4311b for Home Theatre???

[aaronz28]

HI,


i have a trio of JBL 4311b that i've just restored and am using them as the front 3 channels of my Home Theatre - i'm not convinced that the Denon 3808ci is doing them justice and/or not sure they are really at home in a H.T.
naturally, they sound great when listening to music DVDs, but i'm not sure they have the soundstage and response for a quality HT setup..

To confuse matters further,


I just bought a new Marantz blu-ray and will likley move the Denon3808 to another listening area and buy a Marantz reciever (i'm silly about having matching componants)


i'm wondering if the new Marantz 7007 will make em sing they should, or (since i am also in need of a set of Studio Monitors for my recording studio) - i could always put the JBLs there and get a dedicated and matched set of Home Theatre Speakers...


i know it sounds like a bunch of differrent avenues - but any thoughts as to what I should focus on?


I enjoy watching movies - i'm just not sure these JBLs are fast enough for movies.
If i do move the JBLs - any power amp recommendations for my studio setup?
help :D

[hjames]

Perhaps they just need more power?? What is the w/ch from your Denon?
You can always take the preamp out feed from your receiver for your front mains,
and run them on a dedicated poweramp ... something with more power, give them more headroom.
Chances are, you don't need as much power for the center as you do on the L & R front mains.

So - let the receiver run your sides and center. See if that gives you the snap and response you want for movies and TV.
What are you running for subwoofer(s)?

I have used JBL 4341s for mains for the longest time, then DCM time frames, and now Vandeersteen 2CEs ...
The key thing is to match the sound across the front tonally ... same drivers is best.


HI,


i have a trio of JBL 4311b that i've just restored and am using them as the front 3 channels of my Home Theatre - i'm not convinced that the Denon 3808ci is doing them justice and/or not sure they are really at home in a H.T.
naturally, they sound great when listening to music DVDs, but i'm not sure they have the soundstage and response for a quality HT setup..

To confuse matters further,


I just bought a new Marantz blu-ray and will likley move the Denon3808 to another listening area and buy a Marantz reciever (i'm silly about having matching componants)


i'm wondering if the new Marantz 7007 will make em sing they should, or (since i am also in need of a set of Studio Monitors for my recording studio) - i could always put the JBLs there and get a dedicated and matched set of Home Theatre Speakers...


i know it sounds like a bunch of different avenues - but any thoughts as to what I should focus on?


I enjoy watching movies - i'm just not sure these JBLs are fast enough for movies.
If i do move the JBLs - any power amp recommendations for my studio setup?
help :D

[4313B]

The key thing is to match the sound across the front tonally ... same drivers is best.Agreed.

I've come to the conclusion that one is best with three of the same across the front. For example, if one has to run a D'Appolito configured center channel then it is probably best to use them for left and right too. That's been my experience.

[Mr. Widget]

I enjoy watching movies - i'm just not sure these JBLs are fast enough for movies.
Are you using a sub(s)? How large is your room? What is your point of reference? i.e. just how serious a HT are you trying to accomplish? The 4311Bs are better speakers/HT speakers than 99% of what you'd find at a Best Buy, but not better than the best that Magnolia has to offer... and certainly not as good as many of the DIY solutions many here have put together.

Yes, a high quality amp will help... I'd use a moderately priced AVR with line outs and proper power amps for the LCR speakers, I would do this whether you are using the 4311Bs or any other speaker if you want a reasonable facsimile of high performance.


Widget

[aaronz28]

Hi, thanks for the responses.
my sub is a polk audio 8"
nothing special but soon to be upgraded.

my theatre is about 8.5' by 20'
its a dedicated room in my basement.

as for a good AVR, ive been running a Denon 3808ci that im not really thrilled with.
my older denon was far nicer but it didnt pass 1080p. I think it was a 4602 or 4206 cant remember but it was heavy sucker and sounded much betteer to me.

im looking at gettin the Marantz SR7007 and put the Denon somewhere else or sell it all together.

im certainly willing to try amping the 4311s with sonething other than thr Marantz- suggestions on how much juice they should have?

