What is an audiophile ?

[wolfshead]

Today you rarely here that term used. Pre 1970's audiophile was used quite often. One was proud to be defined as an audiophile.

With the advent of HD television and the Ipod "Geeks" appear to be the name one hears today. Audio appears today to take a back seat behind computer produced music and television.

The American Heritage Dictionary definds Audiophile " A high fidelity audio hobbist "
The complete Guide to High End Audio definds it as "A person who values sound quality in reproduced music "

I personally think most of those who listen to audio today or "Geeks " there are exceptions.
What do you all think ?

[4313B]

By the definitions you cited I would say we're all audiophiles then.

I always thought the "geek" label people liked to toss around was "retarded".

[JeffW]

American Heritage Dictionary left out all references to Paragon, vinyl, Sinatra, etc.

Surely they are not to be trusted! :D

[SEAWOLF97]

So I was reading the June '54 copy of "Audio Engineering" last night (I'm a little behind on my reading stack) and it looks like this question has been recycled for a LONG time....:o:

[HCSGuy]

I usually avoid philosophical discussions, but I'll dip my toe in the water. I hate the term Audiophile. Having worked at several audio stores in the past, I came to associate Audiophiles with the guys that listened to music because it made their systems sound great, but didn't know a thing about the music, the performance, or didn't necessarily even like the music. No one take offense, please, but if I ever show up to hang with you and hear Mickey Hart's "Planet Drum" even before I get in the front door, I'll probably just leave...

Anyway, the greatest music lovers I have known have been Postmen and teachers and, well, musicians, who never had the money to buy first rate stuff and spent their extra cash paying to go to performances. I separate my audio friends into music lovers and gearheads. I confess that I am a gearhead, but I do aspire to be more.

As an aside, if you ever get a chance, see Pink Martini in concert - It will satisfy both the gearhead and music lover's sides of your brain.

That's all, folks.

[timc]

I would say that an audiophile is someone who is adicted to messing around with all sorts audio equipment. Well..not really "mess around", but you get my drift.




-Tim

[jerry_rig]

As a musician myself, I totally relate to your position. I enjoy both the music and the gear. Ideally the gear brings you closer to the music. But I can't relate to the folks that push it to an extreme with respect to cables and other tweaks.

I saw Pink Martini in concert at an intimate setting in Upstate NY about two years ago. I thought they were "cute" and quite wide ranging in their talent. But it wasn't really my cup of tea. The best part was that they did not require much in the way of amplification, thereby allowing one to really hear the musicians.

[Mr. Widget]

I can find bits of every post on this thread that I can relate to and agree with.

Though I personally do not think the term audiophile is in itself an insult. Unfortunately I see people on this forum and others use it as one. To me it simply means an audio enthusiast. I certainly agree that an audiophile is not a music lover and a music lover is not an audiophile, however in no way are the two mutually exclusive. I know audiophiles who love music and have invested great amounts of their money and living space on their record collections and I have known audiophiles who own a couple of "test" records and not much else in terms of music, yet they tinker with sound reproduction and enjoy it in their own way. Who cares? What does it matter why we are drawn to this hobby? Like it or not, there isn't anyone reading this that wouldn't be considered an audiophile by "normal" people.

As far as Hi-Fi snobbery... there is snobbery in every field, why should this one be any different? The funny thing is that there are those who snub people who listen to music through large vintage horn systems and there are those on this forum who disdain the Vandersteen, Sonus Faber, et al listeners...

People seem to get all riled up over wires and cables, tubes vs. solid state, ferrite vs. alnico, horns vs. domes and cones, digital, vs. analog, big old vintage speakers vs. modern audiophile speakers, and on and on. What the hell is an audiophile speaker anyway?

I am currently listening to ADS L910s... are they audiophile speakers? They certainly sound good to me. I am sure they were considered "audiophile" back in their day, though today they are considered "big brown and ugly", by most people. I find them remarkably satisfying on a wide range of music, though I have to admit I don't have any Micky Hart drum records.;)

Widget

[Tom Brennan]

Those are nice speakers Widget.

[Beowulf57]

Audiophile: a person with an ardent interest in high-fidelity sound reproduction. For an excellent example of this OCD behaviour, listen to the "Song of Reproduction," from "At the Drop of a Hat" by Swann & Flanders.

[wolfshead]

I can find bits of every post on this thread that I can relate to and agree with.

Though I personally do not think the term audiophile is in itself an insult. Unfortunately I see people on this forum and others use it as one. To me it simply means an audio enthusiast. I certainly agree that an audiophile is not a music lover and a music lover is not an audiophile, however in no way are the two mutually exclusive. I know audiophiles who love music and have invested great amounts of their money and living space on their record collections and I have known audiophiles who own a couple of "test" records and not much else in terms of music, yet they tinker with sound reproduction and enjoy it in their own way. Who cares? What does it matter why we are drawn to this hobby? Like it or not, there isn't anyone reading this that wouldn't be considered an audiophile by "normal" people.

As far as Hi-Fi snobbery... there is snobbery in every field, why should this one be any different? The funny thing is that there are those who snub people who listen to music through large vintage horn systems and there are those on this forum who disdain the Vandersteen, Sonus Faber, et al listeners...

People seem to get all riled up over wires and cables, tubes vs. solid state, ferrite vs. alnico, horns vs. domes and cones, digital, vs. analog, big old vintage speakers vs. modern audiophile speakers, and on and on. What the hell is an audiophile speaker anyway?

I am currently listening to ADS L910s... are they audiophile speakers? They certainly sound good to me. I am sure they were considered "audiophile" back in their day, though today they are considered "big brown and ugly", by most people. I find them remarkably satisfying on a wide range of music, though I have to admit I don't have any Micky Hart drum records.;)

Widget
The purpose for a forum is to have dissusions about audio , specifically
JBL 's . New vs old. After all Heritage is in the title of the forum.

There are those that have dificulty on any forum. We all learn something from a fair exchange. Point and counterpoint.
Unless the forum is well policed there will be name calling and personal attacks.

Evolution is a part of living , we as humans evolve. So do our toys.
The question submitted is , is that evolution postive as it applies to
speakers ? We all have opinions on this topic , why not express those opinions in good taste.

My opinion may be no , another persons opinion may be yes , now lets discuss our differences in a gentlemanly manner.:)

[wolfshead]

I usually avoid philosophical discussions, but I'll dip my toe in the water. I hate the term Audiophile. Having worked at several audio stores in the past, I came to associate Audiophiles with the guys that listened to music because it made their systems sound great, but didn't know a thing about the music, the performance, or didn't necessarily even like the music. No one take offense, please, but if I ever show up to hang with you and hear Mickey Hart's "Planet Drum" even before I get in the front door, I'll probably just leave...

Anyway, the greatest music lovers I have known have been Postmen and teachers and, well, musicians, who never had the money to buy first rate stuff and spent their extra cash paying to go to performances. I separate my audio friends into music lovers and gearheads. I confess that I am a gearhead, but I do aspire to be more.

As an aside, if you ever get a chance, see Pink Martini in concert - It will satisfy both the gearhead and music lover's sides of your brain.

That's all, folks.
An excellent point. My experience with most audiophiles is that they had little interest in music , their main interest was audio equipment.

It was fun discussioning who made the best power amp , or the best woofer, turntable , and tone arm. Music was rarely mention.

Having been a member of several car clubs , the same give and take existed. Some car clubs were more serious about their cars such as the
Porsche car club.

Websites that discuss men's clothing is no different , which is better a Brioni suit or a Kiton suit ? Lobb shoes are Edward Green ?
As always new vs old , many will say that young men today are generally poor dressers.
The difference is there is no name calling and personal attacks ! Everybody learns something about men's clothing.

[CountD]

People refer to me sometimes as an audiophile - especially my neighbors. But honestly, I don't have really expensive equipment or speakers. I have just found what works for me and what sounds right for me.

