... Teenagers and College Students May Prefer Accurate Sound Reproduction

[Hoerninger]

AES Budapest 2012

Some New Evidence that Teenagers and College Students May Prefer Accurate Sound Reproduction
—Sean Olive, Harman International Industries Inc. - Northridge, CA, USA

A group of 18 high school and 40 college students with different expertise in sound evaluation participated in two separate controlled listening tests that measured their preference choices between music reproduced in (1) MP3 (128 kbp/s) and lossless CD-quality file formats, and (2) music reproduced through four different consumer loudspeakers. As a group, the students preferred the CD-quality reproduction in 70% of the trials and preferred music reproduced through the most accurate, neutral loudspeaker. Critical listening experience was a significant factor in the listeners’ performance and preferences. Together, these tests provide some new evidence that both teenagers and college students can discern and appreciate a better quality of reproduced sound when given the opportunity to directly compare it against lower quality options.

Convention Paper 8683

Look and listen:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VLJQUZxvRvk

or for convinience as PDF:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/16343460/New%20Evidence%20that%20High%20School%20and%20Coll ege%20Students%20May%20Prefer%20Accurate%20Sound%2 0Reproduction.key.pdf

____________
Peter

[Sundown]

I've heard about this before (on a podcast I believe) and its an interesting study. I'm not old (33) but I hope my and younger generations keep this "hobby" alive. It'd be intersting if a group would do a study on younger listeners hearing loss. Most of these younger folk use earbuds at extreme levels. I bet a lot of them have the same hearing of a 40yr old haha

[Mr. Widget]

I've heard about this before (on a podcast I believe) and its an interesting study. I'm not old (33) but I hope my and younger generations keep this "hobby" alive. It'd be intersting if a group would do a study on younger listeners hearing loss. Most of these younger folk use earbuds at extreme levels. I bet a lot of them have the same hearing of a 40yr old haha...and a 40 year old has old ears? ;)


Widget

[Sundown]

...and a 40 year old has old ears? ;)


Widget

HA!

[yggdrasil]

...and a 60 year old has no ears! Beware Widget, eventually you will only be experiencing an illusion. :dont-know:

[Titanium Dome]

...and a 60 year old has no ears! Beware Widget, eventually you will only be experiencing an illusion. :dont-know:

It would be difficult to place a percentage on it, but most hi-fi enthusiasts are living an illusion anyway. In fact, to be precise, the entire home music reproduction experience is an attempt to create as convincing an illusion as possible. We have the science and technology to do a compelling job of that, as evidenced by all the hyperbole thrown about when someone describes the in home musical experience:

"I was transported..."

"It was as if a veil were lifted..."

"The sense of rarified air and atmosphere..."

"Diana Krall was breathing in my ear..."

"It was as though a drop of sweat flew from Jeff Beck's dripping face..."

The rapture only gets worse from there. So much of it is self-induced and delusional.

No one is more easily deluded than I. That's why I like to have so many different systems around. I clearly can hear differences from system to system, yet in isolation, I can enjoy them all, without having the pang of "Oh, I wish I had..." instead of what I've got.

When someone announces that he or she has found "The perfect system. My search is over," I interpret that as someone's preferences, prejudices, and experience finally finding the perfect illusion. It seems right to them, at least until the next revelatory experience.

As for teenagers and college students, to assume that as a generation they will all stick to lossy tracks and earbuds is to be ignorant about them and clueless about one's own generation. There were plenty of people in my generation who listened to crappy little AM transistor radios with a single earpiece, and in my kids' generation who carried around WalkMan cassette players with crappy stereo headphones, and now in my grandson's generation who carry iPods and ear buds. And in each of those generations, the sound quality, technology, and accessibility all improved. So, IMO, things are better now than ever, and the step up for my kids and my grandkid is much smaller than the step up I had to take to get to quality sound.

[louped garouv]

So, IMO, things are better now than ever, and the step up for my kids and my grandkid is much smaller than the step up I had to take to get to quality sound.

i'd have to agree...

even the local dubstep kids have systems that are capable of re-producing the distortion-laden tracks that they (dubstep audiences) all seem to love so much -- with amazing clarity..... :)

[Ducatista47]

"I was transported..."

"It was as if a veil were lifted..."

"The sense of rarified air and atmosphere..."

"Diana Krall was breathing in my ear..."

"It was as though a drop of sweat flew from Jeff Beck's dripping face..."

The rapture only gets worse from there. So much of it is self-induced and delusional.

