Time 4 a new project

[kartsmart]

Thinking some thing like this
subs
E-145
2397 smith horn
2" compression driver
2405
could E-145 cross over to 2397 or will it require a 10" mid :blink:

[Robh3606]

As long as the 2397 can get down to 800-900hz it should be fine, they make a hell of a 2 way in the Urei/JBL 801C driver,

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=10655


Rob:)

[Mr. Widget]

Thinking some thing like this
subs
E-145
2397 smith horn
2" compression driver
2405
could E-145 cross over to 2397 or will it require a 10" mid :blink:I think that will make a great system... you might need a sub if you like music with deep bass, but it should really kick and crossed over at 800Hz and 10KHz it should work quite well.


If you are comfortable with network design, great! If not, you might go active at 800Hz and use the top end of the 3155 network (do some searches here) for the 2397/2205 crossover.


Widget

[kartsmart]

What baskets can be used for E-145s is there still recones
maybe looking for a pair of 2" tad drivers if the right pair can be found at the right price ?

[Robh3606]

What baskets can be used for E-145s

An E-145

Rob:)

[HCSGuy]

The E145-8 is its own beast. C8RE145 recone kits only fit in the E145 frame. All parts for this woofer are NLA. :(

You will have to scour the used market and practice your patience... good luck! In the end, I think your project as imagined should be awesome. At some point, I'm going to try the same build, but I may try experimenting with a 2" phenolic driver.

[kartsmart]

How well will the Tad 4001 preform on the smith horns VS. 2441 with the diamand edge surrounds diaphagms

[Mr. Widget]

How well will the Tad 4001 preform on the smith horns VS. 2441 with the diamand edge surrounds diaphagmsI've used both on those horns and the TAD is noticeably smoother. Here is a plot comparing the two... they look quite similar, and they sound rather similar, but the 4001 has better detail resolution, sounds smoother, and has slightly better highs. I would still use a tweeter even with the TAD.


Widget

[kartsmart]

Does anyone know if a Charged Coupled Crossover have been design for this combo.
Been searching but have not found it ? :blink:

[Mr. Widget]

Does anyone know if a Charged Coupled Crossover have been design for this combo.
Been searching but have not found it ? :blink:Doubt if anyone has done one, and if they have I don't remember seeing one posted.


Widget

[Jakob]

Check out what John W did some years ago: http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=5951&page=1&pp=40

I think he was using Giskards charge-coupled version of N333:

http://audioheritage.csdco.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=166&highlight=4333%2FS300%2FL300+equivalent+bandbass+c ircuit

I have for some years used the cc'd N333 together with E145, 2441/2450 with different horns (not the 2397) and 2405. They sound nice with these drivers and maybe they can be something for you to start out with.

Good luck, and regards!

[kartsmart]

Thanks Jakob for the reply / looks like I have a lot of reading to do, I'm just in the planing stage

[kartsmart]

Going on road trip soon to check out some 4628B road boxes , how do I tell if these are org. E-145 or if they been reconed aftermarket or k-145s

[kartsmart]

Scored A pair or 4628bs for cheep, the pair had only one e-145 the other was replaced with 2225H , 2 good 2118s , 2404s no cracked lens but blowen diaphragms.
just received the other E-145 in real nice shape from a member ( thanks Scott ).
I have to order new 2405 diaphragms for the 2404s and latter will use them in the 2405s when I get the horns and 2441 drivers. for now I will play with the 4628b to see how they sound . latter will use the boxes for test with the 2397s and 2405s on top.
I still have 4 TAD 1602s I might use for subs or sell them off for 2245s what do you all think ?

[kartsmart]

I'm trying to make up my mind the 2397 horn as planed or the A-290 tad clones.
they say the 2397s should crossover near 1k to sound the best but I will be using them down around 700-750 Hz to crossover to the E-145s


Or - use the A-290s crossed over a little lower say 600 Hz

I have not heard the tad horns so some advice would be helpful.

I will be making my own horns so cost would not be a factor.

:blink:

[caladois]

A simple two way can match too :

[kartsmart]

my new diaphragms came in for my 4628Bs, getting ready to soider up the leads and decided to do a quick search on witch the black dot goes to the black or red , that's when I was confused :blink: pre 90s diaphrams it was one way and later the other way? witch way should it be for the 4628b
thanks in advance

[kartsmart]

did I do something wrong ??:banghead:

[dkalsi]

I'm trying to make up my mind the 2397 horn as planed or the A-290 tad clones.
they say the 2397s should crossover near 1k to sound the best but I will be using them down around 700-750 Hz to crossover to the E-145s


Or - use the A-290s crossed over a little lower say 600 Hz

I have not heard the tad horns so some advice would be helpful.

I will be making my own horns so cost would not be a factor.

:blink:

Have you decided which horn you are going to use (2397 or A-290s)?

[kartsmart]

Have you decided which horn you are going to use (2397 or A-290s)?

dkalsi Not yet, I was hoping to get some input from forum members on the best choice for the horn / but it looks like there little intrust in this project.

[Robh3606]

but it looks like there little intrust in this project.

I wouldn't assume that. How many people have first hand experience with both horns you want to use?? I have not used either one. Asside from that I would use whatever can cross you over lower. That gives you more flexability as far as the crossover point. Either one you could drop a 2405 on top off if you need more from 10K up. In the Urei 801C driver the crossover point is probably in the 800hz range.

Rob:)

[kartsmart]

I am going to play around a little with these 4628b before moving on with my project.
could anyone steer me in the right direction what crossover settings and over laps to start with ?
I will be using the Behringer DCX2496 crossover , crown D60 for the 2404s, crown PS200 for the 2118s and crown PS400 for the E145s
This is just for fun to see if there is a improvement ? :bouncy:

[JeffW]

The cut sheet (http://www.jblpro.com/pub/obsolete/Cabaret_Series2.pdf) says 800 and 3000, not sure about the slopes. The 2404H might not like 3000 much, the Cabarets used a 2404H-1 (2402 phragm) to get to 3khz IIRC.

[grumpy]

crossover (LF/MF) is essentially acoustic, in that the E145 is run full range (allowed to roll off),
and the 2118 has a single capacitor to slowly roll off the low end. 2404 has 12dB/oct network
for better driver protection and an L-pad for level control... that's about it. Sometimes simple is
all that's required. The schematic is available online at jblproservice.com

[kartsmart]

Well I have played long enough with the 4628s, I do have to say the do sound good for as simple of a system they are. all I can say they are fast, I do like the E-145.
I scored a nice pair of 2441s and alnico slots, so I now have all my hardware.
I am going to build up a pair or more of the A-290 horns first, after pricing out the lumber and the amount of labor to build these I am leaning toed casting them, has anyone with experience in cement casting horns ? lets hear some input please

[JeffW]

Now don't get discouraged if nobody pops in with cement horn casting advice :)

[kartsmart]

OK :confused:

[yggdrasil]

I actually built a pair of round exponentials in concrete some 20 years ago.

I made the inner form on a lathe. The form was first painted and then greased in order to make it slippery enough to part from the dried concrete. I used a relatively dry concrete mix and just built my way from the mouth to the throat, with the form standing on the mouth. I did not build an outer form.

The one thing I regret was not making a mounting form, so fitting a driver was a real difficult task afterwards. If I were to do it again I would also try building an outer form and using a wet concrete.

The horns were very heavy. I have not measured them, so performance is unknown.

[Earl K]

I simply recommend having Woody make you a pair in wood ( Yuichi A-290s ) , that you then purchase from him .

http://www.miwis-bastelbu.de/Galerien/MiWi-Horn/slides/MiWi-Horn012.jpg


Here's the web site of the fellow who made the mold pictured above . Click the following pic !


http://www.miwis-bastelbu.de/assets/images/MiWi_s.jpg (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miwis-bastelbu.de%2Findex.html)

The fellow is a construction engineer .


