Cetec Gauss 4583A Repair manuals, pdf's?

[spudler]

Hi all I have 2 of the 4583A's I found the specs .pdf for them which helped me get the proper X-over and Sine Wave frequencys to test them. I found they don't really do much under 40HZ. I am looking for more technical/Repair/disassembly info if available.
I am looking at replacing the Surrounds with foam rather then the stiff tar paper stuff it has.
I also have been missing the dust caps for a few years though they were not in use I need to know if there is a way to remove the motor (magnet) and clean out all the goo that is probably collected in the space between teh Voice coil and the center thingy with the 5/8's looking bolt in it. Is that what holds the 100 pound magnet on?
I have seen a boat load of 15" drivers with 80 oz or 200 oz magnets an dthey act like those are huge.
so what is the magnet on these 480 oz, 720 oz? I can weigh it if I can figure out how to diss assemble and clean without ruining it. I do plan to replace the dust caps and surrounds like mentioned so I am not worried about ruining the surrounds. I do want it spotlessly clean inside before I install a new dust cap though.
I have read that the screen type dust caps are better for these due to a cooling issue??
does that allow air to cool the coil if it can get in from the front through the cap??

[Earl K]

I think your best to turn your 4583A(s) into 4583F(s) is to buy some aftermarket recone kits from Power & Light Productions . (http://stores.ebay.com/Power-And-Light-Productions)
( Though I'll admit this is just a guess on my part )

They should give you some guidance on how to correctly install their recone kit .

Before buying, I'd ask them at least the following questions :




(1) What are the TS parameters of a speaker reconed with their kit ? ( then compare to the original T-S parameters to make sure they are close )


(2) Is the winding depth of their kit the same as the original ( & just what is that winding depth ) ?
<> cheers :)

[spudler]

That amazing I just found them also and was sending them a message about the kits. i believe he first asked if I had 4 or 8 ohm speakers and i never thought the 4583A came other then 8 ohm.
I also am looking for the dust caps and the largest I can find are 4 1/8 . my voice coil is that size i think I need 4 3/4" any ideas?? or can I run without any?

[Earl K]

,,,,snip ,,,,,
I also am looking for the dust caps and the largest I can find are 4 1/8 . my voice coil is that size i think I need 4 3/4" any ideas?? or can I run without any?

You need dust caps for protection against bits of crap getting into the gap / grinding against the coil and eventually causing a failure .

So no, you don't want to run without dust-caps .

I suspect what they provide as stock, will fit / but if you desire larger , they most likely can supply over-size dust-caps .

<. cheers :)

[spudler]

I figured as much about the dust grinding etc. that is another reason I need some info on these as they sat for 5 years without any caps so there has to be a bout load of crud in there I would like to wipe out or however I can get in there before I cap it off.

[Earl K]

I figured as much about the dust grinding etc. that is another reason I need some info on these as they sat for 5 years without any caps so there has to be a bout load of crud in there I would like to wipe out or however I can get in there before I cap it off.

Here read this ; Speaker Recone Guide (http://www.bcspeakers.com/PDF/reconing.pdf) .

<> cheers :)

[spudler]

Thanks. looks like i will have to wait till I get a recone kit to do much. I have some canned air for the compters etc. i will use that to do what I can I doubt I could fit any tape between the coil and the magnet so I wont even try ..
my luck there would be a spot where the coil wire is not covered in the plastic like it is supposed to be and it would catch and ruin it.

[Ronald57]

I think your best to turn your 4583A(s) into 4583F(s) is to buy some aftermarket recone kits from Power & Light Productions . (http://stores.ebay.com/Power-And-Light-Productions)
( Though I'll admit this is just a guess on my part )

They should give you some guidance on how to correctly install their recone kit .

Before buying, I'd ask them at least the following questions :




(1) What are the TS parameters of a speaker reconed with their kit ? ( then compare to the original T-S parameters to make sure they are close )



(2) Is the winding depth of their kit the same as the original ( & just what is that winding depth ) ?

