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View Full Version : When "going green" goes too far



MikeBrewster77
03-29-2009, 11:54 AM
:biting: Warning: this thread is primarily a rant :biting:

Anyone else irked by the new "green" methods of packaging CD's that do away with the traditional jewel case arrangement? It all seems to have started with cardboard exterior packaging that retained the plastic jewel assembly inside; I was fine with that.

Now, though, some of the newer containers are coming out as completely cardboard packaging, with sleeves that hold the disc in the package. They require you to grasp the disc on the actual playing surface to get it out, and furthermore, the disc's playing surface gets rubbed against the stiff cardboard in the process. To add insult to injury, some aren't even coming with liner notes anymore.

Case in point, I purchased Patsy Cline's Definitive Collection disc the other day, and it came with nothing. I practically destroyed the cardboard looking for the damn liner notes (which I assumed I was just too stupid to find) only to read in fine print that they were available online. Now this wasn't some bargain bin $5 Greatest Hits CD with 10 tracks - it's the Definitive collection and had the price tag to go with it. So, while I'm all for saving the planet, can't you print the liner notes on the same paper-recyclable, biodegradable material you used for the disc's container?

Now, I've personally debunked the mythical promise of perfect sound forever with several discs I failed to handle with care, and admittedly that was my fault. But the new packaging is now forcing me to handle discs in a way that is completely contradictory to the advice we were all given when CD's first arrived on the scene. Anyone else remember the care instructions from earlier discs? To quote: For best results, you should apply the same care in storing and handling the Compact Disc as you would with conventional records. No cleaning is necessary if the Compact Disc is always held by its edges and is replaced in its case directly after playing. Well, now how in the hell do you expect me to do that when I have to wrestle with the damn thing just to get it out of the case? :banghead: And I can't help but think that repeatedly pushing and pulling a disc against a piece of cardboard ain't gonna do wonders for its longevity.

This is exactly the kind of eco-mania that has me saying screw the planet, save yourself. Well, not really, I'm completely onboard with "going green" but there has to be a better approach here. Maybe retain the plastic insert and make it out of 100% post-consumer recycled materials? Personally, I think the new style of packaging and omission of liner notes are just ways to cheapen the manufacturing process under the guise of being environmentally responsible :blah:. And yet record companies wonder why CD sales continue to plummet???

4313B
03-29-2009, 03:03 PM
All this should be downloadable. It's just data. CD's gotta go. :barf:

MikeBrewster77
03-29-2009, 04:35 PM
Totally agreed! And, honestly, what you're suggesting is truly the eco-friendly solution.

If I could obtain CD-quality (minimally) audio that could be downloaded to suitable storage hardware, and interface with my stereo (for audio) and my TV (for liner notes, etc.) than I would totally be onboard. Alas, we're not quite there yet in terms of quality, though the delivery methods are being introduced; for example, Xbox allows you to wirelessly access your music library on any networked Windows-based (of course) computer, and stream it through whatever audio system the console is hooked up to.

But, until it's perfected and I can get the audio quality I desire, I still want my damn liner notes and packaging that's not going to shorten the lifespan of my discs - even if they will likely be obsolete in 10 years :p


All this should be downloadable. It's just data. CD's gotta go. :barf:

mikebake
03-29-2009, 07:26 PM
I turned on every light I owned for Earth Hour.........................

Allanvh5150
03-29-2009, 10:17 PM
There are many ways to save the planet but no one seems interested at all........

JBLRaiser
03-30-2009, 04:19 AM
I turned on every light I owned for Earth Hour.........................

where there were a total of 13 in ceiling lights in our house, we now have 60. I can read the fine print from any corner of any room. :applaud:

mikebake
03-30-2009, 05:45 AM
There are many ways to save the planet but no one seems interested at all........
Maybe they don't think it needs "saved".

Tom Brennan
03-30-2009, 07:36 AM
Maybe they don't think it needs "saved".


People could be honest and say it's themselves they're out to save, not "the planet". But that smacks too much of self interest for social liberals (as opposed to economic liberals like me who are after the money and make no bones about it) and wouldn't sound virtuous and high falutin'.

mikebake
03-30-2009, 07:49 AM
I love you, man.

MikeBrewster77
03-30-2009, 08:21 AM
I have carbon footprint envy ;)


where there were a total of 13 in ceiling lights in our house, we now have 60. I can read the fine print from any corner of any room. :applaud:

Mr. Widget
03-30-2009, 08:37 AM
I turned on every light I owned for Earth Hour.........................
where there were a total of 13 in ceiling lights in our house, we now have 60. I can read the fine print from any corner of any room. :applaud:I think collectively we are responsible at least in part for Global Climate change... might be a small part might be a bit more... I care. But I am also able to think for myself and make my own decisions.

Economically and environmentally (the new mercury free versions) it makes sense to buy those freakin energy saving compact fluorescent lamps... I hate 'em... I use halogen where ever possible, I prefer the light quality and I am willing to pay for more energy and buy the more costly bulbs. I don't need to leave the lights on to make a statement.

As for "green" packaging... I do prefer plastic jewel boxes... I buy the empty ones and put the greenies in them... I get to spend more money (helping the economy) and use more oil... see this is one liberal tree hugger who is just like you guys... I bet you never would have guessed. ;)


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JBLRaiser
03-30-2009, 08:49 AM
all those speaker boxes in your avatar.....I'm with you, man.:D

mikebake
03-30-2009, 09:46 AM
I think collectively we are responsible at least in part for Global Climate change... might be a small part might be a bit more... I care. But I am also able to think for myself and make my own decisions.

Economically and environmentally (the new mercury free versions) it makes sense to buy those freakin energy saving compact fluorescent lamps... I hate 'em... I use halogen where ever possible, I prefer the light quality and I am willing to pay for more energy and buy the more costly bulbs. I don't need to leave the lights on to make a statement.

As for "green" packaging... I do prefer plastic jewel boxes... I buy the empty ones and put the greenies in them... I get to spend more money (helping the economy) and use more oil... see this is one liberal tree hugger who is just like you guys... I bet you never would have guessed. ;)


Widget
Well then how do you feel when they won't let you buy anything but flourescent?

hjames
03-30-2009, 09:53 AM
Well then how do you feel when they won't let you buy anything but flourescent?

Gee going for the W gut punch, are you??
he signed that dumb thing into law ...

And really, what IS the whole point of this troll-fest pile on...??
Just to show who's got the biggest ...

carbon "footprint" ...

Sheesh - back to CD packaging with the lot of you!

MikeBrewster77
03-30-2009, 09:55 AM
Truth be told, I just wanted my damn liner notes and a decent CD package :p



And really, what's the whole point of this troll-fest ...
to show whose got the biggest ...

carbon "footprint" ...

hjames
03-30-2009, 09:56 AM
Truth be told, I just wanted my damn liner notes and a decent CD package :p

Agreed - I got some of those dumb slide-in CD packages from Tony Levin, Fripp and the whole DGM music folks - i HATE those stupid packages!
And the Digpaks aren't any better - just the plastic insert glued to a cardboard wrapper

mikebake
03-30-2009, 10:21 AM
Gee going for the W gut punch, are you??
he signed that dumb thing into law ...

Which was one of the things that made me turn on him.

mikebake
03-30-2009, 10:22 AM
And really, what IS the whole point of this troll-fest pile on...??
Just to show who's got the biggest ...

carbon "footprint" ...


No, it's to show how stupid some of this green stuff is.

Mr. Widget
03-30-2009, 11:08 AM
Well then how do you feel when they won't let you buy anything but flourescent?I've given it some thought... two things will happen. First of all the new LED technology will improve so that color balance isn't an issue and then there is the NOS market... you can still buy NOS vacuum tubes that were made 50 years ago. I imagine I'll be able to buy replacement bulbs for the rest of my life... :bouncy:


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louped garouv
03-30-2009, 11:09 AM
If I could obtain CD-quality (minimally) audio that could be downloaded to suitable storage hardware, and interface with my stereo (for audio) and my TV (for liner notes, etc.) than I would totally be onboard. Alas, we're not quite there yet in terms of quality, though the delivery methods are being introduced; for example, Xbox allows you to wirelessly access your music library on any networked Windows-based (of course) computer, and stream it through whatever audio system the console is hooked up to.




you just need to change your music tastes...
;)

you can download WAV and OGG Vorbis files (and other 'loss-less' types) from many of the electronic dance music artists at sites like beatport, stompy, traxsource, and a host of others...

:D

as far as having a storage place, terrabyte sized drives are quite inexpensive now....

then all you need it the interface... which can be had as cheaply (or expensive) as one desires, based generally upon user requirements...

Mr. Widget
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
Truth be told, I just wanted my damn liner notes and a decent CD package :pA friend was teaching a design course at Carnegie Mellon last year and he asked his students how many had actually purchased music in any form during the previous year... they all looked at him as though he was nuts. None of them had.

...and you're worried about liner notes?


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mikebake
03-30-2009, 11:15 AM
As you go from a physical CD to a download, there is still a carbon footprint with energy consumption by servers etc.
Google the article on how much energy Google uses.

hjames
03-30-2009, 11:17 AM
:D

as far as having a storage place, terrabyte sized drives are quite inexpensive now....

then all you need it the interface... which can be had as cheaply (or expensive) as one desires, based generally upon user requirements...

yep, I just got a terrabyte Seagate barracuda for under $120 delivered ...

I've been using these external cases for data storage - hold 2 drives each -
The older ones (on the right) are Parallel ATA and connect through Firewire 800.
The new one (on the left) has Serial ATA drives and connects via USB interface.

louped garouv
03-30-2009, 11:38 AM
I've been using these external cases for data storage - hold 2 drives each -



probably a topic for another thread; but...

how redundant is your storage system?

i've had a few friends recently whose drives have 'bitten the dust'
luckily for them, their e-retailer of choice (beatport) will restore the
catalogue you've already purchased, free of charge...

had this not been the case, i could have seen them really really upset...

MikeBrewster77
03-30-2009, 11:40 AM
you just need to change your music tastes....
;)

Au contraire ;). I actually do listen to quite a bit of dance music. Ironically, though, it's the only genre I very rarely listen to "critically" so for me, quality is less of a concern than other types of music. Also, I find that even uncompressed files or CD's in the dance music genre as a whole are not produced to my liking (likely because they're mastered for venues that are not reflective of my home or equipment.)



then all you need it the interface... which can be had as cheaply (or expensive) as one desires, based generally upon user requirements...

While I'm not "there" yet because of the overall lack of suitable media, it might be time to start preparing for the future. :p Do you have a set up like this?

Best,
- Mike

MikeBrewster77
03-30-2009, 11:49 AM
Yup - but then again I actually buy music, unlike your friend's students who likely borrow, steal, stream, and/or pirate what they listen to. Hell, if I shoplifted the album, trust me, I wouldn't be complaining about the lack of liner notes. ;)

Your anecdote is a pretty telling commentary on what the future of the music industry looks like, though...

Best,
- Mike


A friend was teaching a design course at Carnegie Mellon last year and he asked his students how many had actually purchased music in any form during the previous year... they all looked at him as though he was nuts. None of them had.

...and you're worried about liner notes?


Widget

hjames
03-30-2009, 11:56 AM
probably a topic for another thread; but...

how redundant is your storage system?

i've had a few friends recently whose drives have 'bitten the dust'
luckily for them, their e-retailer of choice (beatport) will restore the
catalogue you've already purchased, free of charge...

had this not been the case, i could have seen them really really upset...
The case on the right is redundant redundant.
Its powered down when I'm not doing manual backups.
Its got a pair of 500 GB Seagates - music is stored in FLAC mode there -
Once a month I power it up and dupe my current iTunes library into one of the drives in there

For daily listening I keep a 320 kbps mp3s "rips" on a Seagate 600GB in the center case -
its got roughly 26,000 "songs".
(I still have the CDs for most of that for critical listening ... ).

The left case has a 750GB Seagate barracuda SATA drive - its only used for backup purposes -
it keep hourly incremental backups of my system via mac's TimeMachine utility.
I'll be adding the new 1000GB SATA drive in that case next weekend.

The brains is a new Intel mac mini (just sold my old G4 tower)

Got an AppleTV downstairs with the 4341s - so I can call up any song or playlist remotely (802.11n wireless in the house) from there.

Again, for dedicated, attentive listening I usually play the CD directly downstairs - but its great to have all of this available as a housewide "jukebox/home radio system.

Oh - and to bring this back to "GREEN" - the macmini is a very low current computer system, its basically a notebook with a little wallwart, the 20 inch widescreen flat panel monitor (a DELL, because Apple charge way to much for the same Samsung display in an Apple Monitor cabinet) - and the Airport wireless router in the windowsill is also a wallwart driven device.

we won't talk about the Realistic SA-10 Amp and Minimus speakers on the shelf -
but - they sound way better than the usual ALTEC computer speakers!
(and the price was right - free)

mikebake
03-30-2009, 12:36 PM
Very cool. Looks like a good way to go.