As for replacing the speakers, the ones im considering are either the Sunfire Theatre stuff (ribbon drivers) or something like the B&W from Magnolia- although i wouldnt be opposed to a DIY provided i could buy something where the cabinetry was
Finished.

cheers

[Mr. Widget]

Hi, thanks for the responses.
my sub is a polk audio 8"
nothing special but soon to be upgraded.

my theatre is about 8.5' by 20'
its a dedicated room in my basement.

as for a good AVR, ive been running a Denon 3808ci that im not really thrilled with.
my older denon was far nicer but it didnt pass 1080p. I think it was a 4602 or 4206 cant remember but it was heavy sucker and sounded much betteer to me.

im looking at gettin the Marantz SR7007 and put the Denon somewhere else or sell it all together.

im certainly willing to try amping the 4311s with sonething other than thr Marantz- suggestions on how much juice they should have?

As for replacing the speakers, the ones im considering are either the Sunfire Theatre stuff (ribbon drivers) or something like the B&W from Magnolia- although i wouldnt be opposed to a DIY provided i could buy something where the cabinetry was
Finished.

cheersI just did a search for the Denon 3808ci and the Marantz SR7007... they are both fairly expensive. I would most certainly not buy either. A $1000 Anthem MRX 300 will sound better, and it has the Anthem Room Correction -ARC is pretty damned good. I would go with the Anthem for surround channels and a three channel amp or three mono blocks or a couple of old Adcom amps or... whatever for the front three channels. Three channels of quality amplification will go a long way... and realize, the center is actually more important than the L & R fronts in most soundtrack info.

Definitely get a better sub.

I would do the above first... the 4311B speakers are not the last word in speakers, but they are quite competent... with correct placement a bit of ARC, I think you should be pretty happy. If the sound still doesn't satisfy, then I would consider the JBL LS series or better yet the JBL Array Series loudspeakers. The new Revel Perorma3 series that will be available in Dec.-Jan. is also very, very good.


Widget

[aaronz28]

Thanks Widget - i'll be looking into the Anthem.

I did just buy a Marantz UD 7006 player - so i might wind up having to return that - i'm sorta picky about having matched components.

Thanks

Aaron

[BMWCCA]

I did just buy a Marantz UD 7006 player - so i might wind up having to return that - i'm sorta picky about having matched components.You might be asking for advice from the wrong web-site. ;)

[hjames]

You might be asking for advice from the wrong web-site. ;)

So, which Home theater system are you using again BMWCCA?

is it 5.1 or 7.1?

[hjames]

To consider the sound issues in this space, consider the space ...

I don't think its the Denons fault, tho it may be partly the 4311b's fault ...

56936

[aaronz28]

To consider the sound issues in this space, consider the space ...

I don't think its the Denons fault, tho it may be partly the 4311b's fault ...

56936

could also be the Soveriegn's fault LOL - although lowering the 4311b some might help, they aren't going to get any closer to the wall, or further away from the side walls.

[hjames]

c- although lowering the 4311b some might help, they aren't going to get any closer to the wall, or further away from the side walls.
Then you probably want a speaker that plays fine flat against the corners ...
or put some tapestries against those side walls to minimize their effect!

Some room conditioning would make a good difference in such a room ...
maybe more than just swapping electronics or speakers.

On - that receiver Mr Widget showed -
Anthem, with the ARC system - maybe that would help!

[Mr. Widget]

On - that receiver Mr Widget showed -
Anthem, with the ARC system - maybe that would help! :yes:


Widget

[aaronz28]

:yes:


Widget

the only problelm I see with that Anthem is lack of HDMI inputs - it has 4 - I have 6 things that i have connected with HDMI -

Blu-Ray, Cable, PS3, Xbox, Apple TV, and my Imac

is a switch really a good thing to put in the signal chain of a high end system?

Cheers

A

[speakerdave]

the only problelm I see with that Anthem is lack of HDMI inputs - it has 4 - I have 6 things that i have connected with HDMI -

Blu-Ray, Cable, PS3, Xbox, Apple TV, and my Imac

is a switch really a good thing to put in the signal chain of a high end system?

Cheers

A

I looked into this question a few years ago. The answer then was, "No, not a passive one." If you get an active one, of the kind they use in stores for displays, then it will be good, but not cheap. If you want I can get you the name of the company.

[hjames]

Have you really found receivers/pre-processors with 6 or more HDMI ports?
I think 4 or less is pretty standard

MonoPrice sells external remote control powered HDMI switches -
I used one of those myself before I got an HDMI switching receiver ...