<> cheers :)

Our kits recreate the specs of the XR series woofers (19mm winding depth on the 2831/4283/4543/4583/4843/4883A). The ONLY change in the XR series compared to the older ones is that the spider system was improved. The spiders in the older speakers were designed to "lock up" thereby preventing the woofers from "bottoming out" and sustaining mechanical damage. the 6mm Xmax specification in the XXX3 series was where the spider actually maxed out. Consequently distortion went through the roof. The XR series spiders permitted one way excursion beyond 6mm vastly lowering distortion due to mechanical limitations. The "built in" excursion capability of the frame then became the limiting factor. Gauss frames across the entire line permitted only about 19mm or 3/4 inch of movement range. When operated within that range we've found power handling has actually gone up to approximately 500W/RMS, so, there is where we'll rate them. Our test amplifier is capable of far exceeding 2 killowatts on undistorted peaks (RMS + 6db crest factor) which Gauss specified their woofers had to handle to achieve their listed power rating. Their power test ran for 10 minutes, so, that's how we do it.

[John]

That amazing I just found them also and was sending them a message about the kits. i believe he first asked if I had 4 or 8 ohm speakers and i never thought the 4583A came other then 8 ohm.
I also am looking for the dust caps and the largest I can find are 4 1/8 . my voice coil is that size i think I need 4 3/4" any ideas?? or can I run without any?


How bout some pictures?:D

[spudler]

Pictures?? there in the cabs so you wont be able to see much. maybe I will remove them and get some pics for you all.

[Ronald57]

That amazing I just found them also and was sending them a message about the kits. i believe he first asked if I had 4 or 8 ohm speakers and i never thought the 4583A came other then 8 ohm.
I also am looking for the dust caps and the largest I can find are 4 1/8 . my voice coil is that size i think I need 4 3/4" any ideas?? or can I run without any?

We can supply you with various sizes of dustcaps. Something close to the size of the voice coil itself is best. 4 3/4" is a good size to go with. If you get a dustcap from someone else use a hard paper not a felt breather cap. The felt cap will not allow the voice to cool properly.

[spudler]

Ok thanks. If I remember correctly the original ones were a plastic of some sort because they used to rattle/crackle because they were cracked and it was a horrible sound they made.

[Stevieb]

Great to find this forum, as I recently acquired several folded horns: two Earthquakes, with CV-188EB's in them, two Peavey CH-4C high-freq. horns with Peavey 22A drivers, one folded horn with a Gauss 4583A 15" in it, and 5 folded horn cabs, unloaded. All the drivers are working, and although they seem to be rather inefficient (tested them with a QSC USA 1310, 650 watts @ 4 ohms, power amp-) they all play well.

I don't doubt you folks know much more about these speakers (and speakers in general) than I.

I have no desire to re-cone them, but it's good to know re-cone kits are available. If you could answer some questions, I would be grateful:

Where can I find a speaker to match the Gauss? Are there other brands that are "close enough?" I will be using them for live sound.

What's with the apparent in-efficiency? What can I do about that? From what I read here and elsewhere, I am already pushing all the drivers harder than I should be (I was brief) so more power wouldn't do, would it?

I am told in another forum that the more folded horns, the better. Really? Should I put drivers in the rest of 'em, or should I sell the lot and get fewer, more modern cabs/drivers?

If the answer is to sell 'em- anybody want some? :)

[spudler]

Not sure about folded cabs and such. I have 2 of the 4583A's I have one in each old soundtech PA cabs. They were 2 way cabs but I realized I was weak in mid frequency response so I added a 5 1/4" Mid driver.
As far as the 4583A being inefficient I am not sure as to why it would be unless it is blown as I was only running a Peavey CS-800 stereo one channel to each of the 15" speakers and they did fine. I was only able to push a little over 200 watts max since they are 8 ohm speakers addad another CS-800 and bridged each amp per speaker and they realley woke up.
I have a spec sheet for the Cetec Gauss, I will attach it for you.
as far as finding another 4583A It may take along time and I bet the price would shock you.
I have only seen one ever for sale since I started looking a little over a year ago and they were asking $500 for it.

