Anyone has experience with DBX's 120a subharmonics synthetizer?

[Lee in Montreal]

http://www.dbxpro.com/120A/ http://www.dbxpro.com/images/product_pgs/product_images/120Afront_lg.jpg http://www.dbxpro.com/images/product_pgs/product_images/PXrear_lg.jpg
The 120a is the modern version of the good old DBX boombox

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rScBRKlTdoE/TBBG7sCsdeI/AAAAAAABIbo/XNnF-SdxdWQ/s1600/DBX_BoomBox_Sub_Harmonic_synth_3.jpg

[hjames]

I think I've heard one (or something like it) behind Hilary Stagg's harp playing on Sweet Return,
and probably on Boz Scagg's Dig album -
but never actually touched one ...


http://www.dbxpro.com/120A/
The 120a is the modern version of the good old DBX boombox

[Baron030]

Contact SMKSoundPro, he could tell you.

Here is a link to his system that uses a DBX120:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?20021
Go to page 5 and view posting #64. :lol_fit:

Baron030:)

[louped garouv]

(Alaska) Scotty / SMKSoundPro hasn't been around posting here in awhile....
i've been trying to reach him also...

but no response contact attempts.... :(




I have a dbx 500, with is identical to the vintage 100/110,
except for the case and I/O connectors :)
but have never used a 120 series unit...

they are (generally) good for playing old disco & soul cuts sometimes;
but if you overdo the 500, they get kinda synthetic sounding...

used in moderation, they are fun and mostly unnoticable

(i run it on subwoofer outputs only, not through the full range portion of signal)

the thing with using it on modern records, at least the stuff i am listening too regularly,
is that there is already much low bass/sub bass on the track already...
no real need to add anymore... IMHO of course...

[Ruediger]

... and I use it with 4430s, only the sub-harmonic band, not the sub-sub. I use it moderately, and it sounds unspectacular, just good.

Ruediger

[Guy in WNY]

Hello,
I use the DBX 3BX in my system, put on the tape loop from the Marantz integreated amp. This makes it easy to take out for new CD's and other stuff that is already "hot" enough for your tastes. Any time you want a little sizzle and boom, hit the tape button and go for it!
I really like it for records. Helps them a lot.
I also own and have used the 120, but the 3bx suited my needs so much more. Rack mountable and with a corded remote! How cool is that?

[louped garouv]

I think those 3BX units are expanders, right?

like the units by RG Dynamics back when....

I like the RG dynamic expanders sometimes also...
not just for records, sometimes for overly compressed digital music too...

I think i read that the RGs have less of a tendancy to "puff" than the dbx units
but again, it's all about moderate use of the effect with this sort of unit -- IMHO

[Ruediger]

Behringer Ultrabass Pro EX-1200, a boom box clone, and possibly a patent violation, thus out of production.

Pioneer EX-9000, an expander. I have them both in my office, not connected to my large gear, so I cannot really compare them.

Ruediger

[louped garouv]

i do think that pioneer had licensed the RG Dynamics technology 'back in the day'
:) see lots of vintage pioneer expanders with "RG" somewhere on their faceplates or chassis....

[Lee in Montreal]

Behringer Ultrabass Pro EX-1200, a boom box clone, and possibly a patent violation, thus out of production.

I found a local 18 months old DBX120A (successor to the 120XP) for $100.00
BTW I forgot to mention that the DBX 120A functions are included in the DBX Driverack PA active crosovers.

[Guy in WNY]

I set mine to just have the lights flicker right at the spot just where the yellow (compression) and red (expansion) lights start to fire on, then add a little more expansion as needed. Yes, you want to avoid the "pumping" sound an expander can give the music if you get too heavy on it.
Unless, of course, that's what you want to hear.:bouncy:

[Ruediger]

I set mine to just have the lights flicker right at the spot just where the yellow (compression) and red (expansion) lights start to fire on, then add a little more expansion as needed. Yes, you want to avoid the "pumping" sound an expander can give the music if you get too heavy on it.
Unless, of course, that's what you want to hear.:bouncy:

... has three separately adjustable bands, which the dbx has not. The dbx only has one control for all three bands. Also the Pioneer has two selectable release times.

Ruediger

[Guy in WNY]

The first slider is sort of the sensitivity control and the other one is how much expansion you want to add on. And yes, all three bands are controlled by the one slider. The remote adds a slider so you can vary the speed at which the expansion occurs, and also a volume slider. And you can hit one button and it cuts the volume to a preset level. Say the phone rings. You just flick that switch, the volume slowly fades, and you answer the phone. There is a tiny pot you can adjust the low level to under a plate on the back of the remote.
TRANSITION LEVEL, that's what they call it but it's really a sensitivity sort of control.

