Dual JBL 18 inch subs

[Russellc]

I do home HiFi, but have a friend picking my brain for subs to use in his new club's dance floor. Whatever cheapo 18 inch subs were purchased just dont get it bass wise, and they are disappointed. I told him that JBL was the likely way to go and they are all ears. I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H, I can remember reading posts here that seem to prefer the 2242H to it, but I never dug into it.

My guess is that these will see some abuse, so any suggestions as to these drivers, or other available drivers from JBL that are similarly priced, box size and tuning would be greatly appreciated, with an eye towards dependability. I dont think he needs anything tricky, just hard slammin bass. I recall an article that had the JBL 380 info as well as an 18 inch version, but havent located that yet. plus, I think they want two dual 18 inch boxes, unless someone feels that's over kill for a dance floor and two boxes with single 18 inches would do?

I am not familiar with JBL's newer drivers, so I am all ears here, thank you for any advice I could use in constructing him a pair of subs. Thanks!

Russellc

[grumpy]

ask Mr. Fitlin ...

[rdgrimes]

There's plenty of pro audio options in the 18" sub class, any of which could do the job. The bigger question is room volume and sub placement, power, etc. If it's a big room and placement is not optimal, it won't matter what you put in there. Likewise it will sound very different when the room is empty vs full of bodies.

[Robh3606]

For a club go with the 2242

Rob:)

[scott fitlin]

For nightclub use, the 2242 all the way. You might really also look very seriously at some type of horn loading for them, as well. Just ported direct radiators alone, you will need MANY 18,s, and TONS of power.

Then, horn loading also offers a particular tonality you just cant get from direct radiation alone, THAT KICK, and dance music on a dance floor MUST have that kick to make the music propulsive. Dance music IS beat driven, you know!

The 2245 for a dance club is definitely NOT the woofer of choice.

If you have some specific questions, fire away, I will help to the best of my knowledge. :)

[scott fitlin]

I think they want two dual 18 inch boxes, unless someone feels that's over kill for a dance floor and two boxes with single 18 inches would do?



RussellcWhat is the rest of the system comprised of? If it is a large system, two dual 18in direct radiating ported subs are NO WHERE NEAR ENOUGH!

[Titanium Dome]

Agreement here on the 2242 as the probable driver of choice, but some bigger questions remain:


How big is the club in cubic feet?
What is the output capability (SPL) of the rest of the system?
How low does the rest of the system go (in Hz)?
Where are the locations for sub placement?
How many people will the club hold?

[JeffW]

I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H,

Got a link? I was thinking the 2245H had been discontinued some time ago.

[rdgrimes]

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=&srchExt=MFG&perPage=27&sortBy=1&layout=grid&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=583&srchMfg=90&srchPromo=&srchAttr=

[JeffW]

http://www.parts-express.com/wizards/searchResults.cfm?searchFilter=&srchExt=MFG&perPage=27&sortBy=1&layout=grid&page=1&srchPrice=&srchCat=583&srchMfg=90&srchPromo=&srchAttr=

I see a 2241H and a 2242H, but I'm not seeing a 2245H.

[hjames]

Hmmm - what part of "Use a 2242 and not a 2245" written by the posters in the previous messages were you unable to read?


I see a 2241H and a 2242H, but I'm not seeing a 2245H.


For nightclub use, the 2242 all the way.
...
The 2245 for a dance club is definitely NOT the woofer of choice.


For a club go with the 2242 Rob:)

Please note - I was quoting 3 knowledgeable members here who're trying to answer your original questions about a dance club sub.

Quoting your own post 3 times isn't equivalent nor significant - just redundant

[JeffW]

Hmmm - what part of "Use a 2242 and not a 2245" the posters in the previous messages wrote were you unable to read?

I read fine.

What part of "I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H" threw you off the track?

I read where the 2242 was the preferred sub, that wasn't part of my original inquiry as to where 2245H could be found at Parts Express and others.

