AR-XB Turntable

[herki the cat]

QUOTE=SEAWOLF97;196135]One of the nicest classic AR turntables that you will find...plays super (2 speeds)..includes good dustcover and EMPIRE 66 QE/X cart/needle. This has the cueing that the XA model didn't have...PM me if intereested.for shipping estimate, just calc 15 pounds from 97233/also have a second one that needs cleaning and has no arm if anyone is interested, does have DC[/QUOTE]It it is not common knowledge that "the AR Turntable platter is identical to the fantastic 'Linn Turntable Platter." The Linn turntable also uses a tiny clock motor, & a string drive belt plus a very efficient simple chassis suspension. This AR platter is dead quite & does not ring like a bell, because it is a "two-component platter design,"__ mounted on the main shaft __ supporting a 6 inch diameter aluminum center disc with a 1/4 inch step outer-diameter coupled to a 12 inch diameter disc "ring" with a matching 6 inch hole completing the 12 inch platter design "ripped off " from the linn turntable. __ Take the mat of the AR platter to see this construction.:bouncy:

The word in RCA Camden stated by the late genius, Mr. Al. Witchy __Co-inventor of the famous "Perry Como RCA Bk-10 Microphone," and the post WW-2 Photophone Permanent Magnet 3 inch Phenolic High Frequency Horn Drivers superseding RCA's MI-1428 HF Drivers__ was, quote: "you achieve very llttle damping by coating metal horns etc, with tar and felt materials. You need a gap, however thin, in metal structures to kill the metal ringing like a bell.":applaud:

Perry Como had a very soft voice requiring an ultra directional microphone __ the RCA-BK-10 created for Perry__ which could be positioned back out of view of the TV Studio cameras. ...herki [QUOTE/]

[Audiobeer]

:) PM sent!

[herki the cat]

:) PM sent!

PM to Whom?

[Audiobeer]

That's freakin funny, I saw your response to a 4 year old post and assumed it was a new thread for the turntable sale. So I PM'd Seawolf and got a response rather quickly that he sold it almost 4 years ago. I tried to recover by telling him that it was my 3G phone that took so long to get the message through, but he's not buying it. I just came off as stupid. :o:

[herki the cat]

That's freakin funny, I saw your response to a 4 year old post and assumed it was a new thread for the turntable sale. So I PM'd Seawolf and got a response rather quickly that he sold it almost 4 years ago. I tried to recover by telling him that it was my 3G phone that took so long to get the message through, but he's not buying it. I just came off as stupid. :o:

[Quote " I just came off as stupid,"] I would say"not really," My sincere apologies, it was not your fault that I failed to include the 4 year old post date:o:. I was mired up in a "heads up" lookout for these AR's with the same superb quiet Linn record platter. These AR's still show up in Church Rumage Sales including Estate Sales of our contemporaries down-sizing to move to retirement comunities, and Yard Sales, the Goodwill Stores, and Trade in Old Audio Stores. These AR's are extremely easy to convert to a Linn configuation by replacing the massive noisy AR capstan motor & pulley with a $5.00 clock motor & appropriate pulley, using Dental Floss for the drive belt.

The Linn drive system is extremely quiet since the clock motor armature mass is extremely small compared to the mass of the platter, aka a very high ratio of "platter mass" to the "tiny mass" of the clock motor rotor equates to a very efficient mechanical filter. It is equivalent to flipping a pea against a brick __ there isn't enough kenetic energy stored in the tiny mass of the pea in motion to budge that brick. The Linn suspension system also is very simple to duplicate.

The Linn is superb with the original "Itock inc,." Arm and other equivalents laying around in closets of people that buy the latest kilo-buck arms or thier trade-in's on massive home theater systems. Most High End dealers are very flexible with their pricing. My best, herki [QUOTE/]

[hjames]

Thanks for the informative additions to the older thread! Please, tell me more!
We have Emma's AR-XB in the attic while my Denon DP-45F is the table that's been connected downstairs -
but if the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it!