No one is more easily deluded than I. That's why I like to have so many different systems around. I clearly can hear differences from system to system, yet in isolation, I can enjoy them all, without having the pang of "Oh, I wish I had..." instead of what I've got.

When someone announces that he or she has found "The perfect system. My search is over," I interpret that as someone's preferences, prejudices, and experience finally finding the perfect illusion. It seems right to them, at least until the next revelatory experience.

Over at a site like Head-fi, which is really full of guff, the lifted veils and revelatory improvements are usually about tweaks, like burning in cables, a ruinously expensive NOS tube or isolation feet. At least I can get behind someone who hears a new rig and likes it a lot more than what they have heard before. Me, I like it when it makes me happy. I have so far escaped the mania for the ultimate. I must be doing OK. I am very happy.

The one experience I would like is Diana Krall breathing in my ear, but that would be in person and would have nothing to do with music reproduction. Hopefully it would lead to something that looks a lot like an attempt at reproduction.

[JBLAddict]

Hopefully it would lead to something that looks a lot like an attempt at reproduction.

that is absolutely brilliant, well done!

[Robh3606]

That's why I like to have so many different systems around. I clearly can hear differences from system to system, yet in isolation, I can enjoy them all, without having the pang of "Oh, I wish I had..." instead of what I've got.



I agree completely on that point. It sure is nice being able to swap things out or just go upstairs for a change of pace.

Rob:)

[Ducatista47]

that is absolutely brilliant, well done!

While totally unintended, when read in that light notice how Robb's comment fits right in.

[grumpy]

That point was not lost to all ;)

[Amnes]

Very true. I'm the most devoted sound reproduction geek among my friends and everyone always compliments my systems either verbally or with subtle phisycal cues such as jawdropping, drooling or STFU for a elongated period of time. 128kbps mp3's are really disgusting sounding on quality hifi but most of todays electronic music does not benefit from being stored in hi res formats due to being poorly produced on shitty monitors by occupation deafend dj/producers right from the begining, making 320kbps mp3 good enough for most of the low dynamic range overcompressed, clipped and distorted stuff. As bad as most of such music sounds compared to high dynamic range well recorded jazz trios it still highly benefits from being played through high-end speakers and amps with plenty of headroom and finese.

On that account I shall bring up my friend's reaction to the discovery of how his favorite dubstep/chillstep tracks sound on hifi equipment. I could literally not move him away from the stereo for two straight hours. Even then the only motivation to make him move away was with chicks and booze. I too was impressed with the sound mostly by the low f punches - he on the other hand never yet heard such clear and neutral hi's mid's and also appreciated the lows that for the first time in his experience weren't boomy/mushy.

Everyone who encounters quality stereo for the first time really enjoys and appreciates it. The reason they don't have it at home is because of being brainwashed by 20 years of marketing resulting in degradation of their requirements reinforced by lower and lower quality equipment marketed as the new real deal. Ignorance is bliss. Thankfully I keep converting one by one. Plant the seed, water it from time to time and it shall flourish one day.

[SEAWOLF97]

Plant the seed, water it from time to time and it shall flourish one day.

My son is not a teenie, but a college student at 30 (just got his Masters and working on PhD)...I am storing (well using..:o:) his L100's and he has L56's and spins vinyl on an SL-1200 mk1...one of the best college classes he took was MUSIC APPRECIATION...it really opened up his mind to everything from the 30's on ....

back to the quote ...
when he was in the 3-6 age range, I controlled his media intake ...made up vidTapes of things that were preferable to TV ( mostly Gumby and Pokey, Yellow Submarine ..etc) and I made cassette tapes to be played at bedtime on his little auto shutoff player ...they were mainly LVB and Mozart .

I am amazed at what he now teaches me abt music ... and quality playback is always a high concern with him.

the seeds I planted have flourished well over the 25+ years.

[Amnes]

Way to go! Music appreciation - what a class! I've been learning this stuff on my own for the last two years and now I take pleasure from listrning to orchestral all the way to gabber. If I could only make my parents tolerate classic soulful house music at high volume level... :D. They'll get it sooner or later, must keep collecting class sleeves for the occasion.

[Titanium Dome]

On that account I shall bring up my friend's reaction to the discovery of how his favorite dubstep/chillstep tracks sound on hifi equipment. I could literally not move him away from the stereo for two straight hours. Even then the only motivation to make him move away was with chicks and booze. I too was impressed with the sound mostly by the low f punches - he on the other hand never yet heard such clear and neutral hi's mid's and also appreciated the lows that for the first time in his experience weren't boomy/mushy.

Everyone who encounters quality stereo for the first time really enjoys and appreciates it. The reason they don't have it at home is because of being brainwashed by 20 years of marketing resulting in degradation of their requirements reinforced by lower and lower quality equipment marketed as the new real deal.

Dubstep, chicks, and booze, eh? :rotfl: In my day it was sex, drugs, and rock'n'roll. Not all that different.:D

Dubstep (and derivative brostep) is big here in LA these days. There's a show in Chinatown on Monday night.

"Lower and lower quality equipment marketed as the real deal" is not a new affliction for music appreciation. Since way before my time (think centuries, not decades) there's always been someone who made a cheaper version of a product and marketed it as better. In the 60s and early 70s when I was in college, my JBL L100s were far and away the best loudspeakers of anyone I knew, and my Kenwood receiver and Dual turntable made everyone else's equipment look like toys. I can recall brands like Electrophonic selling tons of cheap gear and even once-respected brands like Zenith, Magnavox, and RCA flooding the market with gimmicky, awful sounding stuff to capture high school, college, and young adult music lovers. This mass market approach sold many more units than the real hi-fi units of the day, but little if any of it is remembered, while the great equipment of that time still has value and usefulness.

I think the same will be true today.

[DrPsyche]

Sound reproduction – art and science/opinions and facts by Floyd Toole:
https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/32061-in-search-of-accurate-sound-reproduction-the-final-word (https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/32061-in-search-of-accurate-sound-reproduction-the-final-word/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrpUDuUtxPM
More audio topics on https://writemyessaytoday.net/write-my-essay-in-2-hours (https://writemyessaytoday.net/write-my-essay-in-2-hours)



I guess Steve Guttenberg described it perfectly well in his article Who wants perfectly accurate sound? I simply listen to the The Absolute Cloud using my Audio Aggravator. Btw, any pdf copy of Accurate Sound Reproduction Using DSP by Mitch Barnett here?

[hatrack71]

They may prefer it but they aren't buying it. Millenials are the portable generation and don't seem to have any interest in home audio at all around these parts. I can count the serious audiophiles here on one hand. Not kidding. We're dying off like flies and the gear is being sold cheap or given away by the kids. 99% have no idea what stuff even is... let alone any value.

[Mr. Widget]

In a world where you don’t buy or collect music, why would you want to encumber yourself with a pile of bulky heavy boxes to playback the music you stream? You watch movies on a tablet and listen to music via headphones or a powered streaming player.

The shrinking interest in our hobby isn’t unique, who collects stamps, who builds model railroads, who buys antiques, and on and on... old gray haired folks are still interested in these things, but very few folks under 40 are. In my part of the world, most 20-30 somethings are no longer even interested in cars. They would rather Uber and spend their money on “experiences” and not things.


Widget

[RMC]

Hi hatrack and Widget,

WOW!

Never really stopped to think about this, doing it now while reading posts, but it does seem like good accounts of new reality 101. Sad but true, except for the car/Uber thing here up to now.

Checking that talk vs our 28 year old daughter and her husband, the hat seems to fit. 3-4 years ago we bought them a new small stereo system for their first appartment. Within six months the gear was back in boxes in the locker, to make space in the living room for the X-Box, Play Station or some other Nitendo gadget...

Kept asking now and then where's the audio? No space its stored. Definitely not a priority for them having their portable audio gadget. And the CD player on the system probably never been used since there's a connection where a smart phone can be plugged...

In their new appartment recently, the audio stuff resurfaced on top of some furniture. I assume only because she does the X-Mas family gathering this year, lol. After the Holidays I'd bet the gear will be back in box in the locker...

On the other hand they do like some of the older 70's or 80's music that plays here when they come home: what's this song? who does it? Then enters the info in her phone, probably to get it later from streaming...

She's quite stunned looking at LP records and a turntable playing them, from the prehistoric icing age... What they know is basically MP3 sound, and pretty much don't bother about the rest.

Well I don't have a smart phone and not missing at all being a slave to this like so many I see, then I guess I'm still part of the dinosaurs... Regards,

Richard

[SEAWOLF97]

In my part of the world, most 20-30 somethings are no longer even interested in cars. They would rather Uber and spend their money on “experiences” and not things.


Widget

Had never really thought abt the situation as described. Cannot argue and think I agree.

Have recently thought of their “experiences” as opportunities for selfies to upload to social media to show (artificially) what a great life you've made of things.

Maybe that's a good thing. :dont-know: As a life-long photographer, I have many images of me (selfies ?) that show situations , experiences & locations that have faded from memory and are refreshed by the pics. Some, maybe better off ..forgotten ?