PDA

View Full Version : I need a pre-amp Not too expensive



still4given
08-27-2004, 07:49 AM
I'm thinking about getting a pre-amp for my studio. I've been using a mixer but would like something a little better sounding.
A friend suggested looking at the Dynaco Pas-2. He said they aren't much to look at but that they sound wonderful. Have any of you had much experience with them? Are there some others you would suggest that may be better for around the same dough?

I'm running a Hafler amp and 4425's and 4412's on a switch.

Thanks, Terry

PSS AUDIO
08-27-2004, 08:35 AM
Terry,

If you just have a CD player, why not linking it directly to the amp?

It will be the best pre amp!

still4given
08-27-2004, 09:35 AM
Not just a CD. This will be to run my DAW through as well as my Tascam deck DAT player and the like. Mainly used for monitoring during mixing and mastering.

I'd like something that is pretty true but musical.

Blessings, Terry

Figge
08-27-2004, 09:42 AM
have fun bidding!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=14974&item=5716313603&rd=1



regards fredrik

still4given
08-27-2004, 10:09 AM
Hey Frigge,

Thanks for the link. Do you think the Crown is a better sounding unit than a Dynaco PAS2?

It certainly seems to be in the right price range. :D

Thanks, Terry

Zilch
08-27-2004, 10:15 AM
Originally posted by still4given
I'm thinking about getting a pre-amp for my studio. I've been using a mixer but would like something a little better sounding.


HUH? You're using a Mackie 1604VLZ pro mixer as your present preamp, in combination with a buncha pro rack gear, and you expect you might improve on that with an unbalanced consumer preamp?

Only upgrade I would be considering would be digital.

Must be something I'm not appreciating here. :confused:

Figge
08-27-2004, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by still4given
Hey Frigge,

Thanks for the link. Do you think the Crown is a better sounding unit than a Dynaco PAS2?

It certainly seems to be in the right price range. :D

Thanks, Terry


i have no experience with Dynaco PAS2. but i have heard the crown on one or two occations...and liked it very much! i dont think uŽll find any better at the price.

if the seller was in sweden iŽd buy it!

u only have 2 hours to make up your mind :)

still4given
08-27-2004, 10:55 AM
Hi Zilch,

Thanks for the response but I'm a little confused with what you are saying. First of all I don't have a 1604VLZ Pro, it's just a VLZ. Secondly, the amp I'm using at present is a Hafler TA-1600 and it's not ballanced, neither is my BX63 crossover. My Carvin is but since both amps are down line from the BX63 I don't see how that matters much anyway. I use a Technics VU-660 integrated amp for some stuff as well and it sounds better than the Mackie to my ears. I was under the impression that the Dynaco was a reall good sounding pre. My friend, who recommended it, makes his living providing audio equipment for the all the execs here at Universal Music Group, where I work. He didn't recomend it over some other high priced gear, but he think they sound really good.
I know a lot of you guys have stellar systems so that's why I asked here. I am just getting started putting this stuff together and want to make good use of the money I spend. That's why I asked for recommendations. If the Crown that was recommendedis not something I'll want to keep and use, I don't want waste time and money.

Are you guys all running ballanced gear? If so, I'll look in that direction then. Like I said, I just want to make good purchases.

Thanks, Terry

Zilch
08-27-2004, 10:58 AM
Originally posted by boputnam
Then again, if comparing to a 1604-VLZ....

SO, I should trash my lowly 1202-VLZ? ;)

Hmmmmm. Adcom, huh?

Actually, my "listening " stuff is separate, using Sony digital processors, single-ended, into balanced pro amps, typically, i.e., "hybrid." Seems lotsa forum users are mixing gear like that.

Not that I do THAT much listening.

Or recording, either, for that matter....

Why, why, WHY??? :banghead:

Figge
08-27-2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by still4given


1. Are you guys all running ballanced gear?
2. I just want to make good purchases.

Thanks, Terry


1. im not into balanced!
2. well then stay away from really overpriced "audiophile" equipment!

bet youŽll love the crown though...

Zilch
08-27-2004, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Figge
2. well then stay away from really overpriced "audiophile" equipment!

We default into balanced gear purchasing pro quality power amps in lieu of them "audiophiles" at three or four times the price. I look inside and find the same output devices, power transformers, construction techniques, etc. in both.

[No offense to Yuri, I hope....]

still4given
08-27-2004, 11:24 AM
On the recording side of my DAW, everything is balanced. I use a Delta 1010 that has 8 balanced ins and 8 balanced outs and an SPDIF digital I/O.

For my PA system, everything stays balanced all the way to my JBL Eons. There is a lot of stuff that can cause interference in a live situation. I really didn't think it would matter that much for the monitoring side in my studio. All cable runs are very short.

Anyway, I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I'm just trying to make my new JBLs sound as good as I can on my budget. I appreciate all of the suggestions you guys have offered. I'll keep my eye on that Crown. That's a name that has always represented quality to me. I’m still open to other suggestions as well. :D

Blessings, Terry

jblnut
08-27-2004, 01:12 PM
I had a Carver C1 which I bought on ebay for about $100. It was a very clean and quiet preamp (except the Moving Coil input) with lots of inputs and flexibility. I'd highly recommend it - you can always put it back on ebay for $100 if you don't like it.