[Lee in Montreal]

I just bought a Furman DJM-8 DJ mixer. My main motivation to purchase it ($90.00 vs ongoing eBay rate of $250.00) was that it has Furman's own harmonic synthetizer function. I used it at perhaps 5% of its "enhamcement" capacity, and that's all I need. The results are quite impressive. It adds a good amount of bottom end in my 4520. I'll live with it for some time, and if I still love it in a few months, then I will purchase a more sophisticated DBX 120a.

BTW That "boombox" feature is a great complement to the 4520s where the peak (resonance) is at 80Hz. By filling in the 20-50hz area, the sound is now full. There must have been a reason why a "DBX" boombox was used at Studio 54... ;)

Forgot to mention that DBX's Driverack has the 120a function included.

55282

[Guy in WNY]

Lee, do you have it on your preamp out or is it on the crossover out?
I like the Furman TX-3B, I use 3 of them. First one for the subs, set for about 80 cycles, then one each for left and right in a three way configuration. Works well, but 2 custom built Marchands would be super!

[Lee in Montreal]

The Furman DJM-8 mixer is my preamp. It does the job for now. But honestly I will maybe spend more money on a higher quality mixer in the future and use a DBX 120a between the active crossover and the power amp. But it's a nice little gear for parties.

[dr_gallup]

Hello,
I use the DBX 3BX in my system, put on the tape loop from the Marantz integreated amp. This makes it easy to take out for new CD's and other stuff that is already "hot" enough for your tastes. Any time you want a little sizzle and boom, hit the tape button and go for it!
I really like it for records. Helps them a lot.
I also own and have used the 120, but the 3bx suited my needs so much more. Rack mountable and with a corded remote! How cool is that?

I used a DBX 3BX for years, really liked it. Do have to use it in moderation. Some of the switches got noisy, for awhile I could switch them on/off/on/off a couple of times and clean up the connection but eventually that quit working. I tried spraying some contact cleaner on them to no avail. Mine was rack mounted but no remote. Didn't really need a remote though. Still have it, anyone know where to get replacement switches?

[Lee in Montreal]

I returned the mixer to the seller. It had an unbearable hum. I will look for a quality DJ mixer. But I did enjoy the subharmonic synthetizer so much that I purchased a brand new DBX 120a. Basically, it will makes any flat LP sound like a 200gr Jamaican pressing 12" 45rpm dub plate... The 120a will be inserted between the active crossover and the power amps for the bass channels so that it doesn't interefere in the upper ranges. Now looking for a quality analog mixer with 4 channels. Maybe a UREI 1603, or an Allen Heath... No knobs there. I want sliders... ;) Oh, and I made some 18U cabinets with casters this weekend. It has a serie of holes at the bottom to allow fresh air to enter, and has a free U at the top to evacuate hot air, while the back is fully open. Now waiting for the rails to arrive in order to mount everything properly.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/JBL parts factory/DSCN1206.jpg

[moparfan]

The specs make it look like it could be used for the LFE on movie tracks too. Have you tried that?

edit: the owner's manual says high levels of bass can make cd players skip. I must admit I never had that happen. Maybe I've got to just let it rip.


I returned the mixer to the seller. It had an unbearable hum. I will look for a quality DJ mixer. But I did enjoy the subharmonic synthetizer so much that I purchased a brand new DBX 120a. Basically, it will makes any flat LP sound like a 200gr Jamaican pressing 12" 45rpm dub plate... The 120a will be inserted between the active crossover and the power amps for the bass channels so that it doesn't interefere in the upper ranges. Now looking for a quality analog mixer with 4 channels. Maybe a UREI 1603, or an Allen Heath... No knobs there. I want sliders... ;) Oh, and I made some 18U cabinets with casters this weekend. It has a serie of holes at the bottom to allow fresh air to enter, and has a free U at the top to evacuate hot air, while the back is fully open. Now waiting for the rails to arrive in order to mount everything properly.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/JBL parts factory/DSCN1206.jpg

[Lee in Montreal]

I'll wait until I get the 120a and test it. Results I liked were from the Furman's "Punch" subharmonics synthetizer. I think the DBX 120a's purpose is to cover for badly mastered sources. I have 12" 45rpm singles that have deep and powerfull bass, and for which I don't need any processing. At the same time, someother records sond "emasculated". It looks like the engineer deliberately cut the bottom octave. Which is where the DBX will shine by restoring it. On film soundtracks, it is the opposite. They are usually mastered with a much inflated 20-50Hz range. I am sure that the DBX may make films sound huge, but perhaps too much of a good thing is just... too much. Not sure that scenes will dialogs and deep voice tones will like that processing...Anyway, the idea of extending the bass is a good one. I have a "Q modifier" in the form of a Kef Kube 200. That thing is fine on certain types of music, but too brutal for many others. It also adds like 20db at 20Hz. Tough on wooders. And I think there's no need to boost that much a frequency range with no content from bad mastering anyway...

