My DIY Altec 828

[Ear4life]

Hello everyone!
Then the time came for me to sign up!:bouncy: Just wrote a good presentation of my DIY speakers, and then the whole went white on this webpage... :crying: So you will only get the shorter one now:( (autosave does NOT work). I have come across this site many times when searching for old speaker constructions, and I must say, you guys love old speaker stuff! And I´m totally with you!! :D This spring I finished my Altec 828 project. I have bin around full range speakers for some years, and I have had a great experience with my latest Fostex FX200 project. I wanted to bring the system closer to the stage in musical expression, and have heard good and bad things about Altec horns. I wanted to give it a shoot to see what I could bring to the surface. I´ve always loved the look of the horns, and the discipline of designing good ones. This is mys first horn project, and it brings a lot of joy. I started out with buying some old 416-16z, then the idea of horn appeared, and why not try out a high sensitivity system. So this spring I finished the 828 cabs.

Enjoy:

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Speakerunits in the system at the moment: JBL 2226H, Radian PB850-16 in 2380a horn, crossed at 800 Hz, 1. order

This is a system that will stay! It is a step in the right direction! even thou I´m only about 10% done

Looking forward to hear from you! :bouncy:

Best
Martin

[Alien_Shore]

Looks nice!
having no Altec drivers is a bit disappointing (coming from this Altec fan), but a fine looking horn, nonetheless.
I am curious as to how you arrived at your choices in drivers, particularly the Radian (versus say the d4400ti or EV DH1A), and even how you decided on 2" vs a small format drivers. Also, are you using passive XOs, or running active?

[Ear4life]

Hello alien shore :)

so sorry for not having Altec drivers in the system for the moment :o: I use to have the 416 playing the bass part, along with a JBL 2445j for the hf. It sounded very good! Except of codes the limitations in tweeter area. Then a good offer came up on a set of old JBL parts. A pair of 2226 that needed a reconing. So I bought the parts, and did it. That brought a very different tone to the system! The Altecs liked the lower midrange better than JBLs, but JBL had much more energy in the low end. It is all about taste, but after listening to the 2226 I found the 416's a little to clinic in the lows. The bass was there with the same extension in the low frequency response but without the "soul" and attack I desire. In the end I decided to sell the Altecs. It is okay to throw tomatoes at me :eek: . So... Have I found the final bass driver? NO! But it is totally okay for now! :) .
The thing I enjoy when listening to my old 2445 is its ability to do the 500-2000 Hz area. It has much more "body" and power than my Radian down there. The reason why I am using the Radian is its overall nice harmonic sound. I have no supertweeter for now, and just a basic crossover. For The moment I am making some bigger hf horns, and working on soon been able to cross it around 400 Hz, 4 order. To save the 2226 from doing lower mid area.

Any good ideas? :bouncy:

best
Martin

[Ear4life]

Just found some more pictures. :)

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The annoying thing was that I had to put them together inside the house because it was winter (I could not wait for the spring to come :p) They took up a big amount of space cause I had to flip them many times and only had a little room to do it in. The final work and sanding was made when spring came.

I assume other people from this forum also have A5, A7 at there homes based on the pictures in here??
Has any of you tried to fill the inside of the wave guides with sand? I received a hint with that idea. It should have some positive effects in the midrange i´ve heard...?

Best
Martin

[Lee in Montreal]

Thanks for sharing. I love what you did for the port(s). I am sure that with the proper woofer you get great bass reflex sound, plus that midrange. Congratulations. BTW To which frequency is the BR tuned?

[Ear4life]

Thanks for replying!

You are right, the right woofer is needed. The port tuning with 2226 is about 28-30 Hz. Thats also close to the Altec 416 I had. That tuning is to deep! both woofers are only low woofers, not sub woofers. I just haven´t done any thing to the ports yet, they length is standard 8-9". I have not ended the search for the right woofer yet and it is difficult to cut the reflex port longer :D

I´m looking for a woofer with high sensitivity and good extension in the 300 Liter Altec 828 cab. A woofer that don´t loose sensitivity below 100Hz when tuned to around 30Hz. The TAD 1601b does the job on paper... but... the price...

Best
Martin

[Ear4life]

And here are some measurements:

First the two 2226 units in the cab. Microphone is 15" from the woofer

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Then the two 2226 in cab. Microphone in listening position pointing in the direction of the cabs. (no EQ added)

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The two 2226 with the Radian drivers in 2380a horns crossed at 500 Hz 4. orden (a little EQ added in the the bass, no EQ from 150 Hz and up) Note: The output between 20 and 30hz are included noise from the soundcard. These are older measurements, I do them with a interface now, and the measurements are "cleaner" now.

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More pics to come.

Best
Martin

[Alien_Shore]

Fantastic work, Martin. :applaud:
The construction pics give a much better appreciation for the hard work you've put in. I'm sure these sound great - the graphs look good. Are you using gated measurements?

[Ear4life]

Hello Mr. Alien

Thanks for the nice words :D I enjoy woodwork in general, and have always some thing on my mind that I wan´a build! Probably some of you diy people can recognize this :hmm:

So.. gated measurements, do you think of the position of the mic according to standards? I have mostly measured in my listening position (about 3 meter to the speakers) mic. pointing towards the speaker measured, to include the room gain. But also a lot of close ones when I had to find the right crossover components. A good balance between your ears and measurements are needed to find the right harmonic cross area.
I´m using Holm Acoustics software, Behringer EMC 8000 Mic. and Tascam US-144mkII interface.