The Yamaha C80/C85 are excellent as well...

I'm assuming you don't want to spend a lot - if you do let me know and I'll make some more expensive recommendations.

jblnut

still4given
08-27-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by jblnut
I had a Carver C1 which I bought on ebay for about $100. It was a very clean and quiet preamp (except the Moving Coil input) with lots of inputs and flexibility. I'd highly recommend it - you can always put it back on ebay for $100 if you don't like it.

The Yamaha C80/C85 are excellent as well...

I'm assuming you don't want to spend a lot - if you do let me know and I'll make some more expensive recommendations.

jblnut

Thanks, I'll look into those Carvers and the Yamaha. You're right, I don't want to spend too much if I don't have to. I just missed that Crown listed above. It went from $76 to $117 in the last 10 seconds. :eek:

Thanks again, Terry

speakerdave
08-27-2004, 01:32 PM
I liked the PAS 2, but then I liked old tube stuff. It's a strong candidate for upgrades of which there have been many described in DIY articles over the years. I don't think it's really a prospect for you because it likes a high-impedance tube amp style load (100k plus). When Dynaco started making solid state amps they modified their then-current PAS 3 to be used with SS amps and called it the PAS 3X. I don't know what the differences are.

David

Ken Pachkowsky
08-27-2004, 06:09 PM
One of these will still out perform pre-amps I have tried that are 1500 bucks plus!

They go on Ebay for 150 to 300 plus depending on condition.

Ken

Figge
08-27-2004, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by still4given
I just missed that Crown listed above. It went from $76 to $117 in the last 10 seconds.


:scold: i knew u were gonna blew it! :)
that was a good deal that went down in front of your eyes my friend!

GordonW
08-27-2004, 10:00 PM
I've personally listened to the Apt Holman, many different Crowns, the Carver C1, many different Dynaco preampse (PAS2, PAS3, PAT4, etc)... and IMHO, the NAD C160 or C162 is better than any of those. Just plain NEUTRAL. No muss, no fuss. Great low level detail, COMPLETE absence of hiss and noise.

Not bad for a PRESENT RETAIL NEW price of only $600... including remote control!

BTW, disclaimer: I work for a NAD dealer... this is how I got to listen to these as extensively as I have. I am NOT on any sort of sales commission, though (I'm the Service manager)...

Regards,
Gordon.

still4given
08-28-2004, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by GordonW
I've personally listened to the Apt Holman, many different Crowns, the Carver C1, many different Dynaco preampse (PAS2, PAS3, PAT4, etc)... and IMHO, the NAD C160 or C162 is better than any of those. Just plain NEUTRAL. No muss, no fuss. Great low level detail, COMPLETE absence of hiss and noise.

Not bad for a PRESENT RETAIL NEW price of only $600... including remote control!

BTW, disclaimer: I work for a NAD dealer... this is how I got to listen to these as extensively as I have. I am NOT on any sort of sales commission, though (I'm the Service manager)...

Regards,
Gordon.

Yeah, well how about older NAD stuff like this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5716439895&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT) ?

Thanks, Terry

Mr. Widget
08-28-2004, 08:49 AM
Personally I wouldn't buy used NAD gear as they are generally made with fairly inexpensive components to keep their bang for the buck quotient high. Lesser components tend to age less gracefully than the mil spec variety.

The funny thing is that really recognizable mass produced gear like NAD, Pioneer, etc. tend to maintain a used value that exceeds their worth while many higher quality pieces that are less well known can frequently be real bargains.

My personal favorite used preamp bargain is the PS Audio model 4.5, but their other models are also very good. They are usually available in the sub $200 price point and are equipped with an excellent phono stage that will also handle low output moving coils. In passive mode they really disappear.

I have also seen older Threshold models go for sub $300 prices and they are exceptionally well built, extremely quiet, and many sound as good as any of today's top dollar models.

Widget

jblnut
08-28-2004, 11:20 AM
I looked into the Threshold and Forte gear when I was preamp shopping. I agree that the ones you find for $200-300 on the bay appear to be solidly constructed and of excellent quality. However, because they were made for the "high end" market, many of them lack any kind of tone control. They are also limited in the number of inputs and tape dubbing capability as well.

I also saw that most of the APT Holman units for sale at the time had either just been fixed or needed to be fixed. Might have just been a coincidence but it spooked me away from them.

The best thing to do (no matter what you choose) is to take your time and watch ebay for a while. Don't pay too much - that way you can always put it back up for sale and not loose much (if anything) .

jblnut

Mr. Widget
08-28-2004, 11:42 AM
Never thought about that. I haven't used a preamp with tone controls since 1980. I just recently got one with a remote (still no tone controls). I guess you need to decide what you want in a preamp. I look to the straight wire with gain (actually with a CD even the gain is optional) school, but I can understand why other features might appeal to some. Unfortunately all of the equipment I have owned, McIntosh included, seem to degrade audio quality as the functionality goes up.:(

Widget

still4given
08-28-2004, 01:49 PM
I sure appreciate you guys putting in the effort to help me here. I shouldn't need any tone controls for what I'm doing. For mixing and mastering I want as true a sound as I can get. Any EQ will be added in the software so it affects the mixdown. I may see about a good graphic EQ if I really need it to tune my room but I would like to stay away from that if possible.

