Hovland Closes

[Chas]

http://www.stereophile.com/news/hovland_calls_it_quits/

[Titanium Dome]

Sad, but not unexpected or unusual. :(

[Ducatista47]

"All Hovland company design rights remain in the hands of a secured creditor on whose promissory note Hovland defaulted"

That is like a racing family putting up the tools and pink slips as a bet and losing the race. At least there is a theoretical shot at resurrection; the creditor would love to sell the intellectual property for cash.

Much sadder was Sun Tour, where part of the deal of a sale of naming rights was total destruction of the tooling.

Clark

[4313B]

"Our original business model called for about 40% of our business to be domestic and 60% international," he said. "Over the last few years, sales were weighted further and further toward the international arena, until they became almost 90% international. This lowered our profit margin greatly, because while US distributors get their product at 40% off retail, international distributors receive a 52–56% discount."

"Sales in the last quarter of last year and beginning of this year were dismal worldwide. In the second quarter of this year, they absolutely died. We had a staff of 12, including ourselves, and our monthly break-even was $90,000 a month. Every time we fell short, we three company officers as well as our vendors couldn't get paid. We hung on for more than a year, but this summer it became completely untenable."

First rule of business: If it isn't sold at Walmart you're screwed... maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but at some point Walmart is gonna get ya... ;)

[JBLRaiser]

"Our original business model called for about 40% of our business to be domestic and 60% international," he said. "Over the last few years, sales were weighted further and further toward the international arena, until they became almost 90% international. This lowered our profit margin greatly, because while US distributors get their product at 40% off retail, international distributors receive a 52–56% discount."

"Sales in the last quarter of last year and beginning of this year were dismal worldwide. In the second quarter of this year, they absolutely died. We had a staff of 12, including ourselves, and our monthly break-even was $90,000 a month. Every time we fell short, we three company officers as well as our vendors couldn't get paid. We hung on for more than a year, but this summer it became completely untenable."

First rule of business: If it isn't sold at Walmart you're screwed... maybe not today and maybe not tomorrow, but at some point Walmart is gonna get ya... ;)

Walmart put them out of business.:dont-know but, slamming Walmart does sell papers.;)

[4313B]

Walmart didn't put them out of business. It's just a mindset. People like cheaper capacitors.

Hovland's demise is unfortunate.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I wonder how Solen are going??

[4313B]

I wonder how Solen are going??:dont-know

Hopefully they are used by enough successful manufacturers to keep them afloat.

[Ian Mackenzie]

I figured you would be in the top 100 customers (after JBL):p

I mean you basically buy 8 off every value. Right!!

That would be down right insane with Hovland.

[boputnam]

Walmart didn't put them out of business. It's just a mindset. I got it.

"Walmart", has become a metaphor for the now, and of the future. :(

[Mr. Widget]

I got it.

"Walmart", has become a metaphor for the now, and of the future. :(I'd prefer to think of it more in terms of A Christmas Carol. Not necessarily the future we must have... I keep hoping people will turn away from our landfill culture and start seeking quality.

JBL and Great Plains Audio have been wonderful resources for keeping innumerable high quality loudspeakers out of the landfill. I am sure great numbers have slipped through the cracks, but we are quite fortunate that replacement diaphragms, recone kits, and a fair amount of backdoor support have been offered so that so many fine older systems are not only still with us, but are still working properly.

I hope that the future is as kind to the Project Arrays and Everests down the road... right now it isn't looking terribly bright, but that may change.

Unfortunately most of the rest of life isn't filled with such quality as vintage JBLs or Altecs. There are so many things we buy that simply are not expected to function longer than the batteries assembled inside of them... in that world there isn't much room for a brand like Hovland. :(


Widget

[grumpy]

...so B&L will continue to take over, WALL-E will have plenty to do, and
the sheep will be coddled by machines...

(sorry... just saw a fair chunk of that on a new blu-ray disc/plasma system)

If my work has any significance, I hope that it contributes to a brighter,
rather than messier (however you want to read that) existence.

[Mr. Widget]

(sorry... just saw a fair chunk of that on a new blu-ray disc/plasma system)
Nothing wrong with Blu-ray... however almost all of the players like the $99 DVD players before them are 1-2 year designs... they simply are built as cheaply as possible to coddle us sheep until the next shiny mechanical trinket comes along... this is not sustainable.

A friend who designs junk, sorry... merchandise, that is sold at Wallmart and elsewhere told me that his Wallmart buyer has told him that the big W is going Green... apparently in a fairly significant way. They are dictating packaging reductions and a myriad of other requirements... that is all good. I doubt they will require products with a 10 year lifespan though as that would reduce their sales... why sell a customer one shiny disc spinner (or whatever) when you can sell him 5 or 6 over the same time span? :banghead:


Widget

[Carl_Huff]

This begs the larger question to be asked ...