[louped garouv]

the 'phase coupled activator' by audiocontrol may be of interest to you guys also...
it is reported to restore the lower frequencies dropped off during mastering/mixdown...
basically

also has a built in xover...

:)

here's a link to a hosted manual
http://mypicsonline.net/gallery/d/326-1/AudioControl-PCA200_Owners_Manual.pdf

and a review on the third iteration of the unit...
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_3_1/v3n1h.html

[moparfan]

There's also a subharmonic nestled into the Driverack PA+.

[1audiohack]

I almost brought up the Audio Control thing, I still have one and although it's not currently in use I think it sounds far better than the DBX subsonic synthesizer that comes in the PA or the 260. I'll have to dig it out and see how it compares to the 4800.

I haven't looked in a while, is Audio Control Industrial still alive?

[louped garouv]

I haven't looked in a while, is Audio Control Industrial still alive?

think audiocontrol is into car and home theater, still in business...
I called over there recently looking for schematics for one of their fixed freq EQs...

they do not share schematics with the public, at all...

[Lee in Montreal]

Here are my first impressions after a week. I effing love that mofo of a device. ;)
Every bass head shall have one. I sure won't get 20Hz from my 4520s but now the bottom end is so much fuller. The 120a is located between the preamp and the CDX2496 and adds no extra noise into the chain. The added dynamic is quite impressive. It's a $200 device that is well worth it. The only glitch (for me) is that there's no on/off switch. Basically you have to pull the plug daily, or keep it on at all time.

If I had subwoofers for the bottom octave, I am sure I would destroy the house's foundations... :eek:

BTW I listen to mostly vinyl and haven't yet tested with CDs. I don't really listen to ceedez...

55609
55608

[Guy in WNY]

Hello Lee,
I finally got around to getting a picture or two of the remote. It's not a very common device, from what I understand, so here are the pix:557535575455755
It's on the end of a cord about 20 feet long, with a multi pin chinch-jones plug on the end.

[duaneage]

I've had a 120x-ds for about 25 years, mine is the home version. It has 4 bands of adjustable gain which allows fine tuning of where the bass is augmented. There is a full range or high pass switch on the back as well as a separate sub out if used post volume control. The unit can handle very large signal inputs so it's capable of operating between power amps and preamps.

The 120 is one of DBX most famous products and was behind dance must for decades. I use it with a 3bx-ds as well and the two work well together. Those who use straightwire preamps and shun equalization shriek in horror at such manipulation but the production of most music involves heavy manipulation. The DBX processors are extensions of what they used to record a lot of it.

[Eaulive]

I played a little with the DSP version of my Driverack and didn't like it too much, it sounds too artificial to my taste. I rather play with the PEQ for the LF channel of the crossover section, it sounds smoother.

Granted, I didn't play with it extensively.

Remember that below 28-30Hz nothing happens with the 4520s, the cones move and that's about it.

[toddalin]

Interesting. I have a dBx 110 subharmonic synthesizer and it doesn't say "boombox" on it.

[Eaulive]

I felt like listening to Donna Summer (RIP) when I arrived from work today, and for fun I tried to setup the sub-harmonic synthetizer in my Driverack PA.
Oh wow! It definitely makes a good difference, very good on those old recordings that were not having very much information below 50Hz. Now it grooves like newer recordings :applaud::dj-party:

[Lee in Montreal]

I like the DBX-120 for that same reason. It creates some sub-50Hz content where it was pretty weak. It adds some foundation to an old recording. Especially on vinyl.

"I feel love" - Donna Summer and Georgio Moroder

http://www.google.ca/url?source=imglanding&ct=img&q=http://media.soundonsound.com/sos/oct09/images/ClassicTracks_01.jpg&sa=X&ei=14q1T_euOcix6QHniMnaDw&ved=0CAoQ8wc4Mg&usg=AFQjCNH95VdvJpM9fkozJA5embrqsv5gEw

[Eaulive]

On thing led to another, I finished my evening with the complete A side of "from here to eternity"
This guy's a genius :applaud: