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JBL 4645
02-25-2010, 09:08 AM
I posted up the original material from the In-70mm site. Wow I’m practically drooling :nutz: over this while listening to the “WEST SIDE STORY” CD

I have laserdisc with most of its crazy dialogue panning Dolby stereo matrix mix and the first edition DVD with a slight re-mix of the crazy wild dialogue panning which is very rare for one to hear on DVD bluray today of these classic 70mm road show releases.


Original site link
http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/index.htm

After a number of years of searching and waiting, the initial "payoff" came to the Egyptian Theatre, in Hollywood, on Wednesday, Feb. 17, 2010: The MMR-8 digital player rolled and ... to our wondering ears, we were finally able to hear, once again, and in a large venue, the full original mix of "West Side Story" in genuine 5-across, Todd-A0 format stereo!

At this point, we were watching it without the picture. The DTS playback discs are not ready yet, and won't be for just a little bit longer. It turns out that 2010 is (can you belive it!?!?) the 50th anniversary of the film! MGM is currently working on the who/what/when/where/how any kind of "special re-presentation" of the film might happen during 2010, so, until those details are fully sorted out, the immediate presentation with the full sound is on hold. But it's safe to assume that there will be a major "awareness" campaign launched before too long, and that subsequent 70mm screenings will be available in full Todd-AO splendor, and very soon.

And how did this all come about? It was not easy. I (and others) were chasing promising leads as to where we might find the missing original mag tracks, and it was more frustrations than gratifications. As they say, much of "film restoration" is, really, just good detective work! But ... it eventually paid off, big time! Following is the description of this saga, as written up by the famed audio restoration company, Chace Audio, about the whole WSS project (and with a few extra photos supplied by yours truly):

A CHACE AUDIO BY DELUXE NEWSLETTER FEB 2010

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/images/wss.jpg
Five speakers configured across the front of the Rick Chace Theatre allowed the engineer to accurately scrutinize the restored 6-track "West Side Story" as it was originally intended to be heard by audiences in 1961.

"West Side Story", the musical adaptation of William Shakespeare’s star-crossed lovers Romeo and Juliet set against the youth gang scene of New York in the 1950s, won ten Academy Awards® including best picture for producer/director Robert Wise. Released in 1961 in both 35mm and 70mm Super Panavision, the film helped to establish 6-track stereo sound for the 70mm format, yet the original ground breaking 6-track soundtrack has not been heard in the past 30 years.

According to Hollywood lore, legendary sound mixer Murray Spivak convinced director Robert Wise to adopt the new 6-track sound format L, Lc, C, Rc, R, S (Left, Left-center, Center, Right-center, Right, Surround) for the film, even though a 4-track LCRS (Left, Center, Right, Surround) mix had already been started. Wise took Spivak’s recommendation, and the result was a soundtrack that won the Oscar® for best achievement in sound. However, audiences have not heard the original Academy Award winning 6-track mix since 1981.

When a 6-track version was needed for the 20th anniversary of the film, Wise decided to create a new one from a 1978 LCRS 4-track master. This evidence was clearly indicated on the labels of the 1981 6-track mags, which stated “spread from 4-track source 7-18-81.”

In order to make six channels from the four channels of the LCRS mag, the Left and Center channels were used to create the Left-center (Lc), and the Right and Center channels made the Right-center (Rc) of the 6-track L, Lc, C, Rc, R, S mag. While this is a well-known mixing practice, the perceived stereo separation in music, dialogue, and sound effects between a true 6-track and one created from a 4-track source is readily apparent. This is especially true for orchestral scores.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/images/DSC00269.jpg
The Tascam player, in action, showing the various tracks playing at various levels. Image by Paul Rayton

This difference in the mixes was demonstrated to Chris Lane, Acquisition Manager for MGM Technical Services, by projectionist Paul Rayton at the Egyptian Theater in Los Angeles. Rayton, an avid 70mm fan, had access to several reels of an original 70mm mag striped print of "West Side Story" from the Academy Archive. After hearing the results, Lane, along with Dee Dee Dreyer, Director of Inventory and Research, and Leah Tuttle, Coordinator of Inventory and Research for MGM Technical Services, set out on a year long mission to find the missing 6-track mags.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/images/DSC00268.jpg
The Tascam MMR-8 solid-state audio system. Image by Paul Rayton

In addition to poring over incomplete MGM sound inventory records, Lane also visited the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences® Margaret Herrick Library to review an oral history by Murray Spivak, recorded when he was in his 90s. The interview supports the fact that Wise agreed to make a true 6-track mix for the 70mm version of the film.

In addition to Spivak’s recollection of the sound mix, Chace Audio by Deluxe has over 20 years of post-production servicing history on "West Side Story". Chace’s records clearly show the existence of 6-track music and effect stems but no 6-track composite mix earlier than the 1981 version. So Lane, Dreyer, and Tuttle began an exhaustive search at MGM’s local film storage sites to find the missing material. Examining nearly every element that was lacking in clear labeling or that had not been accessed prior to 1981, they discovered over 15 cartons of "West Side Story" elements. The deteriorating cellulose acetate mags exhibited various levels of vinegar syndrome, so they were moved to Chace’s vinegar mag handling facilities for inspection, cleaning, and audio evaluation.

Of the more than 100 individual reels, one of the most promising sets was labeled February 21, 1978 – pre-dating the work done by Wise in 1981. The pay-off came during the physical inspection process, when the reels’ leaders were found to actually indicate production dates of June, July, and August 1961. A subsequent audio evaluation confirmed that these reels were in fact the original 6-track stereo English masters. However, this initial inventory review did not yield a complete 21-reel set, so Lane requested inspection of all the remaining reels.


http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/images/DSC00263.jpg
Dolby DMA-8 display of the audio channels. Channel "7" in the display is "Left Extra" (or Todd-AO channel 2), and channel "8" is "Right Extra", or Todd AO channel 4. "Surround can be seen playing out as mono surround (both sides the same), consistent with the original Todd-AO specification." Image by Paul Rayton

Further evaluation found additional reels of the original 6-track composite mags along with the earliest known 4-track LCRS mag – a complete set made March 20th and 21st, 1962. Additionally, 6-track M&E (Music and Effects) mags–with and without vocals and various pre-mix elements–were identified during this evaluation. Leaving no stone unturned, Lane also located three complete original 70mm mag stripe prints; two sets of the vintage prints were found in European archives and one set resided with a private collector in the United States. These three prints were brought in for a 100% evaluation.

Once the elements had been evaluated, Project Manager Ron Bonk and Project Coordinator Jordan Perry created a preservation/restoration matrix outlining the various preferred sources and the options they offered. MGM determined that restored 6-track and 4-track composite elements, as well as a 6-track M&E with vocals, should be created. Though the evaluation of all of the elements found the missing English 6-track mix, the set was still not 100% complete. Fortunately, the material that was missing could be substituted from the 6-track M&E elements.

http://www.in70mm.com/news/2010/wss/images/DSC00258.jpg
It took a jumble of cables and connectors to attach all the various channels into the right amps for playback!. Image by Paul Rayton

During the evaluation phase, Lane ordered a Clarity™ Audio Restoration by plangent processes (Clarity) test to ascertain the improvement Clarity would bring to the nearly 50 year old mags. Not surprisingly, the acetate cellulose mags were suffering from vinegar syndrome and exhibited problems like shrinkage and edge curl. This kind of physical deterioration is often a prime culprit in causing wow and flutter in vintage material. Clarity is able to correct the audio thanks to an ingenious digital non-uniform sampling algorithm that re-times and stabilizes the audio. The result is a soundtrack with greater perceived depth and fidelity. After reviewing the positive results of the Clarity test, Brian Geer, Sr. Preservation Engineer, made Clarity transfers for all the magnetic elements.

Brian San Marco, Sr. Digital Audio Restoration Engineer, processed the various 6-track, 4-track, and M&E reels with the Audio Cube AC-5. The powerful sound restoration tools of the AC-5 were used to correct the problems of hiss, pops, dropouts, edit bumps, and distortion.