Are audiophiles the next dinosaur? Are we going extinct??

I know many high end manufacturers in the audiophile space. Not a one of them is making money right now. That needs to change very soon. Nobody's pockets are that deep.

______________
Carl Huff

[Mr. Widget]

Are audiophiles the next dinosaur? Are we going extinct??:yes:

I think so... along with stamp collectors, model railroaders, and photographers who used darkrooms...


Widget

[Ian Mackenzie]

This begs the larger question to be asked ...

Are audiophiles the next dinosaur? Are we going extinct??

I know many high end manufacturers in the audiophile space. Not a one of them is making money right now. That needs to change very soon. Nobody's pockets are that deep.

______________
Carl Huff


Apparently not.

Look at the recent re birth of Vinyl.

[SEAWOLF97]

I doubt they will require products with a 10 year lifespan though as that would reduce their sales...
Widget

The oft quoted story of the original Ford Mustang (1965/6 ?) comes to mind...it was so overbuild that the maintenance shops weren't getting their normal work, est abt 250k miles b4 rebuilds...so Ford decided to cheapen the cars down (FWIW) :barf:

REALLY OT: with McNamaras recent passing, it was discussed how auto safety design was an afterthought in the 50's/60's...seat belts were not available until Robert Strange mandated them in FoMoCo vehicles.


:yes:

I think so... along with , and photographers who used darkrooms...
Widget

The "High End" ones still do use film.

[Ducatista47]

Check this out for one of the most important and interesting evolutions of a Weltbild (world view) in modern history. Learn from this history or repeat it, your choice. I wish all one issue voters would see this before presidential elections...

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0317910/

Be prepared for your hair to stand on end as you enter the inside track RE: the Cuban missile crisis.

By the way, at present we are still mostly repeating it despite recent progress.


The "Eleven Lessons" listed in the film are as follows: - 1. Empathize with your enemy. - 2. Rationality will not save us. - 3. There's something beyond one's self. - 4. Maximize efficiency. - 5. Proportionality should be a guideline in war. - 6. Get the data. - 7. Belief and seeing are both often wrong. - 8. Be prepared to reexamine your reasoning. - 9. In order to do good, you may have to engage in evil. - 10. Never say never. - 11. You can't change human nature.
Apply these lessons to the economy, please. But see the film. It is way more than the lessons, which are only section titles. I have seen thousands of films. This is the most important of them.

Back on topic, I think many more small audio related companies will fail. It is sad, as having something great to offer (vs overpriced bs) will be of no help in this economic shakeup. The great mom & pop operations are dying like lemmings; WalMart and Bose will survive and prosper.

Clark

[4313B]

Continuing with the OT angle:

50 things that are being killed by the internet (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/6133903/50-things-that-are-being-killed-by-the-internet.html)


11) Music stores
In a world where people don't want to pay anything for music, charging them £16.99 for 12 songs in a flimsy plastic case is no business model.

[DavidF]

I got it.

"Walmart", has become a metaphor for the now, and of the future. :(

...and the past. Not an original concept. As I recall Henry Ford adopted it in Ford's Model T era. He was product price obsessed about the Lizzie so he constantly put pressure on his suppliers to keep prices down. The public bought into the concept then, as well. Sold millions of Model Ts and changed the landscape of America.

[JBLRaiser]

...and the past. Not an original concept. As I recall Henry Ford adopted it in Ford's Model T era. He was product price obsessed about the Lizzie so he constantly put pressure on his suppliers to keep prices down. The public bought into the concept then, as well. Sold millions of Model Ts and changed the landscape of America.


LOW PRICES, seems politically incorrect in today's world.:dont-know

[hjames]

Its not low prices that are wrong, its artificially low prices, low prices due to merchandise made under criminal or slave-labor type conditions. If you have prison labor making products at prices that normal business cannot match - that not "politically incorrect" its "morally incorrect".
Sweatshops just aren't decent sources of product.


LOW PRICES, seems politically incorrect in today's world.:dont-know

[MikeBrewster77]

Wal-Mart actually claims to have pretty rigorous guidelines that preclude them purchasing from suppliers that don't maintain a certain amount of social responsibility (c.f., walmartstores.com/download/2727.pdf (http://walmartstores.com/download/2727.pdf).) How vigorously they enforce these, I don't know.

The problem with exerting significant margin pressure on your supplier base is that they inevitably look for ways to cut corners in order to remain profitable. Even in volume scenarios, it's quite often not possible to turn a profit when you're constantly facing stringent pricing demands from your largest clients. The end result is sub-par products manufactured in an attempt to meet client guidelines while maintaining an acceptable level of profitability. In the end the consumer suffers - even the consumers who don't shop at big-box outlets since, if a supplier is going to re-tool to meet the demands of their largest client (which Wal-mart almost invariably is) they're not going to run separate lines for other clients who might not exert the same pricing pressure. The quality of the product therefore is diluted irrespective of where it's sold.