I dislike the term as well, but I don't think a lot of people understand how the sound of music has changed with the advent of new systems and digital music. I am into an 'old sound' and my preference for the old sound came from when I was growing up with my fathers system. And with that older sound, comes older equipment that looks a lot different than a new receiver with an iPod hooked to it.

A lot of people that come to my house can't comprehend that the music they are listening to is coming out of a 45 year old Mc amp that is still going strong. With this older equipment there is more of a personal romantic relationship that some people don't understand or have gotten to yet or really don't care about. I like to learn the history of great pioneers and hear what Muddy Waters or Pete Fountain sounds like on a Mc tube system vs. solid state.

Personally I like most old JBLs and quite a few new ones (especially from the 1990's, which is an era that a lot of people loathe).

I buy more music than equipment, and actually don't buy much equipment anymore. I am no longer looking for the 'sound' or the end-all-be-all or audio nirvana. It's all about the music for me for sure.

Does this make me an audiophile? In my eyes I don't think so, but if it does then I am OK with it.

[JBLAddict]

I would say an audiophile is someone who is passionate about music to the point where the quality of sound has an unusually high impact on how much it touches their soul. Now how one acts upon that impact is another thing altogether- I'm quite certain there are many out there who can afford and own some of the best gear available but do not have the same soul touching experience.

I may not be able to afford, or willing to spend obscene amounts of money on my gear, but that does not lessen my appreciation and drive for ever increasing amounts of hi-fidelity music reproduction. I've listened to a cassette boombox from KMart near tears over a song, but have also had the (mis)fortune of a few hours with the Everest2 and 100K worth of supporting electronics and painfully comprehend how close to heaven that is.....and I'll add that I spent an hour with a 30K set of Wilson Puppys a few hours prior and they were laughable compared to the E2, from a soul-touching perspective that is;)

[wolfshead]

According to yourself, you are " A high fidelity audio Hobbist"

AYY, I only call as I see, err, I mean, READ IT! :deal:
Correct , At one time I was an audiophile. Today neither a hobbist or audiophile.

[wolfshead]

I would say an audiophile is someone who is passionate about music to the point where the quality of sound has an unusually high impact on how much it touches their soul. Now how one acts upon that impact is another thing altogether- I'm quite certain there are many out there who can afford and own some of the best gear available but do not have the same soul touching experience.

I may not be able to afford, or willing to spend obscene amounts of money on my gear, but that does not lessen my appreciation and drive for ever increasing amounts of hi-fidelity music reproduction. I've listened to a cassette boombox from KMart near tears over a song, but have also had the (mis)fortune of a few hours with the Everest2 and 100K worth of supporting electronics and painfully comprehend how close to heaven that is.....and I'll add that I spent an hour with a 30K set of Wilson Puppys a few hours prior and they were laughable compared to the E2, from a soul-touching perspective that is;)

I agree , it is one thing to own another to appreciate.
As for as the soul is concern , I stay out of religious discussions. My experience has been that audiophiles were looking for the perfect reproduction , as close to live music as possible produced by electronic
equipment.

As in anything it all depends on exposure. It all also depends on one's values. Porsches promotions are that to own a Porsche is like nothing else in the world ! There may be some truth in that.

I would add that to own a superior audio system is also like nothing in the world. One cannot be concern with price in my opinion.

Your reference point is the Everest 2 , mine is a little broader. Again exposure.
I respect your opinions.

Much like travel , it is said every man should visit Paris before he dies,
Some might disagree some agree. Paris is a great city I prefer new York
but than again my wife Paris.

[wolfshead]

People refer to me sometimes as an audiophile - especially my neighbors. But honestly, I don't have really expensive equipment or speakers. I have just found what works for me and what sounds right for me.

I dislike the term as well, but I don't think a lot of people understand how the sound of music has changed with the advent of new systems and digital music. I am into an 'old sound' and my preference for the old sound came from when I was growing up with my fathers system. And with that older sound, comes older equipment that looks a lot different than a new receiver with an iPod hooked to it.

A lot of people that come to my house can't comprehend that the music they are listening to is coming out of a 45 year old Mc amp that is still going strong. With this older equipment there is more of a personal romantic relationship that some people don't understand or have gotten to yet or really don't care about. I like to learn the history of great pioneers and hear what Muddy Waters or Pete Fountain sounds like on a Mc tube system vs. solid state.

Personally I like most old JBLs and quite a few new ones (especially from the 1990's, which is an era that a lot of people loathe).

I buy more music than equipment, and actually don't buy much equipment anymore. I am no longer looking for the 'sound' or the end-all-be-all or audio nirvana. It's all about the music for me for sure.

Does this make me an audiophile? In my eyes I don't think so, but if it does then I am OK with it.

Most people like you love music, an audiophile loves audio equipment and is searching for that perfect audio system. the one that is indistinguishable from live sound. A never ending search for that "sound"
Music is only a vehicle used in that search.

pre 1980's there were many audiophiles , music changed and so did the audiophiles , many aged , lost interest and passed on. Today is very different.

One example is when I first joined the Porsche club in 1972 , the members loved their Porsches ,they didn't have much money , working class people.
Today working class people cannot afford Porsches. So most of those who
can afford Porsches buy them for other reasons ,image . being one.
There are fewer Porschephiles today. Same applies to audiophiles.

[CountD]

I really don't think there as 'less' -philes of anything today, I would say there are more. I believe -phile added to any word is an old term. Today we use the word enthusiast.

Working class people can afford Porsches, as a new Boxster is less money in 2010 dollars than a 911 was in 1972. In 1972 when you joined the club there were only two Porsches you could buy - a 914 and a 911. Now there are at least four or five different models. You can't label everyone who is buying a Porsche today as just an 'image' decision.

I bet when you joined the club in 1972 not all those people had new cars. Here in San Diego you can buy a nice Boxster for less than half the price of a new Accord - just like you can find lots of different audio equipment at different prices.

And what is a 'working class' person now? Times have changed. I think you are using old terminology in a world that has gotten more complex, distracting, and much smaller.

[scott fitlin]

I really don't think there as 'less' -philes of anything today, I would say there are more. I believe -phile added to any word is an old term. Today we use the word enthusiast.

Working class people can afford Porsches, as a new Boxster is less money in 2010 dollars than a 911 was in 1972. In 1972 when you joined the club there were only two Porsches you could buy - a 914 and a 911. Now there are at least four or five different models. You can't label everyone who is buying a Porsche today as just an 'image' decision.

I bet when you joined the club in 1972 not all those people had new cars. Here in San Diego you can buy a nice Boxster for less than half the price of a new Accord - just like you can find lots of different audio equipment at different prices.

And what is a 'working class' person now? Times have changed. I think you are using old terminology in a world that has gotten more complex, distracting, and much smaller.Very well said, and I completely agree.

[laurie]

What an interesting term - "Audiophile", its not a phrase I see in British magazines.

In my case, the older I get, the less fussed I've actually become about trying to get the best sound, if I found a component I like, I stick with it for years. I enjoy reading the magazine called Hi-Fi World but I never read about any of the products and feel I must go out and replace what I've got because we are in 2010 and everything now is better than 5 or 10 years ago (plus often more expensive). I'm not prepared to fall into that trap and dream about things I don't need or can't afford.

I think the new Linn DS range is a good example of this - Linn have stopped making CD players because they claim CD players are so old hat and not that great sonically. Yet, Linn still need us to buy CDs to get the best out of the DS player - quite contradictory. There will be people out there trying to convince us Linn DS is the future and only way to go and there is no alternative.

http://www.linn.co.uk/what_is_linn_ds

[Allanvh5150]

I dont even like the term "Audiophile". It instanly conjours thought of people with far too much money spending it on wooden blocks, porcelain insulators, spikes and other esoteric items. As someone else pointed out they are more into the sound than the music. As a musician I am very much into music but I dont need an elaborate system to apreciate it. I hear music in colours, how notes sound together and the progression of intervals. It does not matter what instrument is playing, as long as it is not accordian or bagpipes.
However, I do have a very good system for playback, lots of power and lots of clarity. I would call my self an extreme hobyist that like to build things and tinker. Some of my friends say I am nuts and some like what I do. Each to thier own eh?


