Ebay & PayPal

[Audiobeer]

Just have to Vent! Sold some speakers on ebay with a toal w/shipping about $2K. Didn't want to sell them but needed cash for the next project. Winner after many, many pleas to pay or let me know to move on finaly PayPals the cash. After many documented Emails to get a contact number for shipping (Number Ebay provided for him has a full mailbox) He sends me an Email with another number. Shipper gets it contacts him on the 12th and comes by my place on the 18th an picks up. The company guarantees to have to him by the 30th in New Jersey. All correspondences are documented. I go to leave him feedback and He's no longer a member. Now his second phone number mailbox is full. I then see an alert to go the resolution center on Ebay and he's stating I've never contacted him and he wants his money back. PayPal shows -$2k balance on my account and now I'm going through a "Resolution process" on PayPal. Of course there is no live body to talk to at PayPal. I've got an item (B380) on Ebay now! I may have to stop that auction. So anybody have any experience with this crap? Even though I've done everything correct If this guy has buyers remorse and paid with a credit card and can't afford it am I screwed?

[sbjacob]

As long as everything is documented you get a full refund regardless if he is no longer a member or if he trys to do a charge back with his card. I have been through a similar deal and received a full refund. You should be able to get confirmation on this with a Pay Pal Rep.

[SMKSoundPro]

Sorry to see this. Good luck in getting a peaceful and "sound" resolution!

Scotty.

[SEAWOLF97]

Of course there is no live body to talk to at PayPal.

PayPal Customer Service:

1-888-221-1161
(a U.S. telephone number)

4:00 AM PST to 10:00 PM Pacific Time Monday through Friday
6:00 AM PST to 8:00 PM Pacific Time Saturday and Sunday
Please note that hours of operation may vary on holidays

all the phone numbers at Paypal.
http://www.paypalsucks.com/PayPalPhoneNumbers.shtml

PayPal had to be sued in 2003 just to have them put their telephone number in a place where most persons could find it. It's 2010, and its harder than ever to get in touch with PayPal.

eBay Phone Numbers in no particular order:

1-866-322-9103 Support for eBay Stores
1-866-304-3229 Seller OnRamp training
1-800-322-9266 eBay Customer Support
1-888-749-3229
1-801-619-2400
1-408-558-7400
1-877-329-3229
1-877-438-3229
1-408-376-7425.

[Audiobeer]

Outstanding! Thanks for the phone numbers Seawolf97!

[Guy in WNY]

I will no longer sell anything on ebay. The new shift in policy at ebay that took place earlier this year was the last straw. I know a guy with an ebay "store" who has had the same thing happen. He got beat both times AND got bad feedback to boot! The scammer got the goods AND the money both times! He's getting his own web site running to sell his stuff on and leaving ebay as soon as he can.
It's Craig's List from now on! Much less hassle to the seller.
Buying still seems OK though.
That's the end of my rant!

[rtrimman]

Just have to Vent! Sold some speakers on ebay with a toal w/shipping about $2K. Didn't want to sell them but needed cash for the next project. Winner after many, many pleas to pay or let me know to move on finaly PayPals the cash. After many documented Emails to get a contact number for shipping (Number Ebay provided for him has a full mailbox) He sends me an Email with another number. Shipper gets it contacts him on the 12th and comes by my place on the 18th an picks up. The company guarantees to have to him by the 30th in New Jersey. All correspondences are documented. I go to leave him feedback and He's no longer a member. Now his second phone number mailbox is full. I then see an alert to go the resolution center on Ebay and he's stating I've never contacted him and he wants his money back. PayPal shows -$2k balance on my account and now I'm going through a "Resolution process" on PayPal. Of course there is no live body to talk to at PayPal. I've got an item (B380) on Ebay now! I may have to stop that auction. So anybody have any experience with this crap? Even though I've done everything correct If this guy has buyers remorse and paid with a credit card and can't afford it am I screwed?



The only way he gets his money back is to prove to PayPal that he returned the items to you. If the claim is over $250 he MUST provide them with signature confirmation that you got the items back. Been here done this, and beat the hell out of 2 potential scammers!

[Audiobeer]

The only way he gets his money back is to prove to PayPal that he returned the items to you. If the claim is over $250 he MUST provide them with signature confirmation that you got the items back. Been here done this, and beat the hell out of 2 potential scammers!

Rtrimman in my situation he refuses to answer his phone!! The Shipper is a trucking company. I have proof that it was shipped. Everyday the shipper Emails me that his phone voice mail is full. I have a feeling I'm gonna getted screwed on this deal. The Westlakes were beyond UPS or Fed Ex's ability. I really didn't want to sell them. Now it looks like I have paid for an East Coast Walkabout! :blink:

[rtrimman]

Heather in my situation he refuses to answer his phone!! The Shipper is a trucking company. I have proof that it was shipped. Everyday the shipper Emails me that his phone voice mail is full. I have a feeling I'm gonna getted screwed on this deal. The Westlakes were beyond UPS or Fed Ex's ability. I really didn't want to sell them. Now it looks like I have paid for an East Coast Walkabout! :blink:

It does not matter who answers a phone where. If you have proof you shipped the item and he received it you are covered. If he files a claim and says he's not happy or they aren't as described then he's on the hook to send them back and prove you got them. PayPal automatically puts a hold on funds in your account until all the smoke clears. Sounds like you have a negative balance as a result of this correct? If that's the case you will NOT be able to use that account unless you add the negative balance to it---DON'T--- use another email address and open another account if you have to until this is resolved.

[Audiobeer]

Well after an hour on the phone waiting for a live body PayPal says even if it was shipped if buyer refuses I'm toast. I just tried to pay for some purchases on Ebay and it appears I can't complete them till I pay the amount in dispute. I then asked her what if I refuse to reimburse till my speakers come, she said "I'm not an authority but they will go to your backup" which is my bank account. Beware Folks, if your a Buyer it's all good. If your a seller on a High ticket Item don't use PayPal! :banghead:

[rtrimman]

Well after an hour on the phone waiting for a live body PayPal says even if it was shipped if buyer refuses I'm toast. I just tried to pay for some purchases on Ebay and it appears I can't complete them till I pay the amount in dispute. I then asked her what if I refuse to reimburse till my speakers come, she said "I'm not an authority but they will go to your backup" which is my bank account. Beware Folks, if your a Buyer it's all good. If your a seller on a High ticket Item don't use PayPal! :banghead:


If you don't use PayPal, you don't sell on Ebay, unless you want to start paying credit card fees and processing them yourself!

[Altec Best]

The last time I had to use the resolution center I had to get a pin number that was good for 1 hour or something like that.When I use Paypal I always transfer the funds to my bank account ASAP.If you got the $2K in your pocket, I would leave it there until merchandise arrives back in your possession.They can't make you refund the money before return confirmation of shipping.Once they have a confirmation that the goods were returned then they can proceed with refunding of payment.

But listen to this I once made a payment with Paypal for $200 and they took 2 payments for a total of $400 and told me to get my money back myself I don't trust them one Freaking bit.My bank even told me to get rid of them from my account and even close that account and open a new one I've had several issues with them.

As has been noted. Buyers are fine, sellers have more of a problem I think, they are trying to deter scammers as much as possible (Except when they are Buyers):(

[louped garouv]

If you don't use PayPal, you don't sell on Ebay, unless you want to start paying credit card fees and processing them yourself!
FWIW
i know some folks who encourage use of US Postal Money Orders....

seems to work OK for them, but I did notice even them taking paypal payments on more items lately....

[Mr. Widget]

I then asked her what if I refuse to reimburse till my speakers come, she said "I'm not an authority but they will go to your backup" which is my bank account.


When I use Paypal I always transfer the funds to my bank account ASAP.Your money is not safe in your bank account if that account is linked to your PayPal account. I keep a bank account solely for PayPal. I never leave more than $100 in it. As soon as PayPal has transferred funds into my bank account, I immediately transfer them to another bank account that PayPal has no rights to. I have had PayPal try to pull money out of my bank account due to the errors of others... they are much quicker to resolve it when there is no easy way for them to simply pull a couple of grand out of your bank.


Widget

[Steve Schell]

Widget I had not considered the possibility of Paypal yanking money out of a linked checking account. The way they operate though, I wouldn't put it past them. I routinely transfer money out of my Paypal account ASAP as I consider it unsafe to leave it in there. I have heard too many stories of Paypal returning funds to scam buyers, leaving the seller with no goods and no money. Paypal once froze my account after reversing a large withdrawal, without even sending me an email detailing their actions, though they claim they had done so.

Basically, what we have with ebay / Paypal is a tyrannical monopoly. They seem to hate sellers (their customers!), as all recently policy changes are hostile to sellers. These include fee hikes, the %$#@!* non-defeatable shipping calculator, virtual insistence on Paypal settlement, and the inability of sellers to leave anything but positive feedback for buyers. All buyers now look like angels with 100% positive feedback, regardless of their records of slow pay/no pay/various devious behaviors.

[rtrimman]

FWIW
i know some folks who encourage use of US Postal Money Orders....

seems to work OK for them, but I did notice even them taking paypal payments on more items lately....


You are throwing this out in jest I hope? Would you mail $2K in cash to someone for an item? Same difference.
And when your letter with the MO mysteriously doesn't make it to the seller who are you going to complain to then??

My final thoughts on this topic are that all the posts have some validity. The bottom line is that Ebay has the biggest and best auction site on the net, Period. Until someone mans up with a better mousetrap you have to Fully understand your rights and responsibilities as a buyer and as a seller. That does not mean it's fair to all parties involved. And like every other aspect of the internet, some piece of crap hopped up on AMP energy drinks is going to exploit it, hack it and abuse it. This my friends is the price we pay for shopping from the easy chair.
I think Ronald Reagan summed it up rather well with his quote "Trust But Verify"

[Fangio]

...

Basically, what we have with ebay / Paypal is a tyrannical monopoly. They seem to hate sellers (their customers!), as all recently policy changes are hostile to sellers. These include fee hikes, the %$#@!* non-defeatable shipping calculator, virtual insistence on Paypal settlement, and the inability of sellers to leave anything but positive feedback for buyers. All buyers now look like angels with 100% positive feedback, regardless of their records of slow pay/no pay/various devious behaviors.

as usual, Steve – a perfect analysis. Couldn't agree more.

[rdgrimes]

My $.02:
While every criticism of eBay and PayPal is justified and mostly accurate in this thread, it also needs to be mentioned that audiobeer has some portion of blame to carry. The warning signs were there that this buyer was less than reliable - if not crooked - and a flake at best. audiobeer chose to go forward and ship. There's always enough fault to go around.

Here's what I've learned selling on the bay:
All my auctions carry a warning that payment is expected in 24hrs or item will be sold to the next bidder. It's always better to risk a mad buyer than to let a flake walk all over you. The buyer gets 1 email warning that payment is delinquent. After 4 days, a non-payment case is opened - the results of that are pre-determined if the buyer refuses to cancel the transaction.
I use the maximum allowed buyer exclusions to block bids from flakey buyers.
High-priced items that require freight shipping should always be sold as "pickup only" and the buyer forced to arrange packing, shipping and payment for shipping. UPS shipping allows the full protections of PP and eBay to help the seller, where freight shipping does not.

[louped garouv]

You are throwing this out in jest I hope? Would you mail $2K in cash to someone for an item? Same difference.

And when your letter with the MO mysteriously doesn't make it to the seller who are you going to complain to then??



i hear you...
but it is how some folks choose to do business...


I've never had issues/problems with these particular vendors...
(i do exercise a hefty dose of caution when deciding who to deal with initially tho')

I also keep a copy of the MO, and send it requiring signature to be released....

my understanding is that USPS can do a trace on the MOs if the
seller claims non-reciept (if you didn't send it certified or anything)....
just be sure to be able to ID the MO you sent -- ie keep a copy...

but yeah, i do understand the concern with this method...
on the other hand, it does cut paypal out of the loop...

i've sent more than 2 grand this way & also via certified draft...

guess i've been lucky?

[Steve Schell]

Most of the purchases I made on ebay over the years- hundreds- were paid for with USPS money orders. If someone cashes one of these while perpetrating a fraud they have committed a federal crime.

These days, even including the words "money order" or "personal check" in your item description will result in your auction being canceled. My belief is that paying for the goods is between buyer and seller, and that ebay has NO BUSINESS being a part of this process. However, ebay is determined to grab another 2.9% of the billions flowing through their site, so they have aggressively sought to prevent other settlement paths, claiming "security issues." Ebay tried this same strategy in Australia and the government there forced them to stop. I'm not holding my breath for any enforcement action in the USA, after watching guv't agencies like the "see no evil" SEC smooching up to big business.

[louped garouv]

Most of the purchases I made on ebay over the years- hundreds- were paid for with USPS money orders. If someone cashes one of these while perpetrating a fraud they have committed a federal crime.

...

this is along my line of thinking...

at the very least, it would be a local civil action...
:)

kinda sucks how this is going down at Ebay IMHO....

[DavidF]

Widget I had not considered the possibility of Paypal yanking money out of a linked checking account. The way they operate though, I wouldn't put it past them. I routinely transfer money out of my Paypal account ASAP as I consider it unsafe to leave it in there. I have heard too many stories of Paypal returning funds to scam buyers, leaving the seller with no goods and no money. Paypal once froze my account after reversing a large withdrawal, without even sending me an email detailing their actions, though they claim they had done so.

Basically, what we have with ebay / Paypal is a tyrannical monopoly. They seem to hate sellers (their customers!), as all recently policy changes are hostile to sellers. These include fee hikes, the %$#@!* non-defeatable shipping calculator, virtual insistence on Paypal settlement, and the inability of sellers to leave anything but positive feedback for buyers. All buyers now look like angels with 100% positive feedback, regardless of their records of slow pay/no pay/various devious behaviors.

As with any electronic funds transfer/payment enterprise the onus to deliver has shifted to the "seller" in order to offer more protections to the "buyer". Hell, as a buyer you are better purchasing by PayPal or a credit card than by cash in today's world. As a seller all you really want is cash. Even Money Orders and Cashier's Checks are no guaranty of payment. Many eBay sellers could not qualify or justify setting up a credit card merchant acceptance account and would find the fees and credit requirements prohibitive. Given the limited choices of payment intermediates PayPal sure beats the alternatives for me.

[scott fitlin]

You are throwing this out in jest I hope? Would you mail $2K in cash to someone for an item? Same difference.
And when your letter with the MO mysteriously doesn't make it to the seller who are you going to complain to then??

I use postal money orders all the time. And with an overnight express mail you have the person on the receiving end sign for the parcel. And with a letter for a small charge you can get "Delivery Confirmation" when you mail a letter and you want to know that IT GOT THERE!

[Steve Schell]

It used to be the responsibility of the buyer to see that payment (in full!) reached the seller in a timely manner. Seems to me that's the way it should be. Money orders worked very well for this, as did personal checks when neither party was in a hurry. Paypal is certainly quick and efficient, and it is really the buyer who pays the 2.9% fee in the form of higher seller's prices. Pluses and minuses either way, but the galling thing is the coercion employed by ebay/Paypal to limit settlement choices and steer the business to themselves.

The government should take an interest in this, as the USPS has lost HUGE business in 1) money order sales and 2) letter delivery.

[Altec Best]

Your money is not safe in your bank account if that account is linked to your PayPal account. I keep a bank account solely for PayPal. I never leave more than $100 in it. As soon as PayPal has transferred funds into my bank account, I immediately transfer them to another bank account that PayPal has no rights to.



I should have explained in more detail I too have a secondary account(Paypal)and my primary checking account has no links too it.When the funds hit the secondary they are transferred to the primary ASAP :D I opened the new primary after my bank told me to do so they said to get rid of Paypal permanently,but if you want to buy something on eBay your "Stuck like Chuck" ! After they caused me some grief (Their Fault) and told me to resolve it myself that was it for me.

Also what is wrong with checks does anybody here pay for their car loan or mortgage with Paypal.Nothing wrong with Checks and money orders as long as seller waits for funds to clear Nothing wrong IMO. Where is the security risks that Paypal Claims nothing more than a monopoly.

[Audiobeer]

I now know that he did recieve shipment of speakers. I'm hoping that He Escalates to Ebay Customer support or at least lets Ebay know he's Happy. If I don't hear anything by Saturday I'm going to Click on "The" Escalate button just to bring this to a head.

[Audiobeer]

I just got off the phone with Ebay and they said they were releasing my funds tonight. THE MF moment it's released I'm changing my backup account. It was in limbo due to going through the resolution process, so I forced the issue by escalating. Once escalated I had a live body to deal with and could finally fax the shipping and recieving documentation and signatures so the Former Ebay buyer could no longer hold this seller hostage. :banghead:

Hopefully I'll be doing this tomorrow :applaud:

P.S. I'd love to post his name and address here......but what the hell.

[Audiobeer]

It was credited. What have I learned....

1.) Make sure your dedicated backup account is not your regular checking account.

2.) Don't ship a high ticket item unless you spoke w/buyer on the phone outside of ebay.

3.) If the deal dosen't feel right it probably isn't.

Thanks for everyones input because quite frankly w/o out the tips I recieved they would have ruled in the buyers behalf. He would have had the speakers and the cash!!

:applaud:

[louped garouv]

glad things worked out right for you....

[4313B]

OT but possibly interesting:

http://www.slate.com/id/2271265/

In founding PayPal, which made his first fortune when he sold it to eBay for $1.5 billion in 2002, Thiel sought to create a global currency beyond the reach of taxation or central bank policy. He likewise sees Facebook as a way to form voluntary supra-national communities.

[louped garouv]

OT but possibly interesting:

http://www.slate.com/id/2271265/

In founding PayPal, which made his first fortune when he sold it to eBay for $1.5 billion in 2002, Thiel sought to create a global currency beyond the reach of taxation or central bank policy. He likewise sees Facebook as a way to form voluntary supra-national communities.

we should all start referring to paypal fees as the 'thiel tax'

:)

[JBLAddict]

I tried to make two CD purchases today, and for the first time, had them both "unable to process" at the PayPal final screen.

Talked to PayPal for 40mins, nothing wrong with my account, they were unable to come up with a solution.

These were also the first purchases that routed me through this "Channel Advisor" dealio, which I'm suspicious to be the cause, anyone had luck on PayPal routed thorugh this new third party service?

[opimax]

I tried to make two CD purchases today, and for the first time, had them both "unable to process" at the PayPal final screen.

Talked to PayPal for 40mins, nothing wrong with my account, they were unable to come up with a solution.

These were also the first purchases that routed me through this "Channel Advisor" dealio, which I'm suspicious to be the cause, anyone had luck on PayPal routed thorugh this new third party service?

Just changed my password on PayPal, site is in construction, their own links say the link is old, i had to ask 3 times before the correct info was displayed. more confusing than this post!

Mark

[hjames]

weird - I bought the new "The Promise" 2 disc package from Sony online for Emma (for Christmas) and used paypal couple days ago and everything worked just fine.

[rgwalker]

my bank told me to do so they said to get rid of Paypal permanently

That's funny coming from a bank. If you have payments automatically taken from a bank account it means that you've signed over full access to your account and the bank is forced to honor it even if they see a red flag. It happened to me with my health insurance and because of an accounting error they cleaned out a checking account, including my overdraft. The bank called me right away but they had to put a hold on the funds and I couldn't clean out the account.

I raised shit with the insurance company and they admitted that it was a mistake and I got my money back immediately but it took a week from start to finish and I had to run interference with a few creditors and borrow money to cover checks that were coming in.

It was an eye opener and I refuse to make automatic payments to anyone other than life insurance and that's just to protect my wife and keep the payments up if something happens to me that may affect the policy.

[SEAWOLF97]

.
those turbs have the gall to put this on their log in page..:crying:

PayPal. The world's most-loved way to pay and get paid.
If this page appears for more than 5 seconds, click here (https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_login-done&login_access=1289663857) to reload.

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: