L112 and L15 for home theatre [Archive]

AMACNEE

02-01-2011, 07:33 PM

I have a pair of L112's & a pair of L15's that I'm thinking about using in a home theatre setup. Would use the L112's as the Frt. R & L and thinking of using the L15's as the Rear surround speakers. Struggling with what to do for a center channel speaker. What are anyone's thoughts on using another L15 for that? Also what about another L112. My concern here is the stereo imaging on the L112. Would an L100 be better? I've seen suggestions on the LC2 but am not sure of how well matched it would be.

rdgrimes

02-01-2011, 09:23 PM

IMO, any proposed surround should be 3-way in order to match the L112 adequately. L86 would an awesome choice. L46 would be the smallest 2-way I consider, and the L15 and L56 would be crossed off the list. Whatever is chosen, that's what I'd want to use, if possible, for center also. Although 3x L112 in front would be best.

Audiobeer

02-01-2011, 11:03 PM

I'd have to agrre with Randy, keeping the timbre across the front would be ideal!

AMACNEE

02-02-2011, 05:04 AM

Keeping the timbre as close to the same as possible is important. This is why I've been looking at speakers of about the same vintage as the L112's for use as the center.

Thanks for your thoughts on the L86 & L15. I will eliminate the L15 as a consideration. I've thought about the L86 and also the L96 for the center.

I would like to put the center on it's side either above or below the LCD TV. With the mirror image set up of the L112's Right & Left (which I would like to place vertically) is there a concern with having a third L112 as the center or would either an L86 or L96 be a better choice?

rdgrimes

02-02-2011, 06:56 AM

is there a concern with having a third L112 as the center or would either an L86 or L96 be a better choice?
There's no "concern" per se. But the 3 of those models all sound identical except for the low end. The L86 has no L-pads so you may or may not consider that as an advantage.

AMACNEE

02-02-2011, 07:24 AM

Thanks! What is an L-pad and what does it do?

AMACNEE

02-02-2011, 08:15 AM

I take it that the L-pads are the adjustments.

Another question that may be naive or possibly I should post to the speaker building forum. Since I will most likely have to buy a pair of the L86's, L96's or L112's, is it possible to set up the pair to function as a single center channel speaker? If so, how would I go about this? Could it possibly be as simple as creating a Y to split the signal after it comes out of the amp?

Don C

02-02-2011, 08:47 AM

Just use one speaker as a center. Using two would have unwanted side effects.

I take it that the L-pads are the adjustments.

Another question that may be naive or possibly I should post to the speaker building forum. Since I will most likely have to buy a pair of the L86's, L96's or L112's, is it possible to set up the pair to function as a single center channel speaker? If so, how would I go about this? Could it possibly be as simple as creating a Y to split the signal after it comes out of the amp?

AMACNEE

02-02-2011, 09:11 AM

Thanks to all who have taken the time to share their expertise and knowledge.

Now the challenge is finding either an L86, L96 or L112 for the center. Guessing I am going to have to buy a pair and have one sitting around.

rdgrimes

02-02-2011, 09:18 AM

You might get lucky enough to find a pair with one bad cabinet or only enough usable parts to make one good one. If you go with an L96, the parts are interchangeable with the L112. So you'd have spare parts.

BMWCCA

02-02-2011, 06:16 PM

There's no "concern" per se. But the 3 of those models all sound identical except for the low end.

Is the 034 similar enough to sound identical to the 044? :dont-know:

AMACNEE

02-02-2011, 08:59 PM

What is an 034 and what is an 044? Are these the numbers for either the mid range or the high frequency speaker?

rdgrimes

02-02-2011, 09:01 PM

Is the 034 similar enough to sound identical to the 044? :dont-know:
Yup. Same diaphragm - different magnet (and VC too I think). Essentially the only difference is power handling capability. (and cost to make)

rdgrimes

02-02-2011, 09:03 PM

What is an 034 and what is an 044? Are these the numbers for either the mid range or the high frequency speaker?
Tweeters. The mids in all the above models are LE5-12.

The L96 and L112 use identical crossovers, tweeters and mids. Only difference is the boxes and woofers. The L86 uses a cheaper tweeter and woofer and has less power handling, but can still grunt with the best of them.

AMACNEE

02-02-2011, 09:09 PM

Tweeters. The mids in all the above models are LE5-12.

The L96 and L112 use identical crossovers, tweeters and mids. Only difference is the boxes and woofers. The L86 uses a cheaper tweeter and woofer and has less power handling, but can still grunt with the best of them.

I thought I read someplace that the L112 had a unique tweeter. Is the tweeter that is used in the L112 and the L96 the 044 or the 034?

rdgrimes

02-02-2011, 09:22 PM

4343

02-02-2011, 10:30 PM

I thought I read someplace that the L112 had a unique tweeter. Is the tweeter that is used in the L112 and the L96 the 044 or the 034?

044
Unique to JBL...

Used in L112, L96 and L-150A.

Also a studio monitor that I can't seem to remember at the moment.:dont-know: A friend of mine has a pair. Uses the 128H, I believe (one of his woofers is white, the other black) and LE5-XX mid plus 044 tweet, all in a horizontal package so you don't have to worry about messing up the directional characteristics of a L112 by laying it on it's side.

A pair of L-150A's as fronts with L-112's as rears would be great! Use either another L-112 standing as center or rework the baffle to make it lay down, or find the Studio Monitor. I want to say it was 4313 or something, but not sure, or how it's voiced.

AMACNEE

02-03-2011, 05:16 AM

Everything you wanted to know about these things can be found here:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10661-JBL-Consumer-Tech-Sheet-Links

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L112%20ts.pdf

http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/HOM/Technical%20Sheet/L96%20Delta%20ts.pdf

Good links. Answered a lot of my newbie questions.Thanks! If I end up finding an L86 for the center channel is it possible to replace the 034 with 044, if need be, by just changing out the speaker or are there other considerations?

rdgrimes

02-03-2011, 08:29 AM

Good links. Answered a lot of my newbie questions.Thanks! If I end up finding an L86 for the center channel is it possible to replace the 034 with 044, if need be, by just changing out the speaker or are there other considerations?
There's no reason to change it, you'd gain nothing. Besides the 044 won't fit.

AMACNEE

02-03-2011, 08:14 PM

044
Unique to JBL...

Used in L112, L96 and L-150A.

Also a studio monitor that I can't seem to remember at the moment.:dont-know: A friend of mine has a pair. Uses the 128H, I believe (one of his woofers is white, the other black) and LE5-XX mid plus 044 tweet, all in a horizontal package so you don't have to worry about messing up the directional characteristics of a L112 by laying it on it's side.

A pair of L-150A's as fronts with L-112's as rears would be great! Use either another L-112 standing as center or rework the baffle to make it lay down, or find the Studio Monitor. I want to say it was 4313 or something, but not sure, or how it's voiced.

At this point I'm intending to use the L 112's I have as the fronts. I purchased them new some time in the early 80's and buying L 150's is not in the budget.

If I've understood the input here correctly, the thoughts are that either an L 86, L 96 or another L 112 can be used at the center and the acoustics should be very similar. I'm not looking for perfect I'm just looking for very good and to continue to appreciate the JBL sound.

From an aesthetic perspective I would prefer that the center channel be longer horizontally (similar to today's centers) meaning that the speaker is going to be on it's side.

Does anyone think that using either the L 86 or 96 on it's side as a center will be an issue with the L 112's vertically left and right as the mirror image pair that they are?

It would seem that the best match from an acoustic standpoint would be another L 112. The L 112 owner's manual says that they can be used either vertically or horizontally as a mirror image pair. But what happens from a sound perspective when I have a pair mirror imaged vertically Left & Right and a center that's horizontal? Is this something that I should have any concern over at all or is it minor?

I'm going to have to buy what ever the speaker is for the center. Just trying to get a good feel before I spend the cash.

Thanks again for all insights.

AMACNEE

02-05-2011, 05:45 AM

rdgrimes

02-05-2011, 08:15 AM

Thinking maybe I should consider a DIY center channel with a combination of 044 High frequency driver, an LE5-12 mid to match the L 112 and possibly a pair of 115H's. Depending on the complexity of building one it might turn easier than trying to find an L112 or L96 and achieve the horizontal layout I'd like.

I'm going to go to the DIY forum and look for some input there but would appreciate any input here.

Thanks,

Art
The success or failure is in the baffle design and custom crossover. This is not a project for the beginner. Also it'll easily cost more that the other alternatives.

One idea you haven't considered is using no center at all. If your main listening positions are near to center, it's pretty easy to go without and that might be worth at least trying out.

I'd also suggest an LC2 as an option. Although it doesn't have the advantage of similar drivers or appearance, it can easily be EQ'd to a very good voice match. And you can recover grills to match.

AmericanPie

02-05-2011, 07:15 PM

Art,

I'm not technically savvy enough to give you any specific advice on your system, but I do have a real nice pair of L86's I'm thinking of selling. PM me if you're interested.

Larry

AMACNEE

02-06-2011, 03:57 PM

The success or failure is in the baffle design and custom crossover. This is not a project for the beginner. Also it'll easily cost more that the other alternatives.

One idea you haven't considered is using no center at all. If your main listening positions are near to center, it's pretty easy to go without and that might be worth at least trying out.

I'd also suggest an LC2 as an option. Although it doesn't have the advantage of similar drivers or appearance, it can easily be EQ'd to a very good voice match. And you can recover grills to match.

I'll take your advice and skip the DIY center and continue to look for the L86, L96 or another L112. I've got time to see what comes available as my L112 woofers need to be refoamed. I've already purchased a foam replacement kit. Now I just have to do it, unless you think this is something best left to the professionals.

Thanks again for taking the time to give me your input.

Art

AMACNEE

02-12-2011, 01:54 PM

A pair of L-150A's as fronts with L-112's as rears would be great! Use either another L-112 standing as center or rework the baffle to make it lay down, or find the Studio Monitor. I want to say it was 4313 or something, but not sure, or how it's voiced.

I've got a line on a pair of L150A's (at a reasonable price). Would then use one of the L112's as the center.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this combination?

rdgrimes

02-12-2011, 02:24 PM

I've got a line on a pair of L150A's (at a reasonable price). Would then use one of the L112's as the center.

Anyone else have any thoughts on this combination?
Identical top end, the only difference is the preponderance of low end from the L150A. Assuming appropriate placement and setup, it's a good idea. The L150A uses the same drivers and crossover as the L112 with only the addition of the larger box plus passive driver. Given enough power and the right room, the 150A is a force to reckoned with.

AMACNEE

02-12-2011, 03:02 PM

4343

02-13-2011, 12:12 AM

The L150's were listed on Craigslist out of Peoria. Just got the pictures. Unfortunately the cabinets are pretty rough. Also, the woofers had some brown spots on them. Don't know what this is from. I'm going to pass on these and keep looking. There is a pair of L96 speakers on ebay that I'm watching. Don't really want to pay the hefty freight but if the price is right it might make sense.

The L112's that are currently on ebay are up to about $575 with $125 for freight which is more than I would like to pay.

There's plenty of posts here on getting spots out of the white Aquaplas. Also, the 128H-1 black cone drops right in. If the foams are good on the woofers and the passives, local is always better than inflated shipping prices... I picked my 150A's up locally, the cabinets were painted black, and while good looking wood is nice, the driver condition trumped ugly in my case. I still have not had time to take them out of service long enough to see what's under the paint... Thunderous is the word I saw in another thread describing the L-150 bass.

The studio monitor I was thinking of earlier is a 4411. Same drivers as L-112 (except 128H-1 instead of 128H.) Horizontal format from the git-go. Much better than laying a vertical design on it's side. You can see the specs here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4411.pdf

The vertical response graphs tell the story. The big hole in the middle as you move up or down in front of this horizontal design is exactly what happens when you lay a vertical design on it's side and move side to side. So you end up with the center seat being just fine, but everyone else is asking for the center channel to be louder so they can follow the dialog...:crying:

AMACNEE

02-13-2011, 10:13 AM

Thunderous is the word I saw in another thread describing the L-150 bass.

The studio monitor I was thinking of earlier is a 4411. Same drivers as L-112 (except 128H-1 instead of 128H.) Horizontal format from the git-go. Much better than laying a vertical design on it's side. You can see the specs here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4411.pdf

The vertical response graphs tell the story. The big hole in the middle as you move up or down in front of this horizontal design is exactly what happens when you lay a vertical design on it's side and move side to side. So you end up with the center seat being just fine, but everyone else is asking for the center channel to be louder so they can follow the dialog...:crying:

Not sure I want thunderous. The 4411 seems that it may be just the right speaker for a horizontal center with the L112's as right and left.

Thanks:bouncy:

rdgrimes

02-13-2011, 11:39 AM

Not sure I want thunderous.
In a smallish room , it's true enough that the L150A can be a little overbearing. But in a larger room they can really shine. Of course, competent EQ can easily tame them.

AMACNEE

02-13-2011, 02:56 PM

The studio monitor I was thinking of earlier is a 4411. Same drivers as L-112 (except 128H-1 instead of 128H.) Horizontal format from the git-go. Much better than laying a vertical design on it's side. You can see the specs here:

http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/4411.pdf

The vertical response graphs tell the story. The big hole in the middle as you move up or down in front of this horizontal design is exactly what happens when you lay a vertical design on it's side and move side to side. So you end up with the center seat being just fine, but everyone else is asking for the center channel to be louder so they can follow the dialog...:crying:

Two questions.

Is there a similar graph for the L112 available anywhere? I have the one out of the spec section that show horizontal dispersion but I'm guessing that it is for a speaker standing verically.

The crossover frequency for the L112's is stated to be 1.1 kHz and 3.7 kHz. The 4411 is 1 kHz & 4kHz. Is this discernable?

4343

02-13-2011, 04:04 PM

Not sure I want thunderous. The 4411 seems that it may be just the right speaker for a horizontal center with the L112's as right and left.

Thanks:bouncy:

when the script call for thunder, I want thunder, not thunder-ish.:eek:

I have not seen any vertical graphs for consumer gear, which is why I pointed to the 4411 graph. Same principal at work.

AMACNEE

02-13-2011, 05:39 PM

when the script call for thunder, I want thunder, not thunderish.:eek:

I have not seen any vertical graphs for consumer gear, which is why I pointed to the 4411 graph. Same principal at work.

Me too. Won't a good sub take care of that?

Also, what about the crossover difference between the L112 an the 4411?

AMACNEE

02-13-2011, 07:24 PM

This might be a dumb question but are the crossovers adjustable on the studio monitors:confused:

hjames

02-13-2011, 07:31 PM

This might be a dumb question but are the crossovers adjustable on the studio monitors:confused:
Generally, passive crossovers have LEVEL adjustment but not FREQUENCY Adjustments.

E.g, my 4 way monitors have level adjustment on the 3 higher freq drivers, not on the woofers.

jbl_daddy

02-14-2011, 01:30 PM

Remove the sub from the equation, run the l112 sat's crossing them around 80 Hz at the same time bypassing the toy amp in the sub powering it by a separate amp as well with an active crossover. My office stereo uses the l112 sub with a pair of l20t's with a bx63 crossover and a pair of crown ps200's for the power. Great sub once you replace the amp.

AMACNEE

02-19-2011, 02:58 PM

Picked up another pair of very nice L112's yesterday from a local (Detroit area) forum member. Short term, I can use one as the center channel along with the other two I already have as the front R & L. Still thinking I'd like to get a 4411 to use for the center which would allow me to replace the L15's as surrounds with the L112's. Are the L112's overkill for the surrounds?

rdgrimes

02-19-2011, 03:49 PM

Are the L112's overkill for the surrounds?
Absolutely not. The best option is always to use 5 identical speakers with equal power.

AMACNEE

02-19-2011, 03:58 PM

Absolutely not. The best option is always to use 5 identical speakers with equal power.

Is the 4411, as a center, close enough to identical? If I understand correctly it has the same drivers but in a horizontal package and with slightly different crossover points?

AMACNEE

02-19-2011, 05:00 PM

Absolutely not. The best option is always to use 5 identical speakers with equal power.

Same thought on 7.1 with front upper height speakers?

AMACNEE

03-20-2011, 09:57 AM

ratitifb

03-20-2011, 10:03 AM

Have these links moved?manual.harman.com is no longer responding for several days :dont-know:

BMWCCA

03-20-2011, 01:40 PM

manual.harman.com is no longer responding for several days :dont-know:

Check here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30584-JBL-tech-links-dead-.-.-.-again!&p=307399&highlight=#post307399 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30584-JBL-tech-links-dead-.-.-.-again%21&p=307399&highlight=#post307399)

AMACNEE

03-21-2011, 08:06 AM

Check here: http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30584-JBL-tech-links-dead-.-.-.-again!&p=307399&highlight=#post307399 (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?30584-JBL-tech-links-dead-.-.-.-again%21&p=307399&highlight=#post307399)

Thanks for the heads up. Followed the directions and they worked just fine.

AMACNEE

03-23-2011, 02:34 PM

Absolutely not. The best option is always to use 5 identical speakers with equal power.

Until I can get to the 5 identical, looking for some thoughts on the best set up using the 4 L112's and 2 L15's that I have. Here are the options that I see:

Configuration options with current speakers:

1.) Front R & L - L112, Front Center - L112, Surround R & L - L15, Sub - None

2.) Front R & L - L112, Front Center- Phantom, Surround R & L - L112, Sub - None

3.) Front R & L - L112, Front Center- Phantom, Front Upper R & L - L15, Surround R & L - L112, Sub - None