Best JBL 15" midrange advice needed

[more10]

I picked up this PA. It is from around 1990. I don't believe that they are JBL made, there are no JBL logos on them. Boxes made of plywood, very nicely built. I cannot find any JBL built speaker (top boxes) with these components.

5311053111

15" drivers in 4530 is 2226HPL.

I believe the top cabinets are also 2226HPL. These are ported. Midrange is 2370 horns (probably 2426 driver). 2405 tweeter. Top boxes are biamped, a passive filter is used between tweeter and horn.

I like the top boxes too much to cannibalize them. But I want to swap the 15" drivers in order to improve the midrange. And put 2420 with alu diaphragms on the horn.

Any advice on which 15" to look for is appreciated.

[Lee in Montreal]

Congratulation on your purchase. Perhaps a 12" 2206 would improve midrange (150-1000Hz) over the 2226...

BTW If you can try a 2225 in those scoop instead of the 2226, you will probably find a bit more low bass. The 2226 is more of a bass reflex driver.

[1audiohack]

What is it you don't like about the current midrange sound or performance that you would like another driver to do better? What is the lowest and highest frequency the 15" midrange is to play? Do you employ EQ? How much power must it safely handle? How many pancakes does it take to shingle a dog house and just how many questions can one guy ask?!? :^)

[more10]

What is it you don't like about the current midrange sound or performance that you would like another driver to do better?
It's not that I don't like it. But I believe that there is a better driver for midrange. E130 maybe? Light cone.

What is the lowest and highest frequency the 15" midrange is to play? Going from about 100Hz to 1500 Hz.

Do you employ EQ? Not yet.

How much power must it safely handle? Any JBL 15" driver will handle the power I need.

How many pancakes does it take to shingle a dog househttp://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_pancakes_does_it_take_to_shingle_a_dog_ho use

and just how many questions can one guy ask?!? :^):dont-know:

[more10]

Congratulation on your purchase. Perhaps a 12" 2206 would improve midrange (150-1000Hz) over the 2226...

BTW If you can try a 2225 in those scoop instead of the 2226, you will probably find a bit more low bass. The 2226 is more of a bass reflex driver.

Thanks. I have considered using a 12", but then I will have to modify the box.

If I get my hands on a pair of 2225 I will certainly use them. Until then I will use the 2226 since they are quite close, only QMS differs much, 5 for 2226 and 2.5 for 2225.

[1audiohack]

For me without EQ it would be E130's probably with felt dustcaps rather than aluminum. With EQ it would be 2220's however as a direct radiator it has a rapidly rising response but I love their sound, response corrected.

The doghouse thing was bad humor suggesting for me, more information was required.

All the best.

[subwoof]

Well the 2370 horn driver is a 2426 ( one inch ) so a tweeter above it isn't really needed unless you need to sterilize teenage bats...:) I suggest trying that and maybe selling the babycheeks to finance other items. The box component is the 4725A without the tweet.

Agreed on the 2225 for the scoop ( 4530 ) but they are prone to magnet damage when improperly packed by 99% of the ebay community and are getting pretty old. Stick with the 2226.

The 2220 might be the best mid BUT I suggest keeping the 2226 and running the top boxes down to 30 and use a 30-120hz filter on the scoops. This way you can dial them in just enough to help the "punch" and the 120hz point will show up as a center freq on the graphic to deal with the combined output peak..

BTW - looks a lot like my PA's from 1981-86

[more10]

For me without EQ it would be E130's probably with felt dustcaps rather than aluminum. With EQ it would be 2220's however as a direct radiator it has a rapidly rising response but I love their sound, response corrected.

The doghouse thing was bad humor suggesting for me, more information was required.

All the best.

Since I own a pair of 2220 I'll use them with an EQ. An EQ is easier to get than E130 here. An EQ will take care of the 150 Hz dip of the 4530 as well as baffle step. Thanks for advice.

The doghouse thing was quite funny now that i get it :o:

[more10]

Well the 2370 horn driver is a 2426 ( one inch ) so a tweeter above it isn't really needed unless you need to sterilize teenage bats...:) I suggest trying that and maybe selling the babycheeks to finance other items.

Maybe they put in the 2405 for better dispersion? The tweet puzzels me a bit.

The system has been used in a theatre.

[more10]

Opened up the top box yesterday. It had 2227HPL, 2420 with titanium dia, and 2405 altnico.

Far better than I had expected. 2227 is basically unobtainable over here. I has been doing midrange duty, mostly voices, for the last 20 years. It is barely broken in :-).

Filter between 2405 and 2420 was 6 db, marked Septon.

Septon imports JBL pro stuff to Sweden. The boxes are most probably built by them.

[Lee in Montreal]

Septon imports JBL pro stuff to Sweden. The boxes are most probably built by them.

I looked at your pictures and the 4530 are definitely not JBL-built. From the exterior, it is clear that while it follows certain aspects of the original aspects like the lower pedesta (even though not done like a JBL enclosure), it is missing the "reinforcement strip" on the edge at the front. Something you can probably easily modify to strengthen the sides and keep them from vibrating.

[1audiohack]

2227's are virtually unobtainable over here too, I search still.

I'm glad you got what you wanted!

[baldrick]

Far better than I had expected. 2227 is basically unobtainable over here. I has been doing midrange duty, mostly voices, for the last 20 years. It is barely broken in :-).


I'm pretty sure they are not that old since I belice the 2227 was introduced in the late 90s, (96-97 I gues)


2227's are virtually unobtainable over here too, I search still.

I'm glad you got what you wanted!

Too bad you don't live here... I have 4 of them for sale :blink:

[pos]

Too bad you don't live here... I have 4 of them for sale :blink:I think member caladois is looking for a pair in france

[cosmos]

Maybe I missed it somewhere in the thread, but is this going to be used for Home HiFi or PA use?

I am astounded the E145 has not been mentioned.. Perhaps it's just me, but it makes magical midrange...

[more10]

The E145 is a good candidate, but the thickness of the rim of the basket might be a problem. I will certainly try since I have a pair :-).

[ivica]

The E145 is a good candidate, but the thickness of the rim of the basket might be a problem. I will certainly try since I have a pair :-).
Depending of the application, but large-cone driver has tendency for "beaming", on one side, and for 2420 to operate too "low" (I guess lower then 1000~1200Hz) is not the best solution. My be 10inch driver ( 2123 ) is good candidate. I can understand that in such occasion some "wood-work" has to be done.



6dB network for 2405 is may be dangerous,
look at JBL 2405 technical recommendation crossover: 0ver 7kHz, with -12dB/octave minimum
http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/2405.pdf

[more10]

I will not rebuild these cabinets. They are for party duty :-). I just want them to sound as good as possible with a small effort. I will most probably remove the 2405 since it is too precious to risk in a party environment.

[Lee in Montreal]

I am currently in the same bandwagon as you. I have some 4520 bass bins that I want to cut at 100Hz, just before the dip/cancellation of 120Hz. I will probably use a pair of 15" 2225 and build (or buy used) a pair of Altec 816 to use from 100Hz to 1Khz, where I will crossover to a 2397/2441 and to 2405 at 8KHz.

53611

[more10]

Now I have assembled the stack. 2227H in the scoops and 2220H in the tops. Radian diaphragms in the 2420 drivers on the 2370 horns. I swapped the alnico 2405 for ferrite.

Swapping the jbl 553 filter for a dbx 234XL improved the sound. I am using a DBX 2231 EQ for the first time. The scoops are driven by a QSC mx3000a, 2220 by a LAB 1000 and the 2420/2405 by a LAB 300.

I am very happy with the sound of the 2220H, they didn't need much EQ at all. Soundstage is wide and voices sound very dynamic.

The listening room is a bit too small for the scoops, but at high listening volumes they started kicking :-). First I tried crossing them over at 300Hz, but that didn't good at all. 170 Hz sounded much better. The amplifier has a "stepped linear" output stage which I suspect doesn't sound good at low listening levels, I'll swap it for a LAB 1500.

The 2370 horns needed some EQing as I had expected. They sounded nice with the 2420, but not at all close large format horns.

A friend of mine helped me with the tuning. He has a magic touch. What impressed me most of all is that he very quickly made adjustments to the EQ when I swapped records, making the new record sound good. He likes adjusting things. I usually just swap records when they don't sound good. Having an EQ gives you the opportunity to correct mistakes made by the mixing engineer :-).

I am looking forward listening on these in a properly sized room!

[more10]

I got my hands on a pair of K130. They have lighter cones than 2220H, in theory they should sound better than 2220H in midrange. Now I have tried them and I must say I am a bit dissapointed. They sound darker than the 2220. Also I got irritating S-sounds on some recordings. I know its an instrument speaker, but I had to try. Anyone got an explanation for them sounding murky? Remag needed? One is reconed I believe.

I use the cannon (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33531-My-30-80-Hz-2226-quot-horn-quot&highlight=) below 70 Hz with a Rane AD22B delaying the rest of the system about 9 feet. Bass is very good!

[1audiohack]

2220's are just plain hard to beat above 1-200Hz, still one of my favorites. :^)

[maxserg]

I approve the use of E or K-130 for 15 inchers, with felt duscaps! Or EV SRO-15:D

[ivica]

I got my hands on a pair of K130. They have lighter cones than 2220H, in theory they should sound better than 2220H in midrange. Now I have tried them and I must say I am a bit disappointing. They sound darker than the 2220. Also I got irritating S-sounds on some recordings. I know its an instrument speaker, but I had to try. Anyone got an explanation for them sounding murky? Remag needed? One is reconed I believe.

I use the cannon (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33531-My-30-80-Hz-2226-quot-horn-quot&highlight=) below 70 Hz with a Rane AD22B delaying the rest of the system about 9 feet. Bass is very good!

May be such "S-sound" mentioned with K130 is expectable. I have done some measurements with two K110 drivers and it is visible on the response I have attached, and in the 4kHz to 5kHz region , there is a kid of peek.

[more10]

Thanks for your input. Ivica, I am crossing over to 2420/2370 at 1,4 kHz at 24 dB, I don´t believe that peaks at 5 k will be heard.

I have talked to a friend of mine about cone shape. I believe that K130 cones are straight, but 2220H are curved. Straight cones should exhibit more cone flex than curved cones. Could this be the reason for the dark sound?

Tomorrow I will swap the K130 for 2220A anyways. :-)

[jerv]

Hi Mårten!

The E130 has indeed a curvlinear cone, like the 2220.
I don't know about the K130 though, but would imagine they are similar.

E130 has a pronounced resonance (up 10dB) at about 2kHz.
This is definitely audible with a 1,4 kHz crossover.

For home use, the aluminum dust cap can be cut out, and changed to a felt one. This dampens the resonance peak a great deal.

[Ear4life]

Hey guys

The question of finding the best midrange is difficult! It´s always a matter of taste, but harmonics is usually something we can agree on. A guy I know has just replaced his 2220 with i pair of E140 for the low midrange. Mainly because he wanted to try a heavier cone. Well the 2220 is a very good midrange driver. The E140 is more laid back and sweet. for the sub/bass he´s using two 2240´s, and he found out that the E140 connects better to the 2240 than the 2220. I think it has a lot to do with the application and taste. Personally i think there are some good JBL drivers for midrange, it often depends on the crossing area. I like the good old 2226 because of it´s attack and ability to do upper bass, compared to the 2220.

Martin

[more10]

Thanks for your input. Now I am using the alnico 2220, and I am very happy with them. I use them from 170 Hz to 1,4 kHz in a large ported box (have no clue to tuning freq).


I don't know about the K130 though, but would imagine they are similar.

They are cuvlinear as well, I was mistaken.