazed to this day more damage wasn't done than the two crushed tweets.

I too have a Powerball ticket for tomorrow night, and if I hit, I'm done with this damned clearance shit! :p

[Dave_72]

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away...

There were some really good prices on speakers in the clearance store. These got cleared out pretty quickly, and Harman figured it out pretty quickly. Then it started being single speakers for what pairs were previously selling for, and what was shipped was wrong or broken. One guy got a pair of K2 5800s IIRC, and one of them had a flawed finish. I think he ended up getting a good replacement, and that was about the last decent clearance deal I remember being posted. That was a at least a year ago, probably longer. So if Harman did get any K2 5800s, it'd likely be a single posted on the clearance store page, and be gone about the time somebody thought they'd bought it. In short, I think the salad days of getting good deals off the Harman clearance site are wilted. Some of use have had epic experiences trying to buy stuff from Harman, like being on the waiting list for a year to get a busted driver shipped loose in a plain box with no packing. It's that bad. ( Note to Mike Brewster: Both my LE14H-3s came shipped loose in a plain box with no packing. They actually survived, the UPS guy was actually cradling the busted open bottom of one box as he brought it to the door)

So there is a fleeting chance that you can buy something from them and actually get it delivered undamaged. There's also a Powerball drawing tomorrow night with similar odds. I'm buying a couple of Powerball tickets.

The good news is that you can contact your friendly Harman dealer, there have been recent instances of them getting some really good prices on B Stock items that don't show up on the clearance page.

So don't give up, but don't get discouraged when things go horribly wrong when dealing with these folks.


Ok, thank you for that. I'll make a note of it. B stock? Ok, I might try that. But aren't the new models made in Mexico? That's another reason why I want these older models because they were made in the US?

And as far as the newer designs are concerned, are the S4700s any good?

[Dave_72]

No apology needed. As someone sitting here in total silence with a big ass, gaping 14" hole staring at me from an otherwise very inviting PS1400 enclosure, I feel your pain and frustration. It reminds me of another time where I was sitting staring at two much smaller holes in large, furniture grade Scandinavian sonic sculptures, but I digress....

Seriously, I wish you the best of luck. Hope you're not too disillusioned by what you've read hear, but Harman's overall shortcomings are just too damned common an experience these days and I suppose some of us have become a bit jaded. Maybe your experience will be different and I truly hope that it is.

Enough of this sitting in silence crap, though -- hmm, Ti10Ks, L46s or Control 10s to fill it.....? :p

Sorry to hear that. Thanks. No, I'm not. The truth can sting at first but ultimately is more soothing in the long run.

[JeffW]

Ok, thank you for that. I'll make a note of it. B stock? Ok, I might try that. But aren't the new models made in Mexico? That's another reason why I want these older models because they were made in the US?

There was speculation that the wave of decent deals I spoke of was Harman clearing out the last of the US inventory before they made the move. I can't confirm that, I'm certainly not an insider with any contacts. But that was quite some time ago and that stuff is long gone. I sort of doubt anything for sale there now is still from the US era, but I have no way of being certain on that. If it's refurbs, they'd probably be refurbed with newer parts, I just don't know.


And as far as the newer designs are concerned, are the S4700s any good?

No idea, I'm not really up on the ins and outs of the newer stuff.

[Mr. Widget]

Regarding the US vs. Mexican produced JBLs... we have both in our demo and personal collections. There is no visual or sonic difference. There are tons of production issues resulting in supply shortages due to the relocation and and loss of the experienced work force, but the products that get released are indistinguishable from one another.

That said, I would prefer US made for nostalgia's sake.


Widget

[JeffW]

Here's a little (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31341-JBL-Direct-K2-S-5800-just-purchased-Yahooo!) light reading (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30464-K2-S5800-and-K2-S9800SE-on-sale) to hold you over in the meantime.