[spudler]

Ronald57, Dustcaps?
I seen yo mentioned to get hard paper ones so the voice coil could cool properly? does air somehow get through the paper or are your referring to the felt being like insulation and holding heat in better then thin paper would?
the reason I ask is when I installed my Dustcaps I also bought some of the Wet look speaker cone covering and protector and I put it on the cones real well and I did the dust caps to protect them and to make them match the cones.
I would of done both sides had I been able to remove teh cones without destroying the speakers, I suppose when I recone them I will apply to cones before I install them.

[John]

Great to find this forum, as I recently acquired several folded horns: two Earthquakes, with CV-188EB's in them, two Peavey CH-4C high-freq. horns with Peavey 22A drivers, one folded horn with a Gauss 4583A 15" in it, and 5 folded horn cabs, unloaded. All the drivers are working, and although they seem to be rather inefficient (tested them with a QSC USA 1310, 650 watts @ 4 ohms, power amp-) they all play well.

I don't doubt you folks know much more about these speakers (and speakers in general) than I.

I have no desire to re-cone them, but it's good to know re-cone kits are available. If you could answer some questions, I would be grateful:

Where can I find a speaker to match the Gauss? Are there other brands that are "close enough?" I will be using them for live sound.

What's with the apparent in-efficiency? What can I do about that? From what I read here and elsewhere, I am already pushing all the drivers harder than I should be (I was brief) so more power wouldn't do, would it?

I am told in another forum that the more folded horns, the better. Really? Should I put drivers in the rest of 'em, or should I sell the lot and get fewer, more modern cabs/drivers?

If the answer is to sell 'em- anybody want some? :)


:useless:


Well not exactly but pictures are always welcome:bouncy:

[John]

Ronald57, Dustcaps?
I seen yo mentioned to get hard paper ones so the voice coil could cool properly? does air somehow get through the paper or are your referring to the felt being like insulation and holding heat in better then thin paper would?
the reason I ask is when I installed my Dustcaps I also bought some of the Wet look speaker cone covering and protector and I put it on the cones real well and I did the dust caps to protect them and to make them match the cones.
I would of done both sides had I been able to remove teh cones without destroying the speakers, I suppose when I recone them I will apply to cones before I install them.


Please don't take this the wrong way but you kind of destroyed them by using the wet look stuff on them.:no_wag:

[spudler]

The dust caps? Well I better buy another set then. they were pretty cheap I think $5 for both of them

[hjames]

Dustcaps?
I seen you mentioned to get hard paper ones so the voice coil could cool properly? does air somehow get through the paper or are your referring to the felt being like insulation and holding heat in better then thin paper would?
the reason I ask is when I installed my Dustcaps I also bought some of the Wet look speaker cone covering and protector and I put it on the cones real well and I did the dust caps to protect them and to make them match the cones.
I would of done both sides had I been able to remove the cones without destroying the speakers, I suppose when I recone them I will apply to cones before I install them.

The dust caps? Well I better buy another set then. they were pretty cheap I think $5 for both of them
No, I believe he meant that when you treated the CONES with the wet look stuff you changed their properties and that destroyed them ... When you recone, them its best not to add anything not originally used by the speaker designer.

[spudler]

No actually I was very impressed by how much better the speakers sound now compared to when they had nothing on them. I believe since they were so old and were not taken the best care of nor stored in the best areas it caused the paper to become weak and the coating stiffened them up and improved the sound quality drastically. before I used the wet look product I was thinking of reconing them now I am more then happy with the sound quality and will only recone them if the voice coils go bad.
The bass sounds used to be kinda boomy and not what I was hoping for now it is a real nice bass sound and on music with faster double bass kicks they are really snappy and sound like what I was hoping they would.

