high spl satelit speaker

[panduro]

Hi all,

im going to build 2 front satellite speakers for my small ht.

it needs to cover 80/100hz and up. below 80/100 subwoofers will take over.

xover and eq will be done actively by a dbx pa+.

high frequency wil be handled by a jbl 276nd, basicly a jbl 2426 but with horn mounting via 1-3/8"-18 male thread.

subwoofer drivers: jbl le120h(got 3 of them)

thats what i already got for the project.

but i need a midbass/midrange driver to cover from 80/100 to about 1600-2000hz.

i would prefer a single 10 inch driver with high sensitivity and a high powerrating, that needs 1,5 cubic feet cabinet or less.


what would you suggest?'

best regards

bent

[subwoof]

how wide is your horn??

2123 / 2012 ( 10 inch ) would work well. I have a number of the 8" 2250HPL mid woofers that were designed with an integrral sealed back but might work well in about a .5ft3 box.

sub

[pos]

Hi Sub
Would you also have 4" phase plugs for the 2250H ?

[panduro]

thanks for replying to my post

my horns are jbl 73150, looks like the jbl 2370A, dimentions are w x h x d 14,6 x 5,2 x 6,3.

I wanna change those for something a little less horn and a bit more waveguide. i would like them to be "same" size as the midwoofer, but can go a bit bigger if necesary. Why? and do you have a good suggestion?

Jbl 2123, does that driver do well all the way down to 80/100hz, i had the impression that i woudnt go below 200hz?

jbl 2012, well both drivers look like the fit my wishes very well if the are good down to 100/80hz. differences in the sound from the two??


best regards

bent

[1audiohack]

I love and have used the 2123 and the 2020 in many systems. My favorite combinations when aesthetics are included in the equation are the 2123 with a 2342 or the 2020 with a 2344.

Neither the 2123 or 2020 drivers speak with authority below 200/250Hz in sealed enclosures to my satisfaction. I have 2020/2344's in my office at work and my bedroom at home with subs and they can be leveraged to sound pretty nice but sound far better on top of a 15" if you want them for more critical listening than background music or to play them loud. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, who's to say. That said I think many who have become accustomed to the sub-sat sound just don't miss the midbass or have forgotten, most sound week to me, but is something with a 12" in it really a sat?;)

Sometime ago I think one of the Rob's here posted something about a vented 2123 project tuned near 80hz, maybe for a car project?

All the best,
Barry.

[panduro]

Hi Barry,

i did read about it, but dont think it was done.

reason for me building a sat sub system is that my room are to small. bass speakers in the corners, not good.

so i need something powerful that will do around 80hz so i wont notise the xover to the subs as much. will make 3 new sub cabinets so i should be able to get a uniform basresponce even in my small room.

the 2020, how high did you cross it over to the tweeter?

best regards

panduro

[subwoof]

if you want the satellites to hit 80hz then you need to use high-compliant woofers. playing tuning / porting / etc games with pure midrange cones to get usability below 200 or so is not worth the effort or design compromises.

The horns are a little too wide ( they are the model 2371 ) and like mentioned, the 10 / 2342 combo looks very nice and your 2426 can thread to it.

perhaps a pair of LE10H woofers or one of the variants would be best.

BTW - nogo on 2250 phase plugs but I DO have the fitted back cap/shrouds.


sub

[Mr. Widget]

Why not go with a 2206? It'll make 80Hz in the right cab... is quite sensitive, and can take a lot of power.


Widget

[Lee in Montreal]

I am surprised nobody mentionned the 8" 2118. It would easily go down to 70Hz in a small size vented cab and up to 2KHz And it can take a lot of power (for its size).

Lee

With big 4" port

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/Lee_Vuong/JBL parts factory/Fitted_1.jpg

[Mr. Widget]

I am surprised nobody mentionned the 8" 2118. It would easily go down to 70Hz in a small size vented cab and up to 2KHz And it can take a lot of power...
I guess we have different definitions for "high SPL".


Widget

[speakerdave]

There is an old thread here somewhere in which a member showed his diy HT speaker systems using 2118;s and the Dr. Suess horn, which is a threaded horn, as I remember.

[speakerdave]

The horn is more properly called the OASR, still listed as available last fall:

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Horn%20List/Horn%20List.pdf

[speakerdave]

Actually, he used the 2206 for all speakers except the center channel. It was Woody Banks, and here is the thread:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?5516-HT-system-Dr-Seuss-Horn-2206&highlight=OASR

[Lee in Montreal]

I guess we have different definitions for "high SPL".