Best
Martin

[loach71]

Hello Mr. Alien

Thanks for the nice words :D I enjoy woodwork in general, and have always some thing on my mind that I wan´a build! Probably some of you diy people can recognize this :hmm:

So.. gated measurements, do you think of the position of the mic according to standards? I have mostly measured in my listening position (about 3 meter to the speakers) mic. pointing towards the speaker measured, to include the room gain. But also a lot of close ones when I had to find the right crossover components. A good balance between your ears and measurements are needed to find the right harmonic cross area.
I´m using Holm Acoustics software, Behringer EMC 8000 Mic. and Tascam US-144mkII interface.

Best
Martin

Martin:

A very nice job, indeed! I see you are doing some EQ and speaker testing. I use the same setup as you, but have tried another freeware program in addition to the Holm Acoustics software. The other package is called Room EQ Wizard (REW). It is available for download on the following site:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/roomeq/

It is a very nice package AND it is free just like the Holm package. It works very well with the Behringer EMC 8000 Mic. and Tascam US-144mkII interface -- that's what I use!


Tim

[Ear4life]

Hey Tim

Thanks for the comments, on my project! And the REW software you are referring to looks VERY good! I think I have to download, and try it out :) It seems to be a bigger package of opportunities. Nice!
Thanks

Martin

[sbjacob]

Hey Tim

Thanks for the comments, on my project! And the REW software you are referring to looks VERY good! I think I have to download, and try it out :) It seems to be a bigger package of opportunities. Nice!
Thanks

Martin
Thank you very much for posting this info .

[eso]

Has any of you tried to fill the inside of the wave guides with sand? I received a hint with that idea. It should have some positive effects in the midrange i´ve heard...?


Extensive bracing added to the inside of the cabinet really helps to tighten up the bottom end, and properly damping the horn flares with improve the midbass clarity. I did both of those plus adjusting the vent size on my cabinets.

Read this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Audio/smallVOT.pdf
(The link should just give you a download prompt)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Shop/ShopI.jpg

Be aware that sand filling the flares adds a great deal of weight. I think i used about 150lbs of sand in each cabinet.

eso

[Ear4life]

Hey eso!

Nice workshop, and A5´s you have there :applaud:Thanks for the link! Just what I needed, It´s good to know the VOTT history!

How have you done your extensive bracing? a picture maybe?? :) I have thought of improving my cabs in that direction when time comes.

I´m posting pics soon of my new HF horn project!

Best
Martin

[NickH]

ESO, what are the dimension of your vents? Im just starting to read up on changing the vent configuration. What driver are you using in those too? 416 or 515?

Thanks
Nick



Extensive bracing added to the inside of the cabinet really helps to tighten up the bottom end, and properly damping the horn flares with improve the midbass clarity. I did both of those plus adjusting the vent size on my cabinets.

Read this:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Audio/smallVOT.pdf
(The link should just give you a download prompt)

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/4500648/Shop/ShopI.jpg

Be aware that sand filling the flares adds a great deal of weight. I think i used about 150lbs of sand in each cabinet.

eso

[Ear4life]

Hello guys..

Okay, so the last days has gone with some working on the new sets of horns I shortly talked about.
It takes long time to make them! Longer that I thought it would, but the light in the end of the tunnel is shining :bouncy:
To give you some idea of what I´m doing....

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I´m happy with the result of the hard work, but there is a long way before they are singing... so have to find the time for me to finish. I´m going back to school Monday so I have finish it up during weekends if possible :(. Can´t wait!

Best regards
Martin

[spkrman57]

I wish I had woodworking skills to do that kind of work.

Especially since I'm a die-hard wood horn fanatic!

Regards, Ron

[NickH]

Nice work.

[eso]

ESO, what are the dimension of your vents? Im just starting to read up on changing the vent configuration. What driver are you using in those too? 416 or 515?

Thanks
Nick

I'm not sure the dimensions. I did these over 10 years ago. I believe I sized them to 100 Sq. In. This is an A5 system: 515b, 288b, 1005A (tar-filled). The way I've current got them configured in my shop I'm using some Electro Voice electronic crossovers with Sonic Impact Super-T amps to bi amp them and I use my laptop, phone or iPod as the front end. Not really a hifi setup, but It's great in the shop.


eso

[Ear4life]

I wish I had woodworking skills to do that kind of work.

Especially since I'm a die-hard wood horn fanatic!

Regards, Ron

Thanks guys! I can tell you, when I started using wood tools I made a lot of "ups, -from the top again" mistakes :blink:. Everybody does that! Then patience comes in handy also! And I slowly became a little better. :) In other words, there are hope for you spkman! :D

Last night I had a "enjoy you stereo" moment. I am amazed how loud the Altec´s can play with only 4 watt/channel! Normally I´m not a person who likes to play too loud, but something happens when the cones start to move. A lovely 3D perspective, even down in the upper bass area, and the dynamic contrast makes you wana ROCK! :rockon1:
Everything in between Norah Jones, and Nightwish is beautiful!

Have a nice weekend!

Best regards
Martin

[JoshK]

Would love to see an update of where this ended up! Looking at possibly have Altec 828s built, or some modification of such. I am only looking for 60-800hz response.

[Ear4life]

Hello agen!

Well this project has not moved so mush this winter as hoped. Mostly because of the school/homework. Now I´m enjoying the Christmastime with the family! by the way: MERRY CHRISTMAS!!! :bouncy:
Thinking about and counting on using some hours in the garage to come further in the horn project during the coming Christmas days... Status for the moment is the same as last:

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Another major issue are the fact that the system is actually playing pretty nicely, and those new horns are "only" an upgrade. I would probably have found the time to be done by now if I didn´t have any horn to begin with.... :nopity:

Best regards
Martin

[JoshK]

I hear you. My own projects move at a similar pace. Still nice work!