I'll be watching for the models you guys have recommended and see if I can get a good deal on one or two of them. (I like to have at least a couple of sources to listen through, just to keep my ears honest) :D

Any other models you guys think of, please feel free to list them.

Blessings, Terry

boputnam
08-28-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by still4given
I may see about a good graphic EQ if I really need it to tune my room but I would like to stay away from that if possible. Not possible, unless you're in a nearly anechoic chamber. ;) If you're lucky it may not need much, but everywhere else a "little dab 'll do ya"...

GordonW
08-28-2004, 11:12 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Widget
Personally I wouldn't buy used NAD gear as they are generally made with fairly inexpensive components to keep their bang for the buck quotient high. Lesser components tend to age less gracefully than the mil spec variety.



I don't find that to be true, for the NAD amps and preamps.

In fact, in most of the NAD gear, the transistors, capacitors and resistors are oftentimes SUPERIOR quality to that in some of the "ultra high end" stuff, from a build and reliability standpoint. The only place NAD gear tends to suffer, is sometimes with lightbulbs and mechanical components... the deal is, NAD engineers are SO fixated on sound quality for the money, that while they're willing to put in EVERYTHING needed for the components on the circuit boards to be bulletproof, they tend to "economize" on the chassis, lightbulbs and such. Fortunately, a preamp really doesn't HAVE any mechanical stuff, besides switches and controls... which generally seem to age pretty well on NAD gear. A shot of DeOxit after 15-20 years, is all they seem to need...

Now, I wouldn't really touch a 10+ year old NAD CD player or cassette deck, for the mechanical issues stated above... but there's just WAY TOO MANY old NAD amps- even including scads of the ORIGINAL 3020 integrated amps from 1978-1980- that are STILL working properly (and which STILL sound GOOD), for there to really be any demonstrable endemic problem with those...

Regards,
Gordon.

Mr. Widget
08-28-2004, 11:42 PM
I must admit after saying that about NAD gear's longevity, I am still running a 1020 preamp. It is the preamp section of the original 3020 that put NAD on the map. I bought this one new in the late 70's and it has been used most of the time since. It has been run 24/7 for the last 8 years in my shop and with the exception of the power switch which now only works with coaxing (hence the 24/7) a bit of spray contact cleaner every few years and the unit is still working. It is now relegated to NPR duty, but it would probably sound reasonably fine if it were pulled from the shop and put into a room that isn't frequently ringing with saws etc. When new it was blown out of the water by my Threshold though and the phono section was really only so-so.

All that being the case, I have an older Marantz receiver and Kenwood integrated that also are in regular duty and still surprise me. (That they still work, not by being exemplars of elite audio resolution.)

My point about the NAD gear was that they do cut corners and cheap caps for example tend to die sooner than expensive ones. Since keeping this gear running is Gordon's Biz, I will defer to his greater experience. :yes:

Widget

Mike Bates
08-29-2004, 11:28 AM
A PAS2 or 3/3X with the Curcio upgrade boards is about as good as it gets.

http://www.curcioaudio.com/pasdes_3.htm

:)

still4given
09-03-2004, 09:28 AM
Well I bought this Bryston 0.4B preamp (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=5718105772&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT).

I will let you know how I like it once I receive it and have a chance to give it a run through.

Blessings, Terry

still4given
09-21-2004, 05:47 PM
Well I'm back to report. While waiting for the Bryston I also scored a Hafler DH-200. So now, I running the bryston into the BX64 and then into the DH-200 for my 4412's and my Carvin DCM600 into the B360. That 2235 still pops if I drive it too hard but if not this setup just sound great! I have a speaker switch installed right after the DH200 and am feeding my 4412's, Event 20/20 nearfields and a pair of Yamaha NS1000's. While all three sound different, they all sound great. It's really letting me listen to my mixes through different but yet good sounding sets. I'm pretty happy right now.

Oh, I won a Dynaco PAS2 a couple of days ago, so I'll let you know how that sounds once I get it.

This Bryston sounds very true. Only draw back is that it doesn't have a phono stage in it. I'm hoping to use the Dynaco for that.

Blessings, Terry

hotroady
05-01-2008, 09:33 PM
I'm fortunate to live about 5 miles from Frank Van Alstines'. I auditioned an Pat 5 Van Alstine modded pre amp and Ultimate 70 Dynakit. I purchased both. Very happy with this combo! Frank bench tested everything, while I waited..it was spot on! He has used stuff that people trade up with(low on used inventory at the moment) Nice to have 1 year warrantory. Check out Audio by Alstine site. He has upgrades for PAS 2,3 etc.