[Quote " I just came off as stupid,"] I would say"not really," My sincere apologies, it was not your fault that I failed to include the 4 year old post date:o:. I was mired up in a "heads up" lookout for these AR's with the same superb quiet Linn record platter. These AR's still show up in Church Rumage Sales including Estate Sales of our contemporaries down-sizing to move to retirement comunities, and Yard Sales, the Goodwill Stores, and Trade in Old Audio Stores. These AR's are extremely easy to convert to a Linn configuation by replacing the massive noisy AR capstan motor & pulley with a $5.00 clock motor & appropriate pulley, using Dental Floss for the drive belt.

The Linn drive system is extremely quite since the clock motor armature mass is extremely small compared to the mass of the platter, aka a very high ratio of "platter mass" to the "tiny mass" of the clock motor rotor equates to a very efficient mecanical filter. It is equivalent to flipping a pea against a brick __ there isn't enough kenetic energy stored in the tiny mass of the pea in motion to budge that brick. The Linn suspension system also is very simple to duplicate.

The Linn is superb with the original "Itock inc,." Arm and other equivalents laying around in closets of people that buy the latest kilo-buck arms or thier trade-in's on massive home theater systems. Most High End dealers are very flexible with pricing. My best, herki [QUOTE/]

[Audiobeer]

Heather you don't have enough time for this project. Do you need my shipping address?

[hjames]

Heather you don't have enough time for this project. Do you need my shipping address?

maybe so - but its Emma's turntable - she's kept it since college so she's in no rush to selll

But - wanna buy some Magneplanars??
They're crowding the others ...
(The DQ10s are going up for sale in a bit too ...)

[herki the cat]

Thanks for the informative additions to the older thread! Please, tell me more! We have Emma's AR-XB in the attic while my Denon DP-45F is the table that's been connected downstairs - but if the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it!

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Audiobeer http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=323831#post323831) Heather you don't have enough time for this project. Do you need my shipping address? [Quote/]

Not to worry, Audiobeer, there are plenty of these AR's in people's attics .... I have one and my son in law has a brand new one gathering dust and he couldn't care less; he's had it with LP's, and he is happy with 10,000 CD's

Heather, it is very easy to up grade the AR's__ first look at the XB to verify that your model does have the two piece platter that splits apart by lifting the outer section of the platter. The most __not very__ difficult item is having a capstan machined for the new quiet clock motor with the required belt driving dameter, typical cost = $30.00. You can expect both the AR obsolete capstan monster motor & the new Clock motor to operate at the same constant speed, synchronized to the AC power 60 Hz frequency.

Therefore the new capstan for the replacment clock motor can be machined with the same belt-driving diameter of the orignal old monstor motor capstan.Note: if both motors do no have identical RPM ratings, you can easily fabricate a new capstan diameter comparing the ratio of "new" to the "old capstan" diameters in accord with the ratio of the RPM Ratings of the "new clock motor" to the "old monstor motor".
Other than this, you may be able to examine a friend's Linn for motor data and measurement of the capstan belt drive diameter.

As for the funky simple suspension of the linn, you will achieve a supirior system adding significant mass to the underside of the old AR, aka a two inch thick slab of marble resting on five inches of lead shot or sand in an open wooden box. herki[QUOTE/]

[herki the cat]

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by Hjames http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=323816#post323816) [Quote/]= "If the XB is reasonably easy to update to such performance, I'll pull it out and dig into it![Quote/]


Heather, Been thinking about my first high end turntable circa 1953 when you folks were probably only a glint in someone's eye. Paul Weathers left RCA with a patent based on an "FM Mono LP Cartridge" which to this day, Harry Pearson, publisher of "The Absolute Sound" always said: "This is my all time Preferred Mono Cartridge." The Weathers Tone Arm made from Balsa Wood was dead quiet and perfectly stable.

Paul Weathers marketed a very simple high-end turntable with a low mass 12 inch platter stamped out of 1/16 inch aluminum with a very well damped mat loaded with tungsten dust using the same Clock Motor ripped off by Linn; these industrial grade motors with a 1/16 inch diameter shaft are available in a wide range of RPM. My hot air furnace humidifier uses one of these motors to rotate an 8 inch diameter "wet foam" drum at (1) RPM.

Paul Weathers crafted a very reliable capstan of 0.75 inch diameter, 1/8 inch thick, tapered to 1/16 inch at the diameter edge from a very compliant rubber eraser. He poked a hole in the center with a needle and slipped it on to the motor shaft. His speaker systems used the RCA 1950's LC-12 wide range 12 inch speakers with a one inch voice coil driving a low mass curvilinear cone whose diameter decreases as the frequency increases. The functioning cone diameter is about two inches at 10,000 Hz

Paul Weathers went on to develop an excellent high end piezo electric playback cartridge which was "dead flat" beyond 20,000 Hz, and superior to any existing moving coil cartridge prior to the current kilo-buck products. I still have my original Weathers Turntable.

BTHW, Mr. J. Gordon Holt who founded Stereophile in the fall of 1962 was a technician in Paul Weather's firm where he also published a popular technical periodical until he moved on to start Stereophile. Mr. Holt left Stereophile October 1999 to free lance and do some self-publishing with plans to express his thoughts on audio related matters in The Absolute Sound. heriki [QUOTE/]

[10 Watt Street]

Herki,
Is this the Weathers turntable you are referring to:

http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html

[herki the cat]

Herki,Is this the Weathers turntable you are referring to:http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html

POSITIVELY, This is the awesome PAUL WEATHERS TURNTABLE !!! It looks like some one who knows his business has found an inventory of Weathers products. You could not want or need a better turntable than a Linn, or this one placed over a twenty pound slab of marble or granite resting on a five inch bed of sand or lead shot in an open wooden box for rumble isolation from your speakers.

In this LINK=http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html (http://www.surplussales.com/Equipment/Audio.html) you will see a complete image of the Weathers Turntable, & some replacement parts including the "Compass Technical lnc.", clock motors costing $15,00 each.

These clock motors are perfect for up grading the AR XB Turntable herki[quote/]

[10 Watt Street]

Surplus Sales has had them listed on their website for approx. 10 years. I believe their stock is NOS.

[Audiobeer]

I'm still hoping Emma will want to sell Hers. If not what do you folks think is the best bang for the buck for a new plug and play under $500?

[Audiobeer]

Surplus Sales has had them listed on their website for approx. 10 years. I believe their stock is NOS.

I'm wondering what kind of work would be needed on a NOS turntable sitting in it's original box for almost 50 years?

[herki the cat]

I'm wondering what kind of work would be needed on a NOS turntable sitting in it's original box for almost 50 years?

My old 1950's Weathers Turntable in original condition still works just fine.

For those offered by Surplussales Inc., the worst possible could be perhaps, the rubber parts aka, the platter mat which you can replace with a Cork Sheet from Pep Boys, the little rubber capstan you can carve out of a soft Rubber Eraser (Been There); the Weathers Rubber Tone Arm Mounting Base "hardening," with age actually is an asset. Consider cleaning and lubricating the platter shaft and the tone arm mounting base shaft and just a small drop of sewing machine oil in the bearings of the twoCompass Technical Inc., 33 RPM & 45 RPM motors costing $15.00 each. What! you are still waiting, Go for it! herki[QUOTE/]

[hjames]

Herki, thanks for all the tech notes, and for the memories ...
Now I've just got to pull Em's AR-XB out of the attic - and make room for it somewhere!
(Probably on the L200plus system with the carver receiver...)
... tho its also sounding like I want to find a tube amp for that system ...!

[10 Watt Street]

I'm still hoping Emma will want to sell Hers. If not what do you folks think is the best bang for the buck for a new plug and play under $500?

REGA RP1, $445 complete with Ortofon OM5e installed and aligned. Steve Daniels/Sound Org, the US Distributor, spent a number of years with Linn.

[hjames]

I had never paid much attention to Emma's AR turntable in the past because I remember a friend in college had an AR-XA that bounced and skipped on anything we played on it ... bad conduction from the floor or whatever!

I didn't realize Emma's was a different model ...
So, before breakfast, I went into the attic and pulled it down.

Amazingly, the dust cover is clean and uncracked!
of course, it could use some cleaning, and the cartridge is lacking a stylus(!)