[Jamesspudler]

I know it has been years since last post but really needed to update all.
I am still using those 4583A Speakers .
Matter of fact I know use a CS 1000X Bridged and Summed to power both of them connected ( I believe as parallel) to create 4 Ohms.
I can get 1500 watts out of my Peavey CS 1000X this way
At one time I was using a CS 800 for each Speaker Bridged at 8 ohms
So technically I am about 50 watts shy of that setup now and I must say I have never been so impressed with a set of what I thought were Junk speakers in my life
I can still literally shake stuff off my walls and cause ceiling to act like it is snowing inside.
Once I finally got the Behringer X-over finely dialed in along with my Alesis M-EQ 230
these speakers have never sounded so clear, or loud or had such organ churning Bass ever.
Only thing I can compare was a Tool concert in 96 where they played some low bass sounds at intro and it started with you feeling it then hearing it and I can
pull that off.
Still about 20Hz not much there but at 30 hz that is when it goes Bat Shoot crazy
I have yet to try as I literally cannot get enough main current to the amps to pull off full 100% Power but I bet I can hear this system 3 blocks away at 7-11
Of course the Police do not look kindly on such loud music especially since I listen to things Like Lamb of God, trivium, slipknot etc.

But I had to update as these are still booming with nothing more then the Wet look Stuff and new dust caps.
Matter of fact my new project is I was given a pair of 15" Cetec Gauss Speakers that are in the 5000 Series and having issues finding much info on them.
They seem to have 4" voice coils. weigh about the same as my 4583's but I guess are 16 ohm speakers.
]One seems ok one I get a Open circuit when tested like something came un hookered internally.
Stupid me I have them put away at moment or I woudl get exact model #
Really feel like an butt now for mentioning them without all the proper info on them
I will see if I can loacate anything in computer from when I got them and update what they are actually ASAP

[Jamesspudler]

Ha Ha found a pic. they are 5642 15" speakers75331

So anyone have any Data on these bad boys?
Why the change in model # 4583 made sense
4" vc 15" speaker, 8 ohm etc
5642 is wacked.
maybe starts with 15", 16 Ohm, 4" VC and the 2 for its intended purpose??
plus anyone know of rebuild/recone kits for these?
I have another Peavey CS 1000X I am dying to hook up and just prove I can go way overboard for a home stereo system LLOLMAO

[Earl K]

Yes, I agree that the older numbering convention is pretty non-intuitive ( and that's what those 5642's of yours are / they're an older generation of Gauss ).

A Multi-Meter will confirm the 16 ohms impedance for you ( ie; it'll read @ 11- 12 ohms if your speakers are 16 ohm ).

They are the 16 ohm equivalent of the 8 ohm 4582 ( so 4562 ) . They use an alnico magnet.

They're a short coil version of your existing 4583's ( but still have the standard 4 1/8" diameter voice-coil ) .

re; Recones
- You might of noticed that the eBay link I posted some 6+ years ago now shows that company is no longer active ( at least on eBay ).

That's really a shame because the only other option ( for the DIYer ) is not a good option for any novice ( like yourself ).

Your latest acquisitions can be reconed into 4583's ( since they share the same 4 1/8" VC diameter ).

Gauss 4583 Recone Kit (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/gauss-4583a-4583b-15-aftermarket-recone-kit/)

or kept as 4582's ( which were more efficient / but have a lot less available cone travel, ie Xmax )

- the comparable JBL model to the 4583 is the 2234 while the older JBL D140 roughly equates to the Gauss 4582 ( the short coil really meant it was best suited for horn-loading or M.I. work ).

http://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/R4582-AMRK-2-300x300.jpg (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/gauss-4582-15-aftermarket-recone-kit/)



I would suggest you find a reconing outfit with connections to these same aftermarket parts ( as used by the people in my new link ) and have pros do the work.

