best tube amp match for JBL speakers

[pyonc]

Hi,

Can anybody tell me what kind of vintage tubed amplifiers and the preamps are the best matches for JBL speakers such as 4311, 4343, C40, C50 Olympus S8R, etc? What about Dynaco ST-70? I'm looking to buy them one of these days, so I need your counsel. Thanks a lot in advance.

[Mr. Widget]

Unfortunately like so much about audio this is simply too subjective a topic to get meaningful answers. I haven't tried many tube amps with many JBLs, but I have used a MAC MC240 with a few and it is amazing how much it's sound differed from the better solid state amps with my speakers. The VLF bass was significantly rolled off but subjectively the bass was much louder and bloated sounding... likely due to the poor damping factor typical of most transformer coupled tube amps.

That said, there are many on the forum and elsewhere who love these amps even with large motored JBLs which typically require more control from the amp. I also felt that the the very highest frequencies were a bit rolled off... I would only use such an amp as a midrange amp in a tri-amped system. Then again, you might find the sound to be to your liking, but be careful... just because one person hates it or another loves a piece of gear may not tell you much about how you will feel about it in your system in your room.


Widget

[pyonc]

Unfortunately like so much about audio this is simply too subjective a topic to get meaningful answers. I haven't tried many tube amps with many JBLs, but I have used a MAC MC240 with a few and it is amazing how much it's sound differed from the better solid state amps with my speakers. The VLF bass was significantly rolled off but subjectively the bass was much louder and bloated sounding... likely due to the poor damping factor typical of most transformer coupled tube amps.

That said, there are many on the forum and elsewhere who love these amps even with large motored JBLs which typically require more control from the amp. I also felt that the the very highest frequencies were a bit rolled off... I would only use such an amp as a midrange amp in a tri-amped system. Then again, you might find the sound to be to your liking, but be careful... just because one person hates it or another loves a piece of gear may not tell you much about how you will feel about it in your system in your room.


Widget

As always, I respect your counsel. Thanks a lot.
When they think of the best matches for JBL speakers,
the usual names like AR, Mcintosh conjure up, not to mention
their model numbers. Looks like your model is rather new to me...

[Mr. Widget]

Looks like your model is rather new to me...It is a fairly common vintage tube Mac. I don't think my experience was anomalous, however my expectations might be different from those who love vintage McIntosh amps.

The Dynaco you mentioned is a 35wpc unit, the MC240 is a 40wpc unit. I doubt most tube lovers would consider the ST70 superior to the MC240, but again I must reiterate the subjective nature of these comparisons.


Widget

[lansingfan]

Hi,

Can anybody tell me what kind of vintage tubed amplifiers and the preamps are the best matches for JBL speakers such as 4311, 4343, C40, C50 Olympus S8R, etc? What about Dynaco ST-70? I'm looking to buy them one of these days, so I need your counsel. Thanks a lot in advance.


The first would be choice of speakers. The list you mention is a varied group. Some more sensitive than others. Secondly, what volume you play music at. This will dictate need for watts. Thirdly, room size, this will determine proper speaker choice. Fourthly, personal preference. Some love the Mac's, some love horns, newer over older. Opinions here tend to leave you wanting. What may in the beginning seem like a simple question, eventually becomes unanswerable in the sense that audio is all about opinion, with very little objectivity. Yes, you can read a spec sheet for the facts, but that is NO guarantee of personal listening pleasure. I take all opinions on choice of speakers and gear with a grain of salt and then go out , RESEARCH and EXPERIMENT!!!

Present equipment:
Dynaco ST400
Dynaco ST70
Dynaco SCA35
Dynaco Pas 2
Dynaco Pas 3
Bez 6SN7 preamp
Kenwood 1000U(7591 tubes)
Sansui 9090
Sony DVP-S7000
GoldRing TT
Teac 3340 R2R
Pioneer CT-F1250
Altec Lansing Model 19
JBL L166
JBL L80T
JBL L100
JBL L46
(This list has and will continue to change, I guarantee)

[spkrman57]

It is a fairly common vintage tube Mac. I don't think my experience was anomalous, however my expectations might be different from those who love vintage McIntosh amps.

The Dynaco you mentioned is a 35wpc unit, the MC240 is a 40wpc unit. I doubt most tube lovers would consider the ST70 superior to the MC240, but again I must reiterate the subjective nature of these comparisons.


Widget


The Dynaco is closer to a 25 wpc amp while the MC-240 will exceed its 40 wpc rating easily. Mine hits 50 wpc @ 1% distortion. Terry DeWickt refurbed mine a year ago and it is in use daily.

For tube amps, the more efficient your speakers the better your tube amp will play.

Just my 2 cents of course!

Regards, Ron

[JoMoCo]

If you are attracted to vintage oriented JBL products because of their use as both performers and work horses in professional working environments...you may also appreciate something like the Manley tube products... the Neo-Classic line comes to mind...but there are many different flavors of tube execution out there...Electroluv...to Fischer:blink:

Get something and start a thread with your impressions!:dancin:

http://www.manleyaudio.com.au/hifipower/hifipower/neo250.html

[LowPhreak]

I can recommend the Mesa Baron with WIMA caps upgrade (stereo, up to 225/w.p.c.) and Audio Research Classic 120 (monoblocks, 110/w.p.c.), since I've owned and used them with several different speaker types. Not sure how "vintage" they are considered to be, but both are out of production and won't be that easy to find, and are very good tube amps. The ARC's will not be cheap and the Baron will be less that those (single chassis, etc.) but IMO are worth the hunt.

I've used both on Martin-Logan e-stats, B&W Nautilus (ported), Magnepan Tympani IV and 2.6R panels, A/D/S L990 (sealed), KEF C80's (sealed), and others, so I'd imagine they'd work well with many JBL's too.

[pyonc]

I can recommend the Mesa Baron with WIMA caps upgrade (stereo, up to 225/w.p.c.) and Audio Research Classic 120 (monoblocks, 110/w.p.c.), since I've owned and used them with several different speaker types. Not sure how "vintage" they are considered to be, but both are out of production and won't be that easy to find, and are very good tube amps. The ARC's will not be cheap and the Baron will be less that those (single chassis, etc.) but IMO are worth the hunt.

I've used both on Martin-Logan e-stats, B&W Nautilus (ported), Magnepan Tympani IV and 2.6R panels, A/D/S L990 (sealed), KEF C80's (sealed), and others, so I'd imagine they'd work well with many JBL's too.

Thanks for your advice.
For example, the model you mentioned would be good match for JBL Olympus S8R? If not, what other model would you recommend?

[pyonc]

The first would be choice of speakers. The list you mention is a varied group. Some more sensitive than others. Secondly, what volume you play music at. This will dictate need for watts. Thirdly, room size, this will determine proper speaker choice. Fourthly, personal preference. Some love the Mac's, some love horns, newer over older. Opinions here tend to leave you wanting. What may in the beginning seem like a simple question, eventually becomes unanswerable in the sense that audio is all about opinion, with very little objectivity. Yes, you can read a spec sheet for the facts, but that is NO guarantee of personal listening pleasure. I take all opinions on choice of speakers and gear with a grain of salt and then go out , RESEARCH and EXPERIMENT!!!

Present equipment:
Dynaco ST400
Dynaco ST70
Dynaco SCA35
Dynaco Pas 2
Dynaco Pas 3
Bez 6SN7 preamp
Kenwood 1000U(7591 tubes)
Sansui 9090
Sony DVP-S7000
GoldRing TT
Teac 3340 R2R
Pioneer CT-F1250
Altec Lansing Model 19
JBL L166
JBL L80T
JBL L100
JBL L46
(This list has and will continue to change, I guarantee)

I agree with what you pointed out. Thanks for your good comments.

[LowPhreak]

Thanks for your advice.
For example, the model you mentioned would be good match for JBL Olympus S8R? If not, what other model would you recommend?

I've never heard that model JBL so I can't say specific to that, but I do know the amps I mentioned are very good ones. Every component has its own 'sound' (different impedances, etc.), so it's trial & error.