So, inevitably, people go to Wal-Mart because they can get the same crap product cheaper there than they would elsewhere. Vicious cycle...

[JBLRaiser]

Its not low prices that are wrong, its artificially low prices, low prices due to merchandise made under criminal or slave-labor type conditions. If you have prison labor making products at prices that normal business cannot match - that not "politically incorrect" its "morally incorrect".
Sweatshops just aren't decent sources of product.

I always thought it was about ME getting the best deal possible FOR MY FAMILY OF FIVE. Not whether some third worlder is getting union wages. Really don't have the time, nor the concern. I NEVER will shop according to someone elses' made up moral litmus test. :barf:

[MikeBrewster77]

I always thought it was about ME getting the best deal possible FOR MY FAMILY OF FIVE. Not whether some third worlder is getting union wages. Really don't have the time, nor the concern. I NEVER will shop according to someone elses' made up moral litmus test. :barf:

I don't think you'd feel that way it was your family of five that was working in sweatshop like conditions for an unlivable wage to benefit American consumerism. How you can say you have no concern for "third worlders" and completely lack any sense of social conscience is incomprehensible. Americentrism at its worst..........

[JBLRaiser]

I don't think you'd feel that way it was your family of five that was working in sweatshop like conditions for an unlivable wage to benefit American consumerism. How you can say you have no concern for "third worlders" and completely lack any sense of social conscience is incomprehensible. Americentrism at its worst..........

It's not me and I don't give a damn.:p

[BMWCCA]

...if a supplier is going to re-tool to meet the demands of their largest client (which Wal-mart almost invariably is) they're not going to run separate lines for other clients who might not exert the same pricing pressure. The quality of the product therefore is diluted irrespective of where it's sold.

I don't think that's an absolute. Check out the Levi's line at WalMart. They call them something like "Signature" but they're not the same quality and have unique model numbers not found anywhere else.

Where Levi's quality in general has slipped since moving all assembly out of the U.S., the stuff WalMart sells is noticeably "cheaper" still. I've been buying 501 button-fly Levis for over forty years. The 501 was supposedly the last jeans model made in the Levi's San Francisco factory before they shuttered it. I remember maybe twenty years ago when they first became "assembled' in places like the Dominican Republic from "U.S.-made parts" and one leg would be twisted. Those were in the old "XXX" denim days of "shrink-to-fit".

Now the same size in the same store will come from four different countries and I can no longer trust them to fit the same. The current worst ones seem to come from Egypt where the watch pocket sticks too far out of the normal pocket and the inseam length isn't even correct. And they're now "XX" denim. The best now come from Haiti, Mexico, and Dominican Republic but tariffs and quotas move production on all textile pieces around on a regular basis. I didn't check the country-of-origin on the WalMart "private label" Levis but I will next time a gun is held to my head and I have to go there!

[Bemopti123]

I have heard the most important aspect of these consumerism that is destroying quality here...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=106431468

I think the it is pointless for people or for companies to point fingers of their demise on a competitor. If you listen to the show and perhaps read the book, we will notice that the blame for the fall of quality and for the demise of long lasting value on our society. Everyone expects things to continuously improve, for companies to forever quest of profits every single quarter. The same attitude goes for all sort of institutions, be it governments, schools etc... Nothing can continuously go up, as it is unnatural. Economists and other economic charlatans have convinced the masses that EVERYONE can progress, become wealthy, spend up to oblivion and face no consequences.

Now that the economy is supposedly stabilizing, the immediacy to at least brake the advance of this "Cheap" culture seems to be getting drowned out. There is no incentive for companies or other influential institutions to retool and remodel what our future economy and society should be.

It is sad that great companies like Hovland and other are the victims of the times. Until people learn to really appreciate quality once again, we will see more and more epitaphs for audio companies that stood for quality. :banghead:

[Tom Brennan]

It's not me and I don't give a damn.:p


Someday you'll have to explain that attitude at the Pearly Gates. He'll probably say "give him back his sawbuck and tell him to go to Hell."

[JBLRaiser]

Someday you'll have to explain that attitude at the Pearly Gates. He'll probably say "give him back his sawbuck and tell him to go to Hell."


Speaking for God now, are ya?:applaud:

[hjames]

Think most of us figure it beats speaking for Old Scratch ...:applaud:



Speaking for God now, are ya?:applaud:

[JBLRaiser]

Think most of us figure it beats speaking for Old Scratch ...:applaud:

a moral consensus at the OLD LH. :barf: