Garage insulation

[loud mouth]

Hello I'm in the process of insulating my garage so the neighbors cant here the tunes its a steel building and it gets loud outside. does anybody know what insulation would work better to keep the music inside.me and my buds have pool night every Friday. 42590

[jblsound]

Steel buildings usually have rolls of fiberglass insulation with a plastic face, as opposed to kraft paper face batts used in homes.

No matter what insulation you use, looks like you'll have a lot of stuff to move first.

Nice game room.

[Cyclotronguy]

You might want to grab a copy of A. Everest's book "Building a studio on a budget". (www.partsexpress.com (http://www.partsexpress.com)) What it all boils down too is MASS and making things air tight. High Mass is your friend.

Cyclotronguy

[Earl K]

Hi,

- "Roxul" makes a few grades of mineral wool that has both fire retardent & sound insulating qualities . The thicker / the better .

- Apart from that , a bit of fact-finding is in order to get ones expectations in line with the $$ of expenditures vs the results .
- ie; Fully stopping sound transmisson is no small feat ( when it comes to bass frequencies ) .
- One needs to study the graphs to understand the relationship between a materials' thickness ( &/or density ) to reducing LF transmission through absorbtion methods .

- Here's a direct link to P-E(s)' sale page for :
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/500-360_s.jpg (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=500-360)

I don't have the (above) book , so I can't comment on it much except to say that the author is a leading authority on the subject of acoustics .

I have this ( A. Everests' ) tome ( 615 pages ) on acoustics called ;
http://www.parts-express.com/images/item_standard/500-150_s.jpg (http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=500-150)
- It's likely way more info than the op wants or actually needs .

>< cheers :)

[Mr. Widget]

Hi,

- "Roxul" makes a few grades of mineral wool that has both fire retardent & sound insulating qualities . The thicker / the better .

- Apart from that , a bit of fact-finding is in order to get ones expectations in line with the $$ of expenditures vs the results .
- ie; Fully stopping sound transmisson is no small feat ( when it comes to bass frequencies ) .
- One needs to study the graphs to understand the relationship between a materials' thickness ( &/or density ) to reducing LF transmission through absorbtion methods .


What he said!

Also, the recycled cotton denim (http://www.soundaway.com/Ultratouch_Insulation_s/79.htm?gclid=CMzw397b3Z0CFShSagodSSORQA) insulation is also better than fiberglass.

As Cyclotron guy said... MASS. Fiberglass has very little. It will help, but cotton or the Roxul products will do better.


Widget

[sonofagun]

What about the spray on foam insulation? I've seen several steel buildings with the walls so insulated. Can probably be layered on as thick as wanted/required. Probably easiest to apply.

[hjames]

What about the spray on foam insulation? I've seen several steel buildings with the walls so insulated. Can probably be layered on as thick as wanted/required. Probably easiest to apply.
As long as they get the mix right - some of those foams are notorious for formaldehyde out-gassing and making the building toxic. Potential fire hazard for some, unless you cover it with sheetrock. And gypsum board can be troublesome right now, depending on country of origin.
Roll product is generally much safer for the casual user.

[sonofagun]

Hey, ya gotta die from something!

:D

OK, alternatively I'd use the thickest, dense-ist (sp?), sheet foam insulation board I could buy and then hang or apply thick carpet* over it.

*Better, soundproofing foam sheets ("egg crate" or wedge design) but possibly more expensive.

[jcrobso]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#sound-absorbers/=49azhf

[lgvenable]

I recently went to an IMAX movie, and went to look at their walls and construction after everyone had left. They're using 4 to 5" of what lloks like Owens Corning pink Fiberglas, with a cloth curtain over it. This was mounted directly over plain old wallboard, with a pleated curtain over the top.
Everything in black.

Speakers? they had it going on there> all JBL pro.

[sonofagun]

Yup, fiberglas ins. and carpet curtain - about as inexpensive (we won't say the "C" word) as you can go.

So, Loud Mouth, what have you decided to go with? We're all waiting to hear.

[Marvin]

I used Roxul for the sound absorbing qualities in my A7's. After further examination, it would seem Roxul is the brand name for what we used to call Rock Wool. Both are mineral based products. Both absorb sound better than fiberglass.