Allan.

[Mr. Widget]

I dont even like the term "Audiophile". It instanly conjours thought of people with far too much money spending it on wooden blocks, porcelain insulators, spikes and other esoteric items. Whether spending a fortune on silly do dahs or twisting your own Cat5 speaker cables, it is all the same to me. I really couldn't care less if someone spends a few hundred grand or $500 on a system. If the reproduction matters to them then they are an audiophile, a hi-fi buff, an audio enthusiast, etc.

The system I have been listening to for the past month or so would make most audiophiles reasonably happy... especially if they couldn't see it, what with it's 16 ga. zip cord speaker wire and all.:D I am using an Apt Holman preamp (current used price value ~$250), a GAS Son of Ampzilla power amp (current used price value <$300), an old Sony DVP 9000ES (current used price value <$100), and a pair of ADS L910 speakers. (current used price value ~$500) With luck, you can get the whole system for far under $1000. I did. I do have a pile of other gear in the house and some of it cost me thousands of dollars, but this rather modest system from the late '70s and early '80s... electronics have all been refurbished, sounds quite fantastic, and with a better source, it sounds even better.

To be completely honest, for the most part I have not used that Sony player as an analog source, but rather as a digital transport feeding an outboard DAC. With the DAC, the sound is positively great. I can comfortably say that I am an audiophile, a hi-fi buff, an audio enthusiast, etc. I do not think that diminishs my appreciation of music, but high quality reproduction heightens my enjoyment and I am not ashamed to admit it. :p


Widget

[lansingfan]

That truly does say it all—and articulates my perspective as well.


Any chance we could lock this thread now and leave on a high note? :D

Harman/Kardon DVD-22 (factory re-furb) $40
Soundcraftsmen Pro-Control Four $125 (Ebay)
Soundcraftsmen Pro-EQ 44 $125 (E-pay)
Crown PS-400 $100 (Epay ex-local studio)
JBL L7 $200 (Craig's List from neighbor)
Total: $590


Audio File- Tool used to sharpen ones listening experience. Also, works on knives, scissors and swing blades.:p

[Titanium Dome]

So, we've been down this road before, and before, and before...

http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=18114&highlight=audiophile

Hopefully we all know what "audio" means, especially in the context of music and sound reproduction. As for "-phile" as a suffix, it comes from "philos", the second type of love, the others being eros and agape (a-gá-pē, not uh-gayp).

So you have oenophile (loves wine), arctophile (loves teddy bears), bibliophile (loves books), retrophile (loves things of the past), Francophile (loves things French), and disgusting forms too, like necrophile (loves corpses) and pedophile (loves children) as examples.

Audiophile is an innocuous enough word and concept. It is meant to be an inclusive and general term. Sadly, it has been misappropriated by segments of the audio community and forced into a narrow category.

Nonetheless, by definition, if you love audio, then you are an audiophile.

If you love your equipment more than audio per se, then you're really a technophile.

[rdgrimes]

If you love your equipment more than audio per se, then you're really a technophile.
You left out JBLophile. :)

[Mr. Widget]

You left out JBLophile. :)That's because it is sometimes difficult to see one's self as we truly are. ;)


TiDome, I am pretty sure all of the detractors of the term know what it actually means, but for some peculiar reason they choose to have it represent someone they can't relate too and therefore detest.


Widget

[Titanium Dome]

You left out JBLophile. :)

I guess the term doesn't apply to me, so I block it out. Mine is more like an obsession, and JBLaddict is already taken. :D

Seriously, I was looking around the garage yesterday while testing a JBL Synthesis® S650 amp I bought, and I thought :wtf: am I doing? I already have too much of this stuff. I think I have a problem.

[jcrobso]

It refereed to people that were after good sound and were willing spend extra to get it and not just settle for the "boxed" record player console.
I was one of them, today I would call myself and enthusiast. I don't go way over board on wild things or exotic very BIG $$$$ items. There is a point of diminishing returns in everything. I stopped going to high end stores years ago. The is one in Hinsdale that you have to make an appointment to even be able to walk into the store, maybe this gives them time to ckeck your credit rating.:blink:

[Mr. Widget]

I think I have a problem.Are you joking? ...that it has taken this long for you to realize it?

There is only one effective method of recovery. Send the SAMS to me, and all of the rest of your JBL stuff to others here on the forum. :D

Oh, you can keep a JBL iPod dock or headphones or something of that caliber to remind you how far you have gone. :blink:


Widget

[rdgrimes]

I think I have a problem.
No you don't. You can stop it any time you want. Really, you can. :bs:

[Titanium Dome]

It refereed to people that were after good sound and were willing spend extra to get it and not just settle for the "boxed" record player console.
I was one of them, today I would call myself and enthusiast. I don't go way over board on wild things or exotic very BIG $$$$ items. There is a point of diminishing returns in everything. I stopped going to high end stores years ago. The is one in Hinsdale that you have to make an appointment to even be able to walk into the store, maybe this gives them time to ckeck your credit rating.:blink:

:rotfl: Yes, the ol' prequalification gambit. I had one :moon: here in LA tell me I wasn't the right kind of clientele for his store since I drove to the store in my 2001 Hyundai Sonata. They needed a shovel and wheelbarrow to clean up the dump I took on him before I left.

I was so mad I went to another shop and ordered $18,000 worth of gear, then called the first shop's manager and told him he'd just lost that business. The guy wet his pants over the phone trying to get me to come back.

When I came to my senses the next day, I had to go back to the second store to cancel the order. I gave the guy $200 because I'd been an :moon: to take advantage of him.

[lgvenable]

By the definitions you cited I would say we're all audiophiles then.

I always thought the "geek" label people liked to toss around was "retarded".

I always thought the joke was you might call someone a geek or a nerd, but you might also call them....boss.

On the thread subject:
In the past (70's) when I had no money I thought an audiophile was someone who dumped a ton of money on equipment, didn't know much or how to run it; and was a stuffed talking head.

Now I think folks (like on LHF), are enthusiasts who pursue a passion for music and in our cases all things JBL. More than a hobby, more like a lifestyle.;)

[JBL 4645]

Today you rarely here that term used. Pre 1970's audiophile was used quite often. One was proud to be defined as an audiophile.

With the advent of HD television and the Ipod "Geeks" appear to be the name one hears today. Audio appears today to take a back seat behind computer produced music and television.

The American Heritage Dictionary definds Audiophile " A high fidelity audio hobbist "
The complete Guide to High End Audio definds it as "A person who values sound quality in reproduced music "

I personally think most of those who listen to audio today or "Geeks " there are exceptions.
What do you all think ?

I think this youtube 20 minute video sums it all up! I watched this a few times and really this bunch as lost the plot! :screwy:

Audiophile Greeks
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xs1aUws0Lrs

I got asked the same question on MSN massager a few nights back. I said I just listen which is the difference from hearing a sound frequency that is honestly there on the mix itself.

I don’t spend silly amounts of shameless money around on silly cables or speaker cable!

I do prefer and most would agree active crossovers do present a better sound with less distortion, and that’s good enough for me.

[jcrobso]

I guess the term doesn't apply to me, so I block it out. Mine is more like an obsession, and JBLaddict is already taken. :D

Seriously, I was looking around the garage yesterday while testing a JBL Synthesis® S650 amp I bought, and I thought :wtf: am I doing? I already have too much of this stuff. I think I have a problem.

This forum is fun at times some what like a therapy session.:blink:
I get to find out about JBL speakers without having to go buy all of them, just some of them.:o:

[Allanvh5150]

I get to find out about JBL speakers without having to go buy all of them, just some of them.:o:

And the curiosity takes over and you have to go out and get one to find for yourself.:)

[JBL 4645]

And the curiosity takes over and you have to go out and get one to find for yourself.:)

Yeah. That’s why budget is an issue with me, and I can only afford plastic control series 1 and 5.:D