[Dave_72]

There was speculation that the wave of decent deals I spoke of was Harman clearing out the last of the US inventory before they made the move. I can't confirm that, I'm certainly not an insider with any contacts. But that was quite some time ago and that stuff is long gone. I sort of doubt anything for sale there now is still from the US era, but I have no way of being certain on that. If it's refurbs, they'd probably be refurbed with newer parts, I just don't know.



No idea, I'm not really up on the ins and outs of the newer stuff.

I see. Thank you for the info. Much appreciated.

[Dave_72]

Regarding the US vs. Mexican produced JBLs... we have both in our demo and personal collections. There is no visual or sonic difference. There are tons of production issues resulting in supply shortages due to the relocation and and loss of the experienced work force, but the products that get released are indistinguishable from one another.

That said, I would prefer US made for nostalgia's sake.


Widget

Ok, well that's cool. So the new or newer ones are a safe bet to buy? :)

[Dave_72]

Here's a little (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?31341-JBL-Direct-K2-S-5800-just-purchased-Yahooo!) light reading (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30464-K2-S5800-and-K2-S9800SE-on-sale) to hold you over in the meantime.

Ok, thanks!

[Dave_72]

Well, it's all over, ladies and gentlemen. Order cancelled. :( Thanks for everything. :wave:

[audiomagnate]

I was at Nakamichi in Torrance during the early 90s (beginning of the end) and this seems like deja vu all over again. A once great, proud company in a downward spiral. I will have to say that even though our long time shipping coordinator thought it was OK to drink tequila on Friday afternoons (everybody thought it was funny) he would NEVER have shipped anything without packing, even drunk. How does that even happen? And even twenty years ago, bad as things were, we knew how to count stuff. Have "The Walking Dead" broken through the gates at Northridge?

[hjames]

I was at Nakamichi in Torrance during the early 90s (beginning of the end) and this seems like deja vu all over again. A once great, proud company in a downward spiral. I will have to say that even though our long time shipping coordinator thought it was OK to drink tequila on Friday afternoons (everybody thought it was funny) he would NEVER have shipped anything without packing, even drunk. How does that even happen? And even twenty years ago, bad as things were, we knew how to count stuff. Have "The Walking Dead" broken through the gates at Northridge?

Does Northridge as-we-knew-it even exist anymore?
Is it even a shell of its once-significant self?

Does it even matter to Harmin' International anymore?

[Titanium Dome]

Does it even matter to Harmin' International anymore?


The mobile (read: auto and marine) components are still easy to buy and are packed well. They're following the money.

We see them as abandoning the DIY market and cheapening the hi-fi market, but they see it as cutting their losses. Lots of things get lost in a retreat. :(

[Dave_72]

Well, it's all over, ladies and gentlemen. Order cancelled. :( Thanks for everything. :wave:

Here's the latest: I got a hot deal on the S4700s from the JBL rep. I couldn't pass it up at the price, so I went for it.

I'll let you know how they are...thanks again.

[Mr. Widget]

Here's the latest: I got a hot deal on the S4700s from the JBL rep. I couldn't pass it up at the price, so I went for it.

I'll let you know how they are...thanks again.Great!

Congratulations!! Please do let us know how they work out for you.


Widget

[Mr. Widget]

Does Northridge as-we-knew-it even exist anymore?
Is it even a shell of its once-significant self?

Does it even matter to Harmin' International anymore?Yes, though it is quite different. The factory areas are being repurposed and there are acres of cubicals in some of it... these are the cubes where JBL Consumer now lives and other aspects of the company.

The R&D areas are mostly unchanged...

Dome, retreating from Hi-Fi? How can you say that with updated Everests and new Revel and Levinson on the way?


Widget

[audiomagnate]

Here's the latest: I got a hot deal on the S4700s from the JBL rep. I couldn't pass it up at the price, so I went for it.

I'll let you know how they are...thanks again.

Fantastic story. Are you allowed to tell us what you paid, or is this a sealed settlement?

[MikeBrewster77]

Here's the latest: I got a hot deal on the S4700s from the JBL rep. I couldn't pass it up at the price, so I went for it.

I'll let you know how they are...thanks again.

Well, this sounds like an all's well that ends well story! Definitely look forward to hearing how they work out for you.

[4313B]

Here's the latest: I got a hot deal on the S4700s from the JBL rep. I couldn't pass it up at the price, so I went for it.

I'll let you know how they are...thanks again.Awesome! :)

[Titanium Dome]

Dome, retreating from Hi-Fi? How can you say that with updated Everests and new Revel and Levinson on the way?


Widget

I'm not discounting the higher end products being produced or the short life span consumer stuff, but there are some big holes opening up for the JBL line as Harman consolidates its products.

It looks to me like all the best quality direct driver stuff is now in Revel's hands, not JBL. It looks like Infinity is moribund. Audio Access stuff is JBL rebrands a decade old.

JBL seems to be moving toward horns only, with passable but not exceptional entry level direct driver stuff or leftovers like Studio L.

Yep, Levinson puts out some new stuff, but it's overpriced and not that "new." It's all high margin gear that wouldn't fit my old-fashioned idea of "Hi-Fi" so much as a notion of "high end." The upcoming No. 52 pre is a great example of a product that's got marketing copy full of "Ultrahigh-end Luxury" boutique superlatives and looks pretty cool, but so what? Nothing all that new here and its not going to sell to anyone reading this anyway, just like the No. 53 amps.

Lexicon's product line is down to one new amp, one old processor, and three old but nice amps that are like the amps in other product lines.

HK stuff is mostly "Blah" with one or two exceptions.

Probably our definitions of Hi-Fi are different since it's such a dated and generic term these days. Everyone uses "high end" or "audiophile" or "reference" to describe things. To me, Hi-Fi was and is a descriptor for sound reproduction equipment that any middle class consumer could build or buy (typically on credit or layaway) with a month's wages that would reproduce music with a "you are there" experience--at least "you are there" relevant for the time.

Now Harman is catering to the middle class with cool iPod docks, satellite speakers, and HTIBs that can be purchased for cash with discretionary $$$. Look at the JBL.com site. Compare the Home Audio section to the Wireless & Docks or Auto & Marine sections. The Home Audio section is underwhelming to say the least. There are some good products there, but they are closer to lo-fi.

Compare that to the high margin stuff on JBLSynthesis.com. With the exception of Synthesis® Four (the old Performance Series) it's all horns, and with the exception of the LS Series, which should be in JBL.com IMO, the price of entry is outside middle class aspirations. If the LS Series were marketed at JBL.com at a more middle class consumer price, that would be a real Hi-Fi offering.

Well, this is way off thread. :o:

But it's good news that Dave got those JBL Synthesis S4700s! He should be one happy camper. :D

[Dave_72]

Great!

Congratulations!! Please do let us know how they work out for you.


Widget

I will! Thanks!

[Dave_72]

Fantastic story. Are you allowed to tell us what you paid, or is this a sealed settlement?

Not sure at the moment, I'll ask if I can refer people.

[Dave_72]

Well, this sounds like an all's well that ends well story! Definitely look forward to hearing how they work out for you.

Cool, thanks.

[Dave_72]

Awesome! :)

Thanks! :cool:

[Dave_72]

But it's good news that Dave got those JBL Synthesis S4700s! He should be one happy camper. :D

Thanks! I really wanted the K2s, but I ultimately couldn't swing 'em. :D

[4313B]

Some guy in SoCal was selling brand new empty K2-S5800 enclosures a few months ago. Too bad none of the components are available for sale so someone could load those up and make great use of them.

The designer seems to like his S4700 creations quite well. I hope you are happy with the turn of events. :)

[Dave_72]

Some guy in SoCal was selling brand new empty K2-S5800 enclosures a few months ago. Too bad none of the components are available for sale so someone could load those up and make great use of them.

The designer seems to like his S4700 creations quite well. I hope you are happy with the turn of events. :)

Yeah, that would have been pretty cool.

Ok, thanks. I hope so too!

[Dave_72]

Ok, they're finally here at my place. Basically, they sound great. However, the ulta high frequency driver on the right speaker is not putting out as much sound as the left one resulting in a slightly dull sound. The JBL rep contacted my dealer, and the dealer's giving me a hard time because he claims "it sounded good to me." All I want is to have that sucker yanked out and have it tested. Unfortunately I don't have any test equipment to do this. So I was thinking to have the authorized JBL tech come over to my place and do this for me.

Anyway, that's the story for now. I will keep you guys and gals updated...

[Titanium Dome]

I'll be Las Vegas this weekend. Want me to go over and kick his a$$? :moon:

[audiomagnate]

Ok, they're finally here at my place. Basically, they sound great. However, the ulta high frequency driver on the right speaker is not putting out as much sound as the left one resulting in a slightly dull sound. The JBL rep contacted my dealer, and the dealer's giving me a hard time because he claims "it sounded good to me." All I want is to have that sucker yanked out and have it tested. Unfortunately I don't have any test equipment to do this. So I was thinking to have the authorized JBL tech come over to my place and do this for me.

Anyway, that's the story for now. I will keep you guys and gals updated...


Have you tried the old paper towel tube trick to see if the one tweeter is totally dead (one end close to the suspect tweeter, the other end up against your ear)? How about pink or white noise, that can really show a difference between speakers. There are smart phone apps that generate sine waves, white noise, pink noise etc. The one I use is called Signal Generator (for Android) by RadonSoft. Then all you need is a little 1/8th inch to RCA adaptor to get the signal from the phone to your preamp or receiver. It's just something you can try while you're waiting around for somebody to do something. It's much more likely that one UHF, is totally dead than it being weak. With the crossover being very high, 12,000 Hz, I would bet you have a blown or disconnected UHF driver on one side.

[Dave_72]

Have you tried the old paper towel tube trick to see if the one tweeter is totally dead (one end close to the suspect tweeter, the other end up against your ear)? How about pink or white noise, that can really show a difference between speakers. There are smart phone apps that generate sine waves, white noise, pink noise etc. The one I use is called Signal Generator (for Android) by RadonSoft. Then all you need is a little 1/8th inch to RCA adaptor to get the signal from the phone to your preamp or receiver. It's just something you can try while you're waiting around for somebody to do something. It's much more likely that one UHF, is totally dead than it being weak. With the crossover being very high, 12,000 Hz, I would bet you have a blown or disconnected UHF driver on one side.

Good advice there, thanks. No,I haven't done the paper towel tube trick, I will definitely do so. Yeah, I got this test cd from Stereophile magazine that has pink noise, test tones, etc. Thanks again, much appreciated!

[Dave_72]

I'll be Las Vegas this weekend. Want me to go over and kick his a$$? :moon:

Haha maybe...I'll let ya know! :D

[Dave_72]

Ok, I did the paper towel tube trick, and the test cd...everything came out negative. I feel like a real dope. So, the problem is with the right channel of my phono cartridge. Anyway, that's the scoop. I'm starting the break in process right now. Any suggestions to go about this? :D

[HCSGuy]

What not to do: Put on White noise, crank it up loud, and leave the room for a few hours (burned up a pair of SEAS tweeters that way once).

I have used Pink noise at a moderate level to do it. I played pink noise through one speaker at a level that was tolerable to be in the room with, but not stay (don't remember the db), and played it for 10hrs. Then I played the same through the other speaker for 20hrs and listened to them both. If they sounded different, I played the first one for another 20hrs, then leapfrogged them so that one always had 10hrs more use on it than the first. When I couldn't tell anymore, I considered them broken in, and they they did sound much better. It was around 50hrs that I could no longer tell the difference, but YMMV based on volume and the speaker.

[Dave_72]

Thanks for the recommendations! Much appreciated! :cool:

[edgewound]

Thanks for the recommendations! Much appreciated! :cool:

The best way to break-in the speakers is to simply listen to them. It takes far too long to go through some "protocol" to "break them in properly".

Play your favorite music through them and appreciate them as they settle in. At low to moderate levels, the only thing you'll notice that changes appreciably is the low frequency drivers as they tend to loosen up...and warm up.

Enjoy them without stressing out over so much tweakage. Your ears will probably change more on a daily basis than the speakers will anyway.

[BMWCCA]

The best way to break-in the speakers is to simply listen to them. It takes far too long to go through some "protocol" to "break them in properly".

:applaud:

[Dave_72]

The best way to break-in the speakers is to simply listen to them. It takes far too long to go through some "protocol" to "break them in properly".

Play your favorite music through them and appreciate them as they settle in. At low to moderate levels, the only thing you'll notice that changes appreciably is the low frequency drivers as they tend to loosen up...and warm up.

Enjoy them without stressing out over so much tweakage. Your ears will probably change more on a daily basis than the speakers will anyway.

Ok, sounds good. Thanks for your recommendation too...:cool:

[Dave_72]

Ok, here's an update...it turns out the turntable problem was a stylus getting unseated. With that solved, the one speaker, the same speaker that was on the right side and now on the left side, is still not putting out as much high frequencies as the other. Does anyone know how to crack into these and take the driver out? Or should I ship the whole damn speaker to the service center in So Cal?

[hjames]

Ok, here's an update...it turns out the turntable problem was a stylus getting unseated. With that solved, the one speaker, the same speaker that was on the right side and now on the left side, is still not putting out as much high frequencies as the other. Does anyone know how to crack into these and take the driver out? Or should I ship the whole damn speaker to the service center in So Cal?



:(

Good luck with that ...

They could dink with those things forever and they might just not get them quite right ...
Wow - it may never be fully matched with the other speaker.

If it were me, I'd ship them both back and get a refund.
Get out while you still can ...

[grumpy]

Has there been a mono test performed? same signal level, both speakers? then swap speakers
(ok to do by swapping leads at the back of amp or receiver) to make sure it's not an upstream issue...

Using a turntable as the source for this kind of test is ... sub-optimal.

[Dave_72]

Has there been a mono test performed? same signal level, both speakers? then swap speakers
(ok to do by swapping leads at the back of amp or receiver) to make sure it's not an upstream issue...

Using a turntable as the source for this kind of test is ... sub-optimal.

No, I need to do that. I did swap speakers, however. Ok, thanks.

[Dave_72]

:(

Good luck with that ...

They could dink with those things forever and they might just not get them quite right ...
Wow - it may never be fully matched with the other speaker.

If it were me, I'd ship them both back and get a refund.
Get out while you still can ...

That bad, huh? I figured all it needs is a tweeter swap.

Not a bad idea. Hmm...

[hjames]

That bad, huh? I figured all it needs is a tweeter swap.

Not a bad idea. Hmm...
I had a Harman AVR-7300 - top of the line 7x125w HT receiver ... very pricey electronics when new ...
Had a pair of older JBL 4341 Studio monitors - plus some other reasonable vintage speakers on side and rear surround channels.
At one point we found the receiver started turning itself up automatically.
The volume level would start jumping until it was Wide Open. That's very loud with fairly efficient speakers.
Even when you put it on mute it might drop out of mute and turn itself up until its Very scary loud.
Problem stopped all by itself after completely unsettling us.
Then one day, every feature suddenly appeared on the built in display panel and it completely froze.
Main processor chip was gone - nothing worked without it.

Local shop was unable to sort it out so Harman (Northridge) graciously offered to fix it.
Very kind of them, actually. Shipping was expensive, but they got it fixed and it sounded great again.
'Til it let go again 6 months after we got it back. Well past the warranty and courtesy period.

A darned shame, but its dead in the basement and I'll never hook it up again.

I truly think they mean well - but I don't think they can really get it together.
Its a shame, really - they were a spectacular company for so long.

[Dave_72]

I had a Harman AVR-7300 - top of the line 7x125w HT receiver ... very pricey electronics when new ...
Had a pair of older JBL 4341 Studio monitors - plus some other reasonable vintage speakers on side and rear surround channels.
At one point we found the receiver started turning itself up automatically.
The volume level would start jumping until it was Wide Open. That's very loud with fairly efficient speakers.
Even when you put it on mute it might drop out of mute and turn itself up until its Very scary loud.
Problem stopped all by itself after completely unsettling us.
Then one day, every feature suddenly appeared on the built in display panel and it completely froze.
Main processor chip was gone - nothing worked without it.

Local shop was unable to sort it out so Harman (Northridge) graciously offered to fix it.
Very kind of them, actually. Shipping was expensive, but they got it fixed and it sounded great again.
'Til it let go again 6 months after we got it back. Well past the warranty and courtesy period.

A darned shame, but its dead in the basement and I'll never hook it up again.

I truly think they mean well - but I don't think they can really get it together.
Its a shame, really - they were a spectacular company for so long.

Ok, I will take that into account. Thanks for that.

Anyway, here's the name and address of the official service place in So Cal.

George Meyer A/V
12418 Santa Monica Boulevard Los Angeles, CA 90025 (310) 820-1113
[email protected]
http://www.georgemeyer-av.com

Cool bunch of dudes? Or hacks?

[Mr. Widget]

I truly think they mean well - but I don't think they can really get it together.
Its a shame, really - they were a spectacular company for so long.A TOTL Harman AVR may be expensive, but it is still more like a JBL Consumer product than JBL Pro or part of the Harman Luxury Group... not to dump on Consumer, but they are just not the JBL we remember.



As for George Meyer, they are awesome... they handle the West Coast factory repairs for Mark Levinson and other brands and are absolutely top notch!


Widget

[4313B]

A TOTL Harman AVR may be expensive, but it is still more like a JBL Consumer product than JBL Pro or part of the Harman Luxury Group... not to dump on Consumer, but they are just not the JBL we remember.I wouldn't try and separate out the various channels. They're all pretty effed up. It's a pretty unhappy lot, except for the Sales folks who are hopped up on who knows what. http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/smilies/rotfl.gif
I truly think they mean well - but I don't think they can really get it together.
Its a shame, really - they were a spectacular company for so long.I like to think that Sidney held it together as long as he could.

I think there's alot of fascinating history there.

They pretty much peaked with the Citation XX. After that it was pretty much "How do we get Citation XX performance in something that is actually affordable because we want to sell a **** load of these things." I guess it didn't scale down too well. :rotfl:

[RedCoat23]

They pretty much peaked with the Citation XX. After that it was pretty much "How do we get Citation XX performance in something that is actually affordable because we want to sell a **** load of these things." I guess it didn't scale down too well. :rotfl:

And for those lucky folk with space in their Christmas stocking and a few (quite a few) spare quarters in their pocket...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Citation-XX-Stereo-Power-Amplifier-Near-Mint-Condition-in-Factory-Crate-Rare-/321043459988?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item4abfae6f94

No affiliation...just a quiet sigh of wishfullness :crying:

[4313B]

:rotfl: Well speak of the devil!

I'd love to hear that set hooked up to the Everests, K2's or 1400 Arrays.

We had that set driving a pair of 250Ti's for many years.

[jblnut]

I've been chasing those forever...got close a few times but never actually scored the set. Those look real nice, for sure. Unfortunately, for that money you're into a lot of other well respected high-end gear that's either new (or newer) and actually has parts available. I'd love to hear them sometime just to see what all the fuss is about, but that's quite unlikely.

I did however, get an audition setup for next week to hear some Array 1400's at what passes for a local dealer near me (meaning they mostly do HT installs and had to beg Harman to get a pair shipped in for me to hear). Can't wait !

jblnut

[4313B]

I've been chasing those forever...got close a few times but never actually scored the set. Those look real nice, for sure. Unfortunately, for that money you're into a lot of other well respected high-end gear that's either new (or newer) and actually has parts available.Well yeah, I'm sure Harman has thrown all the repair parts for them in the trash by now. :rotfl:
I'd love to hear them sometime just to see what all the fuss is about, but that's quite unlikely.I'd like to hear them again to see if they've stood the test of time.
I did however, get an audition setup for next week to hear some Array 1400's at what passes for a local dealer near me (meaning they mostly do HT installs and had to beg Harman to get a pair shipped in for me to hear). Can't wait !Us either! Give us your impressions when you have time. :)

[Dave_72]

A TOTL Harman AVR may be expensive, but it is still more like a JBL Consumer product than JBL Pro or part of the Harman Luxury Group... not to dump on Consumer, but they are just not the JBL we remember.



As for George Meyer, they are awesome... they handle the West Coast factory repairs for Mark Levinson and other brands and are absolutely top notch!


Widget

Cool, thanks a mil for your reply. That definitely puts me at ease.

Basically, there might not be anything wrong with the tweeter in this one speaker, but I need peace of mind you see.

As for the dealer? He sent this rambling long letter to Harman Luxury Group cust. service saying that I said this and that and blah blah blah, and there's nothing wrong with the speakers.

He has no tech. knowledge, does not have a tech department, no showroom, and no store front. He's in this little office with a little paper sign inside the glass door. He does not stock any equipment. Basically, to me, he's a hack order taker.

[audiomagnate]

The tweeter comes in really high, 12K on these speakers. Is one of the tweeters totally dead? If so, it's an easy enough fix. On speakers this new is very rare for the capacitor in series with the tweeter to go bad, but that can cause a reduction in output. If you got a great deal on them I certainly wouldn't give up on them. I'd love to have a pair. Fixing speakers is so easy even I can do it, and look at my avatar!

[Dave_72]

The tweeter comes in really high, 12K on these speakers. Is one of the tweeters totally dead? If so, it's an easy enough fix. On speakers this new is very rare for the capacitor in series with the tweeter to go bad, but that can cause a reduction in output. If you got a great deal on them I certainly wouldn't give up on them. I'd love to have a pair. Fixing speakers is so easy even I can do it, and look at my avatar!

No, the tweeter is not totally dead. What actually is happening is that the midrange is putting out more sound than the tweeter. Oh no, not giving up on them. I bet you would, lol.

[JeffW]

Man, get your source 100% sorted out. No need of chasing a signal if you're not 100% certain you have a reliable source, not a turntable. There is so much that can go wonky on the turntable string. Then swap speakers left to right in a methodical fashion. See if the defective tweet follows the swap.

You aren't running thru an AVR and have the channels set to balance out at a listening position or EQ or anything?

It'd be really great if you could play some test tones and measure the AC at the tweeter on both speakers, just to see if the signal from the crossover was constant on both sides with the same tone.

There's dang few components in a speaker that can be bad, it should be a simple task to narrow it down. If it's the speaker.

[Mr. Widget]

There's dang few components in a speaker that can be bad, it should be a simple task to narrow it down. If it's the speaker.Very true!

Carefully checking out your speakers is easier than packing and shipping them.

Widget

[Dave_72]

Man, get your source 100% sorted out. No need of chasing a signal if you're not 100% certain you have a reliable source, not a turntable. There is so much that can go wonky on the turntable string. Then swap speakers left to right in a methodical fashion. See if the defective tweet follows the swap.

You aren't running thru an AVR and have the channels set to balance out at a listening position or EQ or anything?

It'd be really great if you could play some test tones and measure the AC at the tweeter on both speakers, just to see if the signal from the crossover was constant on both sides with the same tone.

There's dang few components in a speaker that can be bad, it should be a simple task to narrow it down. If it's the speaker.

I tried cd too. The turntable is pretty neutral overall. It's a Technics 1210M5G with the top MM cartridge form Audio Technica. Plus, I didn't have this problem with the L890s. I did do that with the speakers. Same thing. No, no AVR. Just 2 channel amp and preamp. Oh ok, thanks for that.

[Dave_72]

Very true!

Carefully checking out your speakers is easier than packing and shipping them.

Widget

I agree.