[wolfshead]

Dynaco's are excellent amps , the Mark 4's were better. two forty watt mono amps. Generally JBL high end speakers were mated with either
McIntosh , Marantz , or Harman Kardon tube amps. Preamps and power amps , never recievers of any kind.

Lower price JBL's were mated to Fisher or Scott tube separates. The 1961
addition of Hi-Fi Stereo Review put together what was called " The Five Stereo Dream Systems. JBL was not included. There was mention of the JBL Paragon with the Bozak Concert Grand , EV Patricians , Jensen Imperials but in another class.

The JBL Olympus would sound great with JBL's preamp and power amp.
Greater with Mac or Marantz.
The older JBL's were designed for tube amps.

[Harvey Gerst]

The older JBL's were designed for tube amps.
Well, all we had at the time were tube amps. At JBL in the 60's, we had mostly McIntosh amps. But I don't remember anybody in engineering ever thinking about designing speakers specifically for tube amps.

We did do the "8 Ohms sounds better on the 16 Ohms tap, so we'll call it a 16 Ohm speaker", but that's about it.

[wolfshead]

Well, all we had at the time were tube amps. At JBL in the 60's, we had mostly McIntosh amps. But I don't remember anybody in engineering ever thinking about designing speakers specifically for tube amps.

We did do the "8 Ohms sounds better on the 16 Ohms tap, so we'll call it a 16 Ohm speaker", but that's about it.

JBL designed power amps which took the place of conventional stereo power amps , with plug in eqalizer boards which contolled frequences-responces and damping. The plug-in boards was available for any JBL loudspeaker/enclousure combination.
SE408S as an example.
The Paragon was build with a special JBL equalizer board if one wished which took the place of a power amp.
JBL also made boards for other speakers , SE400S .
One was designed for the Olympus speaker series.

[Mr. Widget]

We did do the "8 Ohms sounds better on the 16 Ohms tap, so we'll call it a 16 Ohm speaker", but that's about it.Ah Ha!

This is the first time I have heard that and it explains the LE15A, LE85, etc. foilcal impedance confusion between the '60s era drivers and the '70s era versions that were identical except for the rated impedance that was printed on them.

In the '60s virtually all amps were tubed and in the 70s tubes became rather rare, Audio Research and a few others not withstanding, so I guess changing the rated impedance to 8 ohms where most SS amps performed best was necessary to make consumers feel their "new" JBLs would work well with their new SS amp.

Widget

[Harvey Gerst]

JBL designed power amps which took the place of conventional stereo power amps , with plug in equalizer boards which controlled frequency-responses and damping. The plug-in boards was available for any JBL loudspeaker/enclosure combination.
SE408S as an example.
The Paragon was build with a special JBL equalizer board if one wished which took the place of a power amp.
JBL also made boards for other speakers , SE400S .
One was designed for the Olympus speaker series.
The original amp you're describing ("SE" for "Stereo Energizer") was designed by Hank Walcott for JBL, although I don't believe it was ever put into production. I think we wound up using the "T-circuit" design that was championed by Bart Locanthi.

Hank's amp was a thing of beauty and was one of the best tube amps I ever heard. It used a plug-in can (with an octal base) that could do some simple eq. I think it put out something like 40 or 60 watts.

[LowPhreak]

I recently heard a dual pair of Quad II-eighty monos driving a pair of PMC MB2S from 380Hz up, (one each on the mid and tweeter, L & R). Excellent resolution/transparency but not fatiguing, (not always easy to do) and surprising attack and dynamics for tubes + a non-horn @ 91dB sens. Much of that was of course the PMC's, but then I've heard those PMC's driven by "mediocre" amps and they didn't fare as well.

I was duly impressed, but I've always liked KT-88 based tube designs anyway. It sounded to me that Tim DeParavicini did a bang-up job fiddling with the Walker design. I was told that run full-range, the II-eighties are fine as well. I can imagine a single monoblock pair might do nicely full-range with JBL horns.

I didn't want to ask the price and spoil my mood! :spchless:


http://www.quad-hifi.co.uk/model.php?sector_id=3&range_id=7&model_id=42