When I insulate the sound room in my new house I will use one of these. Price will be the determining factor. I have also heard a curtain with rubber backing against the wall is great for preventing reflected sound.

I used Celotex 4x8 panels in a previous installation. It did not work as well as I had hoped. It was also prone to dents. It was very soft. It is no longer available in 4X8 sheets.

I am considering making 4X8 panels using 2X4 Roxul batts placed around the room. I can move them around for the best effect. We'll see how it goes...

[herki the cat]

[quote=Earl K;268155]Hi,
- One needs to study the graphs to understand the relationship between a materials' thickness ( &/or density ) to reducing LF transmission through absorbtion methods .
[Quote -/]
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
An excellent example of Earl K's requirements: __ For the RCA Prniceton Laboratories Anechoic Chamber, in the early 1930's__ Dr. Harry Olson chose the only suitable sound absorbant of that time__ an elegant "rug padding materiaL, trade-marked as "OZITE" with a very high "NRC", Noise Reduction Coeficient, provided from a "wool and cow's hair" composite, a very clean, long-life material.

All six surfaces of Dr, Olson's Anechoic Chamber were eight feet in thickness, The chamber was equipped with a steel grating suspended work foor. In all cases, Ozite sheeting was suspended verticaly by its the top edge along its full length away from each wall and down from the ceiling. In the chamber bottom, substantially below the steel work floor, the Ozite sheeting was suspended from the steel work floor.

On all six chamber surfaces, All Ozite sheets were spaced approxamately one & one half inches apart with alternating sheet lengths of five feet and eight Feet awayfrom the chamber surfaces.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Cheers, herki the cat

[midlife]

Clear everything out of that cluttered garage and spray with cellulose. Will give you better climate insulation and sound deadening.

[Earl K]

"loud mouth" http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif

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Last Activity: 10-26-2009 02:35 PM

Really,,,, I don't think the "op" has too much interest in the thread that he started / but carry on .
<> :)

[Marvin]

Earl,
You may be right. Considering all the debris in his garage, I wonder if he was really serious. It might be easier to just move. Ha, just kidding...

Anyway, I am VERY interested as I am building a new house with a music room I NEED to install audio insulation in. Several things have been mentioned and I appreciate the input. I really like the idea of the movable 4X8ft. panels. These panels would have a core of the Roxul and be covered with a fabric to go with the room decor. I think they could be built fairly cheap. 128 sq. ft bundle of Roxul sells for under $35. That is 14 2X4X1 1/2in. pieces. This is acoustic grade insulation. Carpet on the floor with a dropped acoustical panel ceiling. It also has been suggested that a full length curtain with a rubber backing would be great. I am staying away from the fiberglass since it does not have as good sound proofing properties as the rock wool (Roxul).

Earl, you have helped me in the past, what are your thoughts?

[Earl K]

Anyway, I am VERY interested as I am building a new house with a music room I NEED to install audio insulation in.

WHY ?
- Why do you NEED to insulate the music room ?
- Have you lost control of your stereos' volume knob ;) or is the family tired of you imposing your musical tastes on them ? :p


Several things have been mentioned and I appreciate the input. I really like the idea of the movable 4X8ft. panels. These panels would have a core of the Roxul and be covered with a fabric to go with the room decor. I think they could be built fairly cheap. 128 sq. ft bundle of Roxul sells for under $35. That is 14 2X4X1 1/2in. pieces. This is acoustic grade insulation.

Real Isolation doesn't come cheap :

- Movable acoustic panels will certainly alter the room acoustics / but they will only partially insulate ( sound proof ) your music room from the rest of the house.

- You need to fully encapsulate the room with sound-proofing ( including the floor ) to acoustically isolate it from the rest of the structure.


Create a Benchmark for how much "noise isolation" is required :

- You need to determine your actual sound proofing needs.
- ie ; If you are in the ( bad ) habit of constantly listening to music at 95 db & above ( C weighting ) / then ( rhetorically ) how much reduction in "DB" is required ( throughout the rest of the house ) to insure that the rest of the family don't eventually kick you to the curb ( or hide your amps ) .
- Is this broad-band noise reduction in the order of 20db, 30db , 40db or more ?
- Nobody except you & yours can determine how much isolation is required to "buy back the peace" .
- The amount of noise reduction required determines the amount of money you need to spend .
- It's amazing how much money can be saved by just reducing ones' playback level ( think how much cheaper just going to headphones actually is ) .

A Method :

- To determine the amount of noise reduction ( required in your environment ), go to Radio Shack and buy yourself a sound level meter .
- Then measure the sound level ( using the "C" weighting ) to measure the level of noise spill ( ie; your music ) present at any location of contention within the house ( obviously, while music is being played at your preferred playback level ) .
- Turn the music down until the "noise" at that same location becomes acceptable . Make a new db measurement . Note the new db level.
- The difference in DB is the level of noise reduction necessary for peace & harmony within your home.
- This figure could be written into a Contractors' Building Agreement ( that specifically addresses, noise reduction ) .


Carpet on the floor with a dropped acoustical panel ceiling. It also has been suggested that a full length curtain with a rubber backing would be great. I am staying away from the fiberglass since it does not have as good sound proofing properties as the rock wool (Roxul).

Sound Proofing a Room is a different beast than merely treating the room to improve its' acoustics

- Unfortunately, what you've mentioned above are merely panacea(s) tossed at an unspecified problem .
- Sound proofing requires the implementation of proven techniques for sound absorption & sound blocking / "a dropped ceiling" stuffed with acoustic insulation will offer measurable isolation ( while the same ceiling with no insulation offers much much less isloation ) .
- Rug will alter the "inroom" acoustics but barely alter the transmission of a whole range of frequencies heard outside of the room .

My advice ?

- Purchase some reference books on the subject ( a few are already mentioned above ) so that you become familiar with the proper terms of reference ( such as Sound Reduction Indexes ) and the complexities ( costs ) of tackling these problems.

- Then hire a professional to implement your needs ( once you can articulate these needs to him ) .

<> cheers :)

[loud mouth]

I had what i thought were 2235's re-coned in the spring by a reputable jbl dealer only to have one starting to sound scratchy installed it into the other 4430 cabinet to verify its the woofer and not something else that's when i noticed they are 2234's you guys are great on this site with all the help full info that's how i found out what was supposed to be in those cab's 2235 not 2234. but reading on someone said a 2234 is a 2235 without the mass ring installed
so back to the re builder it went
3 weeks later he called let me know the mass ring came loose i was just listening waiting to hear what this will cost me. he said he called jbl they wont cover the repair and wow hes not going to charge me
i remember they said a 30 day grantee came with the new cones so imagine my surprise
wants me to bring the other woofer in so he can check it out make sure its not getting loose I'm good with that
when all of this was going on my buddy came over with a pair of Cornwall's
hes always wanted to convert me to klipsch
everything they say about Cornwall's is true! sound was great
but now i have the wrong amp again if i stay with the klipsch mc2500
so needless to say insulating the garage went to the way back burner
but my faith in jbl has been restored

[Marvin]

The HVAC guy involved in the construction of my new house suggested BIB or blown in bats. This is a celulose product and he say it will provide the much needed acoustic sound damping qualities I am looking for. I'm not trying to sound "proof" my room, just construct a good room for listening to my music without disturbing the other members of the household. I prefer to play my music at realistic levels. Fairly loud but not wall shaking.

Has anyone used this product? He said it can be blown in as thick as needed. I also plan to install some of the other options mentioned here. Thanks for the response.

[midlife]

Clear everything out of that cluttered garage and spray with cellulose. Will give you better climate insulation and sound deadening.
Yep, cellulose, put it on thick, its gonna work pretty good for ya. You could spray paint over the insulation to give you any color to the "textured walls" of your garage.

[Akira]

Sound isolation is mainly dependent on the combination of 2 factors working together: absorption combined with a dense (solid) physical barrier. Employing insulation on the inner walls ONLY, does little to stop sound leakage to the outside. Usually all this accomplishes is a diminished SPL level inside which you can quickly make up to get back to your usual comfortable listening level.

For absorption, Roxul is better than fiberglass and CHEAPER too.
For a physical barrier you want to stop transmission in the form of sympathetic vibration. Of course a concrete wall is not always practical so a sub wall consisting of heavy gyb rock followed by insulation and the smallest of air space will suffice. This secondary wall may consist of a SINGLE panel with the insulation directly facing the outer garage wall. You would then have to apply an additional layer of insulation on the inner walls, but you don't want a totally dead room because that just produces dead sound and there is a tendency to turn it up even more to make up for a lifeless response in your system. This is the advantage of the dual wall approach!
It will also pay off for itself in the form of utility savings; again insulation on the inside does little in this regard.

I WOULD NOT HIRE A PRO. The cost of such will equal the cost of materials; you just have to supply the labor.
Unless you are constructing a high end installation there is enough DIY info on the net to do a decent and effective job, though nothing near the 100% level. Many low level project studios are constructed in this way with acceptable results.
Examples: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-construction-acoustics/

p.s. Though the concrete wall solution is best but not practical, it does have the advantage of correct left/right phase response in the low mid range around 300Hz as the sound waves bounce back on their 2nd reflection. A solid wall produces equal reflective time alignment.

[John VDC]

two completely differetn issues (as has been touched on):
damping and control for sound quality WITHIN THE ROOM

and

SOUND ISOLATION for sound coming-in or going out of the room

the former is usually sound-absorbtion, which is batting and foam and all the 'soft goods' approach. they do VERY little at all about sound going THROUGH the walls, ceiling and floor.

You question was about the latter and that has only one answer ... MASS, weight, density... and lots of it.
One approach is to just brute-force beef up the walls with sandwich layers of drywall and MDF paneling, using the green 'liquid-nails-like' special adhesive that damps sound transmission. Be sure the walls and ceiling can stand the added weight!

[John VDC]

the aforementioned green glue is, as I incomprehensibly forgot,
ummmm...
GREENGLUE...


http://www.greengluecompany.com/

[bigobassman]

Anyone, but particularly John VDC and Akira. Would you explain with a little more detail the sound going out prevention method? Neighbor has complained about band practice in my attached garage. It has one long door, 20'x8', and I suspect that a good bit of leakage is through it. Insulated doors are $1200 or more. That leaves me with basically 1 outer wall that would be a point of leakage too. It consists of the outer wooden wall only, no insulation at all. Greatly appreciate any help, particularly in the do this with, then do this with this, then do this with this approach. :)

[hjames]

New Poster ->
Anyone, but particularly John VDC and Akira. Would you explain with a little more detail the sound going out prevention method? Neighbor has complained about band practice in my attached garage. It has one long door, 20'x8', and I suspect that a good bit of leakage is through it. Insulated doors are $1200 or more. That leaves me with basically 1 outer wall that would be a point of leakage too. It consists of the outer wooden wall only, no insulation at all. Greatly appreciate any help, particularly in the do this with, then do this with this, then do this with this approach. :)

Tell us more about the structure - is it attached to the side of a house or is it standalone?
Do you actually use it as a garage?
If you were to put a regular framed door in the wall, do you still have need for the rollup door?
Is the interior just open studs with no interior wall?
What is the ceiling/roof like - is it closed in or just open joists and the roof?

[sonofagun]

Ya know, good luck! In my experience, once a neighbor (or adjacent tenant) starts complaining about noise, no matter what you do they will just keep on complaining!

With the amps and guitars used nowadays, anything short of 10' thick walls just won't do the trick.

Find another place to practice in.

[Mr. Widget]

Greatly appreciate any help, particularly in the do this with, then do this with this, then do this with this approach. :)Expect to spend far more than $1200 if you really want to have an effective noise control system. $1200 for an insulated door is certainly a good start, but you will also need to insulate and rock the exterior walls. The best insulation and rock for the job are not at Home Depot and do cost a bit.


Widget

[bigobassman]

New Poster ->

Tell us more about the structure - is it attached to the side of a house or is it standalone?
Do you actually use it as a garage?
If you were to put a regular framed door in the wall, do you still have need for the rollup door?
Is the interior just open studs with no interior wall?
What is the ceiling/roof like - is it closed in or just open joists and the roof?

It's attached to the house. 2 walls being inside walls adjacent to other rooms in the house. The 2 other walls are the door referenced above and an exterior wall with 2 insulated windows.

I haven't used it as a garage in a few years, but need to leave it usable for that purpose for future use as much as possible. So I would answer yes to keeping the rollup door.

All of the walls have a finish panel to the interior, but no insulation.

There is a ceiling consisting of celotex type panels attached to the rafters.

I've added acoustical tiles and some studio foam which helped some, but there's still a good amount of sound leaking out.

I realize that there are no cheap fixes, but I'm looking at options of what works best on down to doing nothing and the relative amount of money involved for different levels of quietness.

Thanks. :)

[John VDC]

I know the following will be WAY more than you will ever need as it's 32 VERY detailed web-forum-pages chronicling, in text and pictures and diagrams, one man's 2-year story of building a remarkable home studio and all of the mistakes and madness that it entailed... from drainage to electrical, to contractors... all from a construction-savy man's own well-thought-out plans, adaptations and false leads and eventual successes.
We learn more from mistakes than success and there's much here to be had... and for all that many here will find it a fascinating (and sympathetic) journey.
THAT SAID, within it is some considerable detail of how serious isolation was achieved with simple sheer wall-layered mass.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9156

[Mr. Widget]

I've added acoustical tiles and some studio foam which helped some, but there's still a good amount of sound leaking out.This stuff is for acoustic control... makes your room sound better. It is not intended to prevent sound leakage.

What you need is noise control (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&q=noise+control&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=)... do some Google searching. There are tons and tons of sites that specifically deal with this... you'll find tips ranging from building isolated floating inner walls to throwing mattresses up against your garage door.

In the simplest terms you need to add mass to all exterior surfaces and make sure your space is air tight.


Widget

[John VDC]

As mentioned here form VERY good sources, sound LEAKAGE is really only dealt with by sheer mass.

"I haven't used it as a garage in a few years, but need to leave it usable for that purpose for future use as much as possible. So I would answer yes to keeping the rollup door."

that door is a sieve. only thing that comes to mind is willingness to built a wall against the door that you can take out when you want it back as a garage


"All of the walls have a finish panel to the interior, but no insulation."

anything that screws/nails/bolts to the framing will directly conduct sound to the outside surface.


"There is a ceiling consisting of celotex type panels attached to the rafters."

Again, mostly transparent to sound and running it straight up through teh roof.


"I've added acoustical tiles and some studio foam which helped some, but there's still a good amount of sound leaking out."

Again, the idea of addding layers of panels with isolating adhesive between can do a lot to mitigate all of this by adding mass and some level of buffering between panels, reducing conduction.

[hjames]

Okay - reading the comments and your post - a couple ideas come to mind.

When someone builds a recording studio, the idea is to isolate the sound room from exterior noises, and vice versa. Critical to that is to have sound deadened walls that have dead air space in between, and have no connection to the exterior.

First, deaden the existing structure
You can hang moving blankets and quits on the inside of the rollup door - maybe DIY foam panels within the door to deaden it. I would suggest some kind of spray-in insulation on the outer walls and ceiling to deaden them as well. You can glue large sheets of building insulation on the outside and cover it with a stucco material as well. If you have no sound proofing now, anything will be an improvement.

If you don't want to remove the big garage door - why not build a sound-proof room within your garage. Just don't nail any of the support studs to the outside walls.


It's attached to the house. 2 walls being inside walls adjacent to other rooms in the house. The 2 other walls are the door referenced above and an exterior wall with 2 insulated windows.

I haven't used it as a garage in a few years, but need to leave it usable for that purpose for future use as much as possible. So I would answer yes to keeping the rollup door.

All of the walls have a finish panel to the interior, but no insulation.

There is a ceiling consisting of celotex type panels attached to the rafters.

I've added acoustical tiles and some studio foam which helped some, but there's still a good amount of sound leaking out.

I realize that there are no cheap fixes, but I'm looking at options of what works best on down to doing nothing and the relative amount of money involved for different levels of quietness.

Thanks. :)

[jcrobso]

They were easier to install and provided good thermal and sound insulation. I don't think that you have said what type of overhead door you have?
Lay fiber glass bats over the ceiling tiles, put insulation into the walls.
Buy your neighbor a pair of hearing protectors?:blink: OK maybe not the best idea.

[hjames]

An amazing informative read - thanks for sharing the link, John!


I know the following will be WAY more than you will ever need as it's 32 VERY detailed web-forum-pages ...

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9156

[bigobassman]

I thank you for the comments, references and information. All will be taken into consideration for future planning. Thanks again. :D

[SteveW]

Once had a jam room in my pole barn. With bare uninsulated metal walls it was stupid bad sounding and you could hear it rattle from a mile away.

Had an outfit spray 3" of urethane with 1" of cellulose sprayed on top of that. The urethane is highly flammable and if drywall doesn't cover the urethane, local code required the cellulose at a min. of 1".

With the urethane applied to all the surfaces (except the floor) I played a 100 watt marshall stack from the outside with a 50' cord - not that much better. The urethane is primarily a heat insulator.

Next day the cellulose was sprayed and I did the same test. Radical isolation improvement. Cost for both layers was $3000.00

I did end up hanging drywall later on, sealing all the gaps with acoustic sealer. Quieter yet on the outside but worse inside - the bottom end leaked out more (that was a good thing internally) before the drywall was added so I had to deal with that.

If I had to do it again I would skip the urethane and the drywall and go thick as practical with the cellulose only. Different colors available (I used white).

The cellulose fibers have a tendency to come 'unglued' and drop to the floor for awhile. A little extra binder might be good.

If you require isolation beyond this level the cost will go way up.

[Earl K]

- Hook the audio output of your computer to your "loudest" full-range speakers / then give these "test scenarios" a workout .

- The following interactive "noise reduction" workup is coutesy of Auralex (http://www.auralex.com/sound_isolation_rc8/sound_isolation_rc8.asp) .

http://www.auralexuniversity.com/NeighborsHeader.jpg (http://www.auralexuniversity.com/NeighborsWMA.html)

[Earl K]

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/images/logo_200x78.gif (http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php) is a great forum to ask some intelligent questions when planning & building any DIY studio project ( where controlling unwanted sound transmission is always part of the building equation ) .

Forum Rules are as follows ;




Before you start posting here please read up topics similar to your query and learn the jargon etc.
You can start by reading this site:

http://johnlsayers.com/Recmanual/index.htm

you should also check out this site and take a look at some of the construction methods demonstrated there:

http://johnlsayers.com/Studio/index.htm

drawing programs used are

http://sketchup.google.com/download.html

and http://www.smartdraw.com (http://www.smartdraw.com/)


You will NOT be assisted on this site if you:

1. Don't fill in the Location section in your profile - this is an international site and we need to know what country you are in.

2. Put up a post saying "I have a room X feet x Y feet - what should I do?"

3. Put up a plan that has no dimensions and does not point out pertinent facts like there's a pole in the middle of the room and the right hand wall is all glass.

4. Post pictures greater than 700px wide.

5. Don't explain what you want to do within the studio - how loud you play, what kind of recording setup you have etc.

6. Don't explain how much isolation is needed because of neighbours etc.

Please also read the "Don't Post" articles specific to each forum before you post.

Welcome to Recording Studio Design. http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif

cheers
john

Obviously, do some basic homework before asking overly simplistic questions .

<> cheers :)

[Earl K]

I know the following will be WAY more than you will ever need as it's 32 VERY detailed web-forum-pages chronicling, in text and pictures and diagrams, one man's 2-year story of building a remarkable home studio and all of the mistakes and madness that it entailed... from drainage to electrical, to contractors... all from a construction-savy man's own well-thought-out plans, adaptations and false leads and eventual successes.
We learn more from mistakes than success and there's much here to be had... and for all that many here will find it a fascinating (and sympathetic) journey.
THAT SAID, within it is some considerable detail of how serious isolation was achieved with simple sheer wall-layered mass.

http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/vi...hp?f=10&t=9156 (http://www.johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=9156)

Great link John .

:)

[Earl K]

- Some more info to consider when building a room dedicated to music listening .

- I don't know ( or have forgotten ) the STC for these 2 arrangements .

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26057&d=1182817199

There's no point just doing the walls / the ceiling needs sound control also .

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=26056&d=1182817136

It's obvious ( to me ) that I took these pics from a web-site selling sound-blocking products / I just can't remember which one .

<> cheers