LE14A + LE85/HL91 + which crossover?

[tomee]

I'd like to know which JBL crossovers would work to put the LE14A together with an LE85 (or 2420, or LE75, modern equivalent) and the HL91 horn/lens. JBL sold such a system, called the S14, using the LX7 crossover. I asked about the LX7 crossover here...
http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=25293

I'm wondering if a different crossover would work. N1200, LX-8, LX-10, and N200B, all seem like good candidates if the LX7 can't be located.

I've seen Zilch's Q&D thread, and the Ewave on AK, and almost every LE14 project I could find here so I know there are lots of options for using the LE14A. But I'm really curious about what an all-vintage-all-JBL system would be like and I think the way to find out is to try it. Buying an L300 or L200 is not possible, so I thought I'd try this. If I don't like it, it seems that if I stick with good JBL components it should be a cost-recoverable experiment.

I find it hard to believe I'd be the first person to try to do this - anyone here with experience with this driver combination?

[speakerdave]

You're talking about JBL's Lancer 101 or S101; it uses the LX10. Schematic in this thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1684

This arrangement lets the woofer run full range, which obviates the necessity and problems of having an inductor in front of the woofer.

That system used the potato masher horn, not the slant plate diffuser, so the tonal balance of the speaker may be somewhat different.

By the way, this is old technology, and I don't know why anyone would build it nowadays, except, as you say, to find out what the old systems sound like. But if that's what you want, you must build them exactly the same.

[tomee]

SpeakerDave, thanks for the advice. I'm fully aware of the old-tech aspect - part of the allure in a way. Sort of like driving around in an old Camaro instead of a new car. Plenty of people running restored JBL 43xx systems as well as AR3's and Large Advents and happy with them. I'm not expecting anything to blow away the current top end JBL systems but to see how it would stack up against the other 1970's speakers I've got. When finances allow I'd like to build a system based on JBL drivers from the 21st century (2435, etc..) but that's a few years off for now.

I've ruled out the use of the S101 circuit because of the reports I've read of how it sounds (possibly due to the full-range woofer). I think I'm going to keep searching for that LX7 crossover schematic that JBL designed to go with the LE85/HL91, unless someone here has a better idea. In the mean time I'm studying all the JBL crossovers to try to learn something. :)

[jbl]

[quote=speakerdave;254528]You're talking about JBL's Lancer 101 or S101; it uses the LX10. Schematic in this thread:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=1684
Not really. The L101 used the 175 (2410) driver.

[speakerdave]

. . . . Not really. The L101 used the 175 (2410) driver.
Picky, picky, picky! :)Yeah, I guess you're right, and I know many people prefer the smaller-magneted 1" drivers. However, JBL treated the two, LE175 and LE85, as interchangeable in the system charts in those days (see the 1976 cat.). You're not asking the OP to go out and find new compression drivers, are you?

The 2410 would be phenolic.

[Zilch]

According to Ethos:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=37573#post37573

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/catalogs/1976-comp.htm

[tomee]

According to Ethos:

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=37573#post37573

http://lansingheritage.org/html/jbl/catalogs/1976-comp.htm

Thanks Zilch. I'm really interested in the S14, from 1964
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1964/page39.jpg
..all of $54 less than the S7 system, and fits in a smaller box too!

using the LX7 crossover...
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1964/page19.jpg

and I also see it in the 1964 Metregon as the S92 package...
http://www.lansingheritage.org/images/jbl/catalogs/1964/page26.jpg

I've spent several evenings searching for an LX7 schematic or even a reference to it. One mention here of someone using one and I sent them a PM, but searching Google I don't find too much on the S14 or LX7 crossover.

[Zilch]

I don't know what LX7 or LX80A are, but there is someone here who likely does. Just have to tweak his interest, is all, and me posting here may comprise the requisite trigger. ;)

I suspect they're approaching 3110, which is what I'd be using, but those are tough to DIY since there's a tapped autotransformer. An equivalent could be developed, but nobody's willing to invest the effort.

For that, I'd punt and use the N200B without the HF boost. See the "Keeper" crossover Todd and I designed.

The conundrum here is, "I wanna try a crappy old design, but I'd prefer a less crappy one...." :p

[tomee]

I don't know what LX7 or LX80A are, but there is someone here who likely does. Just have to tweak his interest, is all, and me posting here may comprise the requisite trigger. ;)

I suspect they're approaching 3110, which is what I'd be using, but those are tough to DIY since there's a tapped autotransformer. An equivalent could be developed, but nobody's willing to invest the effort.

For that, I'd punt and use the N200B without the HF boost. See the "Keeper" crossover Todd and I designed.

The conundrum here is, "I wanna try a crappy old design, but I'd prefer a less crappy one...." :p

Well, I'm not sure who it is that knows the answers (I'll guess it's 4313B?), but I thought this being 'Lansing Heritage' it would be the best place to look. I take it you mean that it's a 'crappy' design compared to what's available today, not when it was new. If was so bad compared to everything else on the market back then I can't see how JBL cold have survived. Looking into my 1964 Allied catalog I see very few speakers that today would be considered as good or better than JBL at the time - and most of those companies are long gone or just marketed as names today (AR and Altec come to mind).

I'll keep an eye open for these mystery crossovers, and keep playing around with the Ewave setup I currently have the LE14s coupled with.

[Zilch]

I take it you mean that it's a 'crappy' design compared to what's available today, not when it was new. If was so bad compared to everything else on the market back then I can't see how JBL cold have survived. Looking into my 1964 Allied catalog I see very few speakers that today would be considered as good or better than JBL at the time - and most of those companies are long gone or just marketed as names today (AR and Altec come to mind).Yes, that's correct. There's no denying they did exceedingly well in context of their time, and some hold their own today, too, as most here know from experience. I am referring to your earlier observation regarding L101, actually, in good spirit.... :)

[tomee]

Yes, that's correct. There's no denying they did exceedingly well in context of their time, and some hold their own today, too, as most here know from experience. I am referring to your earlier observation regarding L101, actually, in good spirit.... :)

OK - I get it now. Full range woofers vs. a 'real' crossover like the LX5 and all that. :barf:

[Zilch]

LE14As have certainly stood the test of time, and it doesn't get much sweeter than LE85s with the original tangential aluminum diaphragms, in my book. You've picked a worthy combination.... :thmbsup:

[4313B]

I posted various schametics here:

Network Schematics (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=6170)

Note that the 124A/H (2203A/H), LE14A/H, and 136A/H (2231A/H) were often lumped together due to their sharing the same motor assembly (voice coil, top plate, magnet, etc.)

[Zilch]

Thank you, 4313B!

Those certainly fill in some gaps in the knowledge base here.... :thmbsup:

[tomee]

I posted various schametics here:

Network Schematics (http://audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=6170)

Note that the 124A/H (2203A/H), LE14A/H, and 136A/H (2231A/H) were often lumped together due to their sharing the same motor assembly (voice coil, top plate, magnet, etc.)

Wow, thanks! That's the first schematic I've seen anywhere for the LX7, and I hadn't seen the LX80 option until Zilch mentioned it - thank you very much for digging that out and posting it here! Much appreciated. :)

Now I have to track down some horns, lens, and drivers....

[speakerdave]

. . . . Now I have to track down some horns, lens, and drivers....

. . . . tapped inductors . . . .

[tomee]

. . . . tapped inductors . . . .

yes, a little wrench in the works there... I have to admit that it is looking like building an all-vintage system from scratch may not be the smartest thing to do with my money, but I'm not ruling it out yet.

[hjames]

yes, a little wrench in the works there... I have to admit that it is looking like building an all-vintage system from scratch may not be the smartest thing to do with my money, but I'm not ruling it out yet.
Well, I built 4333 networks based on G's design for my 4320/L200/?? project but I have the original 3110 Crossover networks that came with the 4320s ... I suspect the caps are long gone funky - but the tapped inductors should be ok ... its potted in beeswax, not too hard to warm, drain, and get access ...

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/3110%20Network.pdf

If your interested - I dunno - $50 sound fair for the pair?
I went in to fix a broken solder joint when I got them, but they are still in the cans - I can take pix tonight if interested ...

[jbl]

Picky, picky, picky! :)Yeah, I guess you're right, and I know many people prefer the smaller-magneted 1" drivers. However, JBL treated the two, LE175 and LE85, as interchangeable in the system charts in those days (see the 1976 cat.). You're not asking the OP to go out and find new compression drivers, are you?

The 2410 would be phenolic.
Yes, you're corect.
The 175 & LE85 were offered as an option for that system.
My mistake.

[tomee]

Well, I built 4333 networks based on G's design for my 4320/L200/?? project but I have the original 3110 Crossover networks that came with the 4320s ... I suspect the caps are long gone funky - but the tapped inductors should be ok ... its potted in beeswax, not too hard to warm, drain, and get access ...

http://www.jblproservice.com/pdf/Network%20Schematics/3110%20Network.pdf

If your interested - I dunno - $50 sound fair for the pair?
I went in to fix a broken solder joint when I got them, but they are still in the cans - I can take pix tonight if interested ...

Hi,
Thanks for the offer but I'm going to keep an eye out for the LX7 crossovers for now, as well as all the other bits at less than eye-popping price tags. I also have a pair of 3mH tapped inductors from an L55 I could DIY with if I needed to. As for the rest of it - I missed a complete 2420/2307/2308 pro setup just south of me last week for under $400. :biting:

How do you like the the L200 2-way?

[hjames]

Hi,
Thanks for the offer but I'm going to keep an eye out for the LX7 crossovers for now, as well as all the other bits at less than eye-popping price tags. I also have a pair of 3mH tapped inductors from an L55 I could DIY with if I needed to. As for the rest of it - I missed a complete 2420/2307/2308 pro setup just south of me last week for under $400. :biting:

How do you like the the L200 2-way?
Was okay, but better now, with the woofer upgraded to 2234, a 2405 slot added on top, and
G's 4333 equivalent circuit to sort the freqs. I have an upgrade kit to swap the short horn for a 2312,
even built the external doghouses to cover the CD driver when it sticks out the back, but so far
I haven't cut a hole in the back of my L200 cabs so it will fit.

Then again, I just got some 2397 horns and will probably try that upgrade first ...

That's the great thing - there's all this neat gear available to tinker around with!

[Robh3606]

Then again, I just got some 2397 horns and will probably try that upgrade first ...

Hello Heather

You running a 1" driver or do you have a pair of the big boys driving them?? They look like they are in good shape. How do you like them??

Rob:)

[hjames]

Hello Heather

You running a 1" driver or do you have a pair of the big boys driving them?? They look like they are in good shape. How do you like them??

Rob:)
Going to run them with aquaplassed 2425s first - waiting for adapters so I can hook them up, tho from what I hear I'll want a pair of the big boys to really hear what they can do ...
I think our TV room (with the 4341s) is too shallow for them to really work, the L200s in the Living room (its longer, and with a cathedral ceiling) will proably work better on them at first