After the tracks were restored, Chris Reynolds, Mixer/Technical Operations Manager, did the final mastering with Lane at the THX® certified Rick Chace Theatre. In order to efficiently and accurately scrutinize the restored 6-track, Chief Maintenance Engineer Joe Edwards configured the stage for fiveacross the-front monitoring using five Dynaudio BMI5A powered speakers. The 5-speaker arrangement allowed Reynolds to solo any channel and isolate specific sound problems for additional corrective work.

The final restored 6-track presents Spivak’s original award winning mix that audiences have not readily heard since the original 1961 release. The magic that resulted from the combination of the brilliant talents of Robert Wise, Jerome Robbins, Leonard Bernstein, and Stephen Sondheim is sure to re-unite audiences with the original experience that earned "West Side Story" ten Academy Awards nearly 50 years ago.

jcrobso
02-25-2010, 10:40 AM
I wounder who's voice they will use?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n26hnzcT7SU&feature=Responses&parent_video=xd_foOvGvho&index=0&playnext=1&playnext_from=RL

Natalie Woods voice or the overdub voice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIS7xnE4nNA&feature=related

JBL 4645
02-25-2010, 10:57 AM
I wounder who's voice they will use?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n26hnzcT7SU&feature=Responses&parent_video=xd_foOvGvho&index=0&playnext=1&playnext_from=RL

Natalie Woods voice or the overdub voice?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIS7xnE4nNA&feature=related

I see I see I see or I hear I hear I hear!

This was the same I think for “My Fair Lady” (Marni Nixon) singing on behalf of (Audrey Hepburn) it’s all mentioned on the audio commentary on DVD.

Wow this is cool interview because its fooled me! I have

The King and I
West Side Story
My Fair Lady

Yes “the timber speech pattern” as she mentioned wow fooled my ears LOL It’s indisguisable and transparently smooth in frequency.

JBL 4645
02-25-2010, 12:45 PM
Rare laserdisc introduction introduced by Robert Wise director of West Side Story

Did this quickie transfer from laserdisc West Side Story the Kworld device I’m using is bit edgy on the lines it’s the ways its set-up on the pc. Too many windows to explore to fix correct it. The audio is only mono or centre front from the AVR set at 0db.

Can’t figure it how to get stereo loaded on youtube not that I’m losing sleep it might be the sound card that is not set correctly and the video was loaded directly to webcam for faster uploaded otherwise ten minutes might take an hour LOL.

Robert Wise West Side Story 70mm to laserdisc introduction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZnnmQJRFhQ

JBL 4645
02-27-2010, 04:11 AM
One thing about the mixing of these rare 70mm six-track magnetic prints was the foggy sound that was speared over all fronts with subtle soft half dialogue panning between left-centre and right-centre or hard left hard right.

This is evident very noticeable when listening to the 5.1 version on DVD. The voices are like quote Ioan Allen (Senior Vice President Dolby labs)

Five channels behind the screen. There was letter say, one solo voice. What would happen was that single voice will get spread on all-five channels, and the result was big foggy mess. You wouldn’t know where the sound was coming from. And I really wanted to do something better for 70mm.

The birth of 5.1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaXiJSofaMY

marknyc
04-04-2010, 04:23 PM
Hi,

Glad to see my clip of Natalie's own voice was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I wonder if any more of her tracks were discovered during this search? Would love to see them included on the Blu-Ray!

If anyone knows of other tracks of actors who were dubbed, please let me know - I'm an editor and can restore them to the actual film.

Mark

jcrobso
04-05-2010, 08:34 AM
Hi,

Glad to see my clip of Natalie's own voice was mentioned earlier in this thread.

I wonder if any more of her tracks were discovered during this search? Would love to see them included on the Blu-Ray!

If anyone knows of other tracks of actors who were dubbed, please let me know - I'm an editor and can restore them to the actual film.

Mark
I know there are a lot of clips on You tube that show different between the actors voice and the overdub. Thank you for your work!:applaud:

marknyc
04-05-2010, 11:43 AM
I know there are a lot of clips on You tube that show different between the actors voice and the overdub.

I thnk most of them are mine! =)

Check out both my channels:

http://www.youtube.com/user/lostvocals3

http://www.youtube.com/user/lostvocals4