:)

PS; Glad to hear those other 4583s are still rockin for you.

Here's a link to the "deep" VC SpeakerX supplies ( it comes from MWA, the lack of any former venting is a bit of a concern IMO );

http://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/VC1990-8-300x300.jpg (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/4-120-voice-coil-vc1990/)

[Jamesspudler]

Thanks Earl K. you've been a great help.
I know I've been kicking myself for putting off buying those original recone kits you posted a link to years ago.
Now though I see new data.
Sorry for the delay in replying I did not realize anyone had replied. I need to get my notifications worked out.
will look at new info and be sure to update you all when I figure whats next.
Still trying to figure out what the Magnets weigh as I see newer speakers listing like 70 oZ and 200 Oz Somethings.
Ill get exact phrase and post that in a bit :) thanks again

[maxserg]

Yes, I agree that the older numbering convention is pretty non-intuitive ( and that's what those 5642's of yours are / they're an older generation of Gauss ).

A Multi-Meter will confirm the 16 ohms impedance for you ( ie; it'll read @ 11- 12 ohms if your speakers are 16 ohm ).

They are the 16 ohm equivalent of the 8 ohm 4582 ( so 4562 ) . They use an alnico magnet.

They're a short coil version of your existing 4583's ( but still have the standard 4 1/8" diameter voice-coil ) .

re; Recones
- You might of noticed that the eBay link I posted some 6+ years ago now shows that company is no longer active ( at least on eBay ).

That's really a shame because the only other option ( for the DIYer ) is not a good option for any novice ( like yourself ).

Your latest acquisitions can be reconed into 4583's ( since they share the same 4 1/8" VC diameter ).

Gauss 4583 Recone Kit (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/gauss-4583a-4583b-15-aftermarket-recone-kit/)

or kept as 4582's ( which were more efficient / but have a lot less available cone travel, ie Xmax )

- the comparable JBL model to the 4583 is the 2234 while the older JBL D140 roughly equates to the Gauss 4582 ( the short coil really meant it was best suited for horn-loading or M.I. work ).

http://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/R4582-AMRK-2-300x300.jpg (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/gauss-4582-15-aftermarket-recone-kit/)



I would suggest you find a reconing outfit with connections to these same aftermarket parts ( as used by the people in my new link ) and have pros do the work.

:)

PS; Glad to hear those other 4583s are still rockin for you.

Here's a link to the "deep" VC SpeakerX supplies ( it comes from MWA, the lack of any former venting is a bit of a concern IMO );

http://reconingspeakers.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/VC1990-8-300x300.jpg (http://reconingspeakers.com/product/4-120-voice-coil-vc1990/)
Weren’t they had 4-1/4 inches dia voicecoils?

[Earl K]

I just measured an older spare-part ( short-coil assembly ) that I have here.

The Voice-Coil ( diameter ) is approx. 4 1/8" . That's center/top of metal former to center of former .

Adding in the winding/width means the outer diameter has grown to a bit more than 4.125" ( though not approaching 4.25" > it looks like 4 3/16" ) .

Considering those dimensions I could see the gap ( outside to outside measurement of the VC gap ) going to 4" 4/16" ( or 4.25" iow ) .

Unfortunately, I don't have a magnet assembly to measure the gap's outer diameter.

:)

.

[RMC]

Just checked in my stuff.

Gauss 45xx series have VC dia. rated 4 1/8", but the 15" from 35xx series have VC dia. rated 3".

As for VC length: 4583A, 4543A, 4583F, 4543F all have 0.75". The MI/horn load ones referred to are higher sensitivity & shorter VC: 4582 and 4562 have 0.31". Finally, the 4580 and 4560 have 0.45". Have no such data for the 35xx series. Regards,

Richard