Just put the 3 least used HDMI sources on an external switch,
and the more commonly used things can be hooked directly to the receiver.


the only problem I see with that Anthem is lack of HDMI inputs - it has 4 - I have 6 things that i have connected with HDMI -

Blu-Ray, Cable, PS3, Xbox, Apple TV, and my Imac

is a switch really a good thing to put in the signal chain of a high end system?

Cheers

A

[aaronz28]

i suppose a powered switch will work..

can i ask - why the ARC as opposed to Audyssey XT32 - this seems to be a hotly debated topic.

I have pretty much made up my mind that i'll be either selling or recycling the 4311b to another system.

that being the case - i'm gonna wipe the slate clean - and buy the best that will make my room work.

giving the fact that i really have no options for moving the big JBLs that my 4311b sit on, what should I be looking at?

the Audiokarma forum has led me to consider the JBL 6332 across the front - but i'm probably still going to be underpowered with any reciever - not that i listen to stuff that loud - i just don't want to waste a great speaker by underpowering it with a receiver.

what other options, JBL or other, shoudl I consider?

Thanks all

[BMWCCA]

So, which Home theater system are you using again BMWCCA?

is it 5.1 or 7.1?

You know me, I'm 2.0. Believe me, 4345s in my room is surround-sound enough for anyone!

My comment about asking advice from the wrong website was aimed at the OP's predilection for components matched by brand name. That's a straight-jacket most here have overcome, especially the Señorita. It was not my intention to denigrate the advice he's getting here! :thmbsup:

[hjames]

I'm running an Integra Preamp with external power amps - and Vandersteen speakers these days -
but - they wouldn't work in your space. they need space to the sides and rear - but thats another thread.

Frankly Why aren't you integrating the Sovreigns into your theater system?
Since you already own them - why not look for a center to match your Sovreigns, and just sell off the 4311bs?

When I had JBL Studio Monitors I was trying to match their sound across the front.
Maybe for you a nice vintage 2 way would do for use in the center -
The center is primarily dialog and doesn't have to go as low, bass-wise as the L&R mains do ...






i suppose a powered switch will work..

can i ask - why the ARC as opposed to Audyssey XT32 - this seems to be a hotly debated topic.

I have pretty much made up my mind that i'll be either selling or recycling the 4311b to another system.

that being the case - i'm gonna wipe the slate clean - and buy the best that will make my room work.

giving the fact that i really have no options for moving the big JBLs that my 4311b sit on, what should I be looking at?

the Audiokarma forum has led me to consider the JBL 6332 across the front - but i'm probably still going to be underpowered with any reciever - not that i listen to stuff that loud - i just don't want to waste a great speaker by underpowering it with a receiver.

what other options, JBL or other, shoudl I consider?

Thanks all

[aaronz28]

I have the soveriegns setup with a Mac C11, Mr67, a rane 2ch active xover, crown 200wpc on the woofers and and two restored IPC Am1026 tube amps on the mid/tweeters.

i had them integrated into the HT for a while but decided to go back to 2.0 for vinyl listening.
i have twin Thorens td135s for them :)

whats the take on Emotiva products?

[Mr. Widget]

i suppose a powered switch will work..

can i ask - why the ARC as opposed to Audyssey XT32 - this seems to be a hotly debated topic.

I have pretty much made up my mind that i'll be either selling or recycling the 4311b to another system.

that being the case - i'm gonna wipe the slate clean - and buy the best that will make my room work.

giving the fact that i really have no options for moving the big JBLs that my 4311b sit on, what should I be looking at?

the Audiokarma forum has led me to consider the JBL 6332 across the front - but i'm probably still going to be underpowered with any reciever - not that i listen to stuff that loud - i just don't want to waste a great speaker by underpowering it with a receiver.

what other options, JBL or other, shoudl I consider?

Thanks allWell... Audyssey vs. ARC? To get the most from Audyssey, you need to use MultEQ Pro which allows much more control and a calibrated mic. The mic kit is about $300 and must be used with a license key from Audyssey which costs $150. You must also run special calibration software on a PC... or a Mac running Windows. ARC also requires a calibrated mic kit and software on a PC, but there is no license fee and the mic and software kit comes with the AVR included even at the $999 price!!!