Could also use a mat on the platter.
Think I have an old heavy rubber audiophile thing somewhere that I didn't use with my Denon ...
Yep, found it! a snug fit ...

53825

[hjames]

More pics - That heavy rubber platter mat weighed down the suspension too much - so based on a tip from Herki, I cut a new mat from some sheet cork I had around. It should flatten down once I put some vinyl on it. And a hockey puck clamp! Now I need to get a cartridge for it - go a 681EEE Stanton in my Denon downstairs, but don't want to pull it for testing ... Got pieces of 2 Audiotechnica carts of ancient vintage, but neither of them has a stylus ...

53826

53828

53827


53838

[herki the cat]

I had never paid much attention to Emma's AR turntable in the past because I remember a friend in college had an AR-XA that bounced and skipped on anything we played on it ... bad conduction from the floor or whatever!
I didn't realize Emma's was a different model ... So, before breakfast, I went into the attic and pulled it down.[ATTACH]53825

Revised 6:00:am 11/28/11

Supporting the platter bearing and the tone arm mounting base__ my AR-XA has a two inch wide "T" sub chassis with an very stiff coil spring at each extremity of the "T" plus an aged, shrunken out of shape, chunk of foam for damping in each coil spring in vertical motion.

This suspension system does nothing to prevent this 10 pound assembly from rocking violently out of control in the horizontal plane and vertical direction at a rate, approx' (10) HZ per second. A good high-end design will feature a rate of (1 to 3) Hz per second traditionally addressed with some form of viscus damping. Otherwise, these vertical & horizontal modes will seriously aggravate the identical natural resonance modes of the undamped AR tone arm.

Worse that, the spring at the end of the long section of the "T" _ where the tone arm mounting is located_ has the same spring compliance as each of the two springs directly under the much heavier platter assembly. All springs should have identical resonant frequency below (1 to 2) Hz to provide damping in vertical motion. This equality is achieved using springs of compliance yielding identical vertical deflection of each spring. This mean equal supported mass and loaded deflection at each spring.

One other serious problem exists in the AR-AX __ "the drive motor is located on the cabinet top panel" allowing horizontal motion of the platter to and from the motor capstan. The motor should be mounted on the sub chassis. This tiny motor only consumes 1.5 watt!

The best solution is to fasten the sub chassis with little bolts directly to the AR cabinet top panel and adding, internally to the cabinet, equalizing weights located so the entire assembly has identical weight at each corner. This design modification can executed by placing additional incremental weights externally at each corner which can be transfered internally at each corner of the cabinet.

You should then attach a 20 pound marble slab under the cabinet supported by four highly damped identical springs of_ extreme stiffness in the horizontal plane located in a triangular configuration __ to provide a well damped vertical resonance of some (2 or 3) HZ well separated from the natural typical (10 t0 16) Hz resonance of the tone arm. There are many low cost tiny "dash pot" vertical damping devices similar to the shock mounts in automobiles available in this industry.

The famous "Oracle" Canadian Turntable has three "spring" towers supporting their sub chassis. The current "Oracle" now features three viscous piston damping devices with awesome results. herki[quote]

[hjames]

Found an Osawa MP-15 cartridge of indeterminate origin - set it for 3/4 gram downforce and played a bit of an old Passport album ... bounced like the dickens when I walked around the room ... Cheapo cart probably needs more downforce than that, but still - just like the AR-XA my friend Joe had back in the early 70s! No doubt it needs the marble base and some viscous feet!

[herki the cat]

... bounced like the dickens when I walked around the room ... just like the AR-XA my friend Joe had back in the early 70s! No doubt it needs the marble base and some viscous feet!

It is a small world __ I find that except for an improved motor on-off switch switch and a push pull cable tone arm lifter control on your AR-XB, my AR-XA appears to be identical to your AR- XB__ top & bottom. Two quickie demo items i can suggest:

#1) Position the AR-XB carefully on its side after removing the entire platter Assembly & securing the tone arm to its anchor. Have Emma hold the cabinet steady while you slide a swatch of foam 1/4 to 1/2 inch thick, between the entire "T" sub chassis, and underside of the cabinet top. Make the foam slab thick enough to provide vertical motion damping, and especially lateral motion damping of the sub chassis.

# 2) Place the AR-XB on a two to three inch thick chunk of foam available from stores like Joe Ann, and temporarily, load ten to twenty pounds of books etc in a box on top the cover to simulate the marble base mass, being carefull to distribute the books to produce uniform thickness of of the foam compression under each corner of the AR. You will be amazed at this (:jawdrop:) Since this is just an temporary affair, i like to use the removable mass-box to facilitate setting the records to play.Ultimately, some form of laterally un-yielding constraint sufficiently compliant in a small tangential vertical mode like four pieces of nylon or thin guitar string attached between four internal sides of the cabinet and the "T" sub chassis may stabilize the lateral motion of the sub chassis. herki[quote/]

[hjames]

Sharing Herki's reference as a click-able link!

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?28182-4311B-woofer-constantly-quot-flapping-quot&p=285922&viewfull=1#post285922

[Don C]

If you're having trouble with skipping when walking in your listening room, you should try damping the suspension springs with foam rubber. You remove the spring adjuster and wrap foam rubber around the shaft, and push it up into the center of the spring. This helps a lot. But with joist suspended wood floors, a regular turntable without the spring suspension works better. These suspended tables are better for concrete floors.

[hjames]

If you're having trouble with skipping when walking in your listening room, you should try damping the suspension springs with foam rubber. You remove the spring adjuster and wrap foam rubber around the shaft, and push it up into the center of the spring. This helps a lot. But with joist suspended wood floors, a regular turntable without the spring suspension works better. These suspended tables are better for concrete floors.

Thanks Don!

I've got it up on the shelf for the week while work intrudes (grin) ...
and I have a Shure M97xE cartridge on order at Amazon just in case that funky Osawa MP-15 is part of the problem ...


I do plan to put some foam feet under the base and cushion it for now,
but I think damping the springs/T-bar with foam like you and Herki have
recommended is the long term solution for use in that room.

I don't really want to put a wall-mount in that room (probably the right answer for that room).

[hjames]

Slipped some shaved foam blocks under the corners of the TT cabinet as an experiment -
walked around a bit - tho it looks cheesy, the concept does seem to be helping.

If I do a nice version of this it may play in prime time here - SAF^.

Wrapped in black velvet, maybe I could sell them as the next Maplethorpe Audio product ...
could my retirement funds be that close ...?:applaud:

Thanks for the ideas everyone!

53840

[Mr. Widget]

Slipped some shaved foam blocks under the corners of the TT cabinet as an experiment -
walked around a bit - tho it looks cheesy, the concept does seem to be helping.

Wrapped in black velvet, maybe I could sell them as the next Maplethorpe Audio product ...
could my retirement funds be that close ...?:applaud::applaud: :rotfl: :applaud:


Widget

[speakerdave]

The AR turntable is very nice for the money--though I have no idea what they are selling for now. I ran across several of them back in the day and I believe every one, had the split table. The outer, heavy ring should be removed when moving the table around at all, and certainly for shipping. It really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. Yes, they were a problem on springy floors; I learned to walk past them without dislodging the stylus, but was less successful training roommates. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically--at a marvelously low price point--made them a real winner in my book. I sold my last one to use a Philips. I can't remember why. The Philips might have had arm lift. Were it not for my Thorens 125 MkII, I'd be looking for one, since my idea about vinyl is basic unobtrusive functionality. One day in the late sixties or early seventies I picked up a kid hitchhiking in Marin county. During the conversation it developed that he was on his way down to the post office to pick up his new AR turntable he'd ordered from some mail order house. He was pretty excited, pleased and joyful about it. That was hi fi for me, the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on, I guess.

[hjames]

Well, I'm not likely to re-engineer the T-bar sub-chassis to use 3 Konis instead of the coil springs it has now ...
and I'm not likely to rebuild the whole thing with the suspension locked to the top surface and put isolastic suspension for the feet.

Tho I do like the idea of the rubber band flotation platform,
in truth I already have a good TT in the other system, a Denon DP-45F.

Whatever it needs - it'll keep for the next week or so 'til I have a chance to play further.

I can certainly carve some new foam pyramids to go into the springs and replace the old shrunken dried foams of yore ...

I have considered sliding a (trimmed) marble floor tile into the bottom of the cabinet just above the sliding lower cover.
That would add some good mass to the cabinet!

[herki the cat]

The AR turntable is very nice. I believe every one had the split table. The outer heavy ring really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically, made them a real winner in my book. the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on.

Indeed, speakerdave, Linn deserves beauqoup credit for recognizing the quality of the "split table" and for bringing this gem to our attention. My apologies for having referred to the Linn as a "rip-off" of the AR's. That split platter is extremely well damped and immune to any mechanical excitation.

I inadvertently struck the edge of my work bench with the heavy outer ring detached from the platter base and the loud high-Q Ringing Resonance took more than 8 to10 seconds to slowly decay to inaudibility in contrast to dead quiet on the RA-T T.

I had assumed that RA XA / XB Turn Tables would be equipped with a typical powerful high-end drive motor, considering the mass of the RA-XA platter and a mind- set formed during many early years in Radio Broadcast Engineering where the T T is required to come up to full speed instantly after the announcer's introduction to the record.

Not so, I discovered this week that my RA is equipped with a tiny awesome H. A. Hayden Synchronous Drive Motor, rated at 1.50 Watts, that can't possibly contribute any mechanical noise to any AR Turn Table.

In 1986, I first heard the Linn on the early original huge Quad Electrostatic Speakers in stereo using the Linn "Itock Arm" equipped with extremely precision bearings that perform like "solid continuous metal" using my EMT XSD-15 Fine-Line Cartridge in a Koetso Head Shell which I had carried into the dealer's store.

I have never heard a Violin sound "So Authentic You are there & Just simply awesome!" you could hear the rosin on the bow.

Ca suffi com ca, herki[quote.

[speakerdave]

Indeed, speakerdave, Linn deserves beauqoup credit for recognizing the quality of the "split table" and for bringing this gem to our attention. My apologies for having referred to the Linn as a "rip-off" of the AR's. That split platter is extremely well damped and immune to any mechanical excitation.

I inadvertently struck the edge of my work bench with the heavy outer ring detached from the platter base and the loud high-Q Ringing Resonance took more than 8 to10 seconds to slowly decay to inaudibility in contrast to dead quiet on the RA-T T.

I had assumed that RA XA / XB Turn Tables would be equipped with a typical powerful high-end drive motor, considering the mass of the RA-XA platter and a mind- set formed during many early years in Radio Broadcast Engineering where the T T is required to come up to full speed instantly after the announcer's introduction to the record.

Not so, I discovered this week that my RA is equipped with a tiny awesome H. A. Hayden Synchronous Drive Motor, rated at 1.50 Watts, that can't possibly contribute any mechanical noise to any AR Turn Table.

In 1986, I first heard the Linn on the early original huge Quad Electrostatic Speakers in stereo using the Linn "Itock Arm" equipped with extremely precision bearings that perform like "solid continuous metal" using my EMT XSD-15 Fine-Line Cartridge in a Koetso Head Shell which I had carried into the dealer's store.

I have never heard a Violin sound "So Authentic You are there & Just simply awesome!" you could hear the rosin on the bow.

Ca suffi com ca, herki[quote.

Friend Herki,

When quoting part of what someone has said, it is standard formatting practice for accuracy, not to mention the common courtesy of not misrepresenting someone's statements, to indicate with ellipses where words have been left out, three dots where part of a sentence has been omitted and four when part or all of two or more sentences have not be included in the quotation.

Your version:
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by speakerdave http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=324067#post324067)
The AR turntable is very nice. I believe every one had the split table. The outer heavy ring really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically, made them a real winner in my book. the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on.


The original:


The AR turntable is very nice for the money--though I have no idea what they are selling for now. I ran across several of them back in the day and I believe every one, had the split table. The outer, heavy ring should be removed when moving the table around at all, and certainly for shipping. It really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved. Yes, they were a problem on springy floors; I learned to walk past them without dislodging the stylus, but was less successful training roommates. The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically--at a marvelously low price point--made them a real winner in my book. I sold my last one to use a Philips. I can't remember why. The Philips might have had arm lift. Were it not for my Thorens 125 MkII, I'd be looking for one, since my idea about vinyl is basic unobtrusive functionality. One day in the late sixties or early seventies I picked up a kid hitchhiking in Marin county. During the conversation it developed that he was on his way down to the post office to pick up his new AR turntable he'd ordered from some mail order house. He was pretty excited, pleased and joyful about it. That was hi fi for me, the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better. Still goes on, I guess.

Your version is above. Here is the proper and necessary way to punctuate it:


The AR turntable is very nice . . . . I believe every one had the split table. The outer, heavy ring . . . . really pounds that light spring suspension when being moved . . . . The elegant simplicity of these tables, both visually and mechanically . . . made them a real winner in my book . . . . the excitement of anticipating hearing the music better . . . . [s]till goes on . . . .

This makes it obvious that there have been extensive deletions and that the quoter has gone through and selected a part of the words and omitted an unknown number. With this fact fairly represented the sense of the selection will be attributed to the quoter and not the quoted, necessarily. I'm not saying you misrepresented me in this instance, but it was a bit jarring to me to see my words, attributed to me, being highly modified with no indication of the quoter's role in the shaping of the final form. Please learn and follow this practice.

Thanks,

David

[hjames]

Just an FYI - I pulled the TT down off the cabinet, tied down the tonearm, flipped it over, and slid off the bottom.
While in there I pulled off the locknuts and stuffed some extra foam into the suspension springs, then reassembled.

I did note there is no clearance between the bearing wells and the bottom cover -
that kills my plan to slip a slate floor tile in there for added mass.

Anyway, I flipped it back over and put it in place - popped a spirit level on the top plate
and slipped some thin foam under the front edge of the base to level it.

Pulled out and played old vinyl - The Doors ...
seems to be immune to floor walking now,
even with that old Osawa cart ...

I do have an Audio Technica 120E cart on the way (a cyber Monday deal), plus a small digital scale ...
also some Parts Express RCA plugs to install on the back of the plinth so I can replace those
original cheap interconnects with a pair of the (philips) Seawolf Specials ...

Time will tell!

[SEAWOLF97]

Friend Herki,

When quoting part of what someone has said, it is standard formatting practice for accuracy, not to mention the common courtesy of not misrepresenting someone's statements, to indicate with ellipses where words have been left out, three dots where part of a sentence has been omitted and four when part or all of two or more sentences have not be included in the quotation
....

This makes it obvious that there have been extensive deletions and that the quoter has gone through and selected a part of the words and omitted an unknown number. With this fact fairly represented the sense of the selection will be attributed to the quoter and not the quoted, necessarily. I'm not saying you misrepresented me in this instance, but it was a bit jarring to me to see my words, attributed to me, being highly modified with no indication of the quoter's role in the shaping of the final form. Please learn and follow this practice.

Thanks,

David

Good advise Dave, I too have been guilty of mangled quotes in the past.

One other thing, mebbe a mod could move off all posts from #2 on ..to
a new thread in a correct forum. ?

[hjames]

Sorry Tom - didn't mean to run with this all over your thread.
Good luck with your sale (grin) ... nice looking table!



Good advise Dave, I too have been guilty of mangled quotes in the past.

One other thing, mebbe a mod could move off all posts from #2 on ..to
a new thread in a correct forum. ?

[hjames]

the sale of course was 4 years ago ...as for nice looking, I wouldn't use one of those , I have much better TT's ( 4 active ones in the house) and the AR TT was a cheap ( $78 ?? as I remember) product to start out with and just mid-fi even when brand new.

All my TT's are DD , I don't buy into the "belt drive is better" line and the AR has a rather primitive arm to boot.



Please don't respond with a point by point rebuttal , those are just my own personal opinions.

Sure it's long gone - I remember when you posted the ad (I've been here for the whole conversation).

I wouldn't dream of a rebuttal for ya - this was Emma's college TT I'm sorting out, never bought an AR myself!
My high school friend had an AR-XA - but I wound up with a Thorens with an SME arm way back then ...
and I got rid of that back in the early 80s ...

As we've discussed before, my main table is the Denon DP-45F I bought new,
but I'm mostly a fan of SACDs and those smaller size discs anyway ... :applaud:

[SEAWOLF97]

I too have a Denon DP-45F ..mine has a DL-160 high o/p MC cart and its a very good rig....it impressed me enough that I then found a DP-60L , which is about 2-3 quality levels higher..its fitted with the Shure V-15 V from Mr.W ...a real keeper

Also a Pioneer PL-530 with a V-15 T3 and a Technics SL-M2 with a Grado. I've put a lot of time and effort into making these 4 run as well as they can, and yesteryears tables get moved off to CL. I think the table upgrading is over at this point, unless a higher quality comes along at a screaming great price.

The prettier Denons are out in the LR and the other 2 are daily drivers in my BR office.

Old AR TT's are not on my radar as there are so many better competitors in the same price range.


My son was here visiting from Chicago last week ... he gathered up all his old CD's and MM'ed them home to trade them in on vinyl .... Lp's are VERY "IN" for the 30ish Hipster crowd, and he's really enjoying records.

I passed abt 60 of my dupe records to him ...there is just a great vibe when your kids value and use your audio "pass ons"

[hjames]

53896

Got some chassis RCA connectors from parts express to do a connector upgrade I had seen on John's Weather page -
http://johnsweather.com/Turntable.html

The AR-XB originally brought the tone arm's phono wires out to solder points on a terminal strip,
and had crimp on connectors at the ends of the original interconnect cables.
It made sense to get rid of the tarnished old crimp-ons and make all the internal connections clean solder joints.
Once I had drilled and mounted the RCA connectors on the back of the base,
I used a spare pair of the philips interconnects (thanks Tom!)
to replace the tired old cheap ones AR had originally used.

Still waiting for the digital scale before I mount up the new Audio Technica cart.

[herki the cat]

QUOTE=SEAWOLF97;196135]One of the nicest classic AR turntables that you will find...plays super (2 speeds)..includes good dustcover and EMPIRE 66 QE/X cart/needle. This has the cueing that the XA model didn't have...PM me if intereested.for shipping estimate, just calc 15 pounds from 97233/also have a second one that needs cleaning and has no arm if anyone is interested... [/QUOTE]


It it is not common knowledge that "the AR Turntable platter is identical to the fantastic 'Linn Turntable Platter." The Linn turntable also uses a tiny clock motor, & a belt drive plus a very efficient simple chassis suspension. This AR platter is dead quite & does not ring like a bell, because it is a "two-component platter design mounted on the main shaft supporting a 6 inch diameter aluminum inner platter with a 1/4 inch step outer-diameter coupled to a 12 inch diameter outer platter with a matching 6 inch hole completing the 12 inch platter design copied from the AR Turntable. __ Take the mat of the AR platter to see this construction.

The word in RCA Camden stated by the late genius, Mr. Al. Witchy __Co-inventor of the famous "Perry Como RCA Bk-10 Microphone," and the post WW-2 Photophone Permanent Magnet 3 inch Phenolic High Frequency Horn Drivers superseding RCA's MI-1428 HF Driver was, quote: "you achieve very llttle damping by coating metal horns etc, with tar and felt materials. You need a gap, however thin, in metal structures to kill the metal ringing like a bell."

Perry Como had a very soft voice requiring an ultra directional microphone __ the RCA-BK-10 created for Perry__ which could be positioned back out of view of the TV Studio cameras. ...herki [QUOTE/]

[SEAWOLF97]

its funny that this thread was restarted on the same day that I sold my latest AR-Xb ...it has already
been overhauled and is back up on CL again ..the guy did a lot of work for only a little profit.

http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/ele/2996512131.html

I did grab a rather cheesy Thorens TD-190 that is a 3 speed and has a good
Ortofon OM-78 (yup, a 78 rpm mono cart)