And here's a thread over at DIY (http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/129734-concrete-horns.html#post1654822) where "MiWi" talks about his various creations, made in concrete .


<> cheers

[louped garouv]

Here's the web site of the fellow who made the mold pictured above . Click the following pic !


[/URL]

The fellow is a construction engineer .


And here's a thread [URL="http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/129734-concrete-horns.html#post1654822"]over at DIY (http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=de&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.miwis-bastelbu.de%2Findex.html) where "MiWi" talks about his creations in concrete .


<> cheers


awesome photos, both of them

[kartsmart]

The one thing I regret was not making a mounting form, so fitting a driver was a real difficult task afterwards.

yes this would be very easy to do , I would cast 4 threaded bushing's in place to attach the horn adapter.

[kartsmart]

I simply recommend having Woody make you a pair in wood ( Yuichi A-290s ) , that you then purchase from him .
Earl I have seen Woody's work posted and its great. But to just buy one, What would be the fun in that :dont-know:

[kartsmart]

I have just completed my first cast , I would think it came out 99.9% perfect.
There doesn't seem to be much in trust but if someone is I could display how it was made.

[dkalsi]

I have just completed my first cast , I would think it came out 99.9% perfect.
There doesn't seem to be much in trust but if someone is I could display how it was made.

Pics?

[Altec Best]

A simple two way can match too :

Love those bass bins :applaud: They look awesome !!!

[kartsmart]

I had time off over the holiday,so I used the time to finish up my A-290s horns. I was going to make them out of a concrete cast, But ended up with concrete upper and lower and sides and veins in walnut ,trust me this was not the easy way. but did turn out quit good.
next I would like to set up a passive crossover between the 2441 and 2405, any good ideas

[dkalsi]

...so I used the time to finish up my A-290s horns. I was going to make them out of a concrete cast, But ended up with concrete upper and lower and sides and veins in walnut ....

Any pictures?

[Mannermusic]

I had time off over the holiday,so I used the time to finish up my A-290s horns. I was going to make them out of a concrete cast, But ended up with concrete upper and lower and sides and veins in walnut ,trust me this was not the easy way. but did turn out quit good.
next I would like to set up a passive crossover between the 2441 and 2405, any good ideas

I would try the UHV section borrowed from Giskard's recent 3155 "transformerless" circuit design. It's under his DIY4345 thread. I'd go without the 9V bias for starters to make final tweaking easier. It boils down to a 1.0 + 1.8 uF cap in series with a .16 mH parallel inductor between the two (plus L pads as req'd). KISS.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27199-DIY-quot-4345-quot-Project&p=292188&viewfull=1#post292188

[kartsmart]

I would try the UHV section borrowed from Giskard's recent 3155 "transformerless" circuit design. It's under his DIY4345 thread. I'd go without the 9V bias for starters to make final tweaking easier. It boils down to a 1.0 + 1.8 uF cap in series with a .16 mH parallel inductor between the two (plus L pads as req'd). KISS.

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?27199-DIY-quot-4345-quot-Project&p=292188&viewfull=1#post292188

Yes this is what I wanted, now all I have to do is come up with drawing and parts list.
Has anyone already done this and have a finalized print and parts list ? I am planing on using the Ashley XR 1001 biamped between the E-145 or tad 1602 and 2441, thanks mannermusic

[kartsmart]

This is the set-up I have been trying
HF= 2405 crown D-60 LR 48db @ 10k
MF=2441 crown PS-200 LR 48 @ 670-10K
LF- E-145 crown PS-400 @ 670 LR 48 (4628b flipped upside down, A-290 on top and slots on top of horns
crossover Ultradrive pro DCX2496
After getting some seat time everything sounds wrong , I tried different xover filters, time alignment and phase sweep with little to no improvement , then moved xover points around still no improvement, The system lacked sound stage and image.
Then I thought I drop off the slots 2405 and do just a 2-way crossed over at 670 LR-48.
then everything fell into place , sound stage , image all improved but with the lack of the bash of the cymbals. I have to ask why , I know its been said that the slots are better passive than active but can it make this much difference ?