Which sounds better? According to several engineers who I really respect who have independently run careful objective comparisons, the ARC system is more effective in taming room issues. Beyond that, I think the basic Anthem AVR sound is a bit better than the Integras, Denons, etc... I personally own a couple of Integras and am on the fence about switching over, but if I was going to buy one today, it would certainly be the Anthem... is it perfect? Far from it, but in the $1000 price range I think the MRX300 is the hands down winner.

Back to this thread.

Why not sell off your surplus gear, buy the Anthem, and scrounge up a few good channels of amplification for the front channels and see how your 4311Bs hold up... you can always upgrade them after that. I probably would, but I would get the Anthem first, amps second, and speakers third.


Widget

[hjames]

I have the soveriegns setup with a Mac C11, Mr67, a rane 2ch active xover, crown 200wpc on the woofers and and two restored IPC Am1026 tube amps on the mid/tweeters.

i had them integrated into the HT for a while but decided to go back to 2.0 for vinyl listening.
i have twin Thorens td135s for them :)

whats the take on Emotiva products?

I had the Emotiva UMC-1 HT preamp on a 30 day trial and shipped it back earlier -
the software was a complete mess ... HDMI just didn't hold together properly.
I've heard their amps are nice, but have no first hand experience with that!

[aaronz28]

Well... Audyssey vs. ARC? To get the most from Audyssey, you need to use MultEQ Pro which allows much more control and a calibrated mic. The mic kit is about $300 and must be used with a license key from Audyssey which costs $150. You must also run special calibration software on a PC... or a Mac running Windows. ARC also requires a calibrated mic kit and software on a PC, but there is no license fee and the mic and software kit comes with the AVR included even at the $999 price!!!

Which sounds better? According to several engineers who I really respect who have independently run careful objective comparisons, the ARC system is more effective in taming room issues. Beyond that, I think the basic Anthem AVR sound is a bit better than the Integras, Denons, etc... I personally own a couple of Integras and am on the fence about switching over, but if I was going to buy one today, it would certainly be the Anthem... is it perfect? Far from it, but in the $1000 price range I think the MRX300 is the hands down winner.

Back to this thread.

Why not sell off your surplus gear, buy the Anthem, and scrounge up a few good channels of amplification for the front channels and see how your 4311Bs hold up... you can always upgrade them after that. I probably would, but I would get the Anthem first, amps second, and speakers third.


Widget

thanks -

as for now - i've decided to move my 4311b to my Studio and use as they were intended - powering them will be a 1998 Classe CAP80 its 80wpc but high current - and should be enough (I hope) to give me honest monitoring of my choral/orchestra/rock'n roll recording.

Out of curiosity - if i hang them overhead in typical studio fashion - should I still consider upgrading the crossover and plugging the port? If so - what would y'all suggest I do for the crossover? I have new l-pads and new caps to restore them as original, but i seem to recall reading that there are "better options" for the crossover?

Thanks

Aaron

[hjames]

thanks -

as for now - i've decided to move my 4311b to my Studio and use as they were intended - powering them will be a 1998 Classe CAP80 its 80wpc but high current - and should be enough (I hope) to give me honest monitoring of my choral/orchestra/rock'n roll recording.

Out of curiosity - if i hang them overhead in typical studio fashion - should I still consider upgrading the crossover and plugging the port? If so - what would y'all suggest I do for the crossover? I have new l-pads and new caps to restore them as original, but i seem to recall reading that there are "better options" for the crossover?

Thanks

Aaron

The real Q is - do you want a real mixing studio setup,
or do you want a way to use those speakers with your gear?

4311bs are not known for being accurate ... fun, but not accurate.

[Mr. Widget]

The real Q is - do you want a real mixing studio setup,
or do you want a way to use those speakers with your gear?

4311bs are not known for being accurate ... fun, but not accurate.I agree completely.

I'd buy much newer JBL, Genelec, Meyer Sound, or ??? for a studio. You really don't want a speaker as colored as the 4311B. It was long in the tooth by the time it was introduced. The science of sound has moved forward significantly since then.


Widget

[aaronz28]

I agree completely.

I'd buy much newer JBL, Genelec, Meyer Sound, or ??? for a studio. You really don't want a speaker as colored as the 4311B. It was long in the tooth by the time it was introduced. The science of sound has moved forward significantly since then.


Widget

well then - there will be a mint set of 4311b's with rebuilt lpads/crossovers up on ebay in about 2-3 days LOL

Cheers

[Mr. Widget]

What I don't understand is why you don't want to give them a try in your HT? They aren't a perfect speaker, far from it, but then no speaker is perfect. With careful DSP help from an Anthem, many of their vagaries and those of your room can be minimized or even eliminated.


Widget

[aaronz28]

What I don't understand is why you don't want to give them a try in your HT? They aren't a perfect speaker, far from it, but then no speaker is perfect. With careful DSP help from an Anthem, many of their vagaries and those of your room can be minimized or even eliminated.


Widget

well, i just nabbed an mrx500 on ebay, so ill give em a try.
But i think something weird is going on with my center though.

yesterday (just to test) i tried 2 different movies- 1) StarWars IV and Cream's Reunion from Royal Albert.
Both showed muddy and very hard to hear center ch info, but as soon as i go to PureDirect or 2ch of some sort, the dialogue or Lead vocalist jump right out into the room.
when i redid the audyssey calibration, the speaker clearly is working, and i get no warnings of phasing problems... So im stumped.

ill take your word that the ARC will do a better job, but i find it hard to believe that audyssey is making things worse. When i check the levels (post calibration) it senses distance accurately, and has the R/C/L volumes a-5/-5/-7 respectively and sets them all to "Large" So it seems to be recognixing things correctly.

ill try again today toggling the Audyssey on/off to see just what is happening, and maybe even swap the center and one of the sides and recalibrate just to see.
Cheers

[aaronz28]

well well well -
I got my MRX500 installed today - and even without running the Anthem Room Correction software - its a HUGE difference/improvement over the Denon 3808ci.

i'm not sure if something is amiss in my 3808 but my two test DVDs - which aren't really all that scientific - just two that i know REALLY well....
1) Cream reunion live at Royal Albert - and 2) Starwars ANH

previously, the main voice always seemed muffled and in the background - now its very clear and upfront - i had thought that perhaps when I rebuilt the crossover in my center 4311 that perhaps i reversed some polarity that was causing issue - but i'm happy to say that is gone.


tonight, i'll try running the ARC and see how that improves - i'm still considering upgrading the crossovers in the 4311b but honestly not sure i really need to -

i'll give some more listening tonight :D

Cheers and thanks

Aaron

[Mr. Widget]

i'm not sure if something is amiss in my 3808 but...Probably not... the Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Integra, etc. AVRs, are all OK, but they are just not as good as the Anthem AVRs. If you use the ARC system carefully, I think you will really be pleased.


Widget

[aaronz28]

Probably not... the Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Integra, etc. AVRs, are all OK, but they are just not as good as the Anthem AVRs. If you use the ARC system carefully, I think you will really be pleased.


Widget

i think something was getting confused, probably in the audio presets - or something.

i don't fully understand all the various presets (Neo, PLiix, etc.) so there could have been some user-error gong on - but even still, its a 1000% more enjoyable to watch - you can actually hear the dialoge now without issue

[hjames]

Probably not... the Denon, Marantz, Yamaha, Integra, etc. AVRs, are all OK, but they are just not as good as the Anthem AVRs. If you use the ARC system carefully, I think you will really be pleased.


Widget

So its a worthy upgrade from my Integra DTC-9.8 pre/pro??

That was a good upgrade from the dead HK 7300-AVR :D

[Mr. Widget]

So its a worthy upgrade from my Integra DTC-9.8 pre/pro??

That was a good upgrade from the dead HK 7300-AVR :DIt depends on how critical a listener you are. I have an Integra DTC 9.8... I am deciding if I want to make the change. I know it will be an upgrade, but I am not as choosy with my surround system... if I have an extra grand to throw at something, I tend to put it into my 2 channel system.


Widget

[hjames]

It depends on how critical a listener you are. I have an Integra DTC 9.8... I am deciding if I want to make the change. I know it will be an upgrade, but I am not as choosy with my surround system... if I have an extra grand to throw at something, I tend to put it into my 2 channel system.

Widget

I know what you are saying ...
I've kind of hit a comfortable point upstairs with the high power tubes and the L200 3-ways
so the dinkable system would be the HT system downstairs.