Tannoy or Lowther???

[Cooljjay]

I need help making a decision. I have in my system now a pair of Lowther PM6C speakers in the factory acousta enclosures. Today I just bought a pair of Tannoy 15" Gold monitors...I am trying to decided if I should keep my lowthers in my system or replace them with the tannoy?? I can't decide...

[stephane RAME]

Hi,
All sold to buy JBL. :D:D:D
You are on the right website. ;):p
Stéphane

[Cooljjay]

Hi,
All sold to buy JBL. :D:D:D
You are on the right website. ;):p
Stéphane

hehe I knew it was just a matter of time :p I don't think I could sell them for enough to buy a pair of Hartsfield...so I have to make a decision on these 2. :D

[Mr. Widget]

I need help making a decision. I have in my system now a pair of Lowther PM6C speakers in the factory acousta enclosures. Today I just bought a pair of Tannoy 15" Gold monitors...I am trying to decided if I should keep my lowthers in my system or replace them with the tannoy?? I can't decide...So you have listened to both speakers, have no preference, and are hoping something that some stranger on the internet says will help you make up your mind? :blink:

FWIW: I would go with the Tannoys, but I would also keep looking. Neither of those systems would ever satisfy me. That said, we probably have very different musical goals. I find Lowthers unpleasant more often than not.


Widget

[Cooljjay]

So you have listened to both speakers, have no preference, and are hoping something that some stranger on the internet says will help you make up your mind? :blink:

FWIW: I would go with the Tannoys, but I would also keep looking. Neither of those systems would ever satisfy me. That said, we probably have very different musical goals. I find Lowthers unpleasant more often than not.


Widget

Exactly :p

I like the lowther's clean sound but they do lack on the lows. I haven't listed to the tannoys really good yet, but what I got out of the little time I was listening to them, is that they don't lack on the lows. I think I am going to try the tannoy for now. I think they will satisfy me for now. Of couse something bigger and better will always come along.

[Ducatista47]

Exactly :p

I like the lowther's clean sound but they do lack on the lows. I haven't listed to the tannoys really good yet, but what I got out of the little time I was listening to them, is that they don't lack on the lows. I think I am going to try the tannoy for now. I think they will satisfy me for now. Of couse something bigger and better will always come along.
It has, and is not far from you. In the wilds of New Mexico: http://www.hammerdynamics.com/ Well, bigger than Lowthers anyway. Better, I think so.

Part one would be to buy this kit and build enclosures for them. They will beat the pants off almost every Lowther or Tannoy. Or Zu, for that matter. I can't say about the Wesmtinster, haven't heard it, but I know it is beyond pricey.

Part two, the ultimate upgrade, buy a FirstWatt F2 JFET power amp, $1895. It will provide any missing bass and level the response with almost any efficient full range/single driver. Some Tannoys are not very efficient, of course. The Hammer Dynamics don't need nearly as much help there, but still a great upgrade for full range speakers over any other amp on the planet.

In my semi informed opinion, some Fostex products will better Lowther speakers at a fraction of the price. Older Omega speakers are finished boxes, designed and built extremely well, that will give you the Fostex experience. But the Hammer Dynamics will sound best to most listeners.

If you go down this road, I can help you figure it all out from personal experience.

Clark

[macaroonie]

Lowther went out of business because ----------------- they wern't that good. Tannoy continue to thrive because ------------------- they are good. Keep the Tannoys and work at getting the best out of them. Plenty of info about that on the web.
Our very good friend in Denmark Troelsgravesen has some useful input -- use google to get his website.
Hey you are in Vallejo , I worked for Stereo Showcase at one time up in Sac. Small world.

[Steve Schell]

Macaroonie, I hadn't heard that Lowther was out of business. These folks would also likely be surprised to hear this:

http://www.lowtherloudspeakers.com/homeindex.html

[4313B]

Macaroonie, I hadn't heard that Lowther was out of business. These folks would also likely be surprised to hear this:

http://www.lowtherloudspeakers.com/homeindex.html

Woah! Blocked by the firewall! Yep, definitely out of business. :p

[macaroonie]

Steve from memory Lowther went TU in the early seventies. The current business must be a phoenix. No disrespect to the folks concerned. I worked over here in the hi fi industry from 1972 for about twenty years and not once did I ever encounter Lowther as a functioning entity nor see them at a trade show or anything. No reps no product nada.
I have heard the old PM6 on a few occasions and was underwhelmed . Just my take on history YMMV

[richluvsound]

I have heard Lowther a few times :( if all a listened to was Gregorian Chants I'm sure I could be happy
until someone put a pair of Golds next to them.

1, JBL
2, Tannoy

..... There are at least 20 other speakers I'd own before the Lowther made it into the house .

Just an opinion , Rich

[1audiohack]

I have heard Lowther a few times :( if all a listened to was Gregorian Chants I'm sure I could be happy

:p:p

[Mr. Widget]

I have heard Lowther a few times :( if all a listened to was Gregorian Chants I'm sure I could be happy...

I have heard a wide variety of Lowthers over the years, often while the owner was sitting there with a huge smile on his face and I was amazed... I just didn't hear what he was hearing.


Widget

[cooky1257]

To get the optimum sound out of Monitor Golds/Tannoy DC's they really should be in large cabs-nothing less than a York/180L.

I too have never enjoyed the Lowther sound though do like the Dual Concentric Tannoys a lot.

[macaroonie]

.

49896

[Mike11]

Lowther is the best and I will suggest you to go for it...

[Bernard Wolf]

I owned a pair of Lowther TP1 corner horns. I tried everything I could to get them to sound right including sending the drivers back to Lowther for new surrounds. Not only did they mess up the job - I had to align the driver myself - but they still sounded like crap. One good thing though was that I sold them for $5000.00 and bought a real pair of speakers - the JBL 3100 - never looked back.. I have also owned Tannoy and they are way better than the Lowther.

Definately NOT just my opinion.

[richluvsound]

Tannoy Golds with a truextent diaphram ..... anyone ?

[Mr. Widget]

Lowther is the best and I will suggest you to go for it...You are not alone in your appreciation of Lowthers, but I am curious. What exactly do you like about them?


Widget

[timc]

You are not alone in your appreciation of Lowthers, but I am curious. What exactly do you like about them?


Widget

I guess all fans of fullrange speakers love the sound of evenly distributed breakup modes in the cone :)

Well. To be honest, thats what keeps the JBL Midwoofers going as well ;)

[macaroonie]

Lowther is the best and I will suggest you to go for it...

Please explain :confused:

[4313B]

Tannoy Golds with a truextent diaphram ..... anyone ?I wonder if Tannoy will try out Be at some point.

[richluvsound]

Its a huge market for the truextent guys ! I suppose the purists may be offended ,but Tannoy still build a world class pro studio monitor line .

[tomt]

Please explain :confused:


might be best, to use an amp with a low damping factor,

with the Lowthers.


like they were designed with.

[Cooljjay]

might be best, to use an amp with a low damping factor,

with the Lowthers.


like they were designed with.

Yep, I had that problem. I have really nice eico mono blocks...but with the lowther speakers...I was over powering them by at least 30watts. It was always scary when the volume went up while watching a move or accidentally hitting the headphone jack on the laptop. It would be nice to find an amp that match the speakers...but your talking about some serious coin for any european amp. Now with the tannoy, I don't have to worry about over powering them as they were designed to take 50watts. I think the speakers that will replace the tannoy at some time will be trusonic...I am holding hope of finding a matching cabinet for the one I have upstairs on a mono rig.

[Bernard Wolf]

Sorry if my comment might have offended anyone out there. The TP1 was a fun project considering they were found at a garage sale. I had never heard of the marque up till then. Unfortunately though, they had a nasty papery/nasal sound to them that I just could not dial out. I tried dampening the cab and smoothing out the throat, deflex paneling in strategic locations.. even lead shot in the curve of the horn all to no avail. The only thing that did sound reasonably good was driving them with a 3 watt Phillips Single Ended integrated amp with TONE controls. That did kind of defeat the notion of purity that a crossoverless design is all about. The other problem was that all of the other SE amps I used - Wavac 811A and Audio Note Kit1 all hummed and with 100+ db sensitivity that did not cut it either.

No doubt more modern cabinets will sound better than those mid 50's monster TP1's did. I have heard a Lammhorn with similar drivers sound way better.

[hmolwitz]

It seemed like you were asking for opinions, and you got plenty, I hope you enjoy your journey to sonic nirvana!
Harry:)

[DS-21]

It has, and is not far from you. In the wilds of New Mexico: http://www.hammerdynamics.com/ Well, bigger than Lowthers anyway. Better, I think so.

Part one would be to buy this kit and build enclosures for them. They will beat the pants off almost every Lowther or Tannoy. Or Zu, for that matter. I can't say about the Wesmtinster, haven't heard it, but I know it is beyond pricey.

There's just a little bit of difference between a lightly-modified Eminence Beta 12LT with a cheap tweeter diffracting off its rim (and whatever Zu uses, though the main problem with the Zu is that they're incompetent hacks when it comes to crossover design; what do you expect from wire people?) and a properly-designed Dual Concentric.

[Ducatista47]

There's just a little bit of difference between a lightly-modified Eminence Beta 12LT with a cheap tweeter diffracting off its rim (and whatever Zu uses, though the main problem with the Zu is that they're incompetent hacks when it comes to crossover design; what do you expect from wire people?) and a properly-designed Dual Concentric.
The Hammer Dynamics Super 12 is not lightly modified. Only the frame is untouched. It sounds nothing like the Zu product, by the way. I would say not to judge the Super 12s unless you have heard a well built pair. I for one find dual concentric drivers to be less coherent, but all of the speakers we are discussing are capable of fine sound. They all need to be heard to be evaluated; examining the designs will tell you nothing beyond theory. In the case of the Hammers it is one big breakthrough idea, and then in the details.

John Wyckoff's description of the Super 12 (compared to the Eminence Beta-12LT)

Cone composition: Beta-12LT is conventional Kraft type. Super 12 is slightly heavier (different mix of fibers).
Voice coil: Super 12 has smaller gauge wire with a Nomex former. (I dropped the Kapton former after the first ten samples.) Beta-12LT uses Kapton former which is not quite as neutral in the mids. Super 12 coil is slightly lighter bringing moving mass to about the same. Super 12 uses one shorted voice coil turn to reduce inductance and improve high frequency response.
Motor: Super 12 has a soft-iron polepiece to improve BL. Beta-12LT has low carbon steel. Super 12 has shorting ring at the base of the polepiece and is capped with an aluminum shorting ring (also called Faraday ring).
Spider and suspension: Super 12 spider is woven Kapton fiber and is slightly softer. The suspension on the Super 12 is doped to be slightly stiffer.
Glue: Super 12 uses a lower-mass, harder formulation, and less of it. Improves high frequency response.

As for the tweeter, inexpensive perhaps but hardly cheap. It is a fine sounding Audex unit. I mounted my examples with hardware I worked up to minimize the profile. The real breakthrough here is taking the top octave off the full range driver. The trick is to use a tweeter that integrates well with the big cone. The system has greatly improved dynamics and more even frequency response. John had great ears, a lot of patience, and he got it right.

[timc]

Beta-12LT uses Kapton former which is not quite as neutral in the mids.


When at technical explanation includes statements like this, my BS warning lights flashes bright red.

-Tim

[cooky1257]

Tannoy Golds with a truextent diaphram ..... anyone ?

Someone is bolting a TAD 2001 onto the Tannoy 3834 bass portion of the DMT15.....http://pteacoustics.com

[DS-21]

The Hammer Dynamics Super 12 is not lightly modified. Only the frame is untouched.

Measurements don't quite agree with that claim...


It sounds nothing like the Zu product, by the way.

Agreed. The S12 is decent enough in a tiny area of the room, whereas the Zu Druid I heard simply must be described as horrid by anyone accustomed to actual high-fidelity (as opposed to "high end") reproduction. But I consider the S12 strictly a "head-in-a-vise" kind of speaker. Depending on one's listening habits, that may be a perfect fit.


I would say not to judge the Super 12s unless you have heard a well built pair. I for one find dual concentric drivers to be less coherent,

I'm really curious what kind of Dual Concentrics you've heard, with what kind of crossover designs, that you find less coherent than midrange bouncing off of a bridge-mounted tweeter and large power response discontinuities in the treble.

I have in fact heard the S12's, a while ago. They're a reasonably good value, even though the individual parts are pretty cheap, because the crossover is great for directly on-axis listening. I can see how somebody would like them, provided one is careful with setup and strictly limits oneself to single sweet-spot listening. (The S12's get way too bright if one stands up or shifts left/right.) A DC* by contrast will sound the same if set up properly over a wide swath of the room. And by "set up properly" all I mean is cross-fired such that the axes cross ahead of the listening area.

Like all speakers placed to image well, the S12 needs multiple subwoofers around the room to smooth out the upper bass response.

*Or a configuration of big woofer + separate constant-directivity waveguide crossed over where the directivity of the woofer matches that of the WG, which is arguably for most applications superior to the DC in terms of fidelity to the source material. IMO, the DC is only the better choice today over a woofer+WG when one's doing a multichannel system with a flat panel TV rather than front-projector screen. The LCR Dual Concentrics can be mounted above the panel due to their symmetrical vertical polar response, and that actually gives better sound than mounting them at ear level because the center channel is now suitably off-axis as well.


but all of the speakers we are discussing are capable of fine sound.

That may be subjectively true, though I'd wonder what virtues anyone could find in the Zu Druid. (True, I haven't heard one of their speakers in the better part of a decade; perhaps later models are less incompetently designed.)

However, in an objective sense the only one of the three that is capable of high fidelity reproduction is the Dual Concentric, because it is the only one capable of both flat response (ignoring, admittedly, the narrow on-axis treble notch) and consistent power response. The others have too many frequency response problems, and the S12 has the additional objective problem of treble power response discontinuities. Admittedly, those problems are higher up in frequency - and thus, less objectionable - than what one finds in the typical 7" midwoofer + 1" flush-mounted dome tweet speaker. But they are still present and audible.

[Ducatista47]

You comments are most appreciated, but you have not heard my rig. And of course I have not heard yours. I am sure it does sound wonderful and probably measures better than mine.

Yes, I do listen in the sweet spot, which is also a cross-fired setup as the designer suggested.

*Rant Alert!*

The point is, why sit anywhere else? If you are listening while doing something else, multitasking the session in other words, high fidelity is not needed. Not enough attention is being focused on the music for it to matter. You won't catch me watching TV while having sex. Call me old school, but multitasking something really important to you seems to me a fools errand.

As to frequency anomalies, I don't use a notch filter or crossover. I rely on a FirstWatt transconductance power amp to flatten the response or at least settle it down. And I reduced the profile of the tweeter the big cone sees. I can also use a superb low wattage amp because of the high efficiency of the speaker, increasing fidelity. You can't expect to drop a speaker into a system and have it be at its best. The idea is to maximize the opportunities a speaker presents.

I can't defend my position on this or my results, nor do I have any interest in doing so. I just want to hear music and to my surely flawed ears - I'm human - It sounds better this way than through other systems I have heard. I am sure the plots would be pretty wild as compared to a ruler flat line, but it sounds very, very convincing. Which is the whole idea. When Nelson Pass got wind of me saying that, he was very pleased. He didn't ask what plots would look like.

One thing I am sure of. Julian Hirsch was wrong about everything, so I wish his whole approach would finally go away for good. Listeners need to trust their ears. They should only go to the plots when they don't like what they are hearing. This is about the music, not the equipment for Gods sake. Tinkering is not listening, any more than talking about food is eating.

Not to be taken personally by anyone, and rant over.

[richluvsound]

Someone is bolting a TAD 2001 onto the Tannoy 3834 bass portion of the DMT15.....http://pteacoustics.com

hifi at live levels ..... basically a studio monitor ..

thanks for the link , Rich