Considering what is needed, is anything more powerfull really needed?


im going to build 2 front satellite speakers for my small ht.
subwoofer drivers: jbl le120h(got 3 of them)

[Mr. Widget]

Considering what is needed, is anything more powerfull really needed?
Don't know... I don't really need high SPLs, but if I did, I'd want much more than an 8" woofer.


Widget

[Lee in Montreal]

Don't know... I don't really need high SPLs, but if I did, I'd want much more than an 8" woofer.


Widget

The OP only needs satellites, he doesn't really need bass out of them. So no woofer really needed for his application. 80Hz is upper bass/lower mid and the 2118 is good there. ;) Also, I wonder if a 2206 is that happy at 2KHz when JBL recommends a 1,5KHz crossover. Not to mention a Vas of 2cft against 0.5cft for the 2118.

[Mr. Widget]

The OP only needs satellites, he doesn't really need bass out of them. I got that... and the 2206 really isn't much of a "woofer", but whatever.


Widget

[1audiohack]

Hi panduro;

I have the 2020's in the bedroom crossed right about 800Hz, the office pair about 1100 I think, I'll have to look to be sure. The reason for the difference is working around the first significant reflection, they are placed and oriented very differently.

I am in the 2206 camp on this as well, at what I would consider high SPL, 110-115dB SPL at 10 or 12 feet or so, the 2020 won't willingly deliver below about 200Hz and if you try to force it to I think you will be displeased. The 2206 is easy to get and will get the job done and sounds pretty good up to 1400-1500Hz.

In my main system where the subs are crossed in at 70Hz when listening to music, often times there is much more power going to the mid bass drivers (2227's) than the subs (GTI 1800's) so I nolonger underestimate the work required by the midbass portion of a high performance system.

[panduro]

right, i forgot to define high sensitivity, for me thats above 96db 1w, with a minimum wish of 110db with very little distortion a 10 feet.

i thought about the 2118, mostly because of price and the availability, plus the high regard "people" in general have of them as a midrange driver. but i would need to put 2 in a speaker and thats not really ideal as i only have room for a 29" tall cabinet and i have to tilt it to get the right angle, with 2 woofers that woudnt be easy to get "perfect". one driver would be alot easier to get to behave.


2206, dont know that one either, but did find a jbl pdf on it. Woody banks speakers looks very nice and a very similar project. thank you for the link! I dont think he mentioned anything about the xover point, but he has the same hf driver so its possible, but how big is the compromise when xover is done at 1200hz with the 2426(with the right horn/waveguide)?
I can handle a MAX of 2,5cft if nessesary.



horn 2371, thank you, thats the one i got.

the butt horn are almost impossible to get in denmark an very expensive when they do surface.

i thought about getting something like http://www.diysoundgroup.com/waveguides/autotech-waveguides/os12.html , not very jbl:( but it would look so cool with a 12" woofer:o:.



thank you(all) for your patience.

best regards

bent

[subwoof]

the 2118 / 2118 / M209 cones always seemed too thin and many of them just folded and creased at the first rib. I made a pile of 2404 / 2118 traps out of baltic birch for a low ceiling club many years ago and even with limiters and filters the cones just didn't last.

If there are going to be (3) 15's for sub the spl ain't gonna cut it....

sub

[subwoof]

Here's an idea - I have 6 or 8 of these that came from a closed theater - the driver is a standard thread mount and the cone is very similar to the high efficiency types you need for your app. And the box size / baffle is very manageable since there is no additional horn to fit....!

I had the cones WR treated by my reconer to prevent moisture degradation

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Discrete%20Sales%20Models/2152H.pdf

I could ship a pair of these sans driver - ??

sub

[panduro]

its not 3 15" subs, its 3 12"(le120h) subs, but its more than enoughf bass for me.

subwoof i pm you! im not sure coax is what i wanna do for fronts, but they would sure make nice rears.

best regards

panduro

[panduro]

I ended up using custom made fane 12" woofer/midrange(well mostly midrange 101db/1W/1m) with the 2426 and a seos-12 waveguide from autotech- i know, that lineup its not very jbl :o:.

just made the trial enclosures, they sound really well, a bit on the lean side but my subs will have to take care of that.

now just gotta measure, get stuffing right, get the phase right oh my god, it will be a long time before im done:)

but thanks for the suggestions even thought i ended up with some thing completely different.


best regards

panduro