LOL. ETA:


I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H,


I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H,


I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H,

[hjames]

Seemed like your initial post asked the relevant question

"have a friend picking my brain for subs to use in his new club's dance floor. Whatever cheapo 18 inch subs were purchased just dont get it bass wise, and they are disappointed. I told him that JBL was the likely way to go and they are all ears. I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H, I can remember reading posts here that seem to prefer the 2242H to it, but I never dug into it. "

"I am not familiar with JBL's newer drivers, so I am all ears here, thank you for any advice I could use in constructing him a pair of subs. Thanks!"

And the folks with knowledge confirmed that 2242 is preferred for club use in subs compared to the 2245 - so - why keep looking for 2245s?

[JeffW]

Seemed like your initial post asked the relevant question

"I am not familiar with JBL's newer drivers, so I am all ears here, thank you for any advice I could use in constructing him a pair of subs. Thanks!"

And the folks with knowledge confirmed that 2242 is preferred for club use to the 2245 -

I don't deny that the 2242 has risen to the top of the list as the sub for dance club use.

In the OP you can read where he says


I see Parts Express and others carry the 2245H,

I am not setting up a dance club, but I'm interested in places that carry the 2245H.

Clear?

ETA:

Read post #8.

[scott fitlin]

For whatever reason anyone is looking for the 2245H, to the best of my knowledge that model HAS BEEN DISCONTINUED for some time, already! Parts are available to repair existing cores, but that is about it.

:)

[1audiohack]

Well you just never know, they ran 2123's a year or two ago, I bought a couple and I would buy some new 2245's given the chance. Remember the Sub1500 deal at PE?

[scott fitlin]

Well you just never know, they ran 2123's a year or two ago, I bought a couple and I would buy some new 2245's given the chance. Remember the Sub1500 deal at PE?Be that as it may, the original topic of this thread was DANCE CLUB SUBS! And the 2245H is NOT a "DISCO" woofer, at all!

For it's intended applications, the 2245H is a GREAT woofer, but it is NOT a DANCE CLUB SUB!

[1audiohack]

You will get no argument from me.:)

[Russellc]

I see a 2241H and a 2242H, but I'm not seeing a 2245H.

It was in their paper catalog, its the only one shown there!

Russellc

[Russellc]

For nightclub use, the 2242 all the way. You might really also look very seriously at some type of horn loading for them, as well. Just ported direct radiators alone, you will need MANY 18,s, and TONS of power.

Then, horn loading also offers a particular tonality you just cant get from direct radiation alone, THAT KICK, and dance music on a dance floor MUST have that kick to make the music propulsive. Dance music IS beat driven, you know!

The 2245 for a dance club is definitely NOT the woofer of choice.

If you have some specific questions, fire away, I will help to the best of my knowledge. :)

OK, sounds like the 2242H is the one to go with, thanks Rob and others. Mr Fitlin, I will no doubt have questions. Let me get some measurments of the place and so forth and I'll be back.

Russellc

[Russellc]

Agreement here on the 2242 as the probable driver of choice, but some bigger questions remain:


How big is the club in cubic feet?
What is the output capability (SPL) of the rest of the system?
How low does the rest of the system go (in Hz)?
Where are the locations for sub placement?
How many people will the club hold?



Will be back with some specifics, thanks.

Russellc

[mikebake]

What town is this club in?

[Russellc]

What town is this club in?
Kansas City, MO

Russellc

[rdgrimes]

Kansas City, MO


Prolly should include some welded steel grills then too. ;)

[robertbartsch]

I have a couple of 2245s and they require the power of Niagra Falls to run.

[Russellc]

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:
Prolly should include some welded steel grills then too. ;)

Only if its thick enough to be bullet proof!:D

[scott fitlin]

Russell, what kind of music will be the predominant format in this club?

[robertbartsch]

What is the ideal application for a 2245?

[Titanium Dome]

We haven't seen much of Doc around, so let's resurrect his similar question:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?22814-Subwoofer-for-hi-fi-2242H-vs-2245H.&highlight=2245+vs+2242

For a slightly older song from the same repertoire:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?10210-JBL-S1S-EX-2242HPL-the-quot-most-frightening-quot-subs-out-there&highlight=2245+vs+2242

In the end, I think the answer is "Depends..."


(No, not Depends! :mad: )

[scott fitlin]

What is the ideal application for a 2245?PREMIUM CONSUMER HI FI subwoofer. Critical monitoring. And any application where one needs or wants TRUE and accurate sub bass.

[SMKSoundPro]

Here is what Lisa and i built for our dance floors. It is the SR4719 clone. Double 2241 18's in a 20 cubic foot box. I have four of these cabs in the larger ballroom/dancefloor and two of these in the smaller dancefloor.

They even sound good with 2240's in them.
I have the plans and port lengths available if needed.

[scott fitlin]

VERY NICE Scotty!

And your doing along the same principles as I use my ported subs, MULTIPLES! In a larger room, four double 18,s, I agree with this. I have two double 18in ported cabs in each of my two center stacks, and LOTS of power, and they come to life, big time.

:bouncy:

[mikebake]

I was going to suggest the simple route of some 4719's. Still a good sounding box and should be somewhat available on the used market. They were fairly common.

[clubman]

JBL would be my first choice but there is other good subs to be had for high impact club applications. I am in KCMO and have experience with nightclub sound systems. If you wish I can answer anything you would like to know....just shoot me a PM. You can come listen to the rig I designed and installed.

[mikebake]

JBL would be my first choice but there is other good subs to be had for high impact club applications. I am in KCMO and have experience with nightclub sound systems. If you wish I can answer anything you would like to know....just shoot me a PM. You can come listen to the rig I designed and installed.

What are you using?

[clubman]

JBL 2241's in custom cabs powered by MA3600VZ's

Ive used others in the past, EAW, EV, I have even had awsome results with eminence in custom boxes

My next choice would be EV, my tops are all EV and system FIR filters are through a EV N8000

[scott fitlin]

JBL 2241's in custom cabs powered by MA3600VZ's

Ive used others in the past, EAW, EV, I have even had awsome results with eminence in custom boxes

My next choice would be EV, my tops are all EV and system FIR filters are through a EV N8000Agree! I use 2242,s in custom boxes, right now I am using a QSC Powerlight 6.0II, and I have Crown Macro Tech I series for them, as well.

I also use some eminence in custom folded horns with exceptional results for nightclub bass, Crown I Tech powered, and some 2240 loaded double 18in scoops, 3600VZ powered.

I am partial to the way the JBL 18,s sound, they have a unique punch, very clearcut, and weight nothing else seems to have quite the same way. To my ears, JBL woofers, powered by Crown amps and TOTL QSC amps, deliver the goods.

[clubman]

sorry to get off topic but just some ideas.

Club sound systems have to be designed so they are really easy to use for the non techy non sound man person. Not every club can staff a sound man everynight they are open. If processing equipment is in the booth make sure it is locked up in a ventalated rack. Ive seen Dj's who think they know what they are doing ajust setings all over the place not having a clue on what they are doing.... puting a big smile on a 31band graphic.

If possible locate the equipement in a climate controled room out of arms reach from anyone with sticky fingers. Keep speaker lines short as possible. I use 10 gauge THHN twisted in a drill pulled in conduit.

Have plunty of electrical power. I like a dedicated breaker for each amplifier, regaurdless of the duty its pulling. Have a seperate pannel for sound if you can, keeps things easy.

Not a fan of passives in top boxes I like to biamp everything. But this requires more amplifiers.

Always better to have way more than you need. Like having tons of headroom.

Only fly cabs desinged to do so, no chains through handles:blink:

have a cd player or ipod dock so bar manager can put on some music before the DJ goes on.

I could go on and on

[hlaari]

I am thinking to make clone of the JBL ASB6128V box
I have (4) JBL 2258HPL drivers and I need drawning of the box.
can someone help me






Regards
Ari

[scott fitlin]

sorry to get off topic but just some ideas.

Club sound systems have to be designed so they are really easy to use for the non techy non sound man person. Not every club can staff a sound man everynight they are open. If processing equipment is in the booth make sure it is locked up in a ventalated rack. Ive seen Dj's who think they know what they are doing ajust setings all over the place not having a clue on what they are doing.... puting a big smile on a 31band graphic.

If possible locate the equipement in a climate controled room out of arms reach from anyone with sticky fingers. Keep speaker lines short as possible. I use 10 gauge THHN twisted in a drill pulled in conduit.

Have plunty of electrical power. I like a dedicated breaker for each amplifier, regaurdless of the duty its pulling. Have a seperate pannel for sound if you can, keeps things easy.

Not a fan of passives in top boxes I like to biamp everything. But this requires more amplifiers.

Always better to have way more than you need. Like having tons of headroom.

Only fly cabs desinged to do so, no chains through handles:blink:

have a cd player or ipod dock so bar manager can put on some music before the DJ goes on.

I could go on and onI agree with most of what you say. However, in the BEST of clubs, ones that have 1 resident DJ, and no one else, this type of club can have sophisticated, and elaborate systems. Ones that give the DJ alot of control over the system. Whilst the room EQ,s are set and not to be touched, the DJ has a 5 band program EQ in the console as well as a 3 band DJ xover, sub, full range, and tweeter at their disposal too!

I also believe in dedicated AC service for sound systems, dedicated breakers for each amplifier, NO SHARED NEUTRALS, dedicated ground, and SQUARE D panels and breakers, and quality outlets.

We could go on and on, and the level of sophistication and control varies with each club. The rooms that have been top of the game, have systems that give the DJ what some might consider too much control, but used properly, the Richard Long style of sound systems have always been the best sounding.

OR, you can come to CONEY ISLAND and hear what I have in THE ELDORADO BUMPER CARS, and see what you think of my system! :D

[mouchon]

Hi everyone,

I am also looking for 18"s to put in a small techno club.

I get that the 2242H is strongly recommended (over the 2245), but what about 2240H and 2241H? They seem much cheaper and easier to find - is there a catch???

Price is definitely an issue for me as I am building this setup on a budget.


The club (more like a studio) will be max 1000 sq ft and I will be powering them with my Yamaha P2201 or similar yammies, maybe QSC or Carvin for bigger watts if I find a good deal.


Thanks for your help!


PS: Scott, the Eldorado Bumper Cars looks fantastic - I will be sure to check it out next time I visit NYC:D

[scott fitlin]

2240H is a discontinued woofer. The 2240 was the hero of the 1980,s and it is a great sounding woofer but with everything and all the changes at JBL, I don't know what parts availability in the upcoming future is going to be! So, if you buy used 2240,s and blow them, which happens occasionally, I don't what OR if servicing will be doable or not. Therefore I cannot recommend this route at this time. And I personally, DO NOT RECOMMEND aftermarket parts, UNLESS the parts are made specifically for the items in question, and sanctioned by JBL! As is the case with the Truextent beryllium diaphragms. And, consider this, if you get vintage 2240,s, and you like them, and you blow one, or some, and you recone them, AND THE RECONES do not sound like what you first heard that you came to like? You will then be a VERY unhappy camper. The reason I stress that you consider this is simple, I went through it myself. And most people hear something they really like, they become accustomed to this, and you blow a driver, or drivers, we recone them, and for whatever reason, they don't sound the same, and most of the time, it is never an improvement over the original, it is inferior. Now your stuck chasing something that no longer exists, as well as having spent good money to fix your gear, and wind up, MAYBE, having to spend even more money on new, or different drivers that you can get factory parts for. Then, you are going to set up and operate a club, and play techno, which has LOTS of EXAGGERATED bottom end. And, being a dance club, whether a big room or small room, playing the system politely is NOT what's on the menu! You want your system to pump and kick, while sounding great doing all this so you need drivers that are up to the task, and can safely handle what your going to do. And you, I am sure, will want some power to be able to kick them, and large amounts of power can be had in all price ranges today. So you have to have drivers that sound great and can handle everything your gonna throw at them. AND YOU WILL THROW THE GOODS AT THEM!

The 2242 is rated to handle more power than the 2240, and I'm happy with them, myself. Also, I find with todays techno, and house music, the 2242 reproduces the bottom octaves better.

The 2241 is OK, but I didn't care for this particular model, both the 40 and 42 have a more pronounced kick, as well as that JBL weighty sounding bottom. This is my personal opinion here, I am not saying it's a bad driver, it is good, just not one of my preferences. We do have a member, who has a club in Alaska who uses the 2241, to great success, and he likes them. So, you really have to know what each model sounds like, and what it is YOU like!

AND, when I priced reconing my 2240H woofers, they came out higher than the 2242, I got prices of around $260.00ea for the 2242 vs $330.00ea for the 2240H! You may save buying 2240 baskets, but your going to spend for parts to fix Legacy drivers, IF JBL doesn't do away with them altogether! And the word is JBL is doing away with parts for the older items. Right now, they can be serviced, what happens 6 months or a year from now? I don't know.

Things to consider!

[SMKSoundPro]

Yes, I have many 2240 and 2241's installed here at the nightclub that work great!

BUT, The recone price of a 2240 has stopped me dead in my tracks. So all of the 2240's are upstairs in boxes on the shelf or installed in smaller speaker systems for the dog and pony show gigs every once in a while outside of the club, like taking the show to Fairbanks.

I am happy with the 2241's in both of my dance floors, and I have no direct experience with the 2242, I am sure that they are superb also.

The SR4719 style of double 18 just works for my particular situation. Size and scale. Just pile a bunch of them up and add some serious Crown power amps and away you go!

I had the Yamaha 2200/2201 powering the subs in the small dance floor (30'x30') and it was never enough! Never enough rack cooling, never enough extention of the lows...always chewed up drivers because the amps were clipping by the moron dj's we had at the time.
Now, in the same room, I have a crown 3600 driving 6 -2241's and have 4- SR4735a clones hanging from the unistrut mounted to the ceiling, and let me tell you... The gal dj can get the room groove on! She hasn't chewed up anything in over two years!!! (= $$$ in my pocket!)

Good luck with your little club. I understand what you are doing and know you have a friend here in Anchorage, but I am also saying that a small room is more difficult to stuff a bunch of low end into. No matter how much sound gear I put into that little room, it always sounds better out in the parking lot. (Must be the long wavelengths...yea, thats it!)

ScottyK.

[clubman]

I agree with the others the 2240H is a great woofer but the recone price makes it not such a good choice if you have to recone alot of them often. I run two of them for my personal system and love em. I also think for a techno aplication the power handling is a bit low on the 2240H but it all depends on how many you use for the space given.

Just my .02 but any sub driver you choose at one point you will have to recone it. Even if you dont burn the coil up the spider and surrounds will just wear out and get loose. I like to recone subs that get heavy use every couple years or so. Keeps the sound nice and tight.

[mouchon]

Hey thanks scotty (and scotty :)) for the insight.

I'm NOT looking to recone every over week, will definitely go for bigger wattage to avoid any clipping. I think the re-cone economy will definitely cover the extra amp cost.

Just to be clear, this won't be strictly a club, more like a private studio with a dancefloor. I'm just trying to have a place to throw some gigs in for me & my DJ friends.

The 18"s would be paired with 4 ceiling-mounted speakers (something like what you have ScottyK!)

[clubman]

just another thought....My fav. econemy sub woofer is the eminence omega pro 18, in a good built box this woofer is great.

[scott fitlin]

just another thought....My fav. econemy sub woofer is the eminence omega pro 18, in a good built box this woofer is great.YES, the Eminence Omega 18 is a good woofer for the price. It is a cost effective solution to things, and IMHO, UNLESS your buying pristine USED goods from someone or somewhere you know well, NEW IN BOX is always MY best choice.

And, properly powered in a good cabinet, the Omega kicks hard and is durable, kind of hard to blow them if you don't seriously abuse them.

[scott fitlin]

just another thought....My fav. econemy sub woofer is the eminence omega pro 18, in a good built box this woofer is great.Not exactly economy, but if you order 4 or more, $399ea, and I ordered four to use in my J Horns. These are supposed to be great woofers, and are made here in the USA, and they make an entire range of products that look interesting.

http://www.aespeakers.com/drivers.php?driver_id=24 underhung coils.

[RedCoat23]

I'd really like to see how these would perform

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=293-674

I've heard nothing but good comments about their other drivers

[lgvenable]

find a cinema series sr4719 dual sub box, which comes with 2241H's, and can handle 600 WPC into each sub. I have one upstairs, and the neighbors always commented if I cranked it.on. Right now the two 2240's I had in it are now in Scotty Fitlin's Coney Island business. However I attached a picture of the box; with 2240's. It came with 2241's, but the character I got it from used those in w-bins he was building.

Given that I have a 12 ft3 2245H, I thought I'd build a new front for it, and turn it into a single 2245H , slightly over 12ft3; and would just need to be port tuned. My other 2245H is good for 25Hz.
I go this sub enclosure for $200, so bargains can be had.:D

I attached a picture of it with 2 x 2240 and two of the amps I use, AB Systems 821's , which push 600 WPC continuous bridged into each speaker; and is very strong, running more than 600WPC per amp.

Oddly enough recently I couldn't sell one of these amps when I paced it on the forum (folks are choosy), but when friend heard it; he couldn't snap it up fast enough. I still have two more..;)

One thing I agree with mentioned by others, use 2245H's at home in your theater, use those 2241's from parts express to fill a box like this and push bass at a commercial venue; trust me; it wasnt designed for 2240's, but I was getting 35 to 40 HZ untuned, and at 600 WPC X 2 >> unbelievable bass levels. At the "your neighbor will call the Police " levels.... Scotty KNOWS, thats what he uses...

Larry

4692946930

[CalAudio]

Plans are Great!
If you could use drawing for the dual 18"s and I also have some 15" if you plans for them too.
I'm a big JBL fan and have a few drivers with no cabs.

Your help would be very cool,

Thanks!


Here is what Lisa and i built for our dance floors. It is the SR4719 clone. Double 2241 18's in a 20 cubic foot box. I have four of these cabs in the larger ballroom/dancefloor and two of these in the smaller dancefloor.

They even sound good with 2240's in them.
I have the plans and port lengths available if needed.

[beaulieu]

Just got a pair of 2241 HPL loaded JBL cabs anyone familar with these?? I also have some huge single 18" scoops loaded with JBL E 155's. JBL never made an 18 scoop right? I think its just an oversized 15" scoop. Itls like 5 feet high. BTW I am running a MacroTech 3600 on 2 2x18 2241 loded subs and hope its enough power?? Thanks Mark

[Lee in Montreal]

Just got a pair of 2241 HPL loaded JBL cabs anyone familar with these?? I also have some huge single 18" scoops loaded with JBL E 155's. JBL never made an 18 scoop right? I think its just an oversized 15" scoop. Itls like 5 feet high. BTW I am running a MacroTech 3600 on 2 2x18 2241 loded subs and hope its enough power?? Thanks Mark

You got my interest, as well as many others' I think...
Please, please, please. Show us pictures of your 18" scoops. Indeed not made by JBL.

Is your twin 18' sub a TCB?

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=29295&stc=1&d=1194323532

[wrager]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330636053441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I bought this recently. Not a bad deal at all!

[Lee in Montreal]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330636053441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I bought this recently. Not a bad deal at all! And what about the 18" scoops ? :D

[baldrick]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/330636053441?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

I bought this recently. Not a bad deal at all!

I couldn't agree more, $450 for a 5749 with 2x2242 is a GREAT deal!

[beaulieu]

Sorry took so long to reply. These were made by someone in the 80's. Loaded with E 155 JBL 18.

[Lee in Montreal]

Reviving this thread, because of the subject of scoop with e155 drivers. Sure it's a bass guitar driver, but what's not too like when that driver has a high Bl (25N/A), very low Qts (0,20) and decent Vas (425). It requires a smaller back chamber than a 2240, and must be snappier too. Anyone else has